Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
Hi, Alan Horkan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Perhaps if voting was allowed on Gimp bugs in bugzilla it would > become apparent which features are really most important to users? It just doesn't work that way. The developers know quite well what features are most requested but that doesn't necessarily make them sit down in their free time and implement them. The weight that a particular feature request gets depends a lot on who asks for it. If someone who has contributed in whatever way to The GIMP project asks for a certain feature, chances are that it will get done that very day. If thousand anonymmous cowarsds at slashdot break out in flame-baits about how sucky the user interface is, that will likely turn any developer down enough to not write a single line of code. There has to be a certain fun part about hacking a feature. Let me give you an example. Jimmac and Tigert sat down yesterday and created a mockup of how an improved "File New" dialog could look like. It has been a pleasure for me to implement this mockup for them or, thanks to IRC even with them. If you want to see a certain area of a free software project to be improved, you can of course attempt to draw developer's attention on that area by pointing at it over and over again. This may work but it's not likely that it will unless you give your voice some weight. A well-done argumentation is a good start. Detailed suggestions (like a dialog mockup or other proposals) get you a good deal further. Being known as a contributor (not necessarily of code) probably gets you the most extra points. > Would it be acceptable to start a meta bug that that tried to group > bugs that users familiar with Adobe Photoshop find particularly > annoying? All these requests and meta tracking bugs, voted or not, won't change the fact that some volunteer developer needs to sit down and write the code. That someone needs motivation. Adding yet another tracking bug surely won't hurt but I don't see it motivating anyone. Sven ___ Gimp-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
I read the article and comments on Slashdot (like others have) and then the
comments below.
For the most part, I think the GImp users are happy with it. The vast
majority of discussion that goes on in this list deals with questions asked
about performing certain functions or tasks (the "How do I" questions),
followed by some questions asking when Gimp will support some
functionality, like CMYK support and support for 16-bit images (please
excuse my incorrect use of terminology), etc. Before the Slashdot article,
I don't recall seeing many, if any, "Gimp sucks" posts or anything like
that here. In fact, I recall reading comments from a number of PhotoShop
users who converted or are in the process of converting to using Gimp and
those seem to be the main people asking for CMYK and that kind of
enhancement/support.
The point is, I don't think things in "Gimp land" are as bad as your
comments indicate. It's clear from the comments in the Slashdot article
that a number of people either don't like or don't "get" the Gimp
interface. I've got no issue with those comments since people are allowed
to have their opinions. However, I don't think Gimp is "broken" or
severely "deficient" or anything like that. It works quite well for me and
Gimp 2.0.1 runs well on both my Windows and Linux systems. The UI, even on
Windows, isn't a mystery at all, or maybe I'm just used to it. The Gimp
interface seemed "natural" to me since I come from a Unix background moreso
than a Windows background so I'm not expecting Gimp to behave like any
other Windows app *just because* it runs on Windows. I'm sure at some
point that might happen and then I'm not sure what I'll do. :)
Seriously, we all know Gimp isn't perfect and could use improvement
(outside of blatant bugs that need fixing, etc) and I have confidence in
the Gimp developers that it WILL improve over time. I consider Gimp 2 to
be a considerable improvement over Gimp 1.2, even though we're all wanting
to get some of the old plug-ins and filters back. :) What I find most
interesting is people are more willing to criticize and critique than they
are to submit "useful" information through the feeedback mechanisms in
place, whether that be through submitting Bug Reports or posting comments
on the mailing list or maybe making use of the Wiki on the Gimp site (if
that's appropriate).
Maybe I'm in the minority here but I'm a happy Gimp user and I'm sticking
with it, "cumbersome" UI and all. :)
Peace
Tom
Alan Horkan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
05/05/2004 03:16
PM
On Wed, 5 May 2004, Sven Neumann wrote:
> Date: 05 May 2004 02:13:13 +0200
> From: Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Alan Horkan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: Gimp Users <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
>
> Hi,
>
> Alan Horkan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > How many more of these articles must be written before the Gimp
> > developers accept that simple drawing tools are a must for a certain
> > type of user?
>
> We accepted this fact a long time ago. Pointing at it again doesn't
> hurt but in the end someone needs to sit down and write code.
While I cannot provide the code I guess what I can do is draw peoples
attention to the bug that address their concerns.
[So for user that want basic drawing tools in the Gimp it would be this
bug report:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65197 ]
Everytime there is a new Gimp release or featured article the same issues
come up, it is frustrating for everyone, clearly there is a knowledge gap.
While I realis
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
On Wed, 5 May 2004, Sven Neumann wrote: > Date: 05 May 2004 02:13:13 +0200 > From: Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Alan Horkan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Gimp Users <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot > > Hi, > > Alan Horkan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > How many more of these articles must be written before the Gimp > > developers accept that simple drawing tools are a must for a certain > > type of user? > > We accepted this fact a long time ago. Pointing at it again doesn't > hurt but in the end someone needs to sit down and write code. While I cannot provide the code I guess what I can do is draw peoples attention to the bug that address their concerns. [So for user that want basic drawing tools in the Gimp it would be this bug report: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65197 ] Everytime there is a new Gimp release or featured article the same issues come up, it is frustrating for everyone, clearly there is a knowledge gap. While I realise that much of the discussion on Slashdot is unhelpful it would be very good 'PR' if the Gimp developers could publically address a few of the significant issues and actively solicit code in the cases where that is all that is required. Perhaps if voting was allowed on Gimp bugs in bugzilla it would become apparent which features are really most important to users? Would it be acceptable to start a meta bug that that tried to group bugs that users familiar with Adobe Photoshop find particularly annoying? An Official and up to date List of Frequently Asked Questions would probably help too (and I know from recent discussions that is something we would all like to see). I did a quick look for FAQ and found this and the date at the bottom of the page (1996-1998) suggests it is not actively maintained. http://www.rru.com/~meo/gimp/faq-user.html And this FAQ is unofficial but it seems to be more recently maintained http://home.planet.nl/~dark-echo/gimp-faq/ And there is the GUG FAQs http://gug.sunsite.dk/faq.php Are there any other users currently maintaining FAQ that could be "blessed" and turned into an Official FAQ and put on the website into some sort of content management system (like Wiki, preferably one that supports HTML syntax)? I'm throwing out some ideas because I want to try and be constructive but I have exams coming up soon so I can only do a very limited amount at the moment. Sincerely Alan Horkan http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/ ___ Gimp-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
Hi, Alan Horkan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > How many more of these articles must be written before the Gimp > developers accept that simple drawing tools are a must for a certain > type of user? We accepted this fact a long time ago. Pointing at it again doesn't hurt but in the end someone needs to sit down and write code. Sven ___ Gimp-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
On Sun, 2 May 2004, Sven Neumann wrote: > Date: 02 May 2004 01:04:36 +0200 > From: Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Nonexistent Entity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Gimp Users <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot > > Hi, > > "Nonexistent Entity" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I read about it in "Grokking the GIMP" AFAIR. This works in GIMP > > 1.2.5 and 2.0.1 on Win32, but I think it should work on Linux > > too. It works only when you have an Image Window selected. > > It's also explained in the startup tips: > > If your screen is too cluttered, you can press Tab multiple > times in an image window to hide or show the toolbox and other dialogs. > > I strongly suggest reading the "Tips of the Day". There are a lot of > very important hints in there. Granted this works but lets face it until the Gimp provides the basic drawing tools that most users want people will continue to ask. I dont accept that Select+Stroke is adequate and neither will anyone that has used Microsoft Paint or Adobe Photoshop (which is almost everyone). Also Adobe Photoshop allows one to easily draw shapes (such as polygons) that are very difficult to draw using only select+Stroke. How many more of these articles must be written before the Gimp developers accept that simple drawing tools are a must for a certain type of user? If even you just accept that it is necessary and then blame lack of developer resources that would be a whole lot better than the current user hostile situtation by which users are blamed for not being "smart enough" to use the stroke tool. There is NEVER any excuse to blame the user, if something is difficult then very likely it needs to be made easier and even if the user is completely wrong they should politely be directed to the FAQ or relevant documentation. There is never any excuse to berate users for not knowing something especially if there is not good easy to find documentation. - Alan ___ Gimp-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
Hi, Steve Crane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I found the tip about the Tab but it doesn't work. As I said before > this is 1.2.3 on Linux (KDE). Pressing Tab with the image window > focussed does nothing. I wonder if KDE is trapping the keystroke, > preventing Gimp from receiving it? That is most probably the case. Sven ___ Gimp-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
On Sun, May 02, 2004 at 01:04:36AM +0200, Sven Neumann wrote: > > If your screen is too cluttered, you can press Tab multiple > times in an image window to hide or show the toolbox and other dialogs. > > I strongly suggest reading the "Tips of the Day". There are a lot of > very important hints in there. I'll do that. I think I did once but have probably forgotten a bunch of useful things that I didn't actually start using. I found the tip about the Tab but it doesn't work. As I said before this is 1.2.3 on Linux (KDE). Pressing Tab with the image window focussed does nothing. I wonder if KDE is trapping the keystroke, preventing Gimp from receiving it? -- Steve Crane http://craniac.afraid.org ___ Gimp-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
Hi, "Nonexistent Entity" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I read about it in "Grokking the GIMP" AFAIR. This works in GIMP > 1.2.5 and 2.0.1 on Win32, but I think it should work on Linux > too. It works only when you have an Image Window selected. It's also explained in the startup tips: If your screen is too cluttered, you can press Tab multiple times in an image window to hide or show the toolbox and other dialogs. I strongly suggest reading the "Tips of the Day". There are a lot of very important hints in there. Sven ___ Gimp-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
On Sat, 1 May 2004 20:40:28 +0200, Steve Crane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am not aware of any tricks regarding the TAB key. Please would you be so kind as to clue me in. I just tried it in 1.2.3 (yeah, I know) on Linux and it doesn't do anything there. Perhaps it only works in later versions. Well, when you press the TAB key while in Image Window - all other GIMP windows will disappear (except for other image windows if you have multiple images open). If you press TAB again the Toolbox will appear, after pressing it next time, all previosly hidden windows will come back. I read about it in "Grokking the GIMP" AFAIR. This works in GIMP 1.2.5 and 2.0.1 on Win32, but I think it should work on Linux too. It works only when you have an Image Window selected. HTH ___ Gimp-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
On Sat, May 01, 2004 at 08:47:36PM +0300, Nonexistent Entity wrote: > GIMP has a beautiful flexible UI design (especially when you know about > the TAB key :) ) I am not aware of any tricks regarding the TAB key. Please would you be so kind as to clue me in. I just tried it in 1.2.3 (yeah, I know) on Linux and it doesn't do anything there. Perhaps it only works in later versions. -- Steve Crane http://craniac.afraid.org ___ Gimp-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp on Slashdot
On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:59:06 -1000, Wayne Maeda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There's a new posting on Slashdot (slashdot.org) about how the GIMP compares to Photoshop;"The Gimp from the Eyes of a Photoshop User." Note the lng comment thread of complaints about GIMP's UI that follows. Wayne I haven't used GIMP on a Mac, but one of the reasons I like GIMP is its maybe unusual on Windows but *very* appealing to me UI. While PS & others clutter the screen with absolutely useless bounding window, menu bar, tool windows that can only be on top of the image, GIMP has a beautiful flexible UI design (especially when you know about the TAB key :) ), it's also great for 2 monitor systems. And GIMP's very low memory consumption while in background is probably also because it's not MDI. I'd regret it if GIMP would ever go MDI without leaving SDI option. ___ Gimp-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
