Re: Iplayer login

[James Scholes]

Chris Dunne wrote:

Does it still use the same fundamental format as iPlayer (and just a
marketing rebrand)


Pretty much, yes.

Regards,

James Scholes
https://twitter.com/JamesScholes

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Re: Iplayer login

[Chris Dunne]

(hopefully in plain format now).

> I was wondering what format BBC Sounds uses when I first heard about it.(it
> seems to be pushed a lot on both 6 Music and Radio 2).
>
> Does it still use the same fundamental format as iPlayer (and just a
> marketing rebrand) or have they changed it?
>
> Chris
>
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 20:32 James Scholes 
>> A login has been required for months to watch TV programs, and
>> get_iplayer still works fine.  So I doubt it will impact anything in the
>> short term.  Whether it will *ever* have an impact is an impossible
>> question to answer, even for people who work at the BBC.  But in this
>> case it's probable that they're only pushing the login requirement on
>> radio programs to try and increase their conversion rate for the new BBC
>> Sounds service and app.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> James Scholes
>> https://twitter.com/JamesScholes
>>
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>

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Re: Iplayer login

[James Scholes]

A login has been required for months to watch TV programs, and 
get_iplayer still works fine.  So I doubt it will impact anything in the 
short term.  Whether it will *ever* have an impact is an impossible 
question to answer, even for people who work at the BBC.  But in this 
case it's probable that they're only pushing the login requirement on 
radio programs to try and increase their conversion rate for the new BBC 
Sounds service and app.


Regards,

James Scholes
https://twitter.com/JamesScholes

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Iplayer login

[Steve]

Hi guys,

I'm a bit concerned as I'm getting a request to log in to the bbc 
iPlayer radio pages to play audio, will this ever impact on get-iplayer 
and require a login to download?


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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Vangelis forthnet]

On Sat Jan 7 11:07:01 GMT 2017, RS wrote:


My apologies for the long delay in replying to this.


No need to apologise :-)


It seems the ICO had already decided there were clear privacy issues,
and had people working on it. It had written to the BBC
at the end of August and a response was due in October.
As the ICO was already working on it,
there did not seem to be any point in making my own complaint.


Many thanks for the followup; really appreciated!


had already decided there were clear privacy issues


That's good to know, but those privacy issues pale in
comparison to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016
that I referenced in my December post
(http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2016-December/009969.html)
It seems to proactively catch a wrong-doer among, say,
10,000,000 web users in the UK, all those would need
to sacrifice their on-line privacy...
But this is really not the place for such discussions,
so I am stopping it here... :-(

Kind regards 



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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[RS]

From: Vangelis forthnet Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 00:13



On Thu Sep 29 17:19:37 BST 2016, RS wrote:



My concern is privacy.  Did you read Vangelis's comment
about his research into what the information will be used for?
It is very different from what it says on the registration page.
The BBC is required to comply with the Data Protection Principles.



First of all, apologies for resurrecting this stale thread,
which, strictly speaking, isn't actually GiP related;
move on if offended by its OT nature...



. . .


I am waiting for the person I spoke to at the Information Commissioner's 
Office

>to call me back to tell me if anyone is doing work on this.
>If not, I have been told I should in the first instance write to the 
>BBC's

(or probably now OFCOM's) Data Protection Officer and
give him or her 28 days to reply, and then refer it to the ICO.



Hello Richard; has any of the above ever been pursued?


My apologies for the long delay in replying to this.  I kept putting it off 
because I was going to check first of all on the Information Commissioner's 
website,

www.ico.org.uk
and then with the ICO itself, what progress there had been.  I still have 
not done that.


I have a note that the person I spoke to did call me back the following day. 
It seems the ICO had already decided there were clear privacy issues, and 
had people working on it.  It had written to the BBC at the end of August 
and a response was due in October.  As the ICO was already working on it, 
there did not seem to be any point in making my own complaint.






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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Alan Milewczyk]

On 03/10/16 08:54, CJB wrote:
You'd like the Radio Caroline archive site then  > > http://www.azanorak.com/ > > http://www.azanorak.com/pub > > 
http://www.azanorak.com//pub/stations etc, etc. > > Thousands of shows 
from the 1960s etc. to download for free. > > Password 'freeradio' > > 
Chris B.


Yep, sure do. Been a visitor to that site for well over 10 years since 
the days when Jim Nantz ran it! Was also a member of the "Dutch download 
club" for a few years and in recent times an attendee of annual "Radio 
Days" in Amsterdam run by Hans Knot et al! Happy times!:-)



Alan (recipient of Radio Day 2009 Offshore Radio Anorak Award) M.

> > On 03/10/2016, Alan Milewczyk  wrote: >> On 
01/10/16 13:40, David Cantrell wrote: >>> Personally I don't understand 
why anyone would want to listen to >>> *any* local radio, but given that 
some people do, I expect that >>> there exist people who want to listen 
to their local radio >>> station online. >>> >> We're not all the same, 
you know.


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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[CJB]

You'd like the Radio Caroline archive site then

http://www.azanorak.com/

http://www.azanorak.com/pub

http://www.azanorak.com//pub/stations etc, etc.

Thousands of shows from the 1960s etc. to download for free.

Password 'freeradio'

Chris B.

On 03/10/2016, Alan Milewczyk  wrote:
> On 01/10/16 13:40, David Cantrell wrote:
>> Personally I don't understand why anyone would want to listen to *any*
>> local radio, but given that some people do, I expect that there exist
>> people who want to listen to their local radio station online.
>>
> We're not all the same, you know.
>
> I'm into Soul (especially Northern Soul) music, so I'm interested in any
> local radio station that broadcasts "soul". In addition, I was a huge
> fan of the offshore radio scene in the 60s and 70s - a number of
> ex-offshore DJs have shows on local radio (Roger Day, Keith Skues and
> Dave Cash), so I try to catch those as well.
>
> In both cases, I don't give a stuff which local radio stations broadcast
> those programmes, so I use a batch file that hunts out programme titles
> containing the word "Soul" in the first instance and the presenters'
> names in the second.
>
>
> Alan
>
>
>
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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Alan Milewczyk]

On 01/10/16 13:40, David Cantrell wrote:
Personally I don't understand why anyone would want to listen to *any* 
local radio, but given that some people do, I expect that there exist 
people who want to listen to their local radio station online.



We're not all the same, you know.

I'm into Soul (especially Northern Soul) music, so I'm interested in any 
local radio station that broadcasts "soul". In addition, I was a huge 
fan of the offshore radio scene in the 60s and 70s - a number of 
ex-offshore DJs have shows on local radio (Roger Day, Keith Skues and 
Dave Cash), so I try to catch those as well.


In both cases, I don't give a stuff which local radio stations broadcast 
those programmes, so I use a batch file that hunts out programme titles 
containing the word "Soul" in the first instance and the presenters' 
names in the second.



Alan



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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Jim web]

In article <57efb2d5.6000...@cantrell.org.uk>, David Cantrell
 wrote:

> Maintaining and running a a large number of versions of a piece of
> software and everything that surrounds it for long periods of time while
> also upgrading it to provide new features for new users is just not
> practical.

In addition there are a number of quite significant differences here.

'Over air' transmission systems and standards have to be agreed with and
planned via people like the WRC, EBU, OfCom, etc. They are regulated and
defined in various was to make them 'standards' which broadcasters use and
set-makers then adopt.

The net simply has not been like that. In effect, the BBC have been
continuously developing the iplayer because they decided is was a neat
idea. As it clearly *has* become. But it has evolved and is still
developing. The methods here have been developed as people tried to improve
the way things worked. None of the above has applied. And, indeed, only now
has it even come within the license fee. Until now the iplayer is
essentially an experiment that grew and became almost overwhelmingly
successful. To the point that people now take it for granted without having
any awareness of what the BBC has had to do to cope with the rise in use as
well as quality. Sadly, the public treat all engineering like 'magic'.

The BBC get nothing from you buying a 'smart TV' in a shop. if you can use
it to pick up TV 'over the air' and paid your license fee, they then should
provide the 'over air' broadcasts as agreed with others as per above.

My comments were really just prompted by wishing people would have realised
all this ages ago and stopped complaining about the BBC when any
responsibility was elsewhere. The large international set makers know the
above perfectly well.

I also have sympathy with retailers *provided* they warn purchasers of this
problem. The retailers can't deal with it when they sell closed boxes, but,
legally, *they* have any responsibility so far as the retail purchaser is
concerned. Piggy in the middle. As I've said in the past, the law needs
changing to deal with this.

Jim

-- 
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html


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RE: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[d.lake]

Radio 3 is NOT a "classical only" station.  It has a remit of "culture" which 
includes experimental music, spoken word, World music, folk music, etc.

In fact, you could say that "Classical" music would leave us with a rather poor 
diet of not much earlier than Mozart and not much later than Beethoven

I for one am glad that we have "broad"casting on Radio 3 which includes many 
things I have never even heard of before. 

If I want to be spoon-fed like a 5 year old and inundated with adverts for junk 
I don't want to buy, I'll go to Classic FM.

(The same is true on Radio 4 - the times I have turned on and ended up 
deliberately extending my journey home because I found something I previously 
had no knowledge of to be fascinating.   Same is mostly true of BBC 4 as 
well).

Having lived for 4 1/2 years in the cultural wastelands of the US of A, you 
can't even BEGIN to realise how grateful I am for R3/R4, BBC2/4. We really do 
have something very, very special in the Beeb.

David
-Original Message-
From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of 
Peter Corlett
Sent: 01 October 2016 16:09
To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org
Subject: Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

On Sat, Oct 01, 2016 at 03:40:19PM +0100, Tony Quinn wrote:
[...]
> Given how poorly minority genres of music are covered by the 
> meainstram channels (ONE hour of folk music on Radio 2 per week), some 
> local radio stations have essential listening.

You don't say *which* "minority genre", but some of that stuff inexplicably 
ends up on Radios 3 and 4, much to the annoyance of people who were expecting 
classical music, and no music. I still remember the green-ink letters about 
Anderson Country.


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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Owen Smith]

The 405 line shutdown was planned, it wasn't due to maintenance. To judge how 
many people were still watching, they put an X graphic overlay in the corner of 
the screen. They got people complaining that X rated material was being show 
before the watershed. So they changed the overlay to the text "405". It is true 
there were very few complaints about the 405 line shutdown, but it was planned 
and advertised in advance. Nothing to do with a maintenance shutdown.

-- 
Owen Smith 
Cambridge, UK

>> On 1 Oct 2016, at 13:57, David Cantrell  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2016-10-01, 10:58, Peter Corlett wrote:
>>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 12:02:55PM +0100, Jim web wrote:
>>> It is the responsibility of the *vendor* of closed commerial items to ensure
>>> what you buy works as it should. They may 'subcontract' that to the makers,
>>> who in turn may commission someone else to deal with it.
>> 
>>> The BBC try to give info well in advance to makers and those who offer 
>>> 'smart
>>> TV' boxes. Its then their job to handle it. Not the BBC's.
>> 
>> I must disagree.
>> 
>> The BBC has historically maintained broadcasting in standards long after they
>> had become obsolete. BBC2 launched in the new 625 line service in 1964 and 
>> the
>> BBC had internally migrated everything to this new standard by 1969. The BBC
>> maintained a downconverted 405 line service until 1985. It was supposedly 
>> only
>> scrapped because they needed to bring the service down for maintenance for a
>> while, and received no complaints.
> 
> On the other hand they stopped broadcasting analogue TV signals, and some 
> people complained, and those complaints were ignored. Some people received 
> help converting, but that was a DCMS scheme, the BBC was only the 
> administrator of the scheme.
> 
> Maintaining and running a a large number of versions of a piece of software 
> and everything that surrounds it for long periods of time while also 
> upgrading it to provide new features for new users is just not practical.
> 
> -- 
> David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive
> 
> Please stop rolling your Jargon Dice and explain the problem
> you are having to me in plain English, using small words.
> -- John Hardin, in the Monastery
> 
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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Peter Corlett]

On Sat, Oct 01, 2016 at 03:40:19PM +0100, Tony Quinn wrote:
[...]
> Given how poorly minority genres of music are covered by the meainstram
> channels (ONE hour of folk music on Radio 2 per week), some local radio
> stations have essential listening.

You don't say *which* "minority genre", but some of that stuff inexplicably
ends up on Radios 3 and 4, much to the annoyance of people who were expecting
classical music, and no music. I still remember the green-ink letters about
Anderson Country.


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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[RS]

From: Tony Quinn



Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 15:40


Given how poorly minority genres of music are covered by the meainstram 
channels (ONE hour of folk music on Radio 2 per week), some local radio 
stations have essential listening.


The issue was whether it was necessary for the BBC to store your post code 
when you set up an account to use the iPlayer.  If you want folk music from 
a local radio station you are not going to find if by searching on your post 
code.  You go to the iPlayer and then select

Radio Categories Music Folk



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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Tony Quinn]

On 01-Oct-16 1:40 PM, David Cantrell wrote:


Did you not know that iPlayer also lets you listen/watch live? It's 
not just for catch up.


Personally I don't understand why anyone would want to listen to *any* 
local radio, but given that some people do, I expect that there exist 
people who want to listen to their local radio station online. f tye 
local stations are the only source.


Given how poorly minority genres of music are covered by the 
meainstram channels (ONE hour of folk music on Radio 2 per week), some 
local radio stations have essential listening.


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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[David Cantrell]

On 2016-10-01, 10:58, Peter Corlett wrote:

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 12:02:55PM +0100, Jim web wrote:

It is the responsibility of the *vendor* of closed commerial items to ensure
what you buy works as it should. They may 'subcontract' that to the makers,
who in turn may commission someone else to deal with it.



The BBC try to give info well in advance to makers and those who offer 'smart
TV' boxes. Its then their job to handle it. Not the BBC's.


I must disagree.

The BBC has historically maintained broadcasting in standards long after they
had become obsolete. BBC2 launched in the new 625 line service in 1964 and the
BBC had internally migrated everything to this new standard by 1969. The BBC
maintained a downconverted 405 line service until 1985. It was supposedly only
scrapped because they needed to bring the service down for maintenance for a
while, and received no complaints.


On the other hand they stopped broadcasting analogue TV signals, and 
some people complained, and those complaints were ignored. Some people 
received help converting, but that was a DCMS scheme, the BBC was only 
the administrator of the scheme.


Maintaining and running a a large number of versions of a piece of 
software and everything that surrounds it for long periods of time while 
also upgrading it to provide new features for new users is just not 
practical.


--
David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive

Please stop rolling your Jargon Dice and explain the problem
you are having to me in plain English, using small words.
  -- John Hardin, in the Monastery

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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[David Cantrell]

On 2016-09-29, 17:19, RS wrote:

From: David Cantrell

As far as I am aware there are no regional or local television or
radio stations which serve a single post code.

You're right, but you are also, I think, deliberately missing the point.
Each station serves a long list of postcodes, and you can't use anything
else that people are expected to know, like the name of their home town,
to reliably pick a local radio station.

I find it difficult to understand how anyone would want to catch up from
a radio station whose name he or she did not know.


Did you not know that iPlayer also lets you listen/watch live? It's not 
just for catch up.


Personally I don't understand why anyone would want to listen to *any* 
local radio, but given that some people do, I expect that there exist 
people who want to listen to their local radio station online.


--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

Arbeit macht Alkoholiker

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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Jim web]

In article <20161001095849.ga27...@mooli.org.uk>, Peter Corlett
 wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 12:02:55PM +0100, Jim web wrote:
> > RS  wrote:
> [...]
[snip]
> > It is the responsibility of the *vendor* of closed commerial items to
> > ensure what you buy works as it should. They may 'subcontract' that to
> > the makers, who in turn may commission someone else to deal with it.

> > The BBC try to give info well in advance to makers and those who offer
> > 'smart TV' boxes. Its then their job to handle it. Not the BBC's.

> I must disagree.

[snip]

Sorry, but that's your problem, not mine. And arguing further here is an OT
waste of time for all.

Jim

-- 
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html


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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Peter Corlett]

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 12:02:55PM +0100, Jim web wrote:
> RS  wrote:
[...]
>> At present the BBC's attitude seems to be that if your Smart TV is more than
>> 2 years old that's tough; they can't be bothered to support it.
> I wish people wouldn't keep trotting out this misrepresentation here. It has
> been dealt with in the past.

> It is the responsibility of the *vendor* of closed commerial items to ensure
> what you buy works as it should. They may 'subcontract' that to the makers,
> who in turn may commission someone else to deal with it.

> The BBC try to give info well in advance to makers and those who offer 'smart
> TV' boxes. Its then their job to handle it. Not the BBC's.

I must disagree.

The BBC has historically maintained broadcasting in standards long after they
had become obsolete. BBC2 launched in the new 625 line service in 1964 and the
BBC had internally migrated everything to this new standard by 1969. The BBC
maintained a downconverted 405 line service until 1985. It was supposedly only
scrapped because they needed to bring the service down for maintenance for a
while, and received no complaints.

DAB was invented in 1990 and used the best codec available at the time. Sadly,
it's not very good. Even now, the BBC still maintain that they can't replace
the service with something that doesn't sound like an old longwave receiver in
a fishpond because of all the legacy receivers. (There are better standards:
DRM started broadcasting in 2003 and is only used by the World Service, DAB+
has been around for about ten years but is still only in the trial stage in the
UK.)

But when it comes to "smart" devices, apparently a couple of years notice is
sufficient. The BBC's assumption is perhaps that the functionality is in
software and can be updated, but if so, it's very much mistaken. There are two
reasons, which I'll call "won't" and "can't":

The "won't" is that it's been obvious for many years that manufacturers of
consumer electronics almost never release updated versions of software for
devices. Not only smart TVs, but Android phones, toys, and whatnot. Users also
never get round to applying the updates even if they are available. Even as
somebody who has a good understanding of this stuff, I am still rather wary of
applying firmware updates to devices that are out of warranty and cannot be
returned if the update bricks them.

The "can't" is that while many functions are software-defined, there is still a
hardware component, and the hardware may not be powerful enough to support the
new service. They're not faulty and will work indefinitely while the service is
still being broadcast. It's the decision of the broadcasters to suspend the
service that's the problem.

The BBC needs to provide parallel-running of both the legacy standard and the
shiny new standard for at least the expected lifetime of the receivers, and two
years is nowhere near enough. In the case of 405-line service, it was at least
16 years.


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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Peter S Kirk]

On 29 Sep 2016 at 8:11, CJB CJB  wrote:

> I predict a huge rise in torrenting and seedboxes next year ...

I have access to a 1Gbs VPS which can be used for torrenting were a torrent 
client installed. According to others, it could be used to download movies 
and all manner of things from TPB, YIFY(v2) etc.

Happy to provide a service if some of the monthly costs are donated.

P



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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Vangelis forthnet]

On Thu Sep 29 08:11:31 BST 2016, CJB wrote:


Most youngsters will not have a license per se
relying on their respective parents' household licenses.
And how does this affect their access from various locations
and post codes as they visit friends, relatives, work locations, etc.?
If a license code is tied to a postcode and said youngsters
go travelling even just around the UK with their ubiquitous
smart phones - like they do in their millions - they
could all be committing an offence even unwittingly.


As far as the TV Licence is concerned, I think that scenario
is already covered; visit

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/bbc-iplayer-and-the-tv-licence

and expand

"Am I covered to use BBC iPlayer when I'm on the go or abroad?"

So, as long as the mobile device runs on battery power,
they are still covered. If they wish to charge the battery
by connecting to the mains or not use the battery at all,
then they should not engage in iPlayer usage
(or first establish the premises is
indeed covered by a valid TVL).

But of course when on the go, the postcode tied
to your BBC ID no longer has relevance anyway - and
you'll be appearing behind ever changing IP
addresses. But in their revised privacy terms
the BBC admit they also "use device identifiers
(MAC address?) to identify the location of users",
so in theory they could still track and identify
the (user of the) mobile device...

V. 



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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[RS]

From: David Cantrell



Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 15:57


As far as I am aware there are no regional or local television or radio 
stations

which serve a single post code.



You're right, but you are also, I think, deliberately missing the point.
Each station serves a long list of postcodes, and you can't use anything
else that people are expected to know, like the name of their home town,
to reliably pick a local radio station.


I find it difficult to understand how anyone would want to catch up from a 
radio station whose name he or she did not know.  To listen live on FM he or 
she would need to know the frequency on which it transmitted, having looked 
it up by station name. If there is a demand for identifying local radio 
stations and regional television channels by post code, by all means let 
users opt into it.  Anyone who doesn't want it should be allowed to opt out, 
or rather be opted out by default.


My concern is privacy.  Did you read Vangelis's comment about his research 
into what the information will be used for?  It is very different from what 
it says on the registration page.  The BBC is required to comply with the 
Data Protection Principles.  I am waiting for the person I spoke to at the 
Information Commissioner's Office to call me back to tell me if anyone is 
doing work on this.  If not I have been told I should in the first instance 
write to the BBC's (or probably now OFCOM's) Data Protection Officer and 
give him or her 28 days to reply, and then refer it to the ICO.






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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[RS]

From: Jim web



Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 15:05



FWIW I always have recommended that people buy a TV with an HDMI input
and then feed that from a computer. This frees you from relying on the
firmware, etc, installed by the TV makers. The media players I've seen on
TVs are lousy compared with what you can install for yourself on a
computer. Far from 'smart'. More like 'shovel something on so we can tick
the box in the list of claimed feature - although I guess there will be
exceptions.


I agree about not relying on firmware installed by TV makers.  I have wasted 
countless hours trying to transcode files to a format a TV or DVD player 
will play from its USB port.


My satellite receiver does a good job.  It takes in .mp4, .mkv and its 
native .mts from its USB port and plays them to HDMI for the TV and SPDIF 
for the surround sound box.  The Raspberry Pi is an option if you don't want 
to tie up a laptop.  With my last television I used the S-video output from 
a laptop.







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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[David Cantrell]

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 03:22:57PM +0100, RS wrote:
> >From: David Cantrell
> >Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 14:07
> >>Asking for location makes no sense to me.
> >Ah, right, so just because it isn't helpful for your particular unusual
> >case they shouldn't do it.
> It makes no sense for the purposes set out on the registration page because 
> the iPlayer  already has a much more useful facility to allow the user to 
> select which regional or local programmes are to be presented regardless of 
> location.  In addition it makes a fairly good guess at location.  As far as 

This isn't an iPlayer login though, it's used in lots of other bits of
the BBC's online stuff. It makes sense for the iPlayer people to re-use
what already exists.

And I can't see where it makes a guess at location at all. All I can get
out of it is a list of stations. For those who are into crappy radio I
expect it would be useful for it to at least be able to pick a sensible
default while also letting them pick something else if they wish.
Bearing in mind that most people don't want to listen to Radio Cumbria
one day then Radio Kent the next.

> I am aware there are no regional or local television or radio stations 
> which serve a single post code. 

You're right, but you are also, I think, deliberately missing the point.
Each station serves a long list of postcodes, and you can't use anything
else that people are expected to know, like the name of their home town,
to reliably pick a local radio station.

-- 
David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive

The word "urgent" is the moral of the story "The boy who cried wolf". As
a general rule I don't believe it until a manager comes to me almost in
tears. I like to catch them in a cup and drink them later.
   -- Matt Holiab, in the Monastery

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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Jim web]

In article <20160929130822.gb21...@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk>, David
Cantrell  wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 12:05:01AM +0100, Peter S Kirk wrote:

> > "I fetch items with gip. Play them with VLC. Update things as and when
> > I decide."

> And then there are normal people who aren't geeks. They're who smart TVs
> exist for.

Quite so. 

 Doesn't mean we have to keep alternatives a secret, though. People can't
make a free choice if the alternatives are ones they have no idea exist. 

Having worked in the 'ed biz' for years I tend to think it a good idea to
try and provide people with information, and to indicate what can be done.
But in the end, its their choice of how to make use of it. Here, at least
knowing that alternatives exist that *don't* limit them like the 'smart TV'
may aid them in being more sceptical of future sales blurbs about such
devices and the real meaning of 'smart'. And they can know to look to the
vendor/maker when something isn't as 'smart' as it could be.

Still OT here, though. :-)

Jim

-- 
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html


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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[RS]

From: David Cantrell
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 14:07



Asking for location makes no sense to me.



Ah, right, so just because it isn't helpful for your particular unusual
case they shouldn't do it.


It makes no sense for the purposes set out on the registration page because 
the iPlayer  already has a much more useful facility to allow the user to 
select which regional or local programmes are to be presented regardless of 
location.  In addition it makes a fairly good guess at location.  As far as 
I am aware there are no regional or local television or radio stations which 
serve a single post code. 




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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[David Cantrell]

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 12:05:01AM +0100, Peter S Kirk wrote:

> "I fetch items with gip. Play them with VLC. Update things as and when I
> decide."

And then there are normal people who aren't geeks. They're who smart
TVs exist for.

-- 
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

The Law of Daves: in any gathering of technical people, the
number of Daves will be greater than the number of women.

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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[David Cantrell]

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 04:36:19PM -0500, artisticforge . wrote:

> I listen to BBC Radio off the internet.
> As to which stations it depends on the day of the week and the time of day.
> Sunday is Radio Cumbria, Radio Kent, Radio Lincolnshire, Radio Stoke and
> Radio Wales.
> 
> Asking for location makes no sense to me.

Ah, right, so just because it isn't helpful for your particular unusual
case they shouldn't do it.

By the same argument they should close down all of those radio stations
because of the unusual case of someone who is completely deaf.

-- 
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

Computer Science is about lofty design goals and careful algorithmic
optimisation.  Sysadminning is about cleaning up the resulting mess.

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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[CJB]

I assume that this also includes access to BBC 3 - mainly watched by
the youth (or pretend to be youth) generation whom I understand mainly
use smart phones?

So how will a login tied to a BBC license code tied to a fixed post
code location actually work?

Most youngsters will not have a license per se relying on their
respective parents' household licenses. And how does this affect their
access from various locations and post codes as they visit friends,
relatives, work locations, etc.? If a license code is tied to a post
code and said youngsters go travelling even just around the UK with
their ubiquitous smart phones - like they do in their millions - they
could all be committing an offence even unwittingly.

This mandatory login requirement might be OK for fixed location t.v.s
but what about smart phones and such as laptops / notebooks which by
definition are far from fixed in location?

I predict a huge rise in torrenting and seedboxes next year ...

CJB.

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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Vangelis forthnet]

On Wed Sep 28 14:44:19 BST 2016, RS wrote:


The reasons given for collecting the information seem pretty flimsy.
(snip)
Do I want my use recorded against
my email address and postcode?


... That is exactly the whole point there, Richard!
Tracking/monitoring an individual logged-in iPlayer user
(who appears behind an identified and recorded
pool of IP adresses) associated with a valid
UK e-mail address and a valid UK postcode...
One may argue that the postcode is not your full
home address, but still...

On the 20th of this month, the BBC revised
their privacy policy; the following page is quite terse:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/account/why-do-i-have-to-provide-personal-info-when-i-register/

but the more detailed ones

https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/who-else-can-see-how-i-use-the-bbc/


We're required to share it for legal or regulatory purposes.


and

https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/privacy-policy/

are quite eye opening:


4. How will the BBC use the information it collects about me?
The BBC will use your personal information for a number of purposes 
including the following:

to ensure the TV Licensing database is accurate and kept up to date
8. Will the BBC share my personal information with anyone else?
We may share your personal information internally
(i.e. with other BBC divisions) for example,
to check your details against the TV Licensing
database. Please see section 4 above for more details.
19. Other BBC Operations e.g. TV Licensing
Go to the TV Licensing Privacy Policy
to see how the BBC uses your personal information
for TV Licensing purposes


Remember, this is not happening come next year,
it is valid as of 20/09/2016...So, one of the reasons
(if not the main one) the BBC forces you to register
is for them to check TV licence abidance; you can
treat this forced login as a digital analog (see
the antithesis here?) of the TV detector vans...
Of course this is not advertised as such, they claim:
"Everything we do has to benefit you, our audience."

Also, the compulsory login is another more effective
way to thwart even further the illicit overseas access,
a process that began one and a half years ago,
after the data emerged online that tens of millions
of Chinese VPN users enjoyed iPlayer TV programmes;
the BBC lost face to their rights holders, so
something had to be done...
At first all streams were moved to secure
and fully geo-blocked CDNs, in a second stage
a crack down started on most geo-location evasion
methods (which is a taboo subject here)...
In their revised policy, they indicate that:


to use IP addresses and device identifiers
to identify the location of users, to block disruptive use,
to establish the number of visits from
different countries and to determine whether
you are accessing the services from the UK or not.
If not, you may be re-directed to the international
version of the BBC website (bbc.com)


So if one is registered in the group of overseas users
(as it would be hard - though not competely impossible -
to register a fake UK account), I presume one
will be denied access to UK-only content even
if a geo-location evasion method is used...

Now, don't get me wrong; a law has been passed
by the UK government and put in effect since Sep 1st,
so it must be adhered to. The chain of events that
lead us here is
1. The BBC funds were significantly cut by the government.
2. The TV licence being the major revenue for the BBC,
the so called "loophole" had to be closed.
3. Hence the new law was passed and enforced.
4. The BBC initially relied on users' honesty for
online content, but as they admitted themselves:
"The government has asked us to review
whether a verification system for accessing the iPlayer
will be required in the future."
5. The "login" requirement was announced on 27/09/2016
and will be enforced at the start of 2017.

So, in essence, this latest development
has little to do, IMO, with bettering
the iPlayer services; the BBC could always
do that without forcing upon us a login;
those (few?) wishing for tailored content
could always use the existing optional BBC ID
feature...

As for the future of GiP, it all depends on
whether the resources accessed by it
are also affected by the announced change.
If all it takes is a username & password,
it'd be easy codewise to accommodate
(and perhaps store them in a cookie or .rc file).
GiP already stores BBC cookies in

%USERPROFILE%\.get_iplayer\cookies.get_iplayer
(on Windows...)

Regards 



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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Peter S Kirk]

On 28 Sep 2016 at 15:05, Jim web Jim web  wrote:

> In article <427BC14D94A04F7A88642EAF344B9F15@RJCDESK>, RS
>  wrote:
> > My television does not even call itself a Smart TV, but it does support
> > DLNA.
> 
> FWIW I always have recommended that people buy a TV with an HDMI input
> and then feed that from a computer. This frees you from relying on the
> firmware, etc, installed by the TV makers. The media players I've seen on
> TVs are lousy compared with what you can install for yourself on a
> computer. Far from 'smart'. More like 'shovel something on so we can tick
> the box in the list of claimed feature - although I guess there will be
> exceptions.
> 
> I fetch items with gip. Play them with VLC. Update things as and when I
> decide.
> 
> I don't need to know anything about DLNA either. I just play stuff from HDs
> or NAS as files.
> 
> Jim

"I fetch items with gip. Play them with VLC. Update things as and when I
decide."

+1 Same here


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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[artisticforge .]

hello

I listen to BBC Radio off the internet.
As to which stations it depends on the day of the week and the time of day.
Sunday is Radio Cumbria, Radio Kent, Radio Lincolnshire, Radio Stoke and
Radio Wales.

Asking for location makes no sense to me. it is all to create the
illusion that the BBC is doing something to get people to purchase TV
Licence.

They would not have an issue if they would just figure out how to
allow non-UK residents pay a subscription fee for the BBC content. I
know friends in the USA
who pay an obscene amount per month for 500 channels of rubbish. They would
pay £50.00 per month for the BBC easily. BBC America is NOT the BBC.
it was sold off a while ago.



On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 7:26 AM, David Cantrell  wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 03:47:39AM +0300, Vangelis forthnet wrote:
>
>> ...yeah, right... Localised to a specific postcode!!!
>> County/City would have sufficed for that...
>
> Radio waves are inconsiderate little buggers and don't pay much
> attention to things like placenames.
>
> Quick, which local radio station should I get if I live in Newport?
>
> Which local radio station should I get if I live in Yorkshire?
>
> Which should I get in Thornton Heath, which is in London but my address
> had Surrey in it back in the dark ages when the post office cared about
> such things?
>
> (the correct answer to all of those is, of course, "none of them,
> because all local radio is shit")
>
> --
> David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world
>
> I think the most difficult moment that anyone could face is seeing
> their domestic servants, whether maid or drivers, run away
>   -- Abdul Rahman Al-Sheikh, writing on 25 Jan 2004 at
>  http://www.arabnews.com/node/243486
>
> ___
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-- 
terry l. ridder ><>

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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Jim web]

In article <427BC14D94A04F7A88642EAF344B9F15@RJCDESK>, RS
 wrote:
> My television does not even call itself a Smart TV, but it does support
> DLNA.

FWIW I always have recommended that people buy a TV with an HDMI input
and then feed that from a computer. This frees you from relying on the
firmware, etc, installed by the TV makers. The media players I've seen on
TVs are lousy compared with what you can install for yourself on a
computer. Far from 'smart'. More like 'shovel something on so we can tick
the box in the list of claimed feature - although I guess there will be
exceptions.

I fetch items with gip. Play them with VLC. Update things as and when I
decide.

I don't need to know anything about DLNA either. I just play stuff from HDs
or NAS as files.

Jim

-- 
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html


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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[RS]

From: Vangelis forthnet Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 01:47


Again, I fear this will also apply to Int'l users (in the millions...) 
wishing to access iPlayerRadio offered to them (in low bitrates); in their 
recently revised pages: https://www.bbc.com/register/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/account/help-registering/
you need provide age, valid e-mail address and password; their "register" 
page automatically figures out (via IP check) physical location of 
registeree and auto-completes the Country input field; if !=UK, you need 
not provide a postcode.


Thanks for the second of those links.  It seems to me a huge leap from 
requiring a name, address and credit card number to pay for a television 
licence to gathering the information referred to on this page.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/account/why-do-i-have-to-provide-personal-info-when-i-register/
The reasons given for collecting the information seem pretty flimsy.  Ought 
there to be a capability to opt out?  It would be interesting to find out 
whether it has been considered by the Information Commissioner.  I am not a 
parent, but are parents happy with what is said on expanding the Age 
heading, or other pages which refer to children?  I thought Facebook did not 
allow accounts to be created by those under 13.  Why should the BBC be any 
different?  Ought parents to be able to see what their young children are 
writing on a message board?


Some information about my use of the iPlayer could be gleaned through the 
use of cookies.  Do I want my use recorded against my email address and 
postcode?







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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[RS]

From: Jim web
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 12:02



At present the BBC's attitude seems to be that if your Smart TV is more
than 2 years old that's tough; they can't be bothered to support it.



I wish people wouldn't keep trotting out this misrepresentation here. It
has been dealt with in the past.



It is the responsibility of the *vendor* of closed commerial items to
ensure what you buy works as it should. They may 'subcontract' that to the
makers, who in turn may commission someone else to deal with it.


My apologies in advance to those who don't want to read off-topic comments. 
Please stop reading now.


My information was out of date, so I owe the BBC an apology.  Last time I 
looked for LG televisions in the BBC's list of supported devices for the 
iPlayer, it only went back to 2014 and there was a note which I took to mean 
it had no intention of going back any further.  I was going to link to that 
page, but I found that not only was my 2012 set now in the list, but the 
list went back to 2010.  My television does not even call itself a Smart TV, 
but it does support DLNA.


David suggested using get_iplayer to set up a proxy.  I don't claim to be 
knowledgeable about networks, so that would require some research.  I am not 
in a hurry to use the iPlayer on my television.  I am happy with I can do 
with get_iplayer and an external USB hard disk.  I suspect like many here, I 
came to get_iplayer because I was fed up with jumping through the BBC's 
hoops to use the iPlayer.  My biggest gripe was the size of the buffer for 
streaming.  I spent a lot of time on the iPlayer forum trying to persuade 
the BBC that a 1 min buffer was inadequate for real-life broadband 
connections.  As I was half a mile from the exchange my broadband was better 
than most.  I might just as well have been bashing my head against  a brick 
wall.  When downloads were introduced they could be watched within 30 days 
if downloaded within 7 days.  If I wanted to play them back on another 
computer, as usually did, it was necessary to download a licence on the 
other computer within the 7 days.  I often got caught out by that.  When 
they moved to Adobe Air I just gave up.


I agree with Alan that I prefer to rely on set-top boxes for new technology. 
He singled out 3D as a failed technology.  I waited for the price of 3D sets 
to fall before buying my latest television.  Apart from Titanic, Hugo and 
Avatar there does seem be very little 3D material available domestically. 
That seems strange given that 3D versions are often made for the cinema. 
The 3D synthesiser in my television is pretty good, although I don't use it 
that often.




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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[artisticforge .]

Hello Vangelis

But even your "noise" is so well articulated and thought out. :-)



On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Vangelis forthnet
 wrote:
> On Tue Sep 27 12:18:53 BST 2016, Roger Bell_West wrote:
>>
>> so far use of iPlayer for _radio_ programmes does not require a licence
>
>
> Though not clear in the BBC News article that started this thread, the Daily
> Mail one (linked to by CJB) states:
>>>
>>>  From early next year, anyone accessing TV and radio content via the
>>> streaming service will have to register their names, email addresses, and
>>> postcodes.
>
>
> So it would appear the obligatory login (via BBC ID) will also apply to
> iPlayerRadio users, despite, as you correctly said, no TV licence is
> (currently) required for that...
>>
>> or residency in the UK.
>
>
> Again, I fear this will also apply to Int'l users (in the millions...)
> wishing to access iPlayerRadio offered to them (in low bitrates); in their
> recently revised pages: https://www.bbc.com/register/
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/account/help-registering/
> you need provide age, valid e-mail address and password; their "register"
> page automatically figures out (via IP check) physical location of
> registeree and auto-completes the Country input field; if !=UK, you need not
> provide a postcode.
>
>>> From Tuesday, BBC ID holders also have to add a postcode to their
>>> account. TV Licensing has access to the information but the BBC says it has
>>> no current plans to use it for enforcement purposes. The corporation says
>>> the changes are part of an attempt to make its services more personal and
>>> localised
>
>
> ...yeah, right... Localised to a specific postcode!!! County/City would have
> sufficed for that...
>
> This compulsory login, come next year, is but a prelude to the next stage
> where valid TV licence credentials will also be required in the login, at
> least for TV content (a speculation on my part...).
> Just have a look over at the major TV-On-Demand sites in the US; they all
> require you "Select your TV provider, sign in and watch."
> When the real underlying issue is loss of revenue, tightening the control
> over those who access iPlayer comes as no surprise;
>>>
>>> The BBC has said "significant numbers of new people" have bought a
>>> licence since the new rules came into effect.
>
> Probably not that "significant" to have resulted in this new tighter access
> scheme...
>
> (I very rarely contribute to OT-ish threads, this is just one of those
> instances... Apologies to those that feel annoyed by the noise...)
>
> Kind regards
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-- 
terry l. ridder ><>

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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Vangelis forthnet]

On Tue Sep 27 12:18:53 BST 2016, Roger Bell_West wrote: 

so far use of iPlayer for _radio_ programmes 
does not require a licence 


Though not clear in the BBC News article 
that started this thread, the Daily Mail one 
(linked to by CJB) states: 

 From early next year, anyone accessing TV and radio content 
via the streaming service will have to 
register their names, email addresses, and postcodes. 


So it would appear the obligatory login (via BBC ID) 
will also apply to iPlayerRadio users, despite, as you 
correctly said, no TV licence is (currently) required for that... 

or residency in the UK. 


Again, I fear this will also apply to Int'l users (in the millions...) 
wishing to access iPlayerRadio offered to them (in low bitrates); 
in their recently revised pages: 
https://www.bbc.com/register/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/account/help-registering/
you need provide age, valid e-mail address and password; 
their "register" page automatically figures out (via IP check) 
physical location of registeree and auto-completes the 
Country input field; if !=UK, you need not provide a postcode.


From Tuesday, BBC ID holders also have to 
add a postcode to their account. 
TV Licensing has access to the information 
but the BBC says it has no current plans 
to use it for enforcement purposes. 
The corporation says the changes are part of an attempt 
to make its services more personal and localised


...yeah, right... Localised to a specific postcode!!! 
County/City would have sufficed for that...


This compulsory login, come next year, is but a prelude 
to the next stage where valid TV licence credentials will 
also be required in the login, at least for TV content 
(a speculation on my part...).
Just have a look over at the major TV-On-Demand 
sites in the US; they all require you 
"Select your TV provider, sign in and watch." 

When the real underlying issue is loss of revenue, 
tightening the control over those who access iPlayer 
comes as no surprise; 
The BBC has said "significant numbers of new people" 
have bought a licence since the new rules came into effect.
Probably not that "significant" to have resulted in this new 
tighter access scheme...


(I very rarely contribute to OT-ish threads, 
this is just one of those instances... 
Apologies to those that feel annoyed by the noise...)


Kind regards 


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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Alan Milewczyk]

On 27/09/16 10:09, RS wrote:

From: Mark Goodge Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 09:25



Of course this change may result in a lot of unhappy "Smart" TV
owners whose iPlayer apps don't get updated any more.


I would imagine that the BBC has a separate system for those, 
possibly based on the API.


At present the BBC's attitude seems to be that if your Smart TV is 
more than 2 years old that's tough; they can't be bothered to support 
it.  Who changes large televisions every two years?



Such is technology, just think of the changes we've had over the years 
with TV - 405, 625, digital etc etc. What's happening is that the speed 
of change is increasing.


The answer has always been not to tie yourself too tightly to a 
technology in a way that limits upgrading. Another good example was the 
introduction of DAB radio and the inability of DAB radios to be upgraded 
to DAB+.


I've felt for a while that it's madness to spend megabucks on a smart-TV 
- it's far easier (and cheaper) to get the best TV you can afford for 
your needs and do the "upgrades" using a "smart" set top box. Obviously 
this isn't as neat a solution for those who have the "music centre" 
approach to it all, but I was always a "separates" guy. My "hi-fi" 
attitude hasn't changed in 40+ years. Ditto for computers - since 1992 
I've built virtually every PC I've used (with the exception of a few 
laptops). I build them with upgradeability in mind, starting off with a 
big enough case and enough expansion slots, adding hard drives and extra 
RAM as necessary. I'm using some PCs that firstly saw the light of day 
well over 5 years ago but have been expanded/modified significantly over 
the years.


The other thing is not to get seduced by the latest "fad of the day". 
The consumer electronics industry needs to sell us hardware to keep the 
wheels of commerce turning, but it shouldn't force us to follow these 
fads blindly. We've had dead ends before, Betamax and 3D to name just 
two! When I joined the computer industry in 1970 we had an expression: 
"pioneers end up with arrows in their backs"!! Still valid after all 
these years.


A

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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[artisticforge .]

hello

There are numerous BBC offerings all over the internet

below is just a small sampling.

iTunes -> Radio -> Alternative Rock -> BBC Radio 6
iTunes -> Radio -> Comedy -> BBC Radio 4
iTunes -> Radio -> Comedy -> BBC Radio 4 extra
iTunes -> Radio -> Classical -> BBC Radio 3
iTunes -> Radio -> Adult Contemporary -> BBC Radio 2

The iOS app, BBC iPlayer Radio,
Android app, BBC iPlayer Radio

THe requirement of a id & password if just smoke & mirrors.
creates the illusion that something is being done.



On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 7:30 AM, CJB  wrote:
> For what its worth ...
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3808926/BBC-iPlayer-viewers-soon-need-password-register-details.html
>
> CJB
>
>
> On 27/09/2016, Jim web  wrote:
>> In article <7AAC9874F8324F5AAC4DEA3E8C7A6DAB@RJCDESK>, RS
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> At present the BBC's attitude seems to be that if your Smart TV is more
>>> than 2 years old that's tough; they can't be bothered to support it.
>>
>> I wish people wouldn't keep trotting out this misrepresentation here. It
>> has been dealt with in the past.
>>
>> It is the responsibility of the *vendor* of closed commerial items to
>> ensure what you buy works as it should. They may 'subcontract' that to the
>> makers, who in turn may commission someone else to deal with it.
>>
>> The BBC try to give info well in advance to makers and those who offer
>> 'smart TV' boxes. Its then their job to handle it. Not the BBC's.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> --
>> Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
>> Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
>> Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
>>
>>
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>>
>
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-- 
terry l. ridder ><>

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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[CJB]

For what its worth ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3808926/BBC-iPlayer-viewers-soon-need-password-register-details.html

CJB


On 27/09/2016, Jim web  wrote:
> In article <7AAC9874F8324F5AAC4DEA3E8C7A6DAB@RJCDESK>, RS
>  wrote:
>
>> At present the BBC's attitude seems to be that if your Smart TV is more
>> than 2 years old that's tough; they can't be bothered to support it.
>
> I wish people wouldn't keep trotting out this misrepresentation here. It
> has been dealt with in the past.
>
> It is the responsibility of the *vendor* of closed commerial items to
> ensure what you buy works as it should. They may 'subcontract' that to the
> makers, who in turn may commission someone else to deal with it.
>
> The BBC try to give info well in advance to makers and those who offer
> 'smart TV' boxes. Its then their job to handle it. Not the BBC's.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
> Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
> Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
>
>
> ___
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> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org
> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
>

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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Jim web]

In article <7AAC9874F8324F5AAC4DEA3E8C7A6DAB@RJCDESK>, RS
 wrote:

> At present the BBC's attitude seems to be that if your Smart TV is more
> than 2 years old that's tough; they can't be bothered to support it. 

I wish people wouldn't keep trotting out this misrepresentation here. It
has been dealt with in the past.

It is the responsibility of the *vendor* of closed commerial items to
ensure what you buy works as it should. They may 'subcontract' that to the
makers, who in turn may commission someone else to deal with it.

The BBC try to give info well in advance to makers and those who offer
'smart TV' boxes. Its then their job to handle it. Not the BBC's.

Jim

-- 
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html


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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Roger Bell_West]

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 12:15:46PM +0100, Graham wrote:
>My guess is that they will ask for name, address and email, possibly
>under penalty of perjury and with email validation during registration.
>No one is going to know, or be willing to look for, their licence
>number!  They will presumably check if there is a licence at the
>address. If not, threatening letters and emails get sent. Why do
>anything more complicated than that?

Because so far use of iPlayer for _radio_ programmes does not require
a licence, or residency in the UK.

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Re: [Get-iPlayer] Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Graham]

On 27/09/16 11:13, CJB wrote:
> This appears to be a requirement for each individual viewer. Yet
> aren't TV Licenses issued for households or families? Certainly a
> password coupled with a License fee registration number would
> required. Which raises the scenario of one License fee no. coupled to
> multiple passwords - one for each member of a family.

My guess is that they will ask for name, address and email, possibly
under penalty of perjury and with email validation during registration.
No one is going to know, or be willing to look for, their licence
number!  They will presumably check if there is a licence at the
address. If not, threatening letters and emails get sent. Why do
anything more complicated than that?

Of course, there will be a lot of fiction about checking IP addresses,
about checking email registrations, etc (just like TV detector vans).
Some people will certainly lie about their address but it is unlikely to
be cost effective to actually follow up any further. Anyone determined
enough to get free iPlayer access can tie them up in lots of costly
lawyer correspondence about VPNs, the difference between the IP address
and the viewing location, the presence of mains power, etc, etc.  I will
be surprised to see any case of iPlayer access without a licence ever
getting to court.



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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[David Woodhouse]

On Tue, 2016-09-27 at 11:13 +0100, CJB wrote:
> Share and share alike I guess. Kind a makes a mockery of the need for
> security.

That's hardly new. Similar observations could be made of fairly much
all the snake oil DRM schemes.

Ultimately, all these schemes have the same goal — to make the rights-
holders *believe* that their precious content can't be "stolen".

If the BBC manage to do that with a crappy password scheme, then let's
not heckle too hard. We *know* it's purely a deception, and that was
always going to be the case.

-- 
dwmw2

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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[CJB]

This appears to be a requirement for each individual viewer. Yet
aren't TV Licenses issued for households or families? Certainly a
password coupled with a License fee registration number would
required. Which raises the scenario of one License fee no. coupled to
multiple passwords - one for each member of a family.

So multiple passwords appear more likely rather than more up-to-date
iris-scans or thumb-prints.

Then what about students in shared accommodation with wifi / broadband?

Share and share alike I guess. Kind a makes a mockery of the need for security.

CJB

On 27/09/2016, Jonathan Larmour  wrote:
> Someone would post this, so it may as well be me:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-37477229
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
> All users of the BBC's iPlayer service will have to log in with a personal
> account from early 2017.
>
> Users of BBC services can already create an online account - known as a BBC
> ID
> - but this is not currently required in order to access iPlayer.
>
> [...]
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> So, anyone in the know about what will be involved? A simple webpage login
> which get_iplayer may be able to just deal with? That's all that the BBC iD
> login page looks like at the moment.
>
> Of course this change may result in a lot of unhappy "Smart" TV owners
> whose
> iPlayer apps don't get updated any more.
>
> Jifl
>
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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[David Woodhouse]

On Tue, 2016-09-27 at 10:09 +0100, RS wrote:
> >From: Mark Goodge Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 09:25
> 
> >> Of course this change may result in a lot of unhappy "Smart" TV
> >> owners whose iPlayer apps don't get updated any more.
> 
> >I would imagine that the BBC has a separate system for those, possibly 
> >based on the API.
> 
> At present the BBC's attitude seems to be that if your Smart TV is more than 
> 2 years old that's tough; they can't be bothered to support it.  Who changes 
> large televisions every two years?

Anyone who wants iPlayer on them to keep working... and who can't
manage setting up something based on get_iplayer to act as a
proxy/relay to keep them working :)

-- 
dwmw2

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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[RS]

From: Mark Goodge Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 09:25



Of course this change may result in a lot of unhappy "Smart" TV
owners whose iPlayer apps don't get updated any more.


I would imagine that the BBC has a separate system for those, possibly 
based on the API.


At present the BBC's attitude seems to be that if your Smart TV is more than 
2 years old that's tough; they can't be bothered to support it.  Who changes 
large televisions every two years?




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Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Mark Goodge]

On 27/09/2016 04:47, Jonathan Larmour wrote:

Someone would post this, so it may as well be me:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-37477229


[snip]


So, anyone in the know about what will be involved? A simple webpage
login which get_iplayer may be able to just deal with? That's all
that the BBC iD login page looks like at the moment.


If it's scriptable, then it should be possible. The existing login is 
cookie based, which is a reasonable simple programming task to deal with.



Of course this change may result in a lot of unhappy "Smart" TV
owners whose iPlayer apps don't get updated any more.


I would imagine that the BBC has a separate system for those, possibly 
based on the API. The adavance warning of the change is at least partly 
to give the operators of those applications time to prepare for it. It 
isn't just smart TVs, of course, Sky HD and Sky Q both have iPlayer 
capability as do the equivalent offerings from Virgin Media and BT TV.


When the change does come in, it will be interesting to run Wireshark on 
a smart TV's wifi connection and see what it is sending to iPlayer.


Mark

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BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017

[Jonathan Larmour]

Someone would post this, so it may as well be me:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-37477229

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
All users of the BBC's iPlayer service will have to log in with a personal
account from early 2017.

Users of BBC services can already create an online account - known as a BBC ID
- but this is not currently required in order to access iPlayer.

[...]

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

So, anyone in the know about what will be involved? A simple webpage login
which get_iplayer may be able to just deal with? That's all that the BBC iD
login page looks like at the moment.

Of course this change may result in a lot of unhappy "Smart" TV owners whose
iPlayer apps don't get updated any more.

Jifl

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