Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On 14/05/2020 04:40, Christopher Hunter via GLLUG wrote: That's Virgin "engineers"! That's virgin' on the ridiculous... MeJ -- In accordance with UK Government directives due to the Covid-19 situation, our office is temporarily closed. All staff are working from home. These arrangements will continue in accordance with UK Government advice. Please do not send any correspondence or cheques to our office as these cannot currently be dealt with, seen, or paid in. All communication will be via phone or email. It is important, both for most rapid response and in order that all staff can respond, that you raise all issues via our Support Desk at: supp...@stabilys.com If you need help with working from home please contact us using the above methods. Stabilys Ltdwww.stabilys.com 244 Kilburn Lane LONDON W10 4BA 0845 838 5370 -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On 13/05/2020 13:23, Marco van Beek via GLLUG wrote: On 13/05/2020 13:20, John Winters via GLLUG wrote: P.S. I've found in the past that the best way to get one of the slot-in plates is to ply a friendly BT technician with tea and chocolate digestives (plain chocolate obviously). WARNING: Do not feed them after midnight. They turn into Virgin Engineers... That's Virgin "engineers"! FTFY -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On 13/05/2020 17:30, Jan van Bergen via GLLUG wrote: On 2020-05-13 17:20, James Courtier-Dutton via GLLUG wrote: On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 16:14, Marco van Beek via GLLUG wrote: > ...MUST NOT (rfc2119) > > I bet you know what BSI 0 is as well :-) I once worked on a bid where the customer said we had to be 100% compliant to all the requirements. It was valued at about £10Million. So, I was working on the compliance statement, checking that our product and solution would be fully compliant and identifying what development work needed to be done, when I came across RFC 1149 on page 53 of the requirements. That RFC 1149 is surprising difficult to implement in software so we responded NC to it. Apparently, we were the only supplier that responded with a 99% compliance SOC. We won the bid. :-) That is a standard trick, when we created RFQs in a previous company we always put in a few April 1st RFCs. At least it would tell you who actually read the RFQ. And these were not small £10Million contracts either :) Were you by any chance inspired by the Van Halen contract with the m clause? ;-) -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On Wednesday, 13 May 2020 13:21:50 BST Marco van Beek via GLLUG wrote: > With so few people having / using POTS telephones these days, it is > really hard to explain to people that the quality of the line affected > the quality of the data. Most of the time when I turn up to fault-find a > xDSL line, I start by plugging a £10 handset into the line, and then > have to tell them it is a voice fault and we need to report it to the > telephone company, not the broadband company. They usually just don't > get it. In the days when telephones had to make the best of sometimes poor quality copper connections, the line quality was often tweaked to get an improved voice quality, but we had a much more complex "fairy fingers box" to extract the best possible result for broadcast use, and we had to remove any pre- equalisation first. Neither would be much use for broadband data because equalisation could increase higher audio frequencies, then produce a hard cut just above. On the other hand, engineering control lines were often random pairs strung together without amplification, so you really had to shout if you were trying to speak over very long distances. The best music quality lines used a "phantom" connection with each leg of the pair sitting on the transformer centre tap of an ordinary telephone pair. -- Chris Bell Website http://chrisbell.org.uk -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On 2020-05-13 17:20, James Courtier-Dutton via GLLUG wrote: On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 16:14, Marco van Beek via GLLUG wrote: > ...MUST NOT (rfc2119) > > I bet you know what BSI 0 is as well :-) I once worked on a bid where the customer said we had to be 100% compliant to all the requirements. It was valued at about £10Million. So, I was working on the compliance statement, checking that our product and solution would be fully compliant and identifying what development work needed to be done, when I came across RFC 1149 on page 53 of the requirements. That RFC 1149 is surprising difficult to implement in software so we responded NC to it. Apparently, we were the only supplier that responded with a 99% compliance SOC. We won the bid. :-) That is a standard trick, when we created RFQs in a previous company we always put in a few April 1st RFCs. At least it would tell you who actually read the RFQ. And these were not small £10Million contracts either :) -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 16:14, Marco van Beek via GLLUG wrote: > > > > > ...MUST NOT (rfc2119) > > > > > I bet you know what BSI 0 is as well :-) > I once worked on a bid where the customer said we had to be 100% compliant to all the requirements. It was valued at about £10Million. So, I was working on the compliance statement, checking that our product and solution would be fully compliant and identifying what development work needed to be done, when I came across RFC 1149 on page 53 of the requirements. That RFC 1149 is surprising difficult to implement in software so we responded NC to it. Apparently, we were the only supplier that responded with a 99% compliance SOC. We won the bid. :-) -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
...MUST NOT (rfc2119) I bet you know what BSI 0 is as well :-) -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On 13/05/2020 13:21, Marco van Beek via GLLUG wrote: With so few people having / using POTS telephones these days, it is really hard to explain to people that the quality of the line affected the quality of the data. Among my older clients they've always understood it when analogised to a dog whistle - dogs can hear it, humans can't; modems can hear the broadband, voice users can't. But because 'computers talk that much faster', the quality of line needs to be that much higher. ELI5 but I don't like to fix that which isn't broke. > Most of the time when I turn up to fault-find a > xDSL line, I start by plugging a £10 handset into the line, and then > have to tell them it is a voice fault and we need to report it to the > telephone company, not the broadband company. I'm pretty sure there's still that thing going on where the bell-heads say any problem must be the net-heads fault. Only limited success telling clients they MUST NOT (rfc2119) mention the broadband problem when they report the voice 'problem'. I've also seen many broadband problems mysteriously correct after the online tests have found "no problems detected" making me think that's probably tosh. A cheap analogue fix is always better than even an expensive digital fix. :-) Absolut Truth! -- Alistair Mann -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On Wednesday, 13 May 2020 13:21:50 BST Marco van Beek via GLLUG wrote: > With so few people having / using POTS telephones these days, it is > really hard to explain to people that the quality of the line affected > the quality of the data. Most of the time when I turn up to fault-find a > xDSL line, I start by plugging a £10 handset into the line, and then > have to tell them it is a voice fault and we need to report it to the > telephone company, not the broadband company. They usually just don't > get it. > > My rule of thumb is that with HiFi, cheap digital is better than cheap > analogue, and expensive analogue is better than expensive digital, but > in data transmission systems it is the other way round. A cheap analogue > fix is always better than even an expensive digital fix. > > :-) I have not seen an intermediate panel, only the straight replacement. The original NTE5 box only has termination components in the rear section, and there is no isolation from the single BT Telephone socket on the front. The original lower front panel is designed only as an extension, so that an engineer can undo two screws and unplug the entire internal wiring, together with any internal faults, and give direct access to the incoming line and its termination via a standard BT outlet socket behind. The straight replacement panel only replaces some of the termination components, the data is taken direct from the incoming line, then the replacement filter components are inserted only into the telephone outlet. The original front panel will have normally unused IDC connections behind for internal wiring connections in parallel with the standard front BT output socket, the replacement may also have an additional pair connected before the replacement filter components specifically as an alternative for the front data connection. Most original boxes will not have wiring to the rear of the lower panel but may have multiple adapters connected at the front. -- Chris Bell Website http://chrisbell.org.uk -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On 13/05/2020 13:20, John Winters via GLLUG wrote: P.S. I've found in the past that the best way to get one of the slot-in plates is to ply a friendly BT technician with tea and chocolate digestives (plain chocolate obviously). WARNING: Do not feed them after midnight. They turn into Virgin Engineers... -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
With so few people having / using POTS telephones these days, it is really hard to explain to people that the quality of the line affected the quality of the data. Most of the time when I turn up to fault-find a xDSL line, I start by plugging a £10 handset into the line, and then have to tell them it is a voice fault and we need to report it to the telephone company, not the broadband company. They usually just don't get it. My rule of thumb is that with HiFi, cheap digital is better than cheap analogue, and expensive analogue is better than expensive digital, but in data transmission systems it is the other way round. A cheap analogue fix is always better than even an expensive digital fix. :-) -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On 13/05/2020 12:29, Chris Bell via GLLUG wrote: [snip] Undo the two screws holding the lower panel and remove it. You may need to transfer any telephone wiring originally connected direct to the back to the replacement panel, there should be similar IDC connection points on the new one, then fix the new panel in its place. There will be one socket for the modem plus one standard BT telephone socket on the new one to replace the original single telephone outlet. Interesting - I hadn't seen this kind of replacement plate before, but it seems less well designed than the standard unit. Some careful thought seems to have gone into the one of which I posted pictures earlier. If you have extension wiring run from your NTE5 you don't even need to disconnect it - there's a slot in the new intermediate plate to let that slide in and then the original faceplate can be replaced. Is there an advantage to the one which you're suggesting? John P.S. I've found in the past that the best way to get one of the slot-in plates is to ply a friendly BT technician with tea and chocolate digestives (plain chocolate obviously). -- Xronos Scheduler - https://xronos.uk/ All your school's schedule information in one place. Timetable, activities, homework, public events - the lot Live demo at https://schedulerdemo.xronos.uk/ -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:01:42AM +0100, Chris Bell via GLLUG wrote: > Hello Frank, > You could find that you get an improvement by using a replacement lower front > panel VDSL filter for the incoming BT NTE5 termination box which will block > the > data from entering your internal telephone wiring. It will bypass the line > filter in the standard box, which destroys the balance between the wires, and > replace it with another after the data has been isolated, preventing your > telephone wiring from acting as tuned aerial stubs. > -- > Chris Bell > Website http://chrisbell.org.uk Back in the day when ADSL2 came in I acquired a NTE5 termination box an purchased a replacement faceplate from Solwise and connected to my router using a shielded RJ45 cable. When I updated to FTTC in 2017 I replaced the faceplate with a VDSL one from Solwise. I found no difference in sync rate between the two. I put it badly, but the point I was intending to make was that 70Mbs from a 80Mbs nominal line was not bad. As usual John W. made the point more clearly and concisely. fcs -- .^. .''`. /V\: ;` : Frank Scott Sutton, London /( )\ `. ''` ^^ ^^ `- -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On Wednesday, 13 May 2020 11:45:39 BST Henrik Morsing via GLLUG wrote: > On 13-May-20 11:01 AM, Chris Bell via GLLUG wrote: > > Hello Frank, > > You could find that you get an improvement by using a replacement lower > > front panel VDSL filter for the incoming BT NTE5 termination box which > > will block the data from entering your internal telephone wiring. It will > > bypass the line filter in the standard box, which destroys the balance > > between the wires, and replace it with another after the data has been > > isolated, preventing your telephone wiring from acting as tuned aerial > > stubs. > > Hi Chris, > > Any chance of a pretty ASCII diagram of that? I'm sure I follow your > replacement route and wiring. > Undo the two screws holding the lower panel and remove it. You may need to transfer any telephone wiring originally connected direct to the back to the replacement panel, there should be similar IDC connection points on the new one, then fix the new panel in its place. There will be one socket for the modem plus one standard BT telephone socket on the new one to replace the original single telephone outlet. If there was any very old telephone wiring to the rear of the original lower panel it may have the old wiring colours, so make a note of the original connections before they are disconnected. The replacement VDSL filter panel should cost around £15 to £20, usually available from CPC.Farnell.com -- Chris Bell Website http://chrisbell.org.uk -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On 13/05/2020 11:45, Henrik Morsing via GLLUG wrote: [snip] Any chance of a pretty ASCII diagram of that? I'm sure I follow your replacement route and wiring. Not sure about ASCII art, but here are some photos of a slightly old one. https://photos.app.goo.gl/BqgyZtjSg79gC2DH9 Modern ones have a more rounded shape. You remove the existing lower panel from your BT master socket, insert the extra layer, then replace the lower panel. HTH John -- Xronos Scheduler - https://xronos.uk/ All your school's schedule information in one place. Timetable, activities, homework, public events - the lot Live demo at https://schedulerdemo.xronos.uk/ -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On 13-May-20 11:01 AM, Chris Bell via GLLUG wrote: Hello Frank, You could find that you get an improvement by using a replacement lower front panel VDSL filter for the incoming BT NTE5 termination box which will block the data from entering your internal telephone wiring. It will bypass the line filter in the standard box, which destroys the balance between the wires, and replace it with another after the data has been isolated, preventing your telephone wiring from acting as tuned aerial stubs. Hi Chris, Any chance of a pretty ASCII diagram of that? I'm sure I follow your replacement route and wiring. Thanks P.S. Your website is down... -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
On 13/05/2020 11:01, Chris Bell via GLLUG wrote: Hello Frank, You could find that you get an improvement by using a replacement lower front panel VDSL filter for the incoming BT NTE5 termination box which will block the data from entering your internal telephone wiring. It will bypass the line filter in the standard box, which destroys the balance between the wires, and replace it with another after the data has been isolated, preventing your telephone wiring from acting as tuned aerial stubs. I'll completely agree with that! Last year, I put a good quality line filter on to my brother's phone line, separating the VDSL signal where it entered the house. I also introduced an extra choke in series with the bell capacitor in the master socket. His data rate was almost doubled! Chris -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
Re: [GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
I love it when people remind us that at the end of the day, all data is analogue once it hits a copper wire! Kudos to a proper bit of communications engineering, Chris :-) On 13/05/2020 11:01, Chris Bell via GLLUG wrote: Hello Frank, You could find that you get an improvement by using a replacement lower front panel VDSL filter for the incoming BT NTE5 termination box which will block the data from entering your internal telephone wiring. It will bypass the line filter in the standard box, which destroys the balance between the wires, and replace it with another after the data has been isolated, preventing your telephone wiring from acting as tuned aerial stubs. -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
[GLLUG] Internet Data Rate
Hello Frank, You could find that you get an improvement by using a replacement lower front panel VDSL filter for the incoming BT NTE5 termination box which will block the data from entering your internal telephone wiring. It will bypass the line filter in the standard box, which destroys the balance between the wires, and replace it with another after the data has been isolated, preventing your telephone wiring from acting as tuned aerial stubs. -- Chris Bell Website http://chrisbell.org.uk -- GLLUG mailing list GLLUG@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug
