Re: [Gimp-user] Color Printing
On Wednesday 27 September 2006 18:03, Øyvind Kolås wrote: Color management support is improved in the latest development versions of GIMP, this is not the same as editing in CMYK mode, but it should be the thing more than 90% of the people asking for CMYK needs, even though they think it is not. It is sufficient to do the conversion to CMYK when exporting from GIMP to file/the printer to achieve correct colors if you have a color correction profile for your display as well as your printer. This is a separate issue from being able to work with the image in CMYK mode. Manipulating a photograph in CMYK mode is in most cases mostly pointless since the source of the data is the RGB model and the human visual system operates in RGB as well. The separation needed for CMYK varies between printers whilst sRGB is a standard color space for image exchange. /Øyvind K. Welll perception is everything. It is necessary for Gimp not to be as good as but better than its competition to gain acceptance. As soon as the CMYK lack is mentioned people in my industry are turned off and won't consider the product further. The product of professional print designers today is not separations or an sRGB file but a PDF or tiff file in CMYK model. Prepress, making of separations etc. is a separate process. If conversion is done at the end of the designer's workflow then there is no chance to put back the brightness that is lost. But there is perhaps a way to do it. If a display function can be added to Gimp whereby a double conversion is done, from RGB to CMYK and back again, then the user could view the illo in Gimp with the gamut limited to what it will be in CMYK model, and adjust saturation etc. to bring the photo back up to requirements. Since there is already a function to separate into CMYK colors it could possibly be a recombination of those separations into a single image. In the meantime people like the OP who want to use Gimp instead of Photoshop in their workflow will need to understand its limitations for photos destined for print jobs and develop workarounds. We need to be honest about this up front. -- John Culleton Able Indexing and Typesetting Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost. Satisfaction guaranteed. http://wexfordpress.com ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
RE: [Gimp-user] Color Printing
John, I'm the OP'er...since I'm a network tech and not a graphic designer I want to make sure I understand what I'm getting from these posts before I go back to the designer. When you wrote, ...will need to understand its limitations for photos destined for print jobs and develop workarounds Does that mean that there is no fix? Or is the fix to convert the visible image to cmyk in the Gimp so the designer can adjust colors, etc so the print should match the screen? I've been using the Gimp in a limited capacity for the past 4 years and I love it. I like to promote it as much as possible. Rob Ogle, MCSE Computer Server Solutions, inc http://www.css1.cc -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John R. Culleton Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 8:07 AM To: Øyvind Kolås Cc: gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Color Printing On Wednesday 27 September 2006 18:03, Øyvind Kolås wrote: Color management support is improved in the latest development versions of GIMP, this is not the same as editing in CMYK mode, but it should be the thing more than 90% of the people asking for CMYK needs, even though they think it is not. It is sufficient to do the conversion to CMYK when exporting from GIMP to file/the printer to achieve correct colors if you have a color correction profile for your display as well as your printer. This is a separate issue from being able to work with the image in CMYK mode. Manipulating a photograph in CMYK mode is in most cases mostly pointless since the source of the data is the RGB model and the human visual system operates in RGB as well. The separation needed for CMYK varies between printers whilst sRGB is a standard color space for image exchange. /Øyvind K. Welll perception is everything. It is necessary for Gimp not to be as good as but better than its competition to gain acceptance. As soon as the CMYK lack is mentioned people in my industry are turned off and won't consider the product further. The product of professional print designers today is not separations or an sRGB file but a PDF or tiff file in CMYK model. Prepress, making of separations etc. is a separate process. If conversion is done at the end of the designer's workflow then there is no chance to put back the brightness that is lost. But there is perhaps a way to do it. If a display function can be added to Gimp whereby a double conversion is done, from RGB to CMYK and back again, then the user could view the illo in Gimp with the gamut limited to what it will be in CMYK model, and adjust saturation etc. to bring the photo back up to requirements. Since there is already a function to separate into CMYK colors it could possibly be a recombination of those separations into a single image. In the meantime people like the OP who want to use Gimp instead of Photoshop in their workflow will need to understand its limitations for photos destined for print jobs and develop workarounds. We need to be honest about this up front. -- John Culleton Able Indexing and Typesetting Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost. Satisfaction guaranteed. http://wexfordpress.com ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Color Printing
On Thursday 28 September 2006 08:31, Rob Ogle wrote: John, I'm the OP'er...since I'm a network tech and not a graphic designer I want to make sure I understand what I'm getting from these posts before I go back to the designer. When you wrote, ...will need to understand its limitations for photos destined for print jobs and develop workarounds Does that mean that there is no fix? Or is the fix to convert the visible image to cmyk in the Gimp so the designer can adjust colors, etc so the print should match the screen? That is more or less what I am asking for. The problem is the limited gamut of CMYK. What looks great in RGB looks dull in CMYK. For serious color work you need a monitor that can be adjusted for color temperature and software that will accept icc profiles and so on. Then you need to run tests, perhaps with a calibrated color target. Photoshop has a lot of this stuff built in. Scribus, which lacks the plugins etc. of Gimp, nevertheless will deal with the CMYK model and ICC profiles. Of course ImageMagick and GraphicsMagick can do conversions back and forth. At this point however it is mostly cut and try with Gimp. You have to do a lot of tests on your setup to get it right. I bought a used sony pro monitor on EBay, model CPD G250 and I have adjusted the color temperature to my flourescent environment. But I haven't gone much further with it, I've been using the Gimp in a limited capacity for the past 4 years and I love it. I like to promote it as much as possible. As do I, but the color model thing is serious and I have to be honest about it. -- John Culleton Able Indexing and Typesetting Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost. Satisfaction guaranteed. http://wexfordpress.com ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Color Printing
Hi, On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 08:07 -0400, John R. Culleton wrote: But there is perhaps a way to do it. If a display function can be added to Gimp whereby a double conversion is done, from RGB to CMYK and back again, then the user could view the illo in Gimp with the gamut limited to what it will be in CMYK model, and adjust saturation etc. to bring the photo back up to requirements. Since there is already a function to separate into CMYK colors it could possibly be a recombination of those separations into a single image. This option exists since GIMP 2.2 (or even 2.0, I don't remember). It's called a Soft Proof and there's a display filter for it. With 2.4 it will become even easier to use this functionality. Sven ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
[Gimp-user] Printing on CDs with the new gtk+ printing dialog
Hi all. With the old gimp print dialog ( and with the help of a gimp plugin to set up CD covers ), I've had great success in printing CD covers. After a recent gimp update, the old print dialog has been replaced with the new gtk+ one. I can't get it to print CD covers. It says: Image width (11.1097 in) is larger than printable width (4.56944 in). I have selected the correct media type ( CD - 5 in ) and also selected this in the 'page setup' bit. I've checked everything else in the print dialog as well. Copying my gimp project to a PC with an older Gimp allows me to print this CD cover. Any ideas? Dan -- Daniel Kasak IT Developer NUS Consulting Group Level 5, 77 Pacific Highway North Sydney, NSW, Australia 2060 T: (+61) 2 9922-7676 / F: (+61) 2 9922 7989 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: http://www.nusconsulting.com.au ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Printing on CDs with the new gtk+ printing dialog
Hi, On Fri, 2006-09-29 at 09:20 +1000, Daniel Kasak wrote: With the old gimp print dialog ( and with the help of a gimp plugin to set up CD covers ), I've had great success in printing CD covers. After a recent gimp update, the old print dialog has been replaced with the new gtk+ one. I can't get it to print CD covers. It says: Image width (11.1097 in) is larger than printable width (4.56944 in). I have selected the correct media type ( CD - 5 in ) and also selected this in the 'page setup' bit. I've checked everything else in the print dialog as well. Copying my gimp project to a PC with an older Gimp allows me to print this CD cover. Any ideas? You can install gutenprint if that gives you better results. You could investigate the problem and file a bug report against GTK+. You can use the stable GIMP that you should still have installed. Or did you actually replace it with an unstable development snapshot? Sven ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Printing on CDs with the new gtk+ printing dialog
Sven Neumann wrote: ith an older Gimp allows me to print this CD cover. Any ideas? You can install gutenprint if that gives you better results. I also have this installed. You could investigate the problem and file a bug report against GTK+. You can use the stable GIMP that you should still have installed. Or did you actually replace it with an unstable development snapshot? I replaced it, but rolling back isn't too hard, and I have a lot of other PCs around I can use for now. I will investigate further and file a bug against gtk. Thanks for the quick response :) -- Daniel Kasak IT Developer NUS Consulting Group Level 5, 77 Pacific Highway North Sydney, NSW, Australia 2060 T: (+61) 2 9922-7676 / F: (+61) 2 9922 7989 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: http://www.nusconsulting.com.au ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
