Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On Sep 10, 2007, at 16:48, Bruce Dawson wrote: > I seem to remember somewhere that Comcast's "available" meant you > get a > signal. This is generally possible if the wire is unbroken between the > last pole and your building entrance. However, this does not guarantee > signal quality - which is what matters here. Right, and as I understand it, a cable signal is sufficient - if they're not connected to the Internet at the time, you don't have an outage as long as your modem can talk to your pole. > Comcast's standard answer seems to be "about $30,000" for any place > that's remotely rural and doesn't have comcast already on the > poles. You > really need to get them to come out and do a "survey" of your > location. Up here they quoted double that. Good to know about the site survey - we just balked at $60K and built our own network instead -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On 9/12/07, Neil Joseph Schelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm sure that something like FiOS would be stable enough for us. Cable > seems a little unreliable ... To the best of my knowledge, all the Verizon FiOS and Comcast data services are "consumer class". They'll be pretty much similar in terms of expectation of reliability -- i.e., none. Note that I said *expectation* of reliability. Many of them end up being reasonably reliable for long lengths of time. But you cannot depend on it. The "Business" names they stick on some of them have more to do with billing than anything else. There are some AUP (Acceptable Usage Policy) differences between the residential and business contracts, but that's about it. In my experience, the reliability varies in practice, too. I suspect it may correlate with location. I've never had a problem with my Comcast feed at home, in 2+ years there. My previous residence had an Adelphia cable feed, and that was pretty shaky. As a consultant, I've had experience with customers with DSL or cable feeds, and I likewise saw both good and bad, but consistent at a given location. I have no direct experience with FiOS, but I've read similar stories (both good and bad) on the web. So, if DSL or FiOS would be "good enough" for your needs, but only cable is available in your area, I would suggest evaluating the cable service. Call the sales office and tell them you want to give a try, but will not touch it unless they do it without subscriber commitment. If it turns out to suck, cancel. If it is good enough, you win. Disclaimer: I hate Comcast, but I hate Verizon more. So I guess I'm biased in favor of Comcast. Sort of. > I'd settle for cheap and fast (symmetric), but Comcast did offer to sell me a 1.5 Mbit/sec symmetric connection. It was either $200 or $300 a month, I think. Maybe they could do channel bonding for you? If so, $1200/month for 6 Mbit/sec isn't bad. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On Wednesday 12 September 2007 15:23, Ben Scott wrote: > Oh. I see your point now. :) Bandwidth that is good, fast, *and* > cheap. Definitely a sort of holy grail. And equally elusive, I would > say. But in this case, even picking 2 doesn't work. The uptime SLAs aren't as important to us. I'm sure that something like FiOS would be stable enough for us. Cable seems a little unreliable, but decent DSL would probably be alright. It's only used for office access and remote access and nothing is mission critical here (that's all at the datacenter). I'd settle for cheap and fast (symmetric), but T1s are really just not fast anymore and upgrading beyond them gets really expensive really quickly. "Good, fast, and cheap" ... pick 2. I wish... -N ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On 9/10/07, Neil Joseph Schelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Where could you get anywhere close to 12mbps for anywhere close to >>> $1000/month? >> >> Like I said, "over $1000 month". The key word being "over". ) > > No worries - I just hoped you had a reference for those numbers... I had to > jump at the opportunity, even if the chances were slim. Oh. I see your point now. :) Bandwidth that is good, fast, *and* cheap. Definitely a sort of holy grail. And equally elusive, I would say. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
[Warning: Luddite message to follow] > > Note that the TV service actually requires a router to function -- on demand > is all IPTV, guide data is all pulled via IP, etc. My cable box actually > obtains a dhcp address from the router, both of which are hooked to the coax > in the house, the communication being done over the MoCA protocol. So the > cable box makes IP-based requests that go over coax to the router, which > feeds them over to the ONT via cat5, which then feeds 'em up to Verizon via > fiber. > I remember the days when all you needed was a small rabbit-ear antenna that you wiggled in different directions until you got "Leave it to Beaver" to come in clearly. And you just read the paper to find out what time and channel it was scheduled for. And people say that Linux is hard to use. :-) md -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On Tuesday 11 September 2007 11:36:38 am Ben Scott wrote: > On 9/11/07, Jarod Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I still don't really know what my SLA is ... > > To the best of my knowledge, if you have FiOS, you don't really have > one, same as with Comcast. Yeah, s/SLA/ToS/ > > Just haven't had reason to spend the time doing it, too many other things > > going on, and the service has never been down. > > ToS/SLA particulars are kind of like backups. A lot of people never > worry about them when everything is fine. But when they suddenly > become important, it's too late. :) > > (Note that I'm not arguing you should drop everything and go read up > on this stuff. I recognize that for a lot of people/orgs, it just > isn't that important.) Yeah, its just my personal/family web and email, so if its down, its not like its the end of the world, nobody is losing revenue or anything. > > I haven't even lost my connection when power in the neighborhood goes > > out. > > Interesting. Do you have your ONT (Optical Network Terminal, the > box the fiber runs into) on an external UPS? I've read elsewhere that > ONTs are usually provisioned with a local backup battery, but it only > runs the telephone services (not TV/data, to preserve battery for > phone). I wonder if this is a configuration option, or dependent on > ONT model, or... I have two fibers, each running to their own ONT, both on their own integrated battery backups. I have no phone service on either fiber, so the battery is free to keep power to the other bits. I just know that I've had my power out, and my servers on UPS can still get out to the tubes just fine, without the ONTs being on UPS. At least, that's my recollection... I'll have to double-check that at some point. There was use of a generator mixed in at one point during a lengthy outage, could be that the ONTs were actually pulling power from one of the outlets powered by the generator. > > ... residential TV service paired with my business data service, which > > ultimately ended up requiring two fibers ... > > Two fibers?!?! But I thought it was all "True QAM"!!!/SARCASM ;-) Yep, two fibers, two ONTs on the house. Annoying, but oh well. Unbeknown to a number of people at Verizon even, certain TV services ride on the same vlan as residentail data, so if you switch the fiber from the residential vlan to the business one, no TV. Note that the TV service actually requires a router to function -- on demand is all IPTV, guide data is all pulled via IP, etc. My cable box actually obtains a dhcp address from the router, both of which are hooked to the coax in the house, the communication being done over the MoCA protocol. So the cable box makes IP-based requests that go over coax to the router, which feeds them over to the ONT via cat5, which then feeds 'em up to Verizon via fiber. -- Jarod Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On 9/11/07, Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh, what the hell. If you really want to know, it was around $500. > Three poll spans, I think; maybe 350 feet... Oh, and it was actually more interesting. Originally, we had looked at bringing the Comcast service in at our main building, where our phone and electrical already comes in. But that would have been a different street, required a bigger plant extension (longer run, hard line, amps/repeaters, etc.). It would also have been complicated by the fact that the main utilities come in via long underground conduits that exceed the length limits for the regular subscriber drop cable (and you can't snake semi-rigid). We never got firm figures for this scenario, but it was looking to be expensive. But then I noticed that our second building's main utility closet bordered a different street that was a lot closer to existing Comcast outside plant. So they were able to run a smaller extension to that. The RF coax terminates in that closet, and we use a VLAN to bring the Ethernet from the CPE back to the firewall (in the server room in the main building). So if that alternative had not been possible, we would likely have had to pay a lot more for the install. Have I mentioned that every plant extension situation is different? ;-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On 9/11/07, Jarod Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I still don't really know what my SLA is ... To the best of my knowledge, if you have FiOS, you don't really have one, same as with Comcast. > Just haven't had reason to spend the time doing it, too many other things > going on, and the service has never been down. ToS/SLA particulars are kind of like backups. A lot of people never worry about them when everything is fine. But when they suddenly become important, it's too late. :) (Note that I'm not arguing you should drop everything and go read up on this stuff. I recognize that for a lot of people/orgs, it just isn't that important.) > I haven't even lost my connection when power in the neighborhood goes out. Interesting. Do you have your ONT (Optical Network Terminal, the box the fiber runs into) on an external UPS? I've read elsewhere that ONTs are usually provisioned with a local backup battery, but it only runs the telephone services (not TV/data, to preserve battery for phone). I wonder if this is a configuration option, or dependent on ONT model, or... (For those who are wondering what this is all about: Traditional plain old telephone phone service runs entirely on power provided by the telephone company's Central Office. COs generally have a massive battery plant and a backup generator, and practically never go dead. The FiOS ONTs, on the other hand, need to be supplied electrical power from the local premises (e.g., wall outlet). So if you loose power at your house, FiOS is going to last a few hours before the ONT's local battery goes dead, and your landline phone with it. This isn't necessarily a major concern (especially with mobile wireless being ubiquitous today), but it is worth being aware of.) > ... residential TV service paired with my business data service, which > ultimately ended up requiring two fibers ... Two fibers?!?! But I thought it was all "True QAM"!!!/SARCASM ;-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On Tuesday 11 September 2007 08:44:55 am Matt Brodeur wrote: > On Mon, Sep 10, 2007 at 03:56:25PM -0400, Ben Scott wrote: > > We're paying $64/month. $59/month base, plus $5/month for a static > > IP address. (I was told a block of 5 addresses would cost $10/month.) > > This is an introductory offer. After a year, the price is supposed > > to go up. Supposedly to $105/month if it happened today. We'll see. > > FWIW, I've had Comcast Workplace Standard w/ 5 Static IPs for just > over two years. The cost is now $112.35/month after fees and taxes. > I have no complaints about that, since my 144k IDSL was $170/month and > Workplace was closer to $250/month for the first nine months. I throw out my business fios service details too: 5 static IP addresses, no blocked ports, 20Mbps down, 5Mbps up, flat $99/mo, including all fees and taxes. Haven't had a single outage in the time I've had the service (getting close to a year now, iirc). > > There were some one-time costs related to getting a line run on the > > poles to our facility. These will not generalize to anyone else's > > experiences, so I'm not going to post them. > > Since it's already being discussed... > If you're getting a residential install (which really confuses their > sales and support folks) to a house with existing cable it'll often be > free. At the last house we had a relatively new drop from a recent > (free) video service install. At this house we only have the > Workplace service, and they still replaced the ancient drop line for > free. > Well, there is that 6-12 month contract thing... I had zero install costs as well, just that 12mo contract thing. > > In short, if you need or want an SLA, Comcast is not the right choice. > > Comcast changes thier ToS about every three months as they constantly > reinvent the service. My $105 6.0/768 includes the "refund if it > stops working" SLA. The catch is that I have to report the outage, > and I have to actually request the credit. I keep forgetting the > second part, so I've missed out on something like $30 in credits. Oh > well. I still don't really know what my SLA is, haven't bothered to really look into it. Just haven't had reason to spend the time doing it, too many other things going on, and the service has never been down. > > RELIABILITY > > > > Insufficient data. We just put the Comcast feed into production for > > web surfing a few days ago. > > As I hinted at above, I've had approximately two full days of total > outage in two years. Unfortunately, at least 24 hours of that was in > one shot. I haven't even lost my connection when power in the neighborhood goes out. > At least thier business tech support is better than the residential > clowns. When I call to report an outage it's: > "Did you power cycle the router?" > "Yes" > "Hmm... There are currently zero subscribers on your head end. This > is our problem. Here's a ticket number if you need to call back..." My only knock on Verizon is some of their tech support people. They are still quite new to the whole fios thing. That, and for some of them, its apparently a hard concept to grasp that I don't have phone service with verizon, and that its a *business* package at a residential location. (Though most of this confusion was related to my trying to get residential TV service paired with my business data service, which ultimately ended up requiring two fibers, so they're completely separate from one another). -- Jarod Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On 9/11/07, Bruce Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I *think* they installed an amp at the beginning of our run > - at least there's a "fat spot" in the wire down there. I'm pretty sure, for a 3000 foot run, they'll need at least one amp or repeater or such. > I'm not asking for numbers for justification. I just wanted people to > have hard data (well, data at least) so they can evaluate their own > position in the situation. And that's why I was reluctant to post a number -- because if anyone tries to apply that $500 figure to their situation, they're making a mistake. :) It's almost impossible to do an apples-to-apples comparison in these situations. (Whether or not it should be possible is immaterial -- it isn't.) :) > In some towns there's a permitting/licensing/utility change process too, so > the town > gets involved, not just Comcast. Yup. And whether Comcast feels threatened by Verizon FiOS in the area. And I'd be willing to bet IBEW union contracts get involved in some places, too. And so on. It's a mess. "When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe." -- John Muir -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On Mon, Sep 10, 2007 at 03:56:25PM -0400, Ben Scott wrote: > > We're paying $64/month. $59/month base, plus $5/month for a static > IP address. (I was told a block of 5 addresses would cost $10/month.) > This is an introductory offer. After a year, the price is supposed > to go up. Supposedly to $105/month if it happened today. We'll see. FWIW, I've had Comcast Workplace Standard w/ 5 Static IPs for just over two years. The cost is now $112.35/month after fees and taxes. I have no complaints about that, since my 144k IDSL was $170/month and Workplace was closer to $250/month for the first nine months. > There were some one-time costs related to getting a line run on the > poles to our facility. These will not generalize to anyone else's > experiences, so I'm not going to post them. Since it's already being discussed... If you're getting a residential install (which really confuses their sales and support folks) to a house with existing cable it'll often be free. At the last house we had a relatively new drop from a recent (free) video service install. At this house we only have the Workplace service, and they still replaced the ancient drop line for free. Well, there is that 6-12 month contract thing... > In short, if you need or want an SLA, Comcast is not the right choice. Comcast changes thier ToS about every three months as they constantly reinvent the service. My $105 6.0/768 includes the "refund if it stops working" SLA. The catch is that I have to report the outage, and I have to actually request the credit. I keep forgetting the second part, so I've missed out on something like $30 in credits. Oh well. > RELIABILITY > > Insufficient data. We just put the Comcast feed into production for > web surfing a few days ago. As I hinted at above, I've had approximately two full days of total outage in two years. Unfortunately, at least 24 hours of that was in one shot. At least thier business tech support is better than the residential clowns. When I call to report an outage it's: "Did you power cycle the router?" "Yes" "Hmm... There are currently zero subscribers on your head end. This is our problem. Here's a ticket number if you need to call back..." -- Matt Brodeur RHCE [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexttime.com PGP ID: 2CFE18A3 / 9EBA 7F1E 42D1 7A43 5884 560C 73CF D615 2CFE 18A3 All generalizations are false, including this one. pgpAtUwXDxWwf.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
Ben Scott wrote: > On 9/10/07, Bruce Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> There were some one-time costs related to getting a line run on the >>> poles to our facility. These will not generalize to anyone else's >>> experiences, so I'm not going to post them. >>> >>> >> Ack! Phht. Don't assume this! >> > > Oh, what the hell. If you really want to know, it was around $500. > Three poll spans, I think; maybe 350 feet. There was a hard line > (semi-rigid cable) on the street they tapped from, and they ran what I > think is RG-11 down the street to us. Originally, they quoted around > $1000, but I worked them down by arguing that there were a few other > potential subscribers on the street they might be able to sell to. > > This has about nothing in common with your situation. :) Different > state. Different sales division. Our run was very short and didn't > need much in terms of equipment. You're at the end of your street; > we're not (so there's opportunity for further expansion). You're out > in a rural area; we're in a city (albeit a small one), so we're closer > to where the trucks already are. I don't think they did anything but > put the tap box at the end of the line for us; your run would need > amps/repeaters at least, if not a new fiber node. > Different indeed. They ran "semi-rigid" cable over 6 poles (I think - we've eliminated a few since then) and crossed a "street" (actually our town-maintained "driveway"). I *think* they installed an amp at the beginning of our run - at least there's a "fat spot" in the wire down there. > Note that I'm not attempting to justify what Comcast charged you in > particular. Just emphasizing that one cannot generalize specific > experiences to other situations. Call and get a quote. > I'm not asking for numbers for justification. I just wanted people to have hard data (well, data at least) so they can evaluate their own position in the situation. In some towns there's a permitting/licensing/utility change process too, so the town gets involved, not just Comcast. And Comcast usually has "monopoly license" to a town, so that has to be factored in. You're right - every situation will be different. We didn't get Comcast to come down from their $30K original verbal quote to a more realistic quote until we convinced them to come out and do a survey. In our situation, we were the only new potential customer (at the time), so they really didn't have any incentive to expand the line - nor were they obligated to by their contract with the town. However, now that we have it, we're able to do most of our work from home. And that has "saved" us in many ways. --Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On Mon, 2007-09-10 at 16:24 -0400, Neil Joseph Schelly wrote: > On Monday 10 September 2007 15:56, Ben Scott wrote: > > Like I said: Cheap, disposable bandwidth. The speed really is quite > > impressive for the price. Getting an SLA feed with a committed rate > > of 12 megabit/sec from a "real" ISP would easily cost us over $1000 > > per month. I wouldn't rely on it for critical operations, but to > > complement our SLA feed, it seems like a good solution so far. > > Where could you get anywhere close to 12mbps for anywhere close to > $1000/month? I've found T1s in the range of $500-1000/month and anything > larger seems to jump up to several thousand/month at least. > -N Level3 offers 10mbps in Vermont and Lebanon/Hanover NH. Last I heard it was $1700 monthly for the full 10mbps service. However, you could settle for 3mbps with bursts to 10mbps for about $1200. > ___ > gnhlug-discuss mailing list > gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org > http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On 9/10/07, Bruce Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> There were some one-time costs related to getting a line run on the >> poles to our facility. These will not generalize to anyone else's >> experiences, so I'm not going to post them. > > > Ack! Phht. Don't assume this! Oh, what the hell. If you really want to know, it was around $500. Three poll spans, I think; maybe 350 feet. There was a hard line (semi-rigid cable) on the street they tapped from, and they ran what I think is RG-11 down the street to us. Originally, they quoted around $1000, but I worked them down by arguing that there were a few other potential subscribers on the street they might be able to sell to. This has about nothing in common with your situation. :) Different state. Different sales division. Our run was very short and didn't need much in terms of equipment. You're at the end of your street; we're not (so there's opportunity for further expansion). You're out in a rural area; we're in a city (albeit a small one), so we're closer to where the trucks already are. I don't think they did anything but put the tap box at the end of the line for us; your run would need amps/repeaters at least, if not a new fiber node. Note that I'm not attempting to justify what Comcast charged you in particular. Just emphasizing that one cannot generalize specific experiences to other situations. Call and get a quote. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On Monday 10 September 2007 16:44, Ben Scott wrote: > On 9/10/07, Neil Joseph Schelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Where could you get anywhere close to 12mbps for anywhere close to > > $1000/month? > > Like I said, "over $1000 month". The key word being "over". I > didn't say *how much* over. ;-) > Apparently > not doing so doesn't guarantee the lack of same, though. ;-) No worries - I just hoped you had a reference for those numbers... I had to jump at the opportunity, even if the chances were slim. -N ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On 9/10/07, Neil Joseph Schelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Where could you get anywhere close to 12mbps for anywhere close to
> $1000/month?
Like I said, "over $1000 month". The key word being "over". I
didn't say *how much* over. ;-)
I haven't priced specifics because it's way more than we need, and
way more than we want to spend. I know how much our existing SLA feed
costs, and that's enough! :-)
I also didn't get into specifics because doing so virtually
guarantees a bunch of people replying with their anecdotal experience
("My cousin Marv can get you a T1 for 27 bucks a month!", "Back in
1993, we had to pay $32,768 a month for a 56 K frame relay circuit to
a trailer mounted on pontoons in a Florida swamp", etc.). Apparently
not doing so doesn't guarantee the lack of same, though. ;-)
-- Ben
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Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
Ben Scott wrote: > ... > If somebody thinks they might be interested in getting Comcast to > run a line to their doorstep, they should call Comcast and ask for a > quote. That won't cost them anything but time, and it's the only way > to get a useful answer. > Comcast's standard answer seems to be "about $30,000" for any place that's remotely rural and doesn't have comcast already on the poles. You really need to get them to come out and do a "survey" of your location. --Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On 9/10/07, Bruce Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> There were some one-time costs related to getting a line run on the >> poles to our facility. These will not generalize to anyone else's >> experiences, so I'm not going to post them. > > > Ack! Phht. Don't assume this! I (and at least one other poster on this > list) have had to pay to have them run wire on poles to our places. In > my case, I think it cost about $6K to run it about 0.56 mile. Exactly. Our cost here was radically different. I know from past experience that other, apparently similar plant extensions have had very different costs. It depends on a number of factors, including the existing services on the poles, whether Comcast has to submit a "Make Ready" order to other utilities, closest existing line, signal strength at that point, run length, condition of the poles (can they take more weight?), type of line that needs to be run (RG-6? RG-11? semi-rigid? optical?), if amplifiers/repeaters/etc are needed, physical access, etc, etc. And those are just the technical factors. Promotions, sales district, how good you are at negotiating, service you're buying, other potential customers on the line, etc., can all come into play, too. And probably the phase of the moon. So our cost for this is only useful if you're getting a line run to our building. Since we've paid for that now, you won't ever have to do that, even if you move in here. :-) If somebody thinks they might be interested in getting Comcast to run a line to their doorstep, they should call Comcast and ask for a quote. That won't cost them anything but time, and it's the only way to get a useful answer. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
Ben Scott wrote: > COST > > ... > > There were some one-time costs related to getting a line run on the > poles to our facility. These will not generalize to anyone else's > experiences, so I'm not going to post them. > Ack! Phht. Don't assume this! I (and at least one other poster on this list) have had to pay to have them run wire on poles to our places. In my case, I think it cost about $6K to run it about 0.56 mile. > SLA > > SLA = Service Level Agreement. This is what spells out exactly what > you're getting for your money, and what the provider promises. > Basically, this feed comes without one. If we're happy with it, > great. If not, we're free to cancel the service. > > Comcast did offer a 1.5 meg symmetric feed with what they called an > "SLA". However, the "SLA" only gave a refund schedule which kicked on > on unavailability. They never defined "available". Specifics about > things like committed rate, packet loss, and round trip time were > nowhere to be found. Sales rep couldn't provide more detail. > I seem to remember somewhere that Comcast's "available" meant you get a signal. This is generally possible if the wire is unbroken between the last pole and your building entrance. However, this does not guarantee signal quality - which is what matters here. > In short, if you need or want an SLA, Comcast is not the right choice. > Very True. > ... > > Hope somebody finds this info useful. > Yes. We came to a similar conclusion - its great for general web surfing. However, don't plan on running much in the way of servers in your home/business on this line; things start getting rather sporadic (for both you and your clients). --Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
On Monday 10 September 2007 15:56, Ben Scott wrote: > Like I said: Cheap, disposable bandwidth. The speed really is quite > impressive for the price. Getting an SLA feed with a committed rate > of 12 megabit/sec from a "real" ISP would easily cost us over $1000 > per month. I wouldn't rely on it for critical operations, but to > complement our SLA feed, it seems like a good solution so far. Where could you get anywhere close to 12mbps for anywhere close to $1000/month? I've found T1s in the range of $500-1000/month and anything larger seems to jump up to several thousand/month at least. -N ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
[semi-OT] Review: Comcast Workplace cable Internet
At work, we recently subscribed to "Comcast Workplace" cable
Internet service, to supplement our existing feed. Since Internet
feeds seem to be a popular topic on this list, and there is a lack of
good information out there, I thought I'd post a write-up of my own
experiences.
Basically, the intent here was to get some cheap, disposable
bandwidth for web browsing. This is intended to complement the SLA
feed we get from a local ISP, not replace it.
Service location is Amesbury, MA. This is an old Adelphia town, FWIW.
COST
We're paying $64/month. $59/month base, plus $5/month for a static
IP address. (I was told a block of 5 addresses would cost $10/month.)
This is an introductory offer. After a year, the price is supposed
to go up. Supposedly to $105/month if it happened today. We'll see.
There were some one-time costs related to getting a line run on the
poles to our facility. These will not generalize to anyone else's
experiences, so I'm not going to post them.
SLA
SLA = Service Level Agreement. This is what spells out exactly what
you're getting for your money, and what the provider promises.
Basically, this feed comes without one. If we're happy with it,
great. If not, we're free to cancel the service.
Comcast did offer a 1.5 meg symmetric feed with what they called an
"SLA". However, the "SLA" only gave a refund schedule which kicked on
on unavailability. They never defined "available". Specifics about
things like committed rate, packet loss, and round trip time were
nowhere to be found. Sales rep couldn't provide more detail.
In short, if you need or want an SLA, Comcast is not the right choice.
SPEED
Advertised speed: Varies. The sales rep told me it would burst to
12 megabit down, 2 megabit up. The work order the installer brought
just says 6 megabit down, 768 kilobit up. Given that none of it is
guaranteed, that Comcast explicitly states it will vary and burst and
clamp, and that this is all just speeds to the nearest concentration
point, these numbers are pretty worthless anyway.
Further: Comcast employs a bursting algorithm that lets you get much
higher speeds at the start of a "download" (which I guess means TCP
connection). It clamps that down after a few seconds. I see that as
pretty reasonable behavior, since it makes web browsing *really* fast
without letting bandwidth hogs capsize the boat, and Comcast loudly
advertises they do this. ("SpeedBoost" is their trademark for it.)
But if your life consists of downloading disc images or other large
files, Your Mileage *Will* Vary.
At http://www.speedtest.net: To NYC, I get around 15 megabits down
and 2 up. To San Jose, around 10 down and 2 up. Those numbers are
also fairly artificial, since the providers make sure they're well
connected to the test sites, but at least they have *some* connection
to reality.
Downloading a 16 megabyte Symantec AV update package took 11 seconds
(roughly 12 megabit throughput). However, watching the numbers,
throughput started to take a real nose dive a few seconds in. See
above about bursting/clamping.
Downloading the CentOS 5 CD BitTorrent two weeks ago saw speeds
bounce all over the place. The swarm may have been unstable, or it
might have been general irregularities in the feed, or an artifact of
the burst/clamp algorithm. Dunno.
Interactive SSH performance seems pretty darn snappy.
Spot checking average RTT with ping: Geographically nearby hosts
seems to hover around 20 ms. Ditto for unicast East Coast root DNS
servers which respond to ping. anycast and West Coast servers vary
from 20 to 90 ms. (Keep in mind that the roots may not give ICMP a
high priority.)I see around 10 ms for UNH hosts. www at Google
and Yahoo around 20 ms.
FEED DELIVERY
The static IP is delivered via plain old Ethernet. Just configure
address, netmask, and default gateway, and go.
Comcast installed a small box that is a combination of cable modem,
IP router/firewall, and four port Ethernet switch. It says "Comcast"
and "SMC" on it. It appears to be a re-badged SMC SMC8014-BIZ, with
firmware modified for Comcast. They gave me a username/password to
manage my side of the box. Fairly typical SOHO firewall/router web
UI.
The box has multiple IP networks on the local side. One is the
static IP subnet. It's a CIDR /30 -- our own firewall gets an IP
address, plus the Comcast box has one. The other is an RFC-1918
network, a /24 subnet of the 10/8 net. The box does NAT for that.
There's also a DHCP server for the NAT net (web UI says you can turn
the DHCP off).
The web UI has options for firewall/NAT, including port forwarding
and triggering. According to the Comcast docs, I can actually use the
CPE's local side public IP address to forward ports to my equipment.
So I guess it's kind of like having one-and-a-half static IP
addresses.
SERVICE BLOCKING
Outbound SMTP, web, SSH, BitTorrent, etc., all appeared to work right away.
Inbound att
