Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp GUI
Hi, "miriam clinton (iriXx)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > - I was using the GIMP supplied by Mandrake 9.2, but I'll download the > latest version. IIRC that would be gimp-1.2 then. You'd have to compare that to PS5. Basically you are ignoring the last four years of GIMP development. Please udpate to GIMP 2.0.5 or even consider to try GIMP 2.1.7, the latest development snapshot. We are close to the 2.2 release, so that would give you the best impression on where we are. Though most of the issues you raised have been addressed with GIMP 2.0 already. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp GUI
Jakub Friedl, adresa do konferenci wrote: Flash is an absolute essential - we have no tools at all at present for Flash is, to my best knowledge, closed proprietary format. So there is only a little hope we can make our own Flash creating application. Hi, I've never looked at any of this stuff personally, but PHP suuports SWF: http://us2.php.net/ming And I also have a libswf on my Debian machine. A quick apt-get search: libming-dev - Library to generate SWF (Flash) Files (development files) libming-util - Library to generate SWF (Flash) Files - Utilities libswf-perl - Ming (SWF) module for Perl php4-ming - Ming (SWF) module for php4 python-ming - Ming (SWF) module for Python python2.2-ming - Ming (SWF) module for Python 2.2 gstreamer-swfdec - SWF (Macromedia Flash) decoder plugin for GStreamer libswfdec-dev - SWF (Macromedia Flash) decoder library libswfdec0 - SWF (Macromedia Flash) decoder library swf-player - SWF (Macromedia Flash) player libflash-dev - GPL Flash (SWF) Library - development files libflash-mozplugin - GPL Flash (SWF) Library - Mozilla-compatible plugin libflash-swfplayer - GPL Flash (SWF) Library - stand-alone player libflash0 - GPL Flash (SWF) Library - shared library libming - Library to generate SWF (Flash) Files libming-fonts-openoffice - Fonts for use with the Ming Library for SWF Creation It appears that openoffice has some SWF support ... rgds, Chris ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp GUI
On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 12:12:46PM -0700, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: > thanks Sven and Carol for your answers... I'll get back to you with more > details about the GUI, as i'm working on an art project at the moment, > but to answer some immediate queries: > > - I'm using Photoshop 7.0 - strangely enough, I find it, and all the > other tools I use, highly intuitive - the essence of a tool that a > graphic designer can use is its intuitiveness, rather than usability. That's you. There are others who find photoshop highly unintuitive, and GIMP much easier to use. Part of the problem is that many designers started out using photoshop, so the "intuitiveness" is not necessarily inherent in the application, but a mental byproduct of cultivating your nascent workflow using a specific app. This doesn't really validate photoshop's interface as "good", but rather "what photoshop trained designers are used to". Merely copying photoshop blindly is a bad idea, since photoshop's interface has got its own weird quirks. Nevermind the interface differences between photoshop on Mac and on Windows. So things really should be taken on a case by case basis. In some cases, photoshop may be better at some things, but in others, completely crack filled. > Perhaps in this case we should use graphic designers as testers, > alongside bug-testers? Do not discount the graphic designers who actually prefer gimp's interface to photoshop's. -Yosh ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp GUI
> The problem is that there are too many screens appearing in random > positions - even if the layer menu is the only one open, it could appear I think that most problems that you are describing are not present in the current version of the Gimp. Mandrake 9.2 includes, if i recall correctly, Gimp 1.2.5. Gimp 2.0 has greatly improved user interface. Try it. > Illustrator is a print design tool, on the level of GIMP. At the moment > Fireworks is a vector design tool. Sodipodi is getting close, or aiming if i recall correctly - and it is only few months since i quit job in a graphic studio, fireworks is more a raster editor than a vector tool. It comes bundled (when you buy whole Macromedia studio: Flash, Fireworks etc..) with Freehand, which is a vector tool. Macromedia has Freehand which is like Adobe's Illustrator which is like Inkscape or Sodipodi in the free world. On the other hand Adobe's Photoshop is similar to Macromedia's Fireworks and free world's Gimp. > Flash is an absolute essential - we have no tools at all at present for Flash is, to my best knowledge, closed proprietary format. So there is only a little hope we can make our own Flash creating application. SVG should be the replacement. But it is not comparable to Flash probably yet. I wonder about sounds and like? Is it possible with SVG? > Personally speaking, I'm just sad that I can't use Free software for my > design work, and would love to be able to migrate entirely to GNU/Linux. I am glad i can use free software for my graphic work. But it is true that i mostly need only raster editor. Jakub Friedl ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp GUI
thanks Sven and Carol for your answers... I'll get back to you with more details about the GUI, as i'm working on an art project at the moment, but to answer some immediate queries: - I'm using Photoshop 7.0 - strangely enough, I find it, and all the other tools I use, highly intuitive - the essence of a tool that a graphic designer can use is its intuitiveness, rather than usability. Perhaps in this case we should use graphic designers as testers, alongside bug-testers? - I was using the GIMP supplied by Mandrake 9.2, but I'll download the latest version. - First thing I'd suggest is stacking the Layers / Brushes etc. screens which at present you have to open from the top left hand menu - Photoshop keeps these permanently in appearance, stacked at the right hand corner, although you can double-click on the top of these mini-screens - A Navigation tool for zooming would be essential - again, somewhere in these mini-screens. - This might become a patent problem - but what i'm really suggesting is to keep all the tool option screens in one place, and let the content and menus of the tool options change within this space, rather than having to open a new Options window when you click on the brush tool, for example. Thats one of the areas where Photoshop / Paint Shop Pro users find GIMP most difficult - the choice of tools is obscured, and you can't keep control of all the tools in one place, you have to keep opening and closing menus. - Its pretty hard to find where the effects are, and to know you have to right-click on the image to produce these. But that in itself is elegant, and avoids patent issues... I think the essential problem with Effects is that its difficult to find out a) where they are located in the menu and b) what the heck do they do?... Also many of the effects are outdated or not as accurate as the Photoshop versions. - One thing i /LOVE/ about the GIMP is that you've now implemented layer effects (Multiply, Color Dodge, Color Burn etc.) - but these really need to be in a permanently open menu. The problem is that there are too many screens appearing in random positions - even if the layer menu is the only one open, it could appear aligned on the right hand side, and then when you select the brush tool, the layer menu stays in place, appearing below the layer menu. A navigator screen should be in place always - this is a feature I find essential, and makes it impossible for me to use the GIMP - while i can zoom in and out, its very difficult to drag the screen around to the place where I want to work. As for Illustrator / Fireworks / Dreamweaver / Flash: (my own 'essential' tools) Illustrator is a print design tool, on the level of GIMP. At the moment we have a few imitations but they are too poor to be used for print preparation - there are a lot of features (which I can describe, but it would require a new and very extensive project) especially the ability to create pictures at 300dpi +. This is vitally important when preparing either a GIMP, vector design or print design tool - screen resolution @ 72dpi will produce fuzzy results and embarrassment on the part of the designer when you take it to the printers! ;) Fireworks is a vector design tool. Sodipodi is getting close, or aiming in the same direction, but really is only in the early stages - I find Fireworks essential for designing either print or web material - particularly web material and it exports to png by default. It also has an optimising screen for jpeg/gif (ewww, but essential). Fireworks allows you to slice the image and export the slices to HTML or simply to images - there are a variety of options, which Photoshop uses also, albeit in a rather obscured way. Photoshop tried to implement vector graphics but nobody could make head or tail of them - the only bonus is that you can export to ImageReady and to Illustrator. Flash is an absolute essential - we have no tools at all at present for animation. Flash uses vector graphics as well as being able to import movies, images in any format, and sound. It also allows for javascript to be applied to objects (objects in this case meaning physical objects on the screen - this taught me a lot about programming 'objects' too). Flash also has its own language - 'ActionScript'- which is based on Javascript. Likewise, Quicktime works in a similiar way although I'd never reccomend it because you have to download and make sense of the SDK. Flash is more intuitive. Flash works on timelines - the closest thing I've seen was that application for music/video mixing which was discontinued due to patent problems, and then re-adopted under a different name by Mandrake - the name slips my mind for the moment. Timelines are how we compose layers, putting an object on each timeline and seamlessly moving it about by using 'motion tweening'. Personally speaking, I'm just sad that I can't use Free software for my design work,
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp GUI
Hi, let me add another note just to make sure you don't get us wrong. Of course we appreciate your offer and I think that you could indeed help us. You could for example try to describe and to compare common workflows in GIMP, Photoshop or other image manipulation programs. Such a comparison is however only useful if it can be understood by someone who doesn't know the software involved. Would you be interested in doing this? Perhaps the GIMP Wiki would be a good place for it? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-docs] Re: [Gimp-developer] Help system
Hi, "Joao S. O. Bueno Calligaris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Ie read a thread some months ago on GIMP developers saying that the > Gimp-ghelp should be designed in such a way that, when a page did not > exist for a locale, it would fall back to other languages in a given > order. > > Was that implemented? > If so..is the fallback to swedish en ? The help system has always been designed that way. The problem was with the way the help pages get generated from the DocBook sources. During that process empty pages were generated instead of no pages. Thus, the language fallback in the help system could not work. AFAIK the problem has been addressed in the meantime (as I already mentioned in an earlier mail). > And Dennis: > No, deleting the swedish docs won't give you the English docs. Huh? Of course it will. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Help system
Hi, Dennis Bjorklund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I run gimp in swedish and the translation is very good. The help files > however are mostly blank pages. I have to quit and start gimp in english > in order to get any help. This has been taken care of in gimp-help-2. Please try a recent CVS checkout. > Of course this problem can be solved by deleting the swedish documentation > and then I assume I would get the english one. But it's not the best > solution. You can also select the help languages in your gimprc file. Please read the gimprc man-page. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Help system
Ie read a thread some months ago on GIMP developers saying that the Gimp-ghelp should be designed in such a way that, when a page did not exist for a locale, it would fall back to other languages in a given order. Was that implemented? If so..is the fallback to swedish en ? And Dennis: No, deleting the swedish docs won't give you the English docs. On Sunday 24 October 2004 09:50, Dennis Bjorklund wrote: > I run gimp in swedish and the translation is very good. The help > files however are mostly blank pages. I have to quit and start gimp > in english in order to get any help. > > Of course this problem can be solved by deleting the swedish > documentation and then I assume I would get the english one. But > it's not the best solution. > > Also, even if there had been a more complete translation, how do I > know if that is a translation of the latest english version? Being > able to select language at run time would be helpful. > > gettext() works well because the translation is only used when the > original text is as it was when it was translated. Maybe one could > make something similar with the doc, like a md5sum of the help > page. If the checksum does not match the one stored with the > translation then the english original help is used (or some other > language that the user prefer, just like it works with gettext). regards, JS ->< ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Help with gimp directory structure
Hi, Jean-Sebastien Senecal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I'm working on an open-source software for real-time mix-medias, > similar to Puredata. We've started using part of the Gimp code for > image processing. For now, I was able to move the composition > functions in paint-funcs. However, since the functions are not > documented, I find it often difficult to know what this or this is > doing. Plus, I don't understand well how the files are organized. You are trying to reuse the part of the GIMP code that we would like to get rid of the sooner the better. The basic image manipulation routines date back to the early days of GIMP development and haven't seen the refactoring that all other parts of the code have gone through. I would not suggest to use this code at all. You should consider to use GEGL instead. But then, GEGL is probably not at the point yet where it would fulfill your needs. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp GUI
Hi, "miriam clinton (iriXx)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > As part of our discussions, I raised the issue of why I find the GIMP > difficult to use as a graphic designer. Although it is quite a > formidable translation of many of the graphics tools, we graphic > designers are visual thinkers and rely heavily on the GUI to produce > our work. Several of my colleagues have tried GIMP but find it > difficult to work with for this reason. For what reason? You better tell us what exactly you find difficult to use. We are constantly working on improving the user interface so of course we are interested in feedback. Telling us that it is difficult to use (and not even telling us what version you have been using when you made that experience), is however not very helpful. > I'm sorry if this message treads on many toes. How could your message thread on any toes? You didn't say anything yet. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Help system
I run gimp in swedish and the translation is very good. The help files however are mostly blank pages. I have to quit and start gimp in english in order to get any help. Of course this problem can be solved by deleting the swedish documentation and then I assume I would get the english one. But it's not the best solution. Also, even if there had been a more complete translation, how do I know if that is a translation of the latest english version? Being able to select language at run time would be helpful. gettext() works well because the translation is only used when the original text is as it was when it was translated. Maybe one could make something similar with the doc, like a md5sum of the help page. If the checksum does not match the one stored with the translation then the english original help is used (or some other language that the user prefer, just like it works with gettext). -- /Dennis Björklund ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
