Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 11/04/2013 02:30 AM, dksill wrote: I fully agree with the first post of this blog. the question whether to save unsaved work spoils the whole efficiency to quickly edit a file. Hi It's a "very old" story... *Four years ago* Gimp developer Martin Nordholts explained on his blog: "A lot of people over at GIMPUSERS.com want the old save and "export" mechanism back. The conclusion to draw from that is that they are not part of the user group we are targeting. We are not trying to make GIMP into an excellent JPEG touchup application, we are making GIMP into a high-end photo manipulation application where most of the work is done in XCF." http://www.chromecode.com/2009/09/reactions-on-gimp-270.html Therefore we, professional (or advanced users), are not "the user group (they) are targeting... Martin Nordholts forgot other image formats, better than jpeg because they are not destructive: png, tiff. These three formats are very used in professional world but Martin Nordholts an gimp team sadly ignore it... Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 10/12/2013 01:44 PM, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: On 12 Oct 2013 19:23, "maderios" mailto:mader...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > On 10/11/2013 10:20 PM, Melleus wrote: > >> P.S. If you really prefer accidentally loosing your information you can >> surely redefine hot keys. >> > Hi > This is a false problem. Since last 14 years I've used all versions of Gimp, I never lost my work. First rule : save it periodically. > > -- > Maderios How is it false when you provide just one example (yourself)? And the email you replied to gives a presumably true account which shows it has been a problem for him/her? I was not clear enough, sorry... Generally speaking, in any job, you must follow certain rules. Regarding editing or creation of images, the first rule is not to wait until the end to save the work. Personally, I save at least every milestone, sometimes every step. I keep several versions of the project, then I can remove them. -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 10/11/2013 10:20 PM, Melleus wrote: P.S. If you really prefer accidentally loosing your information you can surely redefine hot keys. Hi This is a false problem. Since last 14 years I've used all versions of Gimp, I never lost my work. First rule : save it periodically. -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 10/10/2013 12:56 PM, Andrew & Bridget wrote: On 10/10/2013 11:17, Helen wrote: Although I also hate the new feature which restricts what I can do, I don't think taking a poll is a useful idea. It seems to me the developers ought to be aware, as everyone else is, that this was a bad move, that many (who knows whether most, but certainly many) GIMP users hate it, and just allow users the same choice we had for so many years. If there is a down side to allowing users to make this choice, I haven't heard what that is. I am very sure the developers are aware 'you' feel this is a bad move, not all 'GIMP' users would agree with you. What I find very strange with this thread, is that many repliers to the thread (I am not meaning you particularly) are demanding change back, but the developers are wishing to take the project in a direction of their liking, which some people really do not understand. Hi Info : in the Linux/GNU software world, Gimp seems to be an exception. Regarding other softwares, developers improve the tool thanks to feedback from users, especially professional users who spend a lot of time working with the tool. Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] changes in gimp 2.8
On 09/14/2013 01:03 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote: On 14.09.2013 01:12, Josh Stratton wrote: Was this really a developer consensus Yes. http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Save_%2B_export_specification Hi When using a simple tool to perform simple tasks requires a long philosophical explanation, we can say that there is a problem somewhere in its design... Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/13/2013 07:14 PM, Akkana Peck wrote: Oon-Ee Ng writes: Thousands? In all the time I've followed this list I've seen maybe a dozen threads. I believe all of them have your replies in there. Trying to count the number of complainants, I estimate probably one or two dozen as well. In case people are curious: I've been saving posts on this topic since the beginning. Initially I was curious how the weight of opinion would balance out, and once I got started I just kept saving them. My count isn't exact: I didn't save messages I judged to be "too far off topic" (like the recent Excel discussion), but that's an opinion call; and my archive also includes email and blog comments I've received regarding my save-export-clean plug-in, so it has a few messages that haven't appeared on these lists. The current count is 1414, not including this message. I never tried to classify individual messages as for or against the change, so I have no counts for that. ...Akkana ___ Hi Akkana Thanks for your "save-export-clean" plug-in which is very useful. That's all I can say Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] I cannot support 2.8
On 08/13/2013 07:20 PM, ajtiM wrote: I am GIMP user from time when GIMP came out and I was all the time Unix user. For me is GIMP 2.8 better than 2.6 and I believe that Photoshop is written by programmers too… Hi 1) Yes photoshop is written by programmers too but these programmers are assisted by professional users of image editing and professional photographers. 2) Photoshop is first made for professionals needs, then for "amateur" users. For Gimp, it is the opposite. Regards On Aug 13, 2013, at 1:01 PM, M_Leverette wrote: Developers of GIMP, I realize that the GIMP is written by programmers and not photographers or artists. I can no longer see financially supporting the GIMP beyond 2.6 due to the poor decisions made in 2.8. I much prefer to use GIMP over PS and other commercial software I have at my disposal. It is with a heavy heart I tell the GIMP community. Unless the developers correct obvious issues made by "so-called" improvements, in the next release, I see no future for GIMP at all. I know there are few of you who will read this and say, who cares? I do. That is why I will continue to use 2.6.7 for as long as I can. But the developers of GIMP will have to do it without my funding until they get back on the right track. Until then, I will be waiting. Sincerely, Marc -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/10/2013 06:54 PM, John Meyer wrote: On 8/10/2013 10:50 AM, maderios wrote: On 08/09/2013 03:07 PM, s.kortenweg wrote: When i started 50 years ago in the early days of IT as prof was me told that there are 2 rules for program developers : first keep it simple and second the user must be happy with the results of your work. In the endless discussion of export vs. Save i believe that the second rule is violated. Hi The Gimp developers approach is unfortunately very "closed". They do not care about the users and they believe they have the truth But a developer is mainly a developer, not a professional image editing. You can compare with other software development, like new Enlightenment (E17 and E18). It's completely different. The developers and the main developer (Rasterman) listen to users reviews and they use these criticisms to improve the program. http://www.enlightenment.org/ http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=enlightenment-users Greetings if they're so good, go and use them, then. Or take a few classes on programming and fork the code, as I suggested earlier. Seriously, nothing's wrong with criticism of a feature you like or don't like as a user as long as: 1. You explain that as a user 2. You realize that you may be in the minority there. Hi I use Enlightenment everyday, I try to help developers if I can, modestly Minority ? Thousands of posts on this list about the problem save export Gimp-2.8, it does not matter of course The developers seem to live in a sealed box, ignoring the image editing reality, ignoring the fact that the new "save export" breaks the rhythm of work. Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/10/2013 08:46 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:54 PM, John Meyer wrote: And I don't know about Enlightenment, but I'm assuming that the main developer isn't trying to please everybody. Listen to everybody, fine. But pleasing everybody is the same as pleasing nobody. Sadly not everyone understands the distinction. Thank you, John. What are you talkin about ? I wrote "listen" to users, not "to please" "Listening" means "I dont know the truth, I open my windows and my door, I want to work with users, not ignore them Good night -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/09/2013 03:07 PM, s.kortenweg wrote: When i started 50 years ago in the early days of IT as prof was me told that there are 2 rules for program developers : first keep it simple and second the user must be happy with the results of your work. In the endless discussion of export vs. Save i believe that the second rule is violated. Hi The Gimp developers approach is unfortunately very "closed". They do not care about the users and they believe they have the truth But a developer is mainly a developer, not a professional image editing. You can compare with other software development, like new Enlightenment (E17 and E18). It's completely different. The developers and the main developer (Rasterman) listen to users reviews and they use these criticisms to improve the program. http://www.enlightenment.org/ http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=enlightenment-users Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] suggestion for Gimp
On 08/10/2013 03:45 PM, Jernej Simončič wrote: On Sat, 10 Aug 2013 14:55:43 +0200, maderios wrote: Good question but I'm not developer... Then how can you know it's simple? *know* and *simple* are your words I wrote : *I think that both versions would not be very different, thus coding and maintenance would be small* -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] suggestion for Gimp
On 08/10/2013 02:36 PM, Jernej Simončič wrote: On Sat, 10 Aug 2013 12:11:55 +0200, maderios wrote: I think that both versions would not be very different, thus coding and maintenance would be small. Well, if it's that simple, why don't you do it? Good question but I'm not developer... -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] suggestion for Gimp
On 08/10/2013 12:15 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 2:11 PM, maderios wrote: Developers could offer two versions of Gimp: - One version for amateurs with the gimp 2.8 behavior - One version for professionals with the gimp 2.6 behavior that allows to save files quickly and normally just like most free or commercial editors images. This would allow everyone to be satisfied Except for developers who would have to maintain two versions. But who cares about them, eh? I think that both versions would not be very different, thus coding and maintenance would be small. Another solution would consist in keeping single Gimp but in proposing two possible configurations. Even approach as for both interfaces. I realize it might sound arrogant, but do you understand the meaning of the word "no"? The word " no " exists only for the pessimists... :-) -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] suggestion for Gimp
On 08/08/2013 09:53 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 11:47 PM, maderios wrote: Hi This positive proposal could end the eternal discussion "save vs. export", etc Developers could offer two versions of Gimp: - One version for amateurs with the gimp 2.8 behavior - One version for professionals with the gimp 2.6 behavior that allows to save files quickly and normally just like most free or commercial editors images. This would allow everyone to be satisfied Except for developers who would have to maintain two versions. But who cares about them, eh? I think that both versions would not be very different, thus coding and maintenance would be small. Another solution would consist in keeping single Gimp but in proposing two possible configurations. Even approach as for both interfaces. -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] suggestion for Gimp
Hi This positive proposal could end the eternal discussion "save vs. export", etc Developers could offer two versions of Gimp: - One version for amateurs with the gimp 2.8 behavior - One version for professionals with the gimp 2.6 behavior that allows to save files quickly and normally just like most free or commercial editors images. This would allow everyone to be satisfied Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 07/18/2013 11:06 PM, mrule wrote: I would prefer the "old save" format and add a warning ( that is easily closed with a keystroke or two ) if the save operation will cause loss of data. This will result in less loss of work on average. Hi What you call "old save" is the standard now in most editors... I think the choice of this "new save" is mostly ideological: developers want only .xcf Most users don't need to use .xcf -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Is this Possible...?
On 07/05/2013 10:43 PM, Sleepingbeautiie wrote: > http://www.gimpchat.com/files/196_rip-border-custom.png > ^What I mean is how the person got their GIMP layout all grey and textured and > everything ... is there any way that I can do this/that, too?.. > Hi Gimp is a native Linux soft. You may install Linux, then you could change the GTK theme. Examples http://gnome-look.org/?xcontentmode=100 Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] G'MIC 1.5.6.1 for Gimp is out
http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] A Sad case of regression
On 06/15/2013 04:38 PM, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 15:57:57 +0200 maderios wrote: This strange "save, save as" behaviour could not exist in a professional environment. A professional (and many amateurs) user know he has to save his work. I think Gimp-2.8 tries to do instead of the user that it should do himself. It looks like an other OS (not GNU/LINUX) philosophy : anticipate the desire of the user. And, worse, Tsar Alexander refuse to allow users to choose how they work. But thanks to Akkana, resistance is not futile... In developers world, women are rare. Some links concerning "Linux geekette" Akkana Peck http://www.shallowsky.com/software/ http://lanyrd.com/profile/akkakk/ http://lanyrd.com/2012/pycon/spckd/#link-hcgh http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Akkana_Peck http://gimpbook.com/ https://plus.google.com/112662956693744460184/posts -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] A Sad case of regression
On 06/15/2013 02:28 PM, Norbert Preining wrote: Hi all I not often write here, but I'm a regular user of gimp. But I slowly get upset by some mails here First: I am myself developer of open source projects as well as Debian developer, so not some casual user. These bullying emails are just plain rubbish. Software should be written with the users in mind. And - opening a jpg file - editing - saving should result in a saved version of yhe original file, because that is what practically all programs are doing, and what the user expectation, and natural behaviour is. Of course a program does not need to follow the guide lines, but then there should be a clear indication that it is doing something else than the standard/default/expected behaviour. It could all be easily avoided if there were two entries "save as gimp doc" and "save as original" and a config setting for the default shortcut binding. I don't mind gimp devs pushing for xcf format, what I dislike is breaking of expected behaviour and, like above emails, ignorance of the problem. Norbert +10 Hi This strange "save, save as" behaviour could not exist in a professional environment. A professional (and many amateurs) user know he has to save his work. I think Gimp-2.8 tries to do instead of the user that it should do himself. It looks like an other OS (not GNU/LINUX) philosophy : anticipate the desire of the user. -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] mistake
On 06/07/2013 09:26 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote: *You* have posted here before and *know* this is an *English* language list. Hi Please, don't see troll everywhere.. Sorry, i'ts a mistake... This message was intended to the french debian list. -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HS_Sortie de G'Mic 1.5.6.0 pour Gimp
Bonjour Cocorico Le développeur principal est français http://gmic.sourceforge.net/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/gmic/ download http://sourceforge.net/projects/gmic/files/?source=navbar -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] New G'Mic for Gimp
Hi G'Mic 1.5.6.0 for Gimp is out http://sourceforge.net/projects/gmic/ download http://sourceforge.net/projects/gmic/files/?source=navbar -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] IPTC with GIMP
On 05/21/2013 09:31 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Alain Sahuquet UM2 wrote: Hello, how can i use IPTC tags in GIMP? Hi Alain, Unfortunately you cannot edit or add IPTC tags with GIMP yet. There is an ongoing work to add a metadata dialog, but the last thing I heard is that it will be primarily targeting XMP and Exif. Hi everybody Until we can do it with Gimp, you can create and/or edit all kinds of tags with Digikam. http://www.digikam.org/ http://userbase.kde.org/Digikam/TaggingEfficient Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] About Free Software
On 04/26/2013 08:13 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:20 AM, maderios wrote: Ask yourself why most users still sulking Gimp... Last time I checked you weren't selected by the majority of users to express their point of view. Impersonation is hardly a convincing approach. We've listened to your opinion and we respectfully disagree. The matter ends there. Your further attempts to disrupt the easy-going atmosphere in the community are likely to cause some administrative action. Hi Alexandre Democracy provides an opportunity to criticize, to improve everything. Don't be afraid with democracy... http://blogs.fsfe.org/hugo/2009/11/free-software-free-society-of-democracy-and-hacking-draft-1/ -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Change the default Save extension
On 04/25/2013 08:59 PM, Sam Gleske wrote: Being misinformed does *not* qualify as trolling. The way Owen came out of the gate swinging is what I would consider trolling (stirring up a fuss). I wasn't even involved in the discussion until now and I got pissed when I read his comments. I think the list can do better than that. I don't want our list to end up like the Linux kernel ML where if strict rules aren't followed newcomers are harassed to no end. It's very counter productive and a lot of times why I categorically leave communities. You'll find it is much harder to expand your developer base if you act immature like that. Have some patience. Hi You can try to compare Gimp list with other lists like Digikam or E17. It's very different... Developers listen to users because they do not know all the needs of users and they want to improve the software. Furthermore, these developers try sometimes to explain their approach, which allows to build relationships. This is beneficial to advance the project. Ask yourself why most users still sulking Gimp... Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Change the default Save extension
On 04/23/2013 05:59 PM, Richard Gitschlag wrote: > From: pat.mysterywri...@gmail.com > Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 02:40:23 -0400 > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > Subject: [Gimp-user] Change the default Save extension > > Is there any way to change the format that's the default save. I don't > use .xcf and prefer to use png or jpg. Why do I have to export them > instead of simply save? Why did they change it in this version? It's > annoying. > > Pat Brown > > http://pabrown.com/ > It is perfectly okay to write garbage--as long as you edit brilliantly > - C. J. Cherryh > ___ > gimp-user-list mailing list > gimp-user-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list The reason is because a lot of other people use GIMP to work on complicated digital art which requires keeping a file containing multiple layers, and some of those people lost valuable project time and effort by saving to the wrong file format before quitting GIMP. (It's not the 'saving' part that was necessarily the problem, but the 'quitting' part). I agree the change may be difficult to get used to and it possibly was not implemented or handled as well as it could be, but the new behavior is also a standard design paradigm so for now your choices really do boil down to adjusting to the new behavior or moving on to something else (I hear there's an alternate GIMP fork which restores the old behavior). Hi Lot of people don't "use GIMP to work on complicated digital art". Example : my wife is a teacher, and like most teachers, she just need to resize, change tone, etc... .png or .jpeg pictures, never .xcf. This behavior is annoying because many people think that gimp is unusable and therefore install photoshop. This is not a good advertisement for the free software. There's no alternate GIMP fork which restores the normal behavior. I'm getting tired of seeing the word "troll" whenever someone criticizes Gimp Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] Libre Graphics Meeting 2013 Madrid 10-13 April
Program http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2013/program/ -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] G'MIC plugin for Gimp
Hi We can test G'MIC new release http://sourceforge.net/p/gmic/wiki/G%27MIC%20Inpainting%20results/ https://plus.google.com/117441237982283011318/posts Download http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] Good approach : GNOME 3.8 Released Featuring New "Classic" Mode
Hi We can compare this new "classic" mode with the "classic" save or save as mode available with Gimp 2.4 but strangely absent in the new gimp 2.6. Gnome users didn't like new Gnome behaviour, developers listened, they give them the choice...:-)Good approach. http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/03/28/2146221/gnome-38-released-featuring-new-classic-mode http://www.webupd8.org/2013/02/a-quick-look-at-new-gnome-classic.html http://www.unixmen.com/gnome-3-8-released-brings-back-classic-mode/ http://worldofgnome.org/gnome-classic-will-be-a-separate-session-in-3-8/ -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] Gimp and Inkscape
A new blog with tutorials here http://www.designmarkgraphics.co.uk/blog/ -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 03/01/2013 04:09 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 7:07 PM, darkweasel wrote: Am 2013-03-01 15:50, schrieb maderios: Translation : Only the elite need gimp, others just need to pay for normal but commercial editor... Greetings I do not understand it like that - did you actually check out darktable? Personally, I think that Daniel's suggestion to privately answer mails like that one was rather sensible ;-) You're true Alexandre... This list is reserved for the elite (end off trolling) Regards -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 02/28/2013 10:05 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 12:58 AM, pbft wrote: I just need to make edits on a few hundred JPGs with the least possible effort. And an old-fashioned image editor is, of course, the best tool for this kind of job, isn't it? Translation : Only the elite need gimp, others just need to pay for normal but commercial editor... Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save
On 02/20/2013 01:26 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 09:47:10PM +0800, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: I don't use the word flippantly, but it seems odd to me how many users seem to feel devs owe them something (explanations, time, respect). Where's that entitlement come from? In open source, developers and users should be on the same side. Many times, there is some "flow" between the two groups. With commercial software, the relationship is explicitly one of commerce and market dynamics. With open source, when functional at least, the whole community is important. So, while you certainly get a number of obnoxious people with an over-wrought sense of entitlement, not all feedback along these lines is that way. I share what I think not because I can't work around it, but because the new "enforced" workflow is more difficult for me and I think more difficult for others, to the detriment of the software as a whole. I don't presume any right to demand anything, but designers and developers who don't listen to their engaged, active, and concerned users are missing something valuable. If the same thing keeps coming up over and over again to the point where everyone is tired of it and very frustrated, maybe it's time to step back and rethink a little bit. Someone a while ago had the suggestion of building "sidecar" files with the entire undo history of an image. As storage space continues to increase, that sounds like a very promising path providing best of all worlds. I mean, sure, the developers are perfectly fine in saying "no, we're gonna do it this way", but it's also short-sighted to say "and stop giving feedback". It seems better to say "We did it this way for reasons x, y, and z, but we recognize that what you're asking isn't like the broken spacebar comic. You have options a and b now, and we're thinking about some even better approaches in the future." That's not a sign of weakness. I completely agree with your comment -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] import vs open
On 02/19/2013 10:59 AM, Daniel Hauck wrote: On 02/18/2013 10:09 PM, Liam R E Quin wrote: On Mon, 2013-02-18 at 14:06 -0600, Chris Mohler wrote: Current File-Open makes sense as it is, at least to me. File->Save made sense to people too. But if GIMP is an XCF editor that can only save xcf files, being able to open non-xcf files is an obvious bug, a hole in the metaphor. It should only open xcf files. Non-GIMP files are "imported" to emphasize the data loss and that they are not primary. That was my argument as well. In fact, and I'm not sure if they fixed this yet, but in 2.8.0, when you do the Save As... you could still see image files such as JPG and PNG, just not save in those formats. And of course if you manually typed it in, it would stop and say "you can't do that." That Save/Save As has been established since the creation of the the "standard GUI behaviors" is not relevant to the developers. "It's not professional" despite the fact that the most professional tools out there still do it this way. In any case, #1 it's hard to care about this any more... it doesn't matter THAT much. I can still use it and I just have to remember this All this scares the professional users. Now, the objective of Gimp seems to stay in the fields of amateur and therefore to delegate the role of single photo$hop image editor for professionals. This is a questionable approach It's not a good choice. From historical point of view, these are professionals who improve the software, not the fans. Example, the "devil", Photo$hop ... Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save
On 02/18/2013 04:45 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote: Von: maderios 3) These developers have created gimp according to their own practice. Have a look at http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/GIMP_UI_Redesign While I wouldn't say that the team are no developers, they probably aren't by your definition. Your problem is that this team managed to convince the developers (by your definition) to implement their plans. And apparently those are spreading to other software. These guys are "architects", they don't need Gimp... No artists, photographers, designers. Photoshop was made for professional photographers That's the difference. Photoshop / Saving images http://help.adobe.com/en_US/photoshop/cs/using/WSfd1234e1c4b69f30ea53e41001031ab64-7783a.html Regards -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save
On 02/18/2013 03:45 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 6:35 PM, maderios wrote: I use everyday "save-export-clean.py" plugin. Its' different from gimp-2.6 and other image editors like Krita, Digikam Showfoto, etc.. behavior. It becomes complicated because you get 5 options : - save - save as - export - save/export clean (python plugin) - save for web Assign Ctrl+S to the save/export clean (python plugin), and you have a single option. End of problem. Done since a long time When you edit many kinds of files, jpeg, png, xcf, tiff, gif, etc..., you can't spend your time to watch and remember which kind of file you're working on. This is the difference between amateur and professional/hard user work -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save
On 02/18/2013 09:37 AM, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer wrote: Burlen Loring writes: I'm sure the author(s) feels that it's the best thing since sliced bread, however, differentiating between save and export in newer gimp is a ridiculous waste of time. it's so annoying and in efficient that I feel the need to chime in against it and strongly hope this change will be reversed in a future release. The GIMP developers have stated that they are not reverting the change. Hi 1) We can suppose developers spend their precious time to code, not to create/edit images 2) Even if developers create images, these developers are amateurs, not professionals: they edit some photos, they do not need to save time like professionals. 3) These developers have created gimp according to their own practice. 4) These developers do not want to see what is happening elsewhere, in the professional world, it is a mistake... -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save
On 02/18/2013 02:09 AM, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Jeffery Small wrote: When a major UI change like this is contemplated, why would it not be implemented as a configuration switch which can be turned on/off on the Preferences menu? In this particular case, a simple switch could reverse the Save and Export functions. In the default mode, it would operate just There has probably been 1000 times more effort expended writing about this change than would have been spent implementing my suggestion above. That's something worth thinking about. This applies to both sides of the discussion. Except one side wants the old behaviour kept and one doesn't. Whose responsibility is it, then? What do Alexandre and the rest of the devs actually owe users in an open-source project? Particularly years after the change was first mooted and discussed. There are ALREADY plugins for those who want the old behaviour back (not that I've used them). While I can understand the fly-by posts by ignorant rant-ers (happens everywhere), I do not understand long-term readers of this ML continuing this discussion. Someone has already 'fixed' what you believe is broken Hi I use everyday "save-export-clean.py" plugin. Its' different from gimp-2.6 and other image editors like Krita, Digikam Showfoto, etc.. behavior. It becomes complicated because you get 5 options : - save - save as - export - save/export clean (python plugin) - save for web http://www.gimpusers.com/forums/gimp-user/14746-a-plug-in-for-those-who-still-don-t-like-the-new-save-export I do not understand myself why users (who use Gimp everyday, professional or not) opinion is not taken. Developers could give two options in the configuration: 2.6 OR 2.8 "save / save as" behavior. Gimp-2.6 behavior is not "old": it's the "standard" available in Krita, Digikam Showfoto, Libreoffice, Phot$op, most text editors, etc... -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP_plugin-save-export
On 02/11/2013 09:05 PM, Tobias Lunte wrote: you can install the patch that restores the old behaviour. Hi It's not a patch : A plug-in for those who still don't like the new Save/Export http://www.gimpusers.com/forums/gimp-user/14746-a-plug-in-for-those-who-still-don-t-like-the-new-save-export Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP
On 02/11/2013 08:01 PM, jfrazie...@nc.rr.com wrote: Example with gimp file => open => nut.png adjust contrast => ok I want to save it I can't... XCF ? But I don't want xcf now. Ok , I export # many many many files => export ok # many files later => export Arghhh..: what happens I believe the above illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what GIMP is and where it is going(at least my understanding). The underlying Mantra is "keep the original unaltered"(or some such) and GIMP is slowly working toward that approach. To accomplish the above workflow of altering the contrast of an image, a future version of GIMP(2.10, 3.0, ???) would not have you modify the original layer, but instead would have you add a Layer Style(or some such "thingy" of whatever name) that would modify the VISUAL representation of the layer, but would not actually edit the layer's pixels directly. You could add/remove layer styles at whim and could always get back to the original image both during the same editing session as well as in future sessions days/weeks/months/years removed. This rollback is not possible by direct editing of the original file. Yes, this is a really really simple example, but the same applies for an image that would need many modifications, aga in, the g oal should be non destructive editing. For example, I have used GIMP in the past to edit and create Tabletop Role Playing game maps. I may for example source an image of a rock which wish to place into my final image, but wish to add additional shadows and highlights to give the image depth to make it appear more three dimensional. Typically, I will place the rock(or multiples) onto a single layer. However, I NEVER, EVER, EVER modify that layer. My approach is to create a new layer filled with 50% grey set to overlay. I then use the dodge/burn tool upon this layer with various settings. Sometimes I copy this layer with reduced opacity. Again, the point being that the original layer is NOT destructively edited!!! Likewise, I NEVER, EVER make a selection and fill with some texture, especially on an existing layer with other image data on it. Instead, I put the texture upon it's own layer and then use a selection->Channel->Layer Mask. I spend a few additional minutes of work, but now I can far easily change to a different texture in the future if required. Again, it's a matter of learning and using the tool as it is intended to be used. Yes, it takes up more memory to use additional layers and layer masks, but it's well worth it in the flexibility it gives me if I ever need to go back and edit it. Here is the point: you have to remember/watch what kind of file you're working on. Nope, you are ALWAYS working on a GIMP .xcf file. The original format is irrelevant. You need to train your brain that this is fact. Irrelevant for your needs, may be, but non irrelevant for many people ... No, I work on all kinds of image files, not only xcf, sometimes none xcf at all, sometimes only xcf. I think some people here have a "narrow view" about working on image. This is the opposite of the artistic process... As noted by Alexandre multiple times, it may well be that you are refusing to accept that you are using the wrong tool. If you never need features that GIMP provides with the .xcf format, then this is almost certainly true. I am not trying to push you away from GIMP, but get you to really think about your needs and how they match up with GIMP's functionality both now and in the future. Based upon the above, if simple edits like contrast changes are what you use most of the time, then another product really is the best suggestion as GIMP will continue changing it's paradigm to support non destructive edits as new releases come out in the future(thus changing where you see items in the menus, how many steps you take to do the same thing may increase, etc.) You know, I work with Gimp, layers, etc, since many years If you know a better free soft, tell it to meGood lucK... The save/as behaviour of Gimp 2.6, Krita, Showfot (kde), is ok but Gimp-2.8 is much better (matchless), except for save function... -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP
On 02/11/2013 07:58 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: On 13-02-11 12:52 PM, maderios wrote: U => it "saves as", depending on the extension you want to choose, or the new name you choose. Why U? That wouldn't be an easy one to remember as having anything to do with a save operation. It's ok for french people like me We say "enregistrer sous". Translation: save as sous (french) = under => U For me, "save as" and "export" are the same. Quick and easy... I don't like "export" concept. Only the extension, xcf, png, etc., is important. -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP
On 02/11/2013 05:54 PM, jfrazie...@nc.rr.com wrote: maderios wrote: On 02/11/2013 05:03 PM, jfrazie...@nc.rr.com wrote: - Libreoffice : the same This is a selective functionality comparison on your part based upon a specific file format(s) or lack of knowledge of the actual product you are comparing. For example, Libreoffice has PDF as an EXPORT option, NOT an option under the "save/Save as" menu item. My LibreOffice Draw 3.5.4.2 Debian Wheezy I have a "save" option and "save as" options for the formats otg odg sxd std fodg and I can export as pdf, gif,jpeg and many other image file formats http://www.libreoffice.org/features/draw/ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications#LibreOffice_Draw_Guide Though I was actually thinking of Write, the concepts are exactly the same. How is the above functionality any different from GIMP? You open a file of some type in GIMP and GIMP creates it as a new .xcf file. It expects that you to save in that format to maintain GIMP features. Likewise, when you open ad file in Draw(such as .jpg), Draw creates new .odg file and expects you to save in that format to maintain Draw features. When you "save" it back out, it expects you to go to the Export menu instead of the Save menu. Again, how is that different from what GIMP is now enforcing, with the exception of Draw supporting a few additional save formats? Example with gimp file => open => nut.png adjust contrast => ok I want to save it I can't... XCF ? But I don't want xcf now. Ok , I export # many many many files => export ok # many files later => export Arghhh..: what happens "You can use this dialog to export to various file formats. If you want to save the image to the GIMP XCF format, use File→Save instead." Here is the point: you have to remember/watch what kind of file you're working on. It's possible for some images, not for a LOT OF files. When you work with many different kind of files, you can't spend your time to watch and to change your SHORTCUT To make life easier, I therefore propose two commands: save and save as. With only 2 shortcuts save (S) and save as (U ) you could save all kinds of files you want S => it "saves" the file or overwrite it U => it "saves as", depending on the extension you want to choose, or the new name you choose. -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP
On 02/11/2013 05:03 PM, jfrazie...@nc.rr.com wrote: - Libreoffice : the same Of course, I am not aware of your version of the product, so perhaps you have the older version installed rather than the latest version after this change in functionality was made. I tested 3.6 version too, it's nearly the same. You you're not forced to save in any "native" format, you can easily choose your file format. -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP
On 02/11/2013 05:03 PM, jfrazie...@nc.rr.com wrote: - Libreoffice : the same This is a selective functionality comparison on your part based upon a specific file format(s) or lack of knowledge of the actual product you are comparing. For example, Libreoffice has PDF as an EXPORT option, NOT an option under the "save/Save as" menu item. My LibreOffice Draw 3.5.4.2 Debian Wheezy I have a "save" option and "save as" options for the formats otg odg sxd std fodg and I can export as pdf, gif,jpeg and many other image file formats http://www.libreoffice.org/features/draw/ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications#LibreOffice_Draw_Guide -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP
On 02/11/2013 02:52 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 5:39 PM, maderios wrote: - Scribus-1.4 : the same Wrong. Scribus is built around its own file format and isn't suited for editing PDF which is its primary target file format. You don't open and save a PDF back in Scribus. file => open recent => open document.sla save document .sla save as document-2.sla export document.sla => save as image, pdf, etc With scribus you can only work with .sla And that proves your point exactly how? :) It just shows that scribus menus respect the "standard" : easy to use and not complicated and confused like in Gimp. Unlike scribus, you can edit all kinds of picture files with Gimp. No reason to create special dialog boxes to work with a particular file type (.xcf), except for beginners or people stunned... It slows down work for the others. I know I am repeating myself. Wrong. Ardour is built around the concept of sessions. It can mix audio and MIDI files, but it doesn't open them to edit and save back. You can "save" or "save as" session without any complication Oh dear. Oh deary, deary me. You never actually used Ardour, did you? You just opened it for the first time in your life and didn't go beyond the File menu. That explains a lot. First of all, a session in Ardour equals to XCF in GIMP. So when you say that you can "save" and "save as" a session in Ardour, you are basically supporting my point that Ardour behaves like GIMP 2.8, with save and export decoupled. Secondly, "save as" in Ardour is a very special thing that works unlike anything out there. It doesn't "save as" like other apps, into a new file that you specify. Instead it's kinda more like saving a snapshot. you can "save as" under an other name, it's very important The same goes for pretty much every nonlinear video editor: you don't open and save stuff back, you export it. Saving works only for an internal file format. Before I wrote my last message, I tested sofwares because I never talk about what I do not know. You've just proved that you didn't :) I dont want to prove anything. People can test themselves softwares I mentionned above and compare, *mainly* with other image editors like Krita, Showfoto or Libreoffice Draw Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP
On 02/11/2013 12:50 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:32 PM, maderios wrote: On 02/10/2013 06:14 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 9:06 PM, maderios wrote: Why complicate things ? This is a false problem. Any editor (gimp,libreoffice, krita, etc..) user must (learn to) save his work and should not rely on automation that slows work. Gimp should follow the standards available in all editors. Every time someone starts discussing it, you come up with this incorrect information. Hi Alexandre You're wrong. Please, try the softwares I suggest that you actually go and try them yourself. - Scribus-1.4 : the same Wrong. Scribus is built around its own file format and isn't suited for editing PDF which is its primary target file format. You don't open and save a PDF back in Scribus. file => open recent => open document.sla save document .sla save as document-2.sla export document.sla => save as image, pdf, etc With scribus you can only work with .sla - Ardour : the same Wrong. Ardour is built around the concept of sessions. It can mix audio and MIDI files, but it doesn't open them to edit and save back. You can "save" or "save as" session without any complication The same goes for pretty much every nonlinear video editor: you don't open and save stuff back, you export it. Saving works only for an internal file format. Before I wrote my last message, I tested sofwares because I never talk about what I do not know. Remind : My conditions test : Debian Wheezy system Everybody can test now these editors. - Krita: I open any file. I can choose "save" or "save as" without any complicated menu or any distinction about "native" file. This is the standard. - Libreoffice : the same - Scribus-1.4 : the same - Geany : the same - Ardour : the same - Showfoto (digikam editor) : the same And many all/other editors image or text editor EXCEPT Gimp I post my views here to improve things and not mindlessly bashing. Gimp is great even though it has some flaws that could be corrected. Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP
On 02/10/2013 06:14 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 9:06 PM, maderios wrote: Why complicate things ? This is a false problem. Any editor (gimp,libreoffice, krita, etc..) user must (learn to) save his work and should not rely on automation that slows work. Gimp should follow the standards available in all editors. Every time someone starts discussing it, you come up with this incorrect information. Hi Alexandre You're wrong. Please, try the softwares Everybody can test now these editors - Krita: I open any file. I can choose "save" or "save as" without any complicated menu or any distinction about "native" file. This is the standard. - Libreoffice : the same - Scribus-1.4 : the same - Geany : the same - Ardour : the same - Showfoto (digikam editor) : the same And many other editors I wait for your answer Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP
On 02/10/2013 03:52 AM, Richard Gitschlag wrote: > Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 16:40:54 +0100 > From: mader...@gmail.com > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP > > On 02/07/2013 02:16 AM, WhoCares wrote: > > Hi Whomever is listening, > > > > I don't use The GIMP very much, but today I pulled out 2.8.2 (Ubuntu + MATE) so > > I could put some screenies together. 2 things hit me immediately: > > > > - Firstly, I can't really use the toolbox anymore. This could be more specific > > to my system, but the top of the toolbox slides under my top panel. This is a > > more general problem with my system and certain applications after switching to > > MATE, so like I said .. it might be system specific. What may or may not be > > system specific is the bottom of the toolbox sliding off the bottom of the > > screen (768). The end result is .. I can only resize the toolbox horizontally, > > so the thing is just .. in the way of the whole screen height. > > > > - Secondly (and more importantly) it would seem that The GIMP is now enforcing > > that I use Ctrl + E to save my images, else it tries to get me to use XCF > > format. The problem with XCF format (for me at least) is that not everyone I > > work with uses The GIMP, hence I never use the XCF format. My instant reaction > > with any program while working is to frequently use Ctrl + S to save my current > > file to it's current location without further intervention. So essentially this > > functionality is .. well, not consistent with any other piece of software I've > > seen in the last 25 years. > Hi > I spent lot of time here asking why "save as" and "save" normal > functions are now unavailable in Gimp. > My conclusion: this new Gimp behaviour prevents newbies, to loose their > work. The case in point: In GIMP up thru 2.6: Create image, add layers and make edits, save as XCF. Then "Save As" a JPG. All good so far, right? Now make more edits, "Save" and quit GIMP. Then upon restarting, reload the XCF file to continue making more edits. But OOPS! The XCF isn't up to date with all the edits because your last Save command targetted the JPG file. Ideally you should have been using "Save a Copy" for this scenario but apparently nobody ever wanted to do that (and the command is basically redundant in 2.8 anyway). Hi Much noise about common functions... Why complicate things ? This is a false problem. Any editor (gimp,libreoffice, krita, etc..) user must (learn to) save his work and should not rely on automation that slows work. Gimp should follow the standards available in all editors. It does not, it is very annoying. Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Suggestions for the GIMP
On 02/07/2013 02:16 AM, WhoCares wrote: Hi Whomever is listening, I don't use The GIMP very much, but today I pulled out 2.8.2 (Ubuntu + MATE) so I could put some screenies together. 2 things hit me immediately: - Firstly, I can't really use the toolbox anymore. This could be more specific to my system, but the top of the toolbox slides under my top panel. This is a more general problem with my system and certain applications after switching to MATE, so like I said .. it might be system specific. What may or may not be system specific is the bottom of the toolbox sliding off the bottom of the screen (768). The end result is .. I can only resize the toolbox horizontally, so the thing is just .. in the way of the whole screen height. - Secondly (and more importantly) it would seem that The GIMP is now enforcing that I use Ctrl + E to save my images, else it tries to get me to use XCF format. The problem with XCF format (for me at least) is that not everyone I work with uses The GIMP, hence I never use the XCF format. My instant reaction with any program while working is to frequently use Ctrl + S to save my current file to it's current location without further intervention. So essentially this functionality is .. well, not consistent with any other piece of software I've seen in the last 25 years. Hi I spent lot of time here asking why "save as" and "save" normal functions are now unavailable in Gimp. My conclusion: this new Gimp behaviour prevents newbies, to loose their work. For other people, not only professional people: GIMP: Save/export clean plug-in (for those who don't like the GIMP 2.8 Save vs. Export separation) http://shallowsky.com/software/gimp-save/ A plug-in for those who still don't like the new Save/Export https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list/2012-August/msg00072.html Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] scanner works with linux
On 11/29/2012 02:15 PM, Gracia M. Littauer wrote: I know the Epson Stylus Photo 1400 it's 8 years old anyone recomend any newer good Epson scanner that work with linux? "Newer", why ? Epson perfection V750 (pro or not pro) is a very good scanner and it works perfectly with GNU/Linux Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] new page with tuto for installing Save/export clean plug-in
Hi Not a new plugin but explanations for installing it. "In GIMP 2.8, the developers changed the way you save files. "Save" is now used only for GIMP's native format, XCF (and compressed variants like .xcf.gz and .xcf.bz2). Other formats that may lose information on layers, fonts and other aspects of the edited image must be "Exported" rather than saved." http://shallowsky.com/software/gimp-save/ Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] gimp 2.8 export, after save as keeps old files name
On 11/19/2012 12:53 PM, realbezo wrote: Hello again, i also do not want to see a prompt for a new exporting name, but i expect from gimp exporting the "new" file ( which is created by "save as") with the "new file" name, because i think a file should be exported with its file name by default. I don't get why i would expect exporting a new file by defaul with an old or different file name, could anyone please enlighten me? May be, I'm wrong about your question... This link may be useful GIMP: Save/export clean plug-in (for those who don't like the GIMP 2.8 Save vs. Export separation) http://shallowsky.com/software/gimp-save/ -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] finding layers after file has been closed (.... so much for the new export/save methods)
On 11/19/2012 12:57 PM, Archie Arevalo wrote: /me points maderios to https://github.com/mskala/noxcf-gimp Thanks but I need a stable version Otherwise, I like and I need .xcf but only when I want and where I want. Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] finding layers after file has been closed (.... so much for the new export/save methods)
On 11/19/2012 12:36 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 3:33 PM, maderios wrote: The new gimp-2.8 save/export is is not made to work but is only useful for newbies. I still say that the user should have the possibility to choose because this new save/export is a cause of lost time. The amount of time you put into the defamation campaign is truly impressive :) I spent less time posting here than circumvent the problems of the new and crazy save/export. I think it scares away new users, it is not the goal... Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] finding layers after file has been closed (.... so much for the new export/save methods)
On 11/18/2012 10:06 PM, Jay Smith wrote: However, this is an excellent illustration that this "controversial" change in the save/export methods is not a perfect solution either. Hi everybody Using an editor software requires a minimum of knowledge. It's just like driving a car:look ahead, not behind, watch the road, watch the panel, etc... The new gimp-2.8 save/export is is not made to work but is only useful for newbies. I still say that the user should have the possibility to choose because this new save/export is a cause of lost time. Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Photoshop Alternatives
On 11/16/2012 10:10 PM, Lomantik wrote: I dont understand, sorry... Are you web designer or developer ? Greetings I'm sorry. I'm developer. I'm writing the code in PHP, JS, and other languages, markup themes. So I'm using psd files that becomes to me from designers. Thanks, I understand now. Regards -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Photoshop Alternatives
On 11/16/2012 01:26 AM, Michael Schumacher wrote: On 16.11.2012 01:15, Lomantik wrote: The PSD loader/saver isn't perfect and probably never will be. We need a new maintainer to fix all bugs and add more features. The code doesn't write itself. Can you tell me where can I fix this bugs. The place in the code. I'll create the fix. For exemple, colors bug fix. http://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/tree/plug-ins/file-psd I dont understand, sorry... Are you web designer or developer ? Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] multi-threaded Gimp
On 10/18/2012 09:05 PM, Jernej Simončič wrote: On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:47:56 +0200, maderios wrote: I have a Core I7 with 8 cpu. I noticed Gimp use only 1 cpu to save image. If you're talking about saving a file, there's not much that can be done - saving isn't something that can be parallelized. It's not only saving. When you save a .png, you compress it. Saving with Gimp is slow because it compress .png . Saving .xcf is very quick because no compression, I think... Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] multi-threaded Gimp
On 10/18/2012 07:10 PM, scl wrote: Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:47 PM, maderios wrote: Any solution about a multi-threaded Gimp ? Not in the stable version, sorry. What about the 'Number of processors' option in the Preferences/Environment dialog? Preferences/Environment processors to use 8 Regards -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] multi-threaded Gimp
On 10/18/2012 01:55 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:53 PM, maderios wrote: Not in the stable version, sorry. May be in the future ? Sure :) Thanks. So we wait... Regards -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] multi-threaded Gimp
Hi When saving png image (ex 4496 × 3000 pixels) Gimp is very slow. I have a Core I7 with 8 cpu. I noticed Gimp use only 1 cpu to save image. Any solution about a multi-threaded Gimp ? Best regards -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] xcf difficulty
On 10/15/2012 05:28 AM, Liam R E Quin wrote: On Sun, 2012-10-14 at 23:01 -0400, Brittany Bug wrote: I want to know if i can save my pic's i create as jpg so i can download them elsewhere Use file->export to do that. Note that jpeg is "lossy" - you should save as xcf or xcf.gz, and then also export as jpeg, and that way you can edit the xcf file if you later need to make changes. You don't need .xcf at all... You may convert your .jpeg to.png PNG is much better than .xcf when no needing layers : it's not lossy, You can compress a .png to 9 Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] enlarging tiny photo
On 09/29/2012 05:54 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: On 09/28/2012 07:14 PM, Patricia wrote: Took pic over Skype. Other person involved was using a mobile phone so pic is very small. Trying to enlarge but it becomes fuzzy and pixilates. Any way to enlarge and get a decent photo. Trying to enlarge a picture by too big a percentage will result in it going pixelly and/or fuzzy. You didn't state the size of the original or how big you want to make it. I'd suggest you try liquid rescale. "I'd suggest you try liquid rescale. Then you get sharped and deformed edges... I prefer gliv + screenshot + sharpen -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] enlarging tiny photo
On 09/28/2012 07:14 PM, Patricia wrote: Took pic over Skype. Other person involved was using a mobile phone so pic is very small. Trying to enlarge but it becomes fuzzy and pixilates. Any way to enlarge and get a decent photo. I am using Gimp 2.6. My method: I open the file with Gliv (opengl viewer), I zoom it with Gliv (not too much, you dont have to see pixels) then I take a screenshot, I save it as .png. It works well. Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Converting Screen Shots
On 09/21/2012 01:55 AM, crouching_ant wrote: Hi list, I'm a newbie and have the following problem: I have about 2500 screen shots in png-format. I need to convert them all into b/w-pictures. How could this be done easily? Furthermore (but I guess that will be the issue in another list), I will have to run all these screenshots through an OCR-program. So what would be the best output-format for these screen shots? (And yes: If someone has an idea how I could run these screenshots through an OCR-program, I'd be very happy) Cheers Paul You can use Digikam http://scribblesandsnaps.com/2011/03/02/batch-process-photos-in-digikam/ Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints
On 09/20/2012 11:32 AM, Simon Budig wrote: maderios (mader...@gmail.com) wrote: I just think that every user can contribute to the development not only for bugs but also for improvements. Every user can try (assuming that the project actually provides a feedback channel, which is not a requirement of OSS/FOSS) to suggest stuff to the developers. A good feedback channel example here: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=enlightenment-users&max_rows=25&style=ultimate&viewmonth=201209 E17 project http://www.enlightenment.org/ Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints
On 09/19/2012 05:44 PM, Stephen Allen wrote: On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 04:35:06PM +0200, maderios wrote: Print shops ask for png, jpeg or tiff, not psd Maybe your consumer quick printer, not offset print shops that do professional work. They want usually, PDF and/or PSD. PSD not being their first choice. Yep, and that's their right... why are you pushing so hard to keep them with a software that is not targeting them as it's core demographic? Especially when it's not a commercial project where anyone makes money from? Strange and interesting point of view... Your message to these people is "go out". Welcome in the Happy World of Free Software... Happily, you're not representative. Free Software philosophy is opening, not closing. About GNU/Linux philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar I hope that gimp does not become a cathedral You're quite out of your depth of knowledge. You seem to think you have some sort of right to get what you want. You don't, OSS/FOSS doesn't work like that, unless you're the one developing. FOSS development isn't a democracy. I just think that every user can contribute to the development not only for bugs but also for improvements. Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] [Request] Do not confirm closing if unsaved image was exported/overwrited ?
On 09/14/2012 08:37 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Nik Omul wrote: GIMP does not stand out as the only graphic editor that does it. Krita, Blender, Synfig, Inkscape, MyPaint - Nope. Krita and MyPaint don't do that. MyPaint has a Preferences setting that configures default file format for saving. Krita just saves to whatever you choose and doesn't warn about possible loss of data. About Krita I dont see any problem about this behaviour. This is a lot better because it makes you free, it gives you more options. Example 1 You decide to create a picture with layers. You create necessarily an .xcf file and you save it as file.xcf. Better, its my working method: you can save it as file-1.xcf, then file-2.xcf, then file-3.xcf, etc... You can go back when you want. Example 2 You decide to edit a .png, improve color, luminosity, etc... No need layers. You open it, make the changes et you save it as .png And if you talk to Krita developers, they'll tell you it's their design choice. I noticed that KDE developers are pragmatic.They try to free users, too. Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] [Request] Do not confirm closing if unsaved image was exported/overwrited ?
On 09/14/2012 05:25 PM, Richard Gitschlag wrote: > Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 20:28:55 -0700 > From: nik-o...@yandex.ru > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] [Request] Do not confirm closing if unsaved image was exported/overwrited ? > > It has always eluded me trying to understand why so many users didn't take > Save/Export changes well. Like it or not, what file formats are available under the "Save" dialog says a lot about your program's core purpose. Somebody said "GIMP is no longer an 'image' editor, it's now an 'xcf' editor" - I have to agree. Hi This plug-in save-export-clean.py works well https://github.com/akkana/gimp-plugins/ "A plug-in for those who still don't like the new Save/Export" https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list/2012-August/msg00072.html Tell me if you got problem Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Print shops & file formats
On 09/13/2012 04:32 AM, Steve Kinney wrote On 09/12/2012 09:50 AM, jfrazie...@nc.rr.com wrote: [...] Ask how many print shops support psd files but not xcf? Hi This is not THE problem. They accept all other formats, png, tiff, etc I would bet that number would be> 20:1 and one way to change that would be to try to push the xcf usage among professional artists I agree with you but the Gimp team target is the opposite. Le last change concerning "save save as" function in Gimp-2.8 is not ergonomic at all. This is done so that amateur users do not lose work. I heard to say here that some people don't save their work... So the Gimp developers separate the function "save save as" into two functions according to the file type, .xcf or not xcf. I think that Gimp will stay a software for amateurs. Greetings -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints
On 09/12/2012 06:55 PM, Chris Mohler wrote: On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 11:38 AM, maderios wrote: The first rule to know when editing an image is to save your work as you go along. When you drive a car you look ahead, not behind, you watch the road... It's the same principle : security. If people knew that, this annoying thread would not exist. You know, you're supposed to keep an eye out all around you - not just straight ahead. You have tunnel vision. I do hope I'm not on the road with you ;) People have to observe this rule then they'll be happy with the standard "save& save as" behavior, like in Gimp-2.6 and all other editors, which allows to work quickly and normally with all kinds of file. What rule? WTF is so hard about exporting instead of saving? I'm a little unclear on how you're being prevented from working "quickly and normally". Some kind soul has already written a plug-in that will save you the one measly extra keystroke if you want to work destructively. To read all of your posts one would think that you'd be so busy "professionally editing" that you'd not have the time to continuously post rants about behavior that WILL NOT CHANGE. If you spent 1% of the energy spent ranting here and instead learned to adapt your workflow to the new behavior you'd be better off. Grr... I swore I'd ignore these useless threads :( Me too Regards. -- Maderios "Art is meant to disturb. Science reassures." "L'art est fait pour troubler. La science rassure" (Georges Braque) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints
On 09/12/2012 05:37 PM, Ken Warner wrote: It's not logical to save a whole session if all one does is touch up a jpeg file. On the other hand, for people who do complicated image building over many sessions, it makes sense to save a project and in that case it would be logical to have an option that allows gimp to open the previous project on restart. That would prevent work loss. The first rule to know when editing an image is to save your work as you go along. When you drive a car you look ahead, not behind, you watch the road... It's the same principle : security. If people knew that, this annoying thread would not exist. People have to observe this rule then they'll be happy with the standard "save & save as" behavior, like in Gimp-2.6 and all other editors, which allows to work quickly and normally with all kinds of file. Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints
On 09/12/2012 03:50 PM, jfrazie...@nc.rr.com wrote: I use .xcf files but my friends, my family members and most people, I think, don't use .xcf. Yes, I think you have just about FINALLY hit the point. I am NOT a developer for GIMP, but I am enthusiastically in support of this new change so that I CANNOT loose my multi-layer composition without explicit consent as could (and did a few times) in previous versions of GIMP.I am speaking for myself here, but I would say "GIMP wants people to use GIMP's native file format". There are a large number of reasons for this, but saving multi-layer compositions is a key one. I suspect another reason is to attempt to force recognition by print shops. Ask how many print shops support psd files but not xcf? I would bet that number would be> 20:1 and one way to change that would be to try to push the xcf usage among professional artists who use such print shops far more than the average joe blow on the street. Print shops ask for png, jpeg or tiff, not psd They need an image editor, not an xcf editor. And these same joe blow users are NOT the intended audience of GIMP as has been stated likeoh... 500 times or so... People will leave the world of free software to turn to proprietary. Yep, and that's their right... why are you pushing so hard to keep them with a software that is not targeting them as it's core demographic? Especially when it's not a commercial project where anyone makes money from? Strange and interesting point of view... Your message to these people is "go out". Welcome in the Happy World of Free Software... Happily, you're not representative. Free Software philosophy is opening, not closing. About GNU/Linux philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar I hope that gimp does not become a cathedral Gimp is no longer the "universal Swiss army knife " of image editing, it's a fact. Umm... what are you smoking? The change in question did not REMOVE any functionality for editing images. It did not REMOVE any functionality as to what format files could be saved/exported to. It only moved functionality to create a CLEAR distinction between "Saving" to it's native format, and "Exporting" to every other format. More importantly as mentioned several hundred times, it reduced the code complexity AND(as much as possible barring power loss or computer crashes) now prevents one from accidentally loosing a multi-layer composition(which is the most important "feature") Do you really use it ? Ergonomically speaking, Gimp is now an xcf editor. Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints
On 09/12/2012 01:38 PM, Psiweapon wrote: The problem lies with users who DON'T need the XCF file awesomeness AT ALL, such as me, as I'm made to jump through hoops to save a .PNG I just opened. Well, I can use overwrite, but that doesn't even have a keyboard shortcut. Hi I use .xcf files but my friends, my family members and most people, I think, don't use .xcf. They need an image editor, not an xcf editor. People will leave the world of free software to turn to proprietary. Gimp is no longer the "universal Swiss army knife " of image editing, it's a fact. Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints
On 09/12/2012 12:30 PM, Ryan Stark wrote: I see lots of complaints about the Gimp save and export. I've been using Gimp for ages with this feature. It is entirely logical and I don't understand the complaining. In a DAW (digital audio workstation application) you save the whole project as a session. You export the final file as mixdown in MP3 or whatever other format and you can import audio files into the project. It's similar logic in Gimp and makes total sense. Lots of apps work with this kind of method even when not as crucial as it is with DAW software. A "DAW" with no name "Lots of apps..." Which apps ? Fuzzy... Most software, digikam, phot$p, firefox, avidemux, libreoffice, doesnt work like gimp but with standard way. Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On 09/12/2012 10:16 AM, Simon Budig wrote: maderios (mader...@gmail.com) wrote: May be but you have already the choice with "window-single mode" or not. Then you open edit -> preferences and here, incredible thing, you can discover about thousand settings ! I joke, you know that. True, we know that we have way too many configuration settings. Unfortunately adding to these doesn't help with this problem. I don't understand. What's the problem ? You can keep a default conf or change a few things, or change many things... We have to stay free. A good softw model is VLC : tools -> preferences -> show settings -> simple tools -> preferences -> show settings -> all Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On 09/12/2012 01:52 AM, Ofnuts wrote: On 09/11/2012 08:38 AM, maderios wrote: Hi I'm not developper but I think it is certainly possible to give the choice in the configuration. Yes, but it's a bad idea. Having all the people using more or less the same Gimp is beneficial. The same tutorials work everywhere, and the people answering questions in forums don't have to makes guesses about what customizations your Gimp has been subjected to (the current situation with users split between 2.6 and 2.8 already makes many answers a lot more verbose than necessary). And developers tend to make changes around the standard version, so your personal config can eventually conflict with a future version. Hi May be but you have already the choice with "window-single mode" or not. Then you open edit -> preferences and here, incredible thing, you can discover about thousand settings ! I joke, you know that. "The same tutorials work everywhere", yes. I can imagine a future preferences box (Gimp-3.0 ?) with new settings: Image saving -> standard mode Image saving -> .xcf mode Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On 09/11/2012 11:49 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Maarten De Munck wrote: If you are really really annoyed by this behaviour, use 2.6, start a fork, ask/pay someone to start a fork for you, use another image editor, ..., No need to. There already is a fork. https://github.com/mskala/noxcf-gimp Author's blog "In few words: mainline GIMP is an XCF editor, not an image editor. My version is an image editor." http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/242 Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On 09/11/2012 11:45 AM, Maarten De Munck wrote: maderios schreef op di 11-09-2012 om 08:52 [+0200]: 1. This change doesn't remove functionality. It only moves it. The problem is that gimp arbitrarily separates the types of files: .xcf and others. This does not happen like this in the work. We work indifferently on all file types. Maybe _you_ do, but I (and at least some other users) make a clear distinction between XCF, which stores the image and my manipulations on it (layers, masks, selections), making it possible to change some operations afterwards (if for example some details are lost in a certain printing process or if I just change my mind about how the image has to look in a series or ...) and standard image formats (which only store the results of these operations). It's really very simple: Photoshop / Saving images Save a file Use the Save command to save changes to the current file or the Save As command to save changes to a different file. http://help.adobe.com/en_US/photoshop/cs/using/WSfd1234e1c4b69f30ea53e41001031ab64-7783a.html Set file saving preferences http://help.adobe.com/en_US/photoshop/cs/using/WSfd1234e1c4b69f30ea53e41001031ab64-7783a.html#WSfd1234e1c4b69f30ea53e41001031ab64-7720a Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On 09/11/2012 09:29 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 11:11 AM, maderios wrote: Reread what I wrote above. Do not distort what I meant. Thanks... Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of the word "arbitrary"? http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arbitrary arbitrary = "depending on individual discretion" It's the case... Developers know their job developers. They do not listen to what happens on the side of people who work with images. They stay with their own "arbitrary" ideas. This vertical organization is a general problem in the world. Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On 09/11/2012 09:01 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: May I ask why you keep making incorrect statements for which you apologize later anyway? Hi Reread what I wrote above. Do not distort what I meant. Thanks... Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On 09/10/2012 11:30 PM, Daniel Hauck wrote: I too have ranted about this topic. Not to get into it again, I would like to point out a couple of things: 1. This change doesn't remove functionality. It only moves it. The problem is that gimp arbitrarily separates the types of files: .xcf and others. This does not happen like this in the work. We work indifferently on all file types. 2. This is not a show-stopper in any sense of the word. and sorta 3. Someone has created some sort of script which restores the original behavior. I have not tried it and I probably won't. No, it doesnt restores the original behavior it's different Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On 09/10/2012 07:09 PM, Simon Budig wrote: Ken Warner (kwarner...@verizon.net) wrote: And your insistence that your design decisions are right even while the user community tells you otherwise is strictly amateur. See, here you're disregarding my assertion that we got a lot of positive feedback, Alexandre even pointed to a small part of it for e.g. you to read up on it. The picture just is not as clear-cut as you seem to believe. We had a workflow in Gimp that actually caused people to lose their work. We fixed it. There is no way we're going to reintroduce it, Hi I'm not developper but I think it is certainly possible to give the choice in the configuration. just due to some people reacting negatively to the change, This is not the subject. I like changes, I hate habits, they are unproductive. while simultaneously questioning our common sense. Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On 09/10/2012 06:57 PM, Simon Budig wrote: Ken Warner (kwarner...@verizon.net) wrote: On 9/10/2012 9:32 AM, Simon Budig wrote: maderios (mader...@gmail.com) wrote: Because you're not dealing with reality. This is the problem of amateurs who create software professional vocation. See? This is what I was referring to. Hi Just because the English doesn't meet your standards doesn't mean the viewpoint is invalid. And maybe your refusal to see the thought in the message is the root of the discord. Sorry for being too terse. But I was not referring to the language (although I don't understand the "vocation" word there). Sorry for my bad english... For me "professional vocation" meant "professional use". I was referring to the insinuation that we - as the developers - are just amateurs not dealing with reality and hence do things the wrong way. To be an amateur is a good thing. Great artists, painters, musicians were amateurs but I still think that the the need is not the same when you work all day as "professional" or working occasionally as "amateur". When you work all day, you are much more sensitive to some details that complicate your life. This "bad new save export function" is an important detail. Yes, I do take offense in that. I apologize Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On 09/10/2012 06:32 PM, Simon Budig wrote: maderios (mader...@gmail.com) wrote: Because you're not dealing with reality. This is the problem of amateurs who create software professional vocation. See? This is what I was referring to. Historically, tools and software are improved by professionals, amateurs benefit. Doing the opposite is a mistake. Look at what happens in the image world industry. Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On 09/10/2012 06:19 PM, Simon Budig wrote: maderios (mader...@gmail.com) wrote: Developers gentlemen, thank you for listening to the users who actually use Gimp to work. Listen to their needs. Practice, there is all that counts and not the theoretical ideas completely divorced from reality. Hi We got a lot of negative feedback, unfortunately most of it was incoherent write-only-rambling, which makes it hard to listen to. If you're masochistic, go to the gimp-devel archives and read the threads on that topic. We also got a lot of positive feedback on the change. It seems we're not really "completely divorced from reality" with the change. For now we're sticking to the new behaviour. Sorry if you don't like that. Because you're not dealing with reality. This is the problem of amateurs who create software professional vocation. I know it's hard to admit, but it is a fact... Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
Hi State of mind ... I am willing to change things if it is an improvement but if the change causes a regression, I do not see the point unless I was masochistic. For people to understand: I spent a lot of time experimenting on my Linux system new programs, new functions, with bugs. It was for a noble cause, to move forward, to try to advance. To return to Gimp, new features "save and export" interfere with work and must return to standard Gimp-2.6 and all other publishers. Developers gentlemen, thank you for listening to the users who actually use Gimp to work. Listen to their needs. Practice, there is all that counts and not the theoretical ideas completely divorced from reality. Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] File format question
On 09/09/2012 05:05 PM, Psiweapon wrote: Hey there, I'm a newcomer, although I've been using Gimp for some years now (nothing advanced though) Exactly WHY or WHO the HELL thought it was a good idea to leave common image formats (.png, .gif, etc.) out of the "save" menu in 2.8 Was this decision taken because of legal issues, politicky crap, too much vodka, or what the fuck? Could anybody enlighten me, please? Hi You can get a plugin to resolve "bad" save function save-export-clean.py here: https://github.com/akkana/gimp-plugins/ https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list/2012-August/msg00072.html Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save, Save As and Export separated?
On 08/21/2012 03:12 PM, Alessia wrote: I'm really asking because I'm not pro and I don't want to became but I'm, say, an amateur that us, for now, GImp in quite basic way ( or better in a purpose oriented way) and this thing of the exporting behavior is quite annoying ( to me) especially because there no choice to change it, but might be not the only problem. Hi Preventing the user from choosing takes away Gimp from the professional world. Moreover, in this case, it's the same problem for amateur and professionnal. I said, many times here and somewhere else, this new Gimp behaviour concerning "save" function is a regression. To be positive, I propose Gimp gives the choice with two possibilities concerning "save" : the (normal) Gimp-2.6 way and the recent Gimp-2.8 way for those who like it. Everyone will agree, no more war... This becomes very annoying to the reputation of Gimp. Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save, Save As and Export separated?
On 08/20/2012 10:30 AM, Paul Naude wrote: Hi Gimpers I only recently upgraded to 2.8 from 2.6 and was wondering if I am the only one missing the option to edit the file extension in the SAVE form which basically allowed you to Save, Save Copy, Save As or Export to any format from the same form? I also found it strange that if I now open a JPG file (or drag into GIMP), I can't save changes (to the JPG) directly (it wants to save to native Gimp format), so I again first have to go to Export instead! I am wondering why this was incorporated, and if it's going to stay, is there a setting I can set to work like I am used to (and find much faster and more flexible)? Hi Your comment is surprising. Sorry, I joke Yes, Gimp has now a strange behaviour concerning save and save as. You may install this plug-in https://github.com/akkana/gimp-plugins/blob/master/save-export-clean.py http://www.gimpusers.com/forums/gimp-user/14746-a-plug-in-for-those-who-still-don-t-like-the-new-save-export It solves the problem, partially. Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] A plug-in for those who still don't like the new Save/Export
On 08/20/2012 02:15 AM, Chris Mohler wrote: Ah. My mistake. I'm adapting to the new save/export workflow, so haven't needed to install your plug-in and didn't quite grasp what it was doing Hi Explanation: this plugin simplifies the life of people who use Gimp as a working tool. Best regards. -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] A plug-in for those who still don't like the new Save/Export
On 08/17/2012 09:55 PM, Partha Bagchi wrote: Maderios See if this script helps you. An old script written by Rob Antonishen: http://ffaat.pointclark.net/incoming/scripts/save_and_export.scm Hi The Akkana script https://github.com/akkana/gimp-plugins/blob/master/save-export-clean.py works well now. Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] A plug-in for those who still don't like the new Save/Export
On 08/17/2012 09:24 PM, Akkana Peck wrote: maderios writes: Hi Thanks for this post. This plug-in doesn't work for me (Debian Wheezy) I put it in /usr/lib/gimp/2.0/plug-ins/ chmod 755 What is it doing, or not doing? "Doesn't work" doesn't give me much to go on to figure out what needs fixing. ...Akkana Hi It means I can't see any change in the menu. I can't see any change concerning save and save as. Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] A plug-in for those who still don't like the new Save/Export
Hi Thanks for this post. This plug-in doesn't work for me (Debian Wheezy) I put it in /usr/lib/gimp/2.0/plug-ins/ chmod 755 Regards Maderios On 08/11/2012 10:39 PM, Akkana Peck wrote: Yet another thread about Save vs. Export this morning. I guess it's time to post this. Early on in the discussions, I posted something saying, basically, I don't like the new model either, but I'm going to work with it for a while and see if I continue to feel that way. But if I do, it's easy enough to write a plug-in that does what you want Save to do, perhaps involving gimp-file-save, and bind it to Ctrl-S. Well, actually I've found it surprisingly easy to adapt to using ctrl-E instead of ctrl-S. It's only a minor irritation that I have to ignore the "you have unsaved images" when I quit (and that I can no longer use it to tell me whether I *really* have unsaved images). But obviously a lot of people on the mailing lists are having a lot more trouble adapting. So yesterday I looked into the plug-in idea. And found out it was trivial. Aside from registering the plug-in, all you really need are two lines of Python: pdb.gimp_file_save(img, drawable, img.filename, img.filename) pdb.gimp_image_clean_all(img) The first line saves the image back to its current filename. (The gimp-file-save PDB call still handles all types, not just XCF.) The second line marks the image as clean, so you don't see an "unsaved image" warning when you quit. Since these are both PDB calls, you could also do them in Script-Fu. Of course, I couldn't just stop there -- I wanted it to handle images that didn't have filenames yet. For those, I couldn't use the standard GIMP save-as dialog, because as far as I can tell, there's no way to call that dialog from a plug-in. So it uses the standard GTK save-as dialog, and it starts in whatever directory is most prevalent in your currently open images. The dialog part isn't doable in Script-Fu, I don't think (which is why I used Python). Anyway, the Python plug-in is available here: https://github.com/akkana/gimp-plugins/blob/master/save-export-clean.py It shows up as File->Save/Export clean. Lousy name. Feel free to suggest a better one. Use at your own risk. I haven't tested it much. It WILL OVERWRITE the image file, without any warnings or confirmation dialogs. If you decide you like it, you can bind it to Ctrl-S. Or whatever. Now can we move on and talk about gegl graphs and improving the brush UI? :-) Alexandre Prokoudine writes (in response to the latest save-export thread): By the way, what does it take to make you less sour a more broad-minded and positive thinking? Would a mug of cocoa and a bun do the trick, perhaps? That sounds lovely, Alexandre. I think I'll go make some. ...Akkana ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On 08/14/2012 09:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Ken Warner wrote: 1) Well then, if I open a jpg file and make layers and paths etc. and want to save my work, why is it anathema to export it as an XCF file? Gmail tells me there are 58 deleted messages in this conversation (yes). That is, after 58 messages you still don't understand the key difference between a native file format and a lossy file format. I think it's a call to close the conversation and kindly ask you to start learning essential principles of digital imaging before reopening the discussion. Only "a native file format and a lossy file format" ? Hum (in french, sorry) Native for who ? I presume .xcf is native for you. Not for me if I start with a png, smaller than a xcf. An image file is not "native" or lossy Ex Lossy format: jpeg, gif Ex Non lossy: png, tiff xcf People are free to work with jpeg or gif. If they want to loss some qualities, they can do do it if they know (or not, why not) what they do. May be, they want to experiment, may be they'll find new forms, nobody knows Jpeg is destructive, may be it's interesting do destroy picture ? Artist is free. Technics are made to be forgotten, otherwise, no Art Best regards Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
On 08/14/2012 07:05 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote: Von: Alexandre Prokoudine On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:16 PM, maderios wrote: Both of you, may I suggest that you move your private conversation to private mail? In my opinion, there's no further insight that can be gained for the other readers, although the quite civilized discussion is certainly worthwhile by itself. Hi Michael We're talking about Gimp in the gimp-user-list. Absolutely "normal" Best regards Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
On 08/14/2012 05:31 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:16 PM, maderios wrote: Hi Alexandre Really ? In 1987, "digital photography" didn't exist... We (photographers) were using color slides, and the contrast was a big problem... Easier with negative but useless for commercial use. Then, 1990 years, some colleagues began using P$$op for editing and archiving their photos. It was the beginning. "Thomas renamed his program Photoshop and worked out a short-term deal with scanner manufacturer Barneyscan to distribute copies of the program with a slide scanner" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop#Early_history Your ability to open and read WIkipedia is commendable, but I strongly suggest that you read the full history that I linked to :) Photographers weren't the reason to create Photoshop. It came next. Thanks for the link The first reason was professionnal, not amateur (like Gimp) then, soon, professional photography editing. Recently, amateur people discovered and started using pho$$op. To improve Gimp, developpers should listen to professional people. It's a chance About democracy and Gnu/Linux software developpement: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/08/msg00844.html Regards Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
On 08/14/2012 01:39 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:24 PM, maderios wrote: 2)I'm not complaining about Gimp, Gimp is a very good software. I'm just saying the new Gimp-2.8 behavior (concerning save and save as ) is an error. This error takes away Gimp-2.8 of the world of the professionals. Except professionals tend to like this change, but yeah, what do we know? :) It's always the professionals who pull tools upward and not amateurs... Example : Ph$$op was created for professional photographers and with professional photographers. Um, no. It wasn't :) Hi Alexandre Really ? In 1987, "digital photography" didn't exist... We (photographers) were using color slides, and the contrast was a big problem... Easier with negative but useless for commercial use. Then, 1990 years, some colleagues began using P$$op for editing and archiving their photos. It was the beginning. "Thomas renamed his program Photoshop and worked out a short-term deal with scanner manufacturer Barneyscan to distribute copies of the program with a slide scanner" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop#Early_history Regards Maderios PS: I used Cinepaint in the past https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinePaint http://www.cinepaint.org/ http://www.cinepaint.org/more/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/cinepaint/files/CinePaint/ ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On 08/14/2012 01:01 PM, Ofnuts wrote: On 08/13/2012 11:29 PM, maderios wrote: On 08/13/2012 09:45 PM, Ofnuts wrote: We see the reasons behind the change May you explain here the reasons of the change concerning save and save as ? Before: - Creates complex images with several layers, paths, masks - Wants a PNG to show Mr Customer - Does Save as... PNG - Exits -> lost the last changes in layers, paths, masks So somewhere you need some way to tell Gimp that when you save as PNG (or JPG/GIF/TIIF) you aren't really saving. Now: - Creates complex images with several layers, paths, masks - Wants a PNG to show Mr Customer - Does Export as... PNG - Exits -> Gimp complains image not saved -> No loss of layers, paths, masks Hi Ofnuts You don't answer my question about the reasons of the change concerning save and save as. I simply try to understand and it's not easy because the change is not coherent. It is strange that evolution that leads to slow down workflow is presented as a progress ... I started my Linux and Gimp user life in 1999: Redhat, Mandrake, Suse, Mandriva, Fedora, Debian now, the best ... I don't like desktops like Gnome, Kde, Xfce. I use E17, very light and nice desktop (yes it is), quite a long time http://www.enlightenment.org/ I had time and I take time to train me to adapt but I can't adapt to waste my time with this incoherent behavior of "save" in Gimp-2.8. My job is the priority, so back to Gimp-2.6. I have time to wait.. Perhaps we'll open a "wishlist" bug ? I don't know Hi Ofnuts With the previous behavior, if you "save" in a non-XCF file format, then all you save is a flattened image on which further work is near impossible. Yes, but you have the choice. It's the most important. Editing images requires some attention And since you have "saved" the image, you can quit Gimp without updating the XCF of disk and you lost some of your work. Many people have been burnt by this. Because they don't pay attention and don't save their work ! Another use case is working on a complex image, and producing proof images (PNG/JPG) at various stages. WIth the current behavior, you change the "base name" of the image, further saves clobers the proof images. So you have to remember to resave as XCF. The current behavior makes it more obvious when you save to the XCF and when you produce some other format. So now Gimp comes with a safety belt/hard hat. I never lost any image when editing with Gimp during 13 years. You have to save files according to the progress of the work, of course. What you call "safety belt/hard hat" is useless for me and it slows down workflow. Regards Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
