Re: [Geoserver-devel] Use OSGEO weblate as translation tool - Development consequences

[Jody Garnett]

So if we make the minimum Java 11 for the next release cycle we could use
UTF9 for the property files; that sounds like a good idea.
--
Jody Garnett


On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 at 09:48, Rahkonen Jukka <
jukka.rahko...@maanmittauslaitos.fi> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> As a reminder the start of the mailing list thread when we discussed about
> starting to translate with Transifex:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg35112.html.
> Title was “Translation workflow improvement” but all mails do not appear in
> one thread so best to use also the sort by date view. Before that thread
> there was another one “Geoserver 2.20.0, Encoding German Umlaut-Problems”.
> Conclusion from that tile
>
>- The way to use ISO-8859-1 with U-codes is reliable for Java 8 and
>above, but it is best to U-encode also some characters which belong to
>ISO-8859-1 like “ä” and “ö” to avoid problems with some Java programs.
>Weblate seems to do just that.
>- UTF-8 is reliable but works only with Java 11 and above without
>using some tricks.
>
>
>
> For anybody who needs to read or edit the properties file with a pure text
> editor the U-coded strings are painful and error prone. Compare
> “\u00e4\u00e4r\u00e4” vs. “määrä”. Somehow it would feel ideal to change
> into pure UTF-8 when the support for Java 8 is dropped, but a well working
> and open-for-all translation tool and automatic workflows are of course
> very valuable.
>
>
>
> -Jukka Rahkonen-
>
>
>
>
>
> *Lähettäjä:* Jody Garnett 
> *Lähetetty:* maanantai 15. elokuuta 2022 17.10
> *Vastaanottaja:* Alexandre Gacon 
> *Kopio:* GeoServer 
> *Aihe:* Re: [Geoserver-devel] Use OSGEO weblate as translation tool -
> Development consequences
>
>
>
> If you wish to choose weblate I am sure we can work with what it does
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 12:12 AM Alexandre Gacon <
> alexandre.ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Jody,
>
>
>
> I had a look at the git history for the UTF8 file: the file was created by
> you by renaming the CN ISO file (
> https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOS-10282
> ).
> If I understand the JIRA issue correctly, this was related to the encoding
> issue in the translation files (the same old story) and the idea was
> perhaps to migrate all the translations to UTF-8 encoding.
>
>
>
> Weblate UI manages to display the characters in all options:
>
> - ISO-8859 characters in ISO-8859 encoded file
>
> - U encoded characters (\u00e9 for example) in ISO-8859 encoded file
>
> - UTF-8 file
>
>
>
> Weblate can read and write either ISO-8859 files or UTF-8 files but inside
> for a given component you can have only one of the two options. For
> ISO-8859 files, weblate can read either ISO-8859 characters (é) and U
> encoded characters (\u00e9) but when you change a translation, it will
> always be written in U encoded characters.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Alexandre
>
>
>
> Le ven. 12 août 2022 à 21:46, Jody Garnett  a
> écrit :
>
> You may have to search back in the geoserver-devel history or bug tracker
> for details. I assume we were provided utf8 translations and wished to
> preserve them?
>
>
>
> When using the UI in weblate can folks see the native characters
> regardless of encoding used?
>
>
>
> What I remember is that we needed UTF8 to support some chinese characters;
> but the java properties file format is ISO-8859-1 (like the actual format
> on disk).
>
> Wicket had some naming convention where you could append utf8 to the
> filename - but no other tools understand this.
>
>
>
> If I understand you correctly:
>
> - Weblate wants to work with UTF8 if it can?
>
> - Java properties file want ISO-8859-1
>
>
>
> Is there any way to hint to weblate what encoding to use? Looks like yes
> https://docs.weblate.org/no/latest/formats.html#java-properties
> 
>
> I cannot tell from that page if you can choose the encoding of individual
> property files (ie do this manually)?
>
>
>
> Following links weblate uses
> http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/formats/properties.html
> 

[Geoserver-devel] GeoServer/GeoTools PMC Meeting at 18:30 CET / 9:30 PST tomorrow

[Torben Barsballe]

Reminder that the next PMC meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, August 16, at
18:30

 CET.

Cheers,
Torben
___
Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

Re: [Geoserver-devel] Use OSGEO weblate as translation tool - Development consequences

[Rahkonen Jukka]

Hi,

As a reminder the start of the mailing list thread when we discussed about 
starting to translate with Transifex: 
https://www.mail-archive.com/geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg35112.html.
 Title was "Translation workflow improvement" but all mails do not appear in 
one thread so best to use also the sort by date view. Before that thread there 
was another one "Geoserver 2.20.0, Encoding German Umlaut-Problems". Conclusion 
from that tile

  *   The way to use ISO-8859-1 with U-codes is reliable for Java 8 and above, 
but it is best to U-encode also some characters which belong to ISO-8859-1 like 
"ä" and "ö" to avoid problems with some Java programs. Weblate seems to do just 
that.
  *   UTF-8 is reliable but works only with Java 11 and above without using 
some tricks.


For anybody who needs to read or edit the properties file with a pure text 
editor the U-coded strings are painful and error prone. Compare 
"\u00e4\u00e4r\u00e4" vs. "määrä". Somehow it would feel ideal to change into 
pure UTF-8 when the support for Java 8 is dropped, but a well working and 
open-for-all translation tool and automatic workflows are of course very 
valuable.

-Jukka Rahkonen-


Lähettäjä: Jody Garnett 
Lähetetty: maanantai 15. elokuuta 2022 17.10
Vastaanottaja: Alexandre Gacon 
Kopio: GeoServer 
Aihe: Re: [Geoserver-devel] Use OSGEO weblate as translation tool - Development 
consequences

If you wish to choose weblate I am sure we can work with what it does

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 12:12 AM Alexandre Gacon 
mailto:alexandre.ga...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Jody,

I had a look at the git history for the UTF8 file: the file was created by you 
by renaming the CN ISO file 
(https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOS-10282).
 If I understand the JIRA issue correctly, this was related to the encoding 
issue in the translation files (the same old story) and the idea was perhaps to 
migrate all the translations to UTF-8 encoding.

Weblate UI manages to display the characters in all options:
- ISO-8859 characters in ISO-8859 encoded file
- U encoded characters (\u00e9 for example) in ISO-8859 encoded file
- UTF-8 file

Weblate can read and write either ISO-8859 files or UTF-8 files but inside for 
a given component you can have only one of the two options. For ISO-8859 files, 
weblate can read either ISO-8859 characters (é) and U encoded characters 
(\u00e9) but when you change a translation, it will always be written in U 
encoded characters.

Regards
Alexandre

Le ven. 12 août 2022 à 21:46, Jody Garnett 
mailto:jody.garn...@gmail.com>> a écrit :
You may have to search back in the geoserver-devel history or bug tracker for 
details. I assume we were provided utf8 translations and wished to preserve 
them?

When using the UI in weblate can folks see the native characters regardless of 
encoding used?

What I remember is that we needed UTF8 to support some chinese characters; but 
the java properties file format is ISO-8859-1 (like the actual format on disk).
Wicket had some naming convention where you could append utf8 to the filename - 
but no other tools understand this.

If I understand you correctly:
- Weblate wants to work with UTF8 if it can?
- Java properties file want ISO-8859-1

Is there any way to hint to weblate what encoding to use? Looks like yes 
https://docs.weblate.org/no/latest/formats.html#java-properties
I cannot tell from that page if you can choose the encoding of individual 
property files (ie do this manually)?

Following links weblate uses 
http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/formats/properties.html

Which 

Re: [Geoserver-devel] Use OSGEO weblate as translation tool - Development consequences

[Jody Garnett]

If you wish to choose weblate I am sure we can work with what it does

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 12:12 AM Alexandre Gacon 
wrote:

> Hi Jody,
>
> I had a look at the git history for the UTF8 file: the file was created by
> you by renaming the CN ISO file (
> https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOS-10282). If I understand the
> JIRA issue correctly, this was related to the encoding issue in the
> translation files (the same old story) and the idea was perhaps to migrate
> all the translations to UTF-8 encoding.
>
> Weblate UI manages to display the characters in all options:
> - ISO-8859 characters in ISO-8859 encoded file
> - U encoded characters (\u00e9 for example) in ISO-8859 encoded file
> - UTF-8 file
>
> Weblate can read and write either ISO-8859 files or UTF-8 files but inside
> for a given component you can have only one of the two options. For
> ISO-8859 files, weblate can read either ISO-8859 characters (é) and U
> encoded characters (\u00e9) but when you change a translation, it will
> always be written in U encoded characters.
>
> Regards
> Alexandre
>
> Le ven. 12 août 2022 à 21:46, Jody Garnett  a
> écrit :
>
>> You may have to search back in the geoserver-devel history or bug tracker
>> for details. I assume we were provided utf8 translations and wished to
>> preserve them?
>>
>> When using the UI in weblate can folks see the native characters
>> regardless of encoding used?
>>
>> What I remember is that we needed UTF8 to support some
>> chinese characters; but the java properties file format is ISO-8859-1 (like
>> the actual format on disk).
>> Wicket had some naming convention where you could append utf8 to the
>> filename - but no other tools understand this.
>>
>> If I understand you correctly:
>> - Weblate wants to work with UTF8 if it can?
>> - Java properties file want ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Is there any way to hint to weblate what encoding to use? Looks like yes
>> https://docs.weblate.org/no/latest/formats.html#java-properties
>> I cannot tell from that page if you can choose the encoding of individual
>> property files (ie do this manually)?
>>
>> Following links weblate uses
>> http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/formats/properties.html
>>
>> Which uses:
>> -
>> http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/commands/prop2po.html
>>
>> Reading through those docs there is an option "--personality=mozilla"
>> which would preserve UTF8 characters rather than force them into Latin1
>> encoding.
>> --
>> Jody
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 12 Aug 2022 at 04:25, Alexandre Gacon 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I try to keep only the UTF-8 file as the source for Chinese, along with
>>> the other languages in ISO-8859-1: the display of the file content in
>>> weblate is totally broken. I have to define another fake component
>>> configured to support UTF-8 encoding to be able to manage it correctly.
>>>
>>> What is the reason to keep the two encoding?
>>>
>>> Alexandre
>>>
>>> Le ven. 12 août 2022 à 08:26, Alexandre Gacon 
>>> a écrit :
>>>
 Hi Jody,

 You are guessing well: it is all about the Chinese language : for
 weblate it is the same language defined twice so it cannot cope with it.

 I have to check how weblate can work with having one of the languages
 in UTF-8 whereas the other ones are in ISO-8859-1 : I fear that it will
 mean to have two components side by side.

  For your last point, it seems to work well for ages: Romanian is
 mixing both characters encoding whereas Japanese and Korean are totally
 with unicode characters inside a ISO-8859-1 encoded file.

 Alexandre

 Le jeu. 11 août 2022 à 20:36, Jody Garnett  a
 écrit :

> Weblate is a good idea; we held back perviously because of lack of
> hosting. However if OSGeo is able to host :)
>
> I do not understand about two items for the same language: can you
> provide links in the github repo? Do you mean two properties files; or two
> entries in the same property file. Or two entries in different property
> files?
>
> I am guessing you mean two property files for the chinese language;
> where we followed some wicket convention for having property files in
> different encodings. I think we should just use the utf8 encoding? Which 
> is
> not a java standard but wicket supports it.
>
> -
> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/blob/main/src/web/wms/src/main/resources/GeoServerApplication.properties
> -
> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/blob/main/src/web/wms/src/main/resources/GeoServerApplication_zh.properties
> -
> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/blob/main/src/web/wms/src/main/resources/GeoServerApplication_zh_CN.utf8.properties
>
> My understanding is we should keep the utf8 properties if weblate is
> willing to understand utf8 encoding??
>
> About replacing text with unicode; not sure how that works with java
> prop

Re: [Geoserver-devel] Use OSGEO weblate as translation tool - Development consequences

[Alexandre Gacon]

Hi Jody,

I had a look at the git history for the UTF8 file: the file was created by
you by renaming the CN ISO file (
https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOS-10282). If I understand the
JIRA issue correctly, this was related to the encoding issue in the
translation files (the same old story) and the idea was perhaps to migrate
all the translations to UTF-8 encoding.

Weblate UI manages to display the characters in all options:
- ISO-8859 characters in ISO-8859 encoded file
- U encoded characters (\u00e9 for example) in ISO-8859 encoded file
- UTF-8 file

Weblate can read and write either ISO-8859 files or UTF-8 files but inside
for a given component you can have only one of the two options. For
ISO-8859 files, weblate can read either ISO-8859 characters (é) and U
encoded characters (\u00e9) but when you change a translation, it will
always be written in U encoded characters.

Regards
Alexandre

Le ven. 12 août 2022 à 21:46, Jody Garnett  a
écrit :

> You may have to search back in the geoserver-devel history or bug tracker
> for details. I assume we were provided utf8 translations and wished to
> preserve them?
>
> When using the UI in weblate can folks see the native characters
> regardless of encoding used?
>
> What I remember is that we needed UTF8 to support some chinese characters;
> but the java properties file format is ISO-8859-1 (like the actual format
> on disk).
> Wicket had some naming convention where you could append utf8 to the
> filename - but no other tools understand this.
>
> If I understand you correctly:
> - Weblate wants to work with UTF8 if it can?
> - Java properties file want ISO-8859-1
>
> Is there any way to hint to weblate what encoding to use? Looks like yes
> https://docs.weblate.org/no/latest/formats.html#java-properties
> I cannot tell from that page if you can choose the encoding of individual
> property files (ie do this manually)?
>
> Following links weblate uses
> http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/formats/properties.html
>
> Which uses:
> -
> http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/commands/prop2po.html
>
> Reading through those docs there is an option "--personality=mozilla"
> which would preserve UTF8 characters rather than force them into Latin1
> encoding.
> --
> Jody
>
>
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2022 at 04:25, Alexandre Gacon 
> wrote:
>
>> I try to keep only the UTF-8 file as the source for Chinese, along with
>> the other languages in ISO-8859-1: the display of the file content in
>> weblate is totally broken. I have to define another fake component
>> configured to support UTF-8 encoding to be able to manage it correctly.
>>
>> What is the reason to keep the two encoding?
>>
>> Alexandre
>>
>> Le ven. 12 août 2022 à 08:26, Alexandre Gacon 
>> a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi Jody,
>>>
>>> You are guessing well: it is all about the Chinese language : for
>>> weblate it is the same language defined twice so it cannot cope with it.
>>>
>>> I have to check how weblate can work with having one of the languages in
>>> UTF-8 whereas the other ones are in ISO-8859-1 : I fear that it will mean
>>> to have two components side by side.
>>>
>>>  For your last point, it seems to work well for ages: Romanian is mixing
>>> both characters encoding whereas Japanese and Korean are totally with
>>> unicode characters inside a ISO-8859-1 encoded file.
>>>
>>> Alexandre
>>>
>>> Le jeu. 11 août 2022 à 20:36, Jody Garnett  a
>>> écrit :
>>>
 Weblate is a good idea; we held back perviously because of lack of
 hosting. However if OSGeo is able to host :)

 I do not understand about two items for the same language: can you
 provide links in the github repo? Do you mean two properties files; or two
 entries in the same property file. Or two entries in different property
 files?

 I am guessing you mean two property files for the chinese language;
 where we followed some wicket convention for having property files in
 different encodings. I think we should just use the utf8 encoding? Which is
 not a java standard but wicket supports it.

 -
 https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/blob/main/src/web/wms/src/main/resources/GeoServerApplication.properties
 -
 https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/blob/main/src/web/wms/src/main/resources/GeoServerApplication_zh.properties
 -
 https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/blob/main/src/web/wms/src/main/resources/GeoServerApplication_zh_CN.utf8.properties

 My understanding is we should keep the utf8 properties if weblate is
 willing to understand utf8 encoding??

 About replacing text with unicode; not sure how that works with java
 properties being specified in a in ISO-8859-1 as part of the java api.
 --
 Jody Garnett


 On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 at 23:11, Alexandre Gacon <
 alexandre.ga...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am studying if we could migrate the translation