Re: free software alternative to Access
Bill Sconce wrote: To which I'd add something (something which I'd have overlooked had not Guy Pardoe and Ted Roche just made it the subject of last week's excellent MonadLUG meeting): phpMyAdmin http://www.phpmyadmin.net/home_page/ It is billed as an administration tool (which is what it is, of course), but admin could mean prototyping or rapid app development. If you already know what you want to do phpMyAdmin provides data entry forms, SQL query construction, and a whole lot more, all right out of the box. Certainly not a replacement for Access, but a valuable tool - and for some (knowledgeable) folks it could do the job of getting a new app rolling. I second this. I had a project a couple of years back for a heavily data-driven web site. The client was very anxious to get started entering data long before I had the user interface done. So, I provided them access via phpMyAdmin to their database. They have been happily using it since then. I never even needed to create the user interface. It works quite well. It's not a finely polished front end, but perfectly adequate for data entry and browsing the data. -- Dan Jenkins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Rastech Inc., Bedford, NH, USA --- 1-603-206-9951 *** Technical Support for over a Quarter Century ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Database design question [was: free software alternative to Access]
All this talk about databases reminded me of a project I was working on a while back in which I had some fundamental database design questions, but not the time to properly research the answers. (of course, like all great projects driven by marketing, the immediate crisis which prompted the project was quickly solved by changing direction and subsequently resulted in them forgetting I was even doing anything to help them :( At any rate, I found myself trying to set up several tables for a database, but realized, that in general, other than gluing the tables together with basic SQL queries wrapped up in a spiffy perl CGI, I know next to nothing about proper database design. So, does anyone have any decent references or pointers to basic relational database design? I'm looking for something generic to SQL, and not tied to any specific implementation. Thanks. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Database design question [was: free software alternative to Access]
Paul, You could try: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/1558606726/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/103-8170352-9419859?%5Fencoding=UTF8customer-reviews.sort%5Fby=-SubmissionDaten=283155 Not sure about the above, but it seems highly rated (even though there are only 9 ratings). All the books that I've liked over the years have been Oracle specific like this one: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0072121203/qid=1113922379/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_10/103-8170352-9419859?v=glances=books WARNING!!! Discussion of software that costs money to use for business purposes follows!!! At Oracle we've been working on a tool to 'replace access' (it's not really there yet, it's more powerful in many ways and less user friendly in some ways) for a number of years. I think I even showed a version of it years ago (8 years ago?) at UNH to the group once. We now call the tool HTMLDB. It allows the development of applications with a web based front end against an Oracle database. It has some pretty nice features including the ability to copy a spreadsheet/access database into a form and have the tool automatically create tables (and lookup tables) for you. I'm guessing that this is kind of similar to the PHP web admin tools that others were talking about before, but hopefully it is a bit more powerful. HTMLDB on OTN: http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/database/htmldb/index.html Viewlet (flash) of HTMLDB in action: http://otn.oracle.com/products/database/htmldb/viewlets/htmldb_quicktour_viewlet.html As always you can download all Oracle software from http://otn.oralce.com for personal use without sending Oracle any money. (Here is the 'big daddy' of database design tools: http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/designer/index.html) We've also come up with a very low price point for Oracle Standard Edition One: $750 for 5 users (5 user minimum, each additional user would be $150) or $5,000/cpu for unlimited users with a limit of 2 cpus to compete with other companies that offer low cost 'databases'. And of course databases from Oracle really are ANSI SQL compliant. :) Rich Paul Lussier wrote: All this talk about databases reminded me of a project I was working on a while back in which I had some fundamental database design questions, but not the time to properly research the answers. (of course, like all great projects driven by marketing, the immediate crisis which prompted the project was quickly solved by changing direction and subsequently resulted in them forgetting I was even doing anything to help them :( At any rate, I found myself trying to set up several tables for a database, but realized, that in general, other than gluing the tables together with basic SQL queries wrapped up in a spiffy perl CGI, I know next to nothing about proper database design. So, does anyone have any decent references or pointers to basic relational database design? I'm looking for something generic to SQL, and not tied to any specific implementation. Thanks. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Database design question [was: free software alternative to Access]
Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, does anyone have any decent references or pointers to basic relational database design? I'm looking for something generic to SQL, and not tied to any specific implementation. The O'Reilly mSQL and MySQL book has a chapter or two that discusses this subject (in general, like you asked for) Regards, --kevin -- GnuPG ID: B280F24E And the madness of the crowd alumni.unh.edu!kdc Is an epileptic fit -- Tom Waits ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Database design question [was: free software alternative to Access]
On Apr 19, 2005, at 9:01 AM, Paul Lussier wrote: So, does anyone have any decent references or pointers to basic relational database design? I'm looking for something generic to SQL, and not tied to any specific implementation. That's what I do for a living, design database applications, and teach, mentor and develop the software that runs them. There's a 524Kb PDF white paper at my site at: http://www.tedroche.com/Present/2004/RocheDataDesign.pdf Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: free software alternative to Access
--- Bill McGonigle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2005, at 17:16, Jeff Smith wrote: it might be too easy - everyone does it, then expects it to be robust Aye, there's the rub - one might not expect it to be scalable, but it should at least be robust. Sadly, I've spent many an hour rescuing people from corrupted Access databases. The odd part is they're not terribly outraged that it happened in the first place - almost accepting. I realize which corner of the country Access comes from, but if postgres borked my database I'm be a few notches higher than miffed, as would the postgres dev team (after they blame my hardware, of course). I should have used scalable instead of robust. Ideally,the Access design tools would have been designed separately from the db engine. You plug in the db of your choice on the back end. Alas, I'm told you can do that, but I haven't met anyone who a) has done it, or b) can show / explain how to do it. I don't expect ooofice's XML database to be a speed demon, but I certain do expect that it won't destroy itself. Oops, preaching to the pastor again. Suspect it won't, or if it does, the FLOSS community will fix it. Of course, as I said above, I hope the tools allow plugging in postgresql (my choice of db) in place of hsdb (or whatever the name is for that java db they use). jeff ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: free software alternative to Access
Peter Dobratz wrote: Does anyone know of any free software packages that we can use? Basically, we have hikers and teams of hikers that raise money. We want to keep track of how much money each hiker contributed, and keep their names and addresses, so that we can mail them a brochure for next year's hike. Most of the laptops that people own or borrow for the event have some version of windows on them. Some sort of bootable CD with USB flash drives for the datastore might be optimal. --Peter Well, it isn't a replacement for Access because it is a whole lot better :-) but I'd recommend using MySQL. It runs well on Windows, if that's what you have to use, and has an ODBC component to provide easy interfacing to Office applications (assuming that's important to you.) It also has a GUI interface that you can download, for free, from the MySQL website and that GUI also runs on Windows (and Linux, of course.) You can even put the MySQL database on a Linux server and access it via ODBC from Windows if you like. The main problem, of course, is that it doesn't break as often as Access or have the lame restrictions on scalability of Access. But you can probably manage to live with that... Dan begin:vcard fn:Dan Coutu n:Coutu;Dan org:Snowy Owl Consulting, LLC adr:;;P.O. Box 349;Derby;VT;05829;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Managing Director tel;cell:802-309-4781 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.snowy-owl.com/ version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: free software alternative to Access
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:03:23 -0400 Dan Coutu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Dobratz wrote: Does anyone know of any free software packages that we can use? Basically, we have hikers and teams of hikers that raise money. We want to keep track of how much money each hiker contributed, and keep their names and addresses, so that we can mail them a brochure for next year's hike. Most of the laptops that people own or borrow for the event have some version of windows on them. Some sort of bootable CD with USB flash drives for the datastore might be optimal. --Peter Well, it isn't a replacement for Access because it is a whole lot better :-) but I'd recommend using MySQL. It runs well on Windows, if that's what you have to use, and has an ODBC component to provide easy interfacing to Office applications (assuming that's important to you.) It also has a GUI interface that you can download, for free, from the MySQL website and that GUI also runs on Windows (and Linux, of course.) You can even put the MySQL database on a Linux server and access it via ODBC from Windows if you like. The main problem, of course, is that it doesn't break as often as Access or have the lame restrictions on scalability of Access. But you can probably manage to live with that... Dan To which I'd add something (something which I'd have overlooked had not Guy Pardoe and Ted Roche just made it the subject of last week's excellent MonadLUG meeting): phpMyAdmin http://www.phpmyadmin.net/home_page/ It is billed as an administration tool (which is what it is, of course), but admin could mean prototyping or rapid app development. If you already know what you want to do phpMyAdmin provides data entry forms, SQL query construction, and a whole lot more, all right out of the box. Certainly not a replacement for Access, but a valuable tool - and for some (knowledgeable) folks it could do the job of getting a new app rolling. You'll have to force any crashes your client needs to feel at home, of course. Pulling the power plug might help... -Bill ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: free software alternative to Access
Jeff Smith wrote: I should have used scalable instead of robust. Ideally,the Access design tools would have been designed separately from the db engine. You plug in the db of your choice on the back end. Alas, I'm told you can do that, but I haven't met anyone who a) has done it, or b) can show / explain how to do it. I've done it. It's relatively easy with ODBC. I've had an Access front end application that I created talk to a MS SQL Server 2000 database. You should be able to hook your Access front end up to any database server provided that you have an ODBC driver for your database. I know that they are available for MySQL, and most likely Prostgres as well. I've not used MySQL with Access but have used ODBC to connect to a MySQL server running on Linux from a Windows computer using a custom front end. If you'd like some help with this, you can contact me off list. Cheers, Jason ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: free software alternative to Access
Hey all, FYI, my clients have had problems with Access=MySQL or Access=PostgreSQL ODBC connections. Going Access-to-PostgreSQL, for example, is not like going Access-to-SQL-Server - SQL Server is designed for that; MySQL and PostgreSQL are not. Part of this is due to how closely related Access is with JET, and part of it is because none of the above - Access, MySQL, or PostgreSQL - are a strict, fully compliant SQL-89 or SQL-92 implementations. Access works great for running queries and returning the result, but relationships don't work properly, data bound controls don't work, and much of the user-friendly-ness of Access disappears. For example, you can usually edit a simple Access query - this is definitely not true of a PostgreSQL VIEW, and strange things and confusing things happen when you open a query in Access. All in all, it's a distinctly unpleasant experience for the user and for the developer. I'm using the PostgreSQL ODBC connectors for several projects right now. Much of ADO simply doesn't work - bound countrols and some of the ADO classes, for example. Generally, however, the broken technology doens't pose a problem - databound controls are bad. A custom front end can hide the clunkiness well, and if your code is well written, you should be all set. Ignoring the problems with an end-user accessing the database directly, I'd recommend going with phpMyAdmin or phpPgAdmin as a replacement for Access. My clients who've wanted direct access to their data - for whatever reason - have been happy with both products. Take it easy, -- David Berube Berube Consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] (603)-485-9622 http://www.berubeconsulting.com/ Jason Stephenson wrote: Jeff Smith wrote: I should have used scalable instead of robust. Ideally,the Access design tools would have been designed separately from the db engine. You plug in the db of your choice on the back end. Alas, I'm told you can do that, but I haven't met anyone who a) has done it, or b) can show / explain how to do it. I've done it. It's relatively easy with ODBC. I've had an Access front end application that I created talk to a MS SQL Server 2000 database. You should be able to hook your Access front end up to any database server provided that you have an ODBC driver for your database. I know that they are available for MySQL, and most likely Prostgres as well. I've not used MySQL with Access but have used ODBC to connect to a MySQL server running on Linux from a Windows computer using a custom front end. If you'd like some help with this, you can contact me off list. Cheers, Jason ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: free software alternative to Access
Peter Dobratz wrote: I'm working with the Greater Nashua Habitat for Humanity. We have an annual fundraiser that includes many affiliates from New Hampshire and Northeastern Massachusetts. Our current solution to take registration information uses a Microsoft Access Database that one of our members developed. Although our primary focus is having something that gets the job done, I would prefer to use free software where possible. It's disappointing to have to tell people that they can't use the software we developed because they bought the standard version of MS Office, which does not include Access. There are ways of getting discount prices for software for non-profits, but any money we spend on software is money that can't go towards building houses. Does anyone know of any free software packages that we can use? Basically, we have hikers and teams of hikers that raise money. We want to keep track of how much money each hiker contributed, and keep their names and addresses, so that we can mail them a brochure for next year's hike. Most of the laptops that people own or borrow for the event have some version of windows on them. Some sort of bootable CD with USB flash drives for the datastore might be optimal. OpenOffice 2.0 beta has a database feature. It is available for multiplatforms. OpenOffice.org always had database frontend tools, but in past versions they were very hidden. OpenOffice.org 2.0 starts to handle databases like any other application, i.e. a new database can be created via the File - New menu. For novice users OpenOffice.org provides a new Table Wizard that allows to create database tables without any knowledge of databases and SQL. The new embedded Java technology based HSQLDB http://hsqldb.sourceforge.net/ database engine allows to create database documents. These simple database files don't require a backend database server like MySQL or Adabas D. All information (table definitions, data, queries, forms, reports) is stored in one XML file. I have not used this feature yet. There are undoubtedly many more options, but that's the first one that comes to my mind. -- Dan Jenkins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Rastech Inc., Bedford, NH, USA --- 1-603-206-9951 *** Technical Support for over a Quarter Century ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: free software alternative to Access
On Apr 17, 2005, at 17:16, Jeff Smith wrote: it might be too easy - everyone does it, then expects it to be robust Aye, there's the rub - one might not expect it to be scalable, but it should at least be robust. Sadly, I've spent many an hour rescuing people from corrupted Access databases. The odd part is they're not terribly outraged that it happened in the first place - almost accepting. I realize which corner of the country Access comes from, but if postgres borked my database I'm be a few notches higher than miffed, as would the postgres dev team (after they blame my hardware, of course). I don't expect ooofice's XML database to be a speed demon, but I certain do expect that it won't destroy itself. Oops, preaching to the pastor again. -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Pager: 603.442.1833 AIM: wpmcgonigleSkype: bill_mcgonigle For fastest support contact, please follow: http://bfccomputing.com/support_contact.html ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
free software alternative to Access
I'm working with the Greater Nashua Habitat for Humanity. We have an annual fundraiser that includes many affiliates from New Hampshire and Northeastern Massachusetts. Our current solution to take registration information uses a Microsoft Access Database that one of our members developed. Although our primary focus is having something that gets the job done, I would prefer to use free software where possible. It's disappointing to have to tell people that they can't use the software we developed because they bought the standard version of MS Office, which does not include Access. There are ways of getting discount prices for software for non-profits, but any money we spend on software is money that can't go towards building houses. Does anyone know of any free software packages that we can use? Basically, we have hikers and teams of hikers that raise money. We want to keep track of how much money each hiker contributed, and keep their names and addresses, so that we can mail them a brochure for next year's hike. Most of the laptops that people own or borrow for the event have some version of windows on them. Some sort of bootable CD with USB flash drives for the datastore might be optimal. --Peter ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
