Re: [gmx-users] RE: Targeted MD

2010-08-20 Thread Ran Friedman
Hi,

-r and -rb are for FEP.

If you want to bias your simulation's sampling, you can use the pull
code, essential dynamics sampling or flooding, all of which are
described in the manual and literature.

Ran

Nimesh Jain wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I realize that this topic has been discussed before, but I just need
> to ascertain a few things: I have a system of about 1400 atoms with
> implicit solvent and I want to do a targeted MD. While doing the
> pre-processing, if I just specify "grompp -r in.gro -rb out.gro", is
> this sufficient or are there any other things that I need to consider.
> Also, I have tabulated potentials.
>
> If any one knows how to do this, or if you need more info on my
> system, please let me know.
>
> Thanks,
> Nimesh

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[gmx-users] RE: Targeted MD

2010-08-20 Thread Nimesh Jain
Hello,

I realize that this topic has been discussed before, but I just need to
ascertain a few things: I have a system of about 1400 atoms with implicit
solvent and I want to do a targeted MD. While doing the pre-processing, if I
just specify "grompp -r in.gro -rb out.gro", is this sufficient or are there
any other things that I need to consider. Also, I have tabulated potentials.


If any one knows how to do this, or if you need more info on my system,
please let me know.

Thanks,
Nimesh
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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-10 Thread Mark Abraham

Steven Kirk wrote:

Mark Abraham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote


"Non-Protein" serves well here. So a usual tc-grps line has "Protein 
Non-Protein" for a protein simulation.


Mark


A supplementary question.

The tc-grps line can take predefined standard group names such as 
'System', 'Protein' and 'Non-Protein'.


Does the 'Protein' group need to actually BE a protein, or are 'Protein' 
and 'Non-Protein' really synonyms for 
'PresumablyBigMoleculeOfInterestProteinOrNot' and 'EverythingElse' ?


I haven't read the code or found any mention in the manual, but I expect 
that src/share/top/aminoacids.dat contains the names of any amino acids, 
and thus implicitly defines these groups.


Mark
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Re: [Bulk] Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-10 Thread Yang Ye
Protein are defined by the residue names inside aminoacids.dat. So, it 
is possible for nucleic acid to be "Protein".


Steven Kirk wrote:

Mark Abraham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote


Subject: Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD
To: Discussion list for GROMACS users 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

wei-xin xu wrote:


> Some hints on practices that generally *not a good idea* to use:
> > * Do not use separate thermostats for different components 
of your
>   system. Some molecular dynamics thermostats only work well 
in the
>   thermodynamic limit. If you use one thermostat for, say, a 
small

>   molecule, another for protein, and another for water, you are
>   likely introducing errors and artifacts that are hard to 
predict.
>   In particular, do not couple ions in aqueous solvent 
differently

>   from that
> * solvent. > > Sorry that I do not actually understand here. 
The link I copied above > shows that better not to "couple ions in 
aqueous solvent differently > from that solvent". Maybe not 
separately but differently (mean different > temperature)?


"differently" is intended to mean "in a separate group". I'll reword 
my wiki sentence.


The original poster showed an .mdp file where

tc-grps = Protein ; SOL CL UNK

(or something like that). Now actually, the semicolon starts a 
comment, so he's only thermostatting the protein. That's a bad idea 
because it will lead to net heat flow from the protein to the rest of 
the system. Even if there were no semicolon, there are probably a few 
thousand solvent molecules and a handful of chloride ions. 
Temperature is defined from the average kinetic energy, and the 
average kinetic energy of a handful of ions in thermal contact with 
many other atoms will have large fluctuations, and this will lead to 
the thermostat doing lots of corrections, for lots of heat flow in 
and out of the system. So treating solvent+ions+other_small_stuff as 
one group for T-coupling purposes is a good idea, and the standard 
group "Non-Protein" serves well here. So a usual tc-grps line has 
"Protein Non-Protein" for a protein simulation.


Mark


A supplementary question.

The tc-grps line can take predefined standard group names such as 
'System', 'Protein' and 'Non-Protein'.


Does the 'Protein' group need to actually BE a protein, or are 
'Protein' and 'Non-Protein' really synonyms for 
'PresumablyBigMoleculeOfInterestProteinOrNot' and 'EverythingElse' ?



Thanks!

Steve Kirk


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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-10 Thread Steven Kirk

Mark Abraham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote


Subject: Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD
To: Discussion list for GROMACS users 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

wei-xin xu wrote:


> Some hints on practices that generally *not a good idea* to use:
> 
> * Do not use separate thermostats for different components of your

>   system. Some molecular dynamics thermostats only work well in the
>   thermodynamic limit. If you use one thermostat for, say, a small
>   molecule, another for protein, and another for water, you are
>   likely introducing errors and artifacts that are hard to predict.
>   In particular, do not couple ions in aqueous solvent differently
>   from that
> * solvent. 
> 
> Sorry that I do not actually understand here. The link I copied above 
> shows that better not to "couple ions in aqueous solvent differently 
> from that solvent". Maybe not separately but differently (mean different 
> temperature)?


"differently" is intended to mean "in a separate group". I'll reword my 
wiki sentence.


The original poster showed an .mdp file where

tc-grps = Protein ; SOL CL UNK

(or something like that). Now actually, the semicolon starts a comment, 
so he's only thermostatting the protein. That's a bad idea because it 
will lead to net heat flow from the protein to the rest of the system. 
Even if there were no semicolon, there are probably a few thousand 
solvent molecules and a handful of chloride ions. Temperature is defined 
from the average kinetic energy, and the average kinetic energy of a 
handful of ions in thermal contact with many other atoms will have large 
fluctuations, and this will lead to the thermostat doing lots of 
corrections, for lots of heat flow in and out of the system. So treating 
solvent+ions+other_small_stuff as one group for T-coupling purposes is a 
good idea, and the standard group "Non-Protein" serves well here. So a 
usual tc-grps line has "Protein Non-Protein" for a protein simulation.


Mark


A supplementary question.

The tc-grps line can take predefined standard group names such as 
'System', 'Protein' and 'Non-Protein'.


Does the 'Protein' group need to actually BE a protein, or are 'Protein' 
and 'Non-Protein' really synonyms for 
'PresumablyBigMoleculeOfInterestProteinOrNot' and 'EverythingElse' ?



Thanks!

Steve Kirk
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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-09 Thread Novice
Thanks a lot for the detailed and nice explainations.



2008/1/10, Mark Abraham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> wei-xin xu wrote:
>
> > Some hints on practices that generally *not a good idea* to use:
> >
> > * Do not use separate thermostats for different components of your
> >   system. Some molecular dynamics thermostats only work well in the
> >   thermodynamic limit. If you use one thermostat for, say, a small
> >   molecule, another for protein, and another for water, you are
> >   likely introducing errors and artifacts that are hard to predict.
> >   In particular, do not couple ions in aqueous solvent differently
> >   from that
> > * solvent.
> >
> > Sorry that I do not actually understand here. The link I copied above
> > shows that better not to "couple ions in aqueous solvent differently
> > from that solvent". Maybe not separately but differently (mean different
> > temperature)?
>
> "differently" is intended to mean "in a separate group". I'll reword my
> wiki sentence.
>
> The original poster showed an .mdp file where
>
> tc-grps = Protein ; SOL CL UNK
>
> (or something like that). Now actually, the semicolon starts a comment,
> so he's only thermostatting the protein. That's a bad idea because it
> will lead to net heat flow from the protein to the rest of the system.
> Even if there were no semicolon, there are probably a few thousand
> solvent molecules and a handful of chloride ions. Temperature is defined
> from the average kinetic energy, and the average kinetic energy of a
> handful of ions in thermal contact with many other atoms will have large
> fluctuations, and this will lead to the thermostat doing lots of
> corrections, for lots of heat flow in and out of the system. So treating
> solvent+ions+other_small_stuff as one group for T-coupling purposes is a
> good idea, and the standard group "Non-Protein" serves well here. So a
> usual tc-grps line has "Protein Non-Protein" for a protein simulation.
>
> Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-09 Thread Mark Abraham

wei-xin xu wrote:


Some hints on practices that generally *not a good idea* to use:

* Do not use separate thermostats for different components of your
  system. Some molecular dynamics thermostats only work well in the
  thermodynamic limit. If you use one thermostat for, say, a small
  molecule, another for protein, and another for water, you are
  likely introducing errors and artifacts that are hard to predict.
  In particular, do not couple ions in aqueous solvent differently
  from that
* solvent. 

Sorry that I do not actually understand here. The link I copied above 
shows that better not to "couple ions in aqueous solvent differently 
from that solvent". Maybe not separately but differently (mean different 
temperature)?


"differently" is intended to mean "in a separate group". I'll reword my 
wiki sentence.


The original poster showed an .mdp file where

tc-grps = Protein ; SOL CL UNK

(or something like that). Now actually, the semicolon starts a comment, 
so he's only thermostatting the protein. That's a bad idea because it 
will lead to net heat flow from the protein to the rest of the system. 
Even if there were no semicolon, there are probably a few thousand 
solvent molecules and a handful of chloride ions. Temperature is defined 
from the average kinetic energy, and the average kinetic energy of a 
handful of ions in thermal contact with many other atoms will have large 
fluctuations, and this will lead to the thermostat doing lots of 
corrections, for lots of heat flow in and out of the system. So treating 
solvent+ions+other_small_stuff as one group for T-coupling purposes is a 
good idea, and the standard group "Non-Protein" serves well here. So a 
usual tc-grps line has "Protein Non-Protein" for a protein simulation.


Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-09 Thread Yang Ye




wei-xin xu wrote:
2008/1/10, Mark Abraham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
  
  Some hints on
practices that generally not a good idea to use: 
  
Do not use
separate thermostats for different components of your system. Some
molecular dynamics thermostats only work well in the thermodynamic
limit. If you use one thermostat for, say, a small molecule, another
for protein, and another for water, you are likely introducing errors
and artifacts that are hard to predict. In particular, do not couple
ions in aqueous solvent differently from that 
solvent.

  
  
  Sorry that I
do not actually understand here. The link I copied above shows that
better not to "couple ions in aqueous solvent differently from that
solvent". Maybe not separately but differently (mean different
temperature)?
  
   
  I am actually
a novice in Gromacs.
  

It's a bit off-topic.

The paragraph quoted above implies that "not separately" so it is
generally applies to cases where you want to make a
temperature-coupling group of a small number of particles



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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-09 Thread wei-xin xu
2008/1/10, Mark Abraham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Stanislav Bobritsky wrote:
>
> >  > Well, but (as I know from Manual, Ch. 6, p. 120) there is
> > "approach to do targeted MD" in GMX.
> >
> > Did you add position restraint to your protein
> > topology?
> >
> >
> > No, I did not.
> > What group must be restrained therefore? Whole protein or whole protein
> > except loop?
>
> From "man grompp",
>
> > When using position restraints a file with restraint coordinates can be
> > supplied with -r, otherwise restraining will be done with respect to the
> > conformation from the -c option. For free energy calculation the the
> > coordinates for the B topology can be supplied with -rb, otherwise they
> will
> > be equal to those of the A topology.
>
> Thus I expect your earlier grompp command line didn't do the job you
> thought it did.
>
> You could restrain just the loop if you knew the protein was stable, but
> easiest is to present conformation A as -c and B as -r. pdb2gmx will
> have supplied you with a posre.itp file, and you need -DPOSRES in the
> include .mdp directive so that the former works.
>
> Your .mdp file as supplied earlier should not T-couple only your solute,
> and neither should it couple your counterions separately from the
> solvent. See http://wiki.gromacs.org/index.php/Thermostats




Some hints on practices that generally *not a good idea* to use:

   - Do not use separate thermostats for different components of your
   system. Some molecular dynamics thermostats only work well in the
   thermodynamic limit. If you use one thermostat for, say, a small molecule,
   another for protein, and another for water, you are likely introducing
   errors and artifacts that are hard to predict. In particular, do not couple
   ions in aqueous solvent differently from that
   - solvent.

Sorry that I do not actually understand here. The link I copied above shows
that better not to "couple ions in aqueous solvent differently from that
solvent". Maybe not separately but differently (mean different temperature)?

I am actually a novice in Gromacs.







> Based on the foregoing, I'd guess that you're fairly new to MD and/or
> GROMACS. I'd strongly recommend doing some (more) tutorials and
> background reading so that you have more idea what "normal" MD is, and
> the consequences of changes you might make. Otherwise the odds are
> excellent you're just using an complicated quasi-random number generator.
>
> Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-09 Thread Mark Abraham

Stanislav Bobritsky wrote:


 > Well, but (as I know from Manual, Ch. 6, p. 120) there is
"approach to do targeted MD" in GMX.

Did you add position restraint to your protein
topology?


No, I did not.
What group must be restrained therefore? Whole protein or whole protein 
except loop?


From "man grompp",


When using position restraints a file with restraint coordinates can be
supplied with -r, otherwise restraining will be done with respect to the
conformation from the -c option. For free energy calculation the the
coordinates for the B topology can be supplied with -rb, otherwise they will
be equal to those of the A topology.


Thus I expect your earlier grompp command line didn't do the job you 
thought it did.


You could restrain just the loop if you knew the protein was stable, but 
easiest is to present conformation A as -c and B as -r. pdb2gmx will 
have supplied you with a posre.itp file, and you need -DPOSRES in the 
include .mdp directive so that the former works.


Your .mdp file as supplied earlier should not T-couple only your solute, 
and neither should it couple your counterions separately from the 
solvent. See http://wiki.gromacs.org/index.php/Thermostats


Based on the foregoing, I'd guess that you're fairly new to MD and/or 
GROMACS. I'd strongly recommend doing some (more) tutorials and 
background reading so that you have more idea what "normal" MD is, and 
the consequences of changes you might make. Otherwise the odds are 
excellent you're just using an complicated quasi-random number generator.


Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-09 Thread Stanislav Bobritsky
2008/1/9, Berk Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
>
>
> 
> > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:30:38 +0200
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
> > Subject: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD
> >
> >
> > Ran Friedman wrote:
> >>Dear Stanislav,
> >>
> >>AFAIK there's no "targeted MD" in GMX. You can run EDS or use the
> >>flooding algorithm.
> >>
> >>Ran.
> >
> > Well, but (as I know from Manual, Ch. 6, p. 120) there is "approach to
> do targeted MD" in GMX.
>
> Did you add position restraint to your protein
> topology?


No, I did not.
What group must be restrained therefore? Whole protein or whole protein
except loop?
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RE: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-09 Thread Berk Hess




> Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:30:38 +0200
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
> Subject: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD
> 
> 
> Ran Friedman wrote:
>>Dear Stanislav,
>>
>>AFAIK there's no "targeted MD" in GMX. You can run EDS or use the
>>flooding algorithm.
>>
>>Ran.
> 
> Well, but (as I know from Manual, Ch. 6, p. 120) there is "approach to do 
> targeted MD" in GMX.

Did you add position restraint to your protein
topology?

Berk.

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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-09 Thread Ran Friedman
Stanislav Bobritsky wrote:
> *Ran Friedman wrote:*
> >Dear Stanislav,
> >
> >AFAIK there's no "targeted MD" in GMX. You can run EDS or use the
> >flooding algorithm.
> >
> >Ran.
>
> Well, but (as I know from Manual, Ch. 6, p. 120) there is "approach to do 
> targeted MD" in GMX.
>   
Together with an explanation why one should not use it for proteins :-)

But I guess you know what you need.

When I read "targeted MD" I think about applying an external force in
order to reduce the RMSD between two structures, so that the dynamics
are somewhat perturbed, as it's done in CHARMM.

Ran.

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[gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-09 Thread Stanislav Bobritsky
*Ran Friedman wrote:*
>Dear Stanislav,
>
>AFAIK there's no "targeted MD" in GMX. You can run EDS or use the
>flooding algorithm.
>
>Ran.

Well, but (as I know from Manual, Ch. 6, p. 120) there is "approach to
do targeted MD" in GMX.




S. Bobritsky, TSNU, Kiev Ukraine
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[gmx-users] Re: Targeted MD

2008-01-09 Thread Stanislav Bobritsky
>Stanislav Bobritsky wrote:
>>* Hello dear gromacs users!
*>*> I`m trying to do targeted MD. I have two protein conformations which are

*>*> different from each other by one loop position. I need to force
*>*> conformation A to B.
*>*> It was following commands executed:
*>*>
*>*> grompp -с box.gro -f
md.mdp -r conf1.pdb -rb conf2.pdb -p topol.top -o
*>*> transformer.tpr
*>*>
*>*
> mdrun -s transformer.tpr -o -x -c -e -g -v
*>*>
*>*> But it can be viewed from traj.xtc that conformation didn`t change.

*>*> Protein just spins (with speed increasing), and desired loop does not move.
*>*>
*>*
> What can I do to fix it?
*>
>What's in your .mdp file?
>
>Mark

.mdp file contains following:

title= prot
cpp = cpp
define = -DFLEX_SPC

integrator= md
tinit= 0
dt   = 0.001
nsteps = 100
init_step  = 0
comm-mode= Linear
nstcomm  = 1
comm-grps=
bd-fric  = 0
ld-seed  = 1993
emtol= 1000.0
emstep   = 0.001
niter= 20
fcstep   = 0
nstcgsteep   = 1000
nbfgscorr= 10
nstxout  = 1000
nstvout  = 2000
nstfout  = 2000
nstcheckpoint= 1
nstlog   = 100
nstenergy= 1000
nstxtcout= 1000
xtc-precision= 1000
xtc-grps = protein ;SOL UNK CL-
energygrps   = protein ;SOL UNK CL-
nstlist  = 10
ns_type  = Grid
pbc  = xyz
rlist= 0.9
domain-decomposition = no
coulombtype  = PME
rcoulomb-switch  = 0
rcoulomb = 0.9
epsilon_r= 1
epsilon_rf   = 1
vdw-type = Cut-off
rvdw-switch  = 0
rvdw = 1.4
DispCorr = EnerPres
table-extension  = 1
energygrp_table  =
fourierspacing   = 0.12
fourier_nx   = 0
fourier_ny   = 0
fourier_nz   = 0
pme_order= 4
ewald_rtol   = 1e-5
ewald_geometry   = 3d
epsilon_surface  = 0
optimize_fft = yes
gb_algorithm = Still
nstgbradii   = 1
rgbradii = 2
gb_saltconc  = 0
implicit_solvent = No
tcoupl   = berendsen
tc-grps  = protein  ; sol   CL-  UNK
tau_t= 0.1  ; 0.1   0.1  0.1
ref_t= 298; 298   298  298
Pcoupl   = no
Pcoupltype   = Isotropic
tau_p= 1.0
compressibility  = 4.5e-5
ref_p= 1.0   1.0   1.0
andersen_seed= 815131

gen-vel  = no
gen-temp = 298
gen-seed = 173529
constraints  = all-bonds
constraint-algorithm = Shake
unconstrained-start  = yes
Shake-SOR= no
shake-tol= 1e-04
lincs-order  = 4
lincs-iter   = 2
lincs-warnangle  = 60
morse= no
energygrp_excl   =
disre= No
disre-weighting  = Conservative
disre-mixed  = no
disre-fc = 1000
disre-tau= 0
nstdisreout  = 100
orire= no
orire-fc = 0
orire-tau= 0
orire-fitgrp =
nstorireout  = 100
dihre= No
dihre-fc = 1000
dihre-tau= 0
nstdihreout  = 100

free-energy  = no
init-lambda  = 0
delta-lambda = 0
sc-alpha = 0
sc-power = 0
sc-sigma = 0.3

Stanislav Bobritsky,
ChemBio Center, Taras Shevchenko National University, Kiev, Ukraine.
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