Re: mythtv and digital tv
Derek Atkins writes: The biggest difference is that cable companies can choose to encrypt their QAM, which means you either need a cablebox or a device with a cablecard. As far as I know no device usable by mythtv directly can use a cablecard without having yet another Digital-Analog-Digital conversion. The 2nd biggest difference is cable companies tend to re-compress the heck out of their digital channels to squeeze as many channels into as little bandwidth as possible. Still, just 1-2 HDTV channels on cable is on the order of what is devoted to Internet bandwidth (10-12mbps). Imagine if the cable companies dropped all TV (both analog and digital) and did only broadband Internet over coax. Throw in some 20mbps+ IPTV steams via multicast and it'd give FIOS some competition. As mentioned before comcast at least does the broadcast channels QAM unencrypted in both SD and HD which my pcHDTV HD3000 grabs bit-for-bit off the wire just fine. Way better quality then having the SD cable box decode the QAM MPEG2 sent over horrible composite video/RCA audio (stupid cable box doesn't even have svideo) into my PVR250 which then re-encodes them back into MPEG2. -- Dave ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
Jarod Wilson wrote: On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 21:17 -0400, Ben Scott wrote: On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the HDHomeRun card ... Just to make sure it's clear, the HDHomeRun isn't a card, it's an external box (about the size of a cigar box). It uses a wall-wart type power supply transformer. If the card had hardware encoding it would be perfect. Encoding or decoding? For digital broadcast -- be it cable or ATSC OTA -- the stream is already encoded and compressed as part of the transmission process. There's no need for an encoder. The HDHomeRun is digital only; it doesn't even have an NTSC tuner. So, to the best of understanding, the HDHomeRun has no use for a hardware encoder. The HD-5500 does have an NTSC tuner; I don't know if it has a hardware encoder or not. It does not. Its only much more recently that cards with both digital and analog support also included a hardware encoder for the analog side. The only one I know for sure actually works under linux is the Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600 though. For decoding, I believe you'd still be able to use the small quiet diskless box frontend. The one thing I'm not sure about is: I expect not all hardware decoders are created equal. It may be the decoder in your front-end box can't handle this new-fangeled high-def stuff. Definitely a concern. It takes a heck of a lot more for decoding HDTV than SDTV. Although not nearly so much as it used to. My frontend is a mere core duo 1.66 with intel gma950 graphics, and it handles the job just fine. Small quiet diskless often implies a Via processor though... Which may or may not be enough, depending on the video chipset, the openchrome driver, and the options mythtv was built with... The frontent is a via 1G. Current mpeg playback takes about 25% of the cpu. myth / xorg is using the openchrome driver. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
Ben Scott wrote: On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the HDHomeRun card ... Just to make sure it's clear, the HDHomeRun isn't a card, it's an external box (about the size of a cigar box). It uses a wall-wart type power supply transformer. If the card had hardware encoding it would be perfect. Encoding or decoding? Encoding on the backend where the card goes. http://www.pchdtv.com/hd_5500.html The HD-5500 Hi Definition Television PCI Card is an universal PCI 2.2 compliant card. The card receives NTSC, ATSC and Cable/QAM Signals and converts them to digital streams which are transported across the PCI bus. Display and MPEG2 decoding are done on the host computer For digital broadcast -- be it cable or ATSC OTA -- the stream is already encoded and compressed as part of the transmission process. There's no need for an encoder. The description isn't clear about writing the streams to disk. The goal is to write mpeg2 files to the server for playback like the pvr-250 does via its encoder. I'd like to believe that the term digital streams means mpg2/aac but the term digital streams isn't defined on the site. I'll check some mythtv sites about this card to see what is involved. The HDHomeRun is digital only; it doesn't even have an NTSC tuner. So, to the best of understanding, the HDHomeRun has no use for a hardware encoder. The HD-5500 does have an NTSC tuner; I don't know if it has a hardware encoder or not. Presumably, if you're buying an HD-5500, the plan is to switch to digital TV, so NTSC shouldn't matter. Also true. I would not be using an ntsc tuner. For decoding, I believe you'd still be able to use the small quiet diskless box frontend. The one thing I'm not sure about is: I expect not all hardware decoders are created equal. It may be the decoder in your front-end box can't handle this new-fangeled high-def stuff. The only prediction I have here is probably OK. playback of the recordings I make today (ntsc analog to mpg2/aac at 48K sampling - file is a bout 2G per hour) takes 25% of the via cpu while using the mpeg decoder chip. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
I'm guessing he would need to upgrade the frontend boxes. When I attempt to play my records from HDHomeRun on an Athlon 2800+ box w/nvidia fx 5200 card the mythfrontend process consumes about 80-90% cpu. If I do anything else on the box it's all over and the playback gets jittery. Going all digital/HD is expensive :) On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For decoding, I believe you'd still be able to use the small quiet diskless box frontend. The one thing I'm not sure about is: I expect not all hardware decoders are created equal. It may be the decoder in your front-end box can't handle this new-fangeled high-def stuff. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On Fri, 2008-07-25 at 07:11 -0400, Frank DiPrete wrote: Ben Scott wrote: On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the HDHomeRun card ... Just to make sure it's clear, the HDHomeRun isn't a card, it's an external box (about the size of a cigar box). It uses a wall-wart type power supply transformer. If the card had hardware encoding it would be perfect. Encoding or decoding? Encoding on the backend where the card goes. http://www.pchdtv.com/hd_5500.html The HD-5500 Hi Definition Television PCI Card is an universal PCI 2.2 compliant card. The card receives NTSC, ATSC and Cable/QAM Signals and converts them to digital streams which are transported across the PCI bus. Display and MPEG2 decoding are done on the host computer For digital broadcast -- be it cable or ATSC OTA -- the stream is already encoded and compressed as part of the transmission process. There's no need for an encoder. The description isn't clear about writing the streams to disk. The goal is to write mpeg2 files to the server for playback like the pvr-250 does via its encoder. I'd like to believe that the term digital streams means mpg2/aac but the term digital streams isn't defined on the site. I'll check some mythtv sites about this card to see what is involved. Digital streams definitely means mpeg2 here. HDTV (and all digital video) over the air and on cable in the US is always mpeg2, encoded as such as the head end. Digital tuner cards more or less simply tune into a broadcast mpeg2 transport stream and dump it to disk. For decoding, I believe you'd still be able to use the small quiet diskless box frontend. The one thing I'm not sure about is: I expect not all hardware decoders are created equal. It may be the decoder in your front-end box can't handle this new-fangeled high-def stuff. The only prediction I have here is probably OK. playback of the recordings I make today (ntsc analog to mpg2/aac at 48K sampling - file is a bout 2G per hour) takes 25% of the via cpu while using the mpeg decoder chip. Depends heavily on the generation of your video controller... Many of the unichrome video chipset mpeg2 decoders can't handle larger than 720x480 streams. I forget which one is which anymore, but the first-gen one on an EPIA M1 board definitely doesn't cut it (I have one). I believe unichrome pro II definitely *should* be able to, others, not sure.. -- Jarod Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:11 AM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Encoding or decoding? Encoding on the backend where the card goes. If you're capturing digital TV (OTA or cable), no encoding is needed. The stream is already encoded, digitized, compressed, folded, spindled, and mutilated. This doesn't mean encoding is done on the host CPU; it means there's no encoding to do, period. This is *why* there's a big push to switch over to digital TV, even for standard definition channels. Digital TV uses a lot less bandwidth than analog NTSC, because it's compressed. They can fit something like six standard definition digital channels into the bandwidth consumed by one NTSC analog channel. The only way the host CPU would be doing any encoding would be if you wanted to transcode to a different format, e.g., for a player that doesn't do MPEG, or something like that. The goal is to write mpeg2 files to the server for playback like the pvr-250 does via its encoder. I'd like to believe that the term digital streams means mpg2/aac ... ATSC is MPEG-2 video and AC-3 audio. I've read digital cable is basically ATSC with different modulation and a few extra tweaks. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
Quoting Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The goal is to write mpeg2 files to the server for playback like the pvr-250 does via its encoder. I'd like to believe that the term digital streams means mpg2/aac ... ATSC is MPEG-2 video and AC-3 audio. I've read digital cable is basically ATSC with different modulation and a few extra tweaks. Correct. Cable uses QAM modulation (instead of VSB-8, which is what gets used for over-the-air ATSC transmission). The data stream is effectively the same as you'd get for over-the-air digital, MPEG-2 transport stream. The biggest difference is that cable companies can choose to encrypt their QAM, which means you either need a cablebox or a device with a cablecard. As far as I know no device usable by mythtv directly can use a cablecard without having yet another Digital-Analog-Digital conversion. So for example, for SD you could have mythtv control a cablebox and then read it in via a PVR-250. For HD you could effectively do the same but use an HD-PVR box. But if your cable company is really nice (RCN no longer falls under this category) then they don't encrypt your QAM and you could just plug an HD-Homerun directly into your cable. *sighs* -- Ben -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH [EMAIL PROTECTED]PGP key available ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
Jarod Wilson wrote: On Fri, 2008-07-25 at 07:11 -0400, Frank DiPrete wrote: Ben Scott wrote: On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the HDHomeRun card ... Just to make sure it's clear, the HDHomeRun isn't a card, it's an external box (about the size of a cigar box). It uses a wall-wart type power supply transformer. If the card had hardware encoding it would be perfect. Encoding or decoding? Encoding on the backend where the card goes. http://www.pchdtv.com/hd_5500.html The HD-5500 Hi Definition Television PCI Card is an universal PCI 2.2 compliant card. The card receives NTSC, ATSC and Cable/QAM Signals and converts them to digital streams which are transported across the PCI bus. Display and MPEG2 decoding are done on the host computer For digital broadcast -- be it cable or ATSC OTA -- the stream is already encoded and compressed as part of the transmission process. There's no need for an encoder. The description isn't clear about writing the streams to disk. The goal is to write mpeg2 files to the server for playback like the pvr-250 does via its encoder. I'd like to believe that the term digital streams means mpg2/aac but the term digital streams isn't defined on the site. I'll check some mythtv sites about this card to see what is involved. Digital streams definitely means mpeg2 here. HDTV (and all digital video) over the air and on cable in the US is always mpeg2, encoded as such as the head end. Digital tuner cards more or less simply tune into a broadcast mpeg2 transport stream and dump it to disk. For decoding, I believe you'd still be able to use the small quiet diskless box frontend. The one thing I'm not sure about is: I expect not all hardware decoders are created equal. It may be the decoder in your front-end box can't handle this new-fangeled high-def stuff. The only prediction I have here is probably OK. playback of the recordings I make today (ntsc analog to mpg2/aac at 48K sampling - file is a bout 2G per hour) takes 25% of the via cpu while using the mpeg decoder chip. Depends heavily on the generation of your video controller... Many of the unichrome video chipset mpeg2 decoders can't handle larger than 720x480 streams. I forget which one is which anymore, but the first-gen one on an EPIA M1 board definitely doesn't cut it (I have one). I believe unichrome pro II definitely *should* be able to, others, not sure.. crap! I have an M1K super valuable info. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
Ben Scott wrote: On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:11 AM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Encoding or decoding? Encoding on the backend where the card goes. If you're capturing digital TV (OTA or cable), no encoding is needed. The stream is already encoded, digitized, compressed, folded, spindled, and mutilated. This doesn't mean encoding is done on the host CPU; it means there's no encoding to do, period. This is *why* there's a big push to switch over to digital TV, even for standard definition channels. Digital TV uses a lot less bandwidth than analog NTSC, because it's compressed. They can fit something like six standard definition digital channels into the bandwidth consumed by one NTSC analog channel. The only way the host CPU would be doing any encoding would be if you wanted to transcode to a different format, e.g., for a player that doesn't do MPEG, or something like that. The goal is to write mpeg2 files to the server for playback like the pvr-250 does via its encoder. I'd like to believe that the term digital streams means mpg2/aac ... ATSC is MPEG-2 video and AC-3 audio. I've read digital cable is basically ATSC with different modulation and a few extra tweaks. -- Ben Thanks again - I checked to make sure that mythtv 0.20-2 compiles with the dvb option to support the card and it does. Now whether I can use the card to receive the programming is another story. Seems to be shrouded in mystery. Thanks to this thread I now know that my frontend via M1K will choke on playback even if I can receive the signal. arg. - denotes pirate project. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On 7/25/08, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks to this thread I now know that my frontend via M1K will choke on playback even if I can receive the signal. As I understand it, that would only apply to high-definition programming. If you capture only standard-definition programming, the M1K will still be able to play it back, same as it does now. I think. I have an HD-5550 I'm not using at the moment. (One of my many half-completed projects.) You can borrow it for testing if you like, so long as you give it back to me in the same condition. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
Jarod Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anybody out there using a digital tuner card (pci) with mythtv or perhaps a fourth friggin box ? I use nothing *but* digital tuner cards these days. However, the only channels available in unencrypted digital are the same ones you'd get over the air. You need a set top box of some sort, feeding either something like a pvr-250 via svid or an hd box feeding the hauppauge hd-pvr to record anything but abc/nbc/cbs/fox/pbs/etc. Or to get lucky and have provider who doesn't encrypt things, either in their on-wire digital format (very rare) or out the firewire port on an hd cable box (only slightly less rare than the prior loophole). Unfortunately that's not exactly true either. At least on RCN I can get more HD over-the-air than I can via unencrypted QAM. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH [EMAIL PROTECTED]PGP key available ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
Ben Scott wrote: On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It looks like it's time to switch tv service. I am using basic analog cable and Comcrap has been eliminating channels from the lineup to use the bandwidth for their digital tv service. Obtain (e.g., purchase) TVs or other equipment which supports the CableCARD standard. Per FCC rule, cable operators are required to provide a single CableCARD for each cable outlet, at no additional cost. You won't get high definition programming or the additional channels that Comcast's digital cable packages offer, but you'll be able to tune your existing channels digitally, without giving more money to Comcast. No equipment rental, no Comcast set-top box, no added programming fees. Disclaimer: The above may be inaccurate. But it's what I was told, and it seemed to check out when I upgraded my TV and TiVo. I ended up spending the extra $7/month for the first tier digital cable package to get the high-def and additional channels. But before they successfully up-sold me on that, it wasn't going to cost me anything extra for my first CableCARD. (I actually need two CableCARD's for the TiVo model I have. The second costs me... $3/month, I think. The original high-def TiVo models (of which mine is) do not support M-Cards (Multi-Stream CableCARDs). Since the TiVo has two QAM tuners, I need two cards. The newer high-def TiVo models work with just one M-Card.) To sum it up, comcrap customers are forced to pay to solve their technical problem. How is it their problem? It's often leading to people buying additional services from them. Seems like a win for Comcast. The problem is, it's *our* problem. :-( .. that's what I mean. Here's the rub. I'm using a pvr-250 in my mythtv setup and that becomes a brick when in any of the 3 scenarios. There are some options for QAM tuners (digital cable) that work with Linux. The drawback is, anything encrypted by the local cable operator will not be receivable. I've been told that most of the basic cable channels in this area are still coming QAM in the clear. As long as that holds true, you should be able to upgrade your existing MythTV box for QAM and get your existing programming digitally. Again, no high-def or extra channels, but no additional recurring chargers, either. The two products which seem to be best for MythTV are: (1) HDHomeRun, from SiliconDust (http://www.silicondust.com/). Two QAM tuners in a small box, attached via Ethernet. This has a lot of advantages: No host PC compatibility issues; relatively future-proof; you can put the tuners far away from your MythTV box if needed. Disadvantages: Somewhat more expensive; LAN become TV problems. (2) HD-5500, from pcHDTV (http://www.pchdtv.com/). PCI card. Specifically designed to work with Linux. Microsoft Windows is not supported. Hope this helps, -- Ben That helps - thanks Ben I checked the HD-5500 : MPEG2 decoding are done on the host computer in software arg. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:45 AM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I checked the HD-5500 : MPEG2 decoding are done on the host computer in software I think that applies to most solutions these days. Input (tune, capture, encode) is considered separate from output (decode, display). There's a lot of arguments for that approach: You can add multiple input devices without paying for output hardware you only need once. Many video cards these days have decoders in them already. Most computers these days have enough CPU power to do decoding in software. The HDHomeRun doesn't even have video out. :) If you want hardware decoding, presumably your existing card already has that, and you can just use it as an output-only device. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On 7/23/08, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't get fios where I live so I can: a) keep paying the same top dollar for diminishing analog cable service b) pay more for comcrap digital cable tv and 3 set top boxes c) switch to sat tv (dish) and pay for 3 set top boxes None of those brick your pvr-250. It would just need to connect via IR or serial to change channels. Now, if you wanted HD content, that wouldn't even brick your pvr-250. You just would be able to DVR HD channels. -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
Thomas Charron wrote: On 7/23/08, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't get fios where I live so I can: a) keep paying the same top dollar for diminishing analog cable service b) pay more for comcrap digital cable tv and 3 set top boxes c) switch to sat tv (dish) and pay for 3 set top boxes None of those brick your pvr-250. It would just need to connect via IR or serial to change channels. Now, if you wanted HD content, that wouldn't even brick your pvr-250. You just would be able to DVR HD channels. so serial to change channels on another setop box on my mythbackend server to make an analog recording of digital cable. so not a brick but more like a paver. arg. anybody have experience with the dish network dvr? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
Ben Scott wrote: On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:45 AM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I checked the HD-5500 : MPEG2 decoding are done on the host computer in software I think that applies to most solutions these days. Input (tune, capture, encode) is considered separate from output (decode, display). There's a lot of arguments for that approach: You can add multiple input devices without paying for output hardware you only need once. Many video cards these days have decoders in them already. Most computers these days have enough CPU power to do decoding in software. The HDHomeRun doesn't even have video out. :) If you want hardware decoding, presumably your existing card already has that, and you can just use it as an output-only device. -- Ben time to describe my mythtv setup here. The recording is done on a big loud backend server with lots of disk space racked in my office (aka man land) using the mpg2 encoder chip on the pvr-250. Makes great mpg files that can be put directly onto a dvd without transcoding btw. Playback is on a small quiet diskless box frontend which gets the recorded mpg files over the lan and plays them back using it's integrated mpeg decoder and tv-out (via mini-itx box). This would become the second brick (or paver) if I used a rented dvr. I also pick up recordings on laptops / pc's with myth frontend. (that's my fav feature of mythtv - it's client/server). This would go buh-bye also if I used the motorola model p.o.s dvr. I've got power on the p4 ht server for software encoding, but I switched to the pvr-250 from an older model without hardware encoding because it slammed my cpu and made recordings not nearly is good. I like the HDHomeRun card because I would not have to get a fourth box for the recording server. I also like that it is digital signal in with a tuner instead of making an analog recording from an external digital tuner. I'm not worried about pay channels per say but if something like sci-fi is scrambled for the hell of it it would impact me. This idea is superior to renting another tuner to make analog recordings. If the card had hardware encoding it would be perfect. Btw - I am thinking Dish rather then Comcast here. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the HDHomeRun card ... Just to make sure it's clear, the HDHomeRun isn't a card, it's an external box (about the size of a cigar box). It uses a wall-wart type power supply transformer. If the card had hardware encoding it would be perfect. Encoding or decoding? For digital broadcast -- be it cable or ATSC OTA -- the stream is already encoded and compressed as part of the transmission process. There's no need for an encoder. The HDHomeRun is digital only; it doesn't even have an NTSC tuner. So, to the best of understanding, the HDHomeRun has no use for a hardware encoder. The HD-5500 does have an NTSC tuner; I don't know if it has a hardware encoder or not. Presumably, if you're buying an HD-5500, the plan is to switch to digital TV, so NTSC shouldn't matter. For decoding, I believe you'd still be able to use the small quiet diskless box frontend. The one thing I'm not sure about is: I expect not all hardware decoders are created equal. It may be the decoder in your front-end box can't handle this new-fangeled high-def stuff. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Charron wrote: On 7/23/08, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, if you wanted HD content, that wouldn't even brick your pvr-250. You just would be able to DVR HD channels. so serial to change channels on another setop box on my mythbackend server to make an analog recording of digital cable. so not a brick but more like a paver. arg. anybody have experience with the dish network dvr? Bah, 480i doesn't matter much going thru dig-Analog-dig -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the HDHomeRun card because I would not have to get a fourth box for the recording server. I also like that it is digital signal in with a tuner instead of making an analog recording from an external digital tuner. I'm not worried about pay channels per say but if something like sci-fi is scrambled for the hell of it it would impact me. This idea is superior to renting another tuner to make analog recordings. If the card had hardware encoding it would be perfect. Btw - I am thinking Dish rather then Comcast here. Beside's CableCARD setups that Ben was talking about, I know of no cheap way to capture HD content, specifically, none on Sat. HDHomeRun will not work for Sat. -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 21:17 -0400, Ben Scott wrote: On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the HDHomeRun card ... Just to make sure it's clear, the HDHomeRun isn't a card, it's an external box (about the size of a cigar box). It uses a wall-wart type power supply transformer. If the card had hardware encoding it would be perfect. Encoding or decoding? For digital broadcast -- be it cable or ATSC OTA -- the stream is already encoded and compressed as part of the transmission process. There's no need for an encoder. The HDHomeRun is digital only; it doesn't even have an NTSC tuner. So, to the best of understanding, the HDHomeRun has no use for a hardware encoder. The HD-5500 does have an NTSC tuner; I don't know if it has a hardware encoder or not. It does not. Its only much more recently that cards with both digital and analog support also included a hardware encoder for the analog side. The only one I know for sure actually works under linux is the Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600 though. For decoding, I believe you'd still be able to use the small quiet diskless box frontend. The one thing I'm not sure about is: I expect not all hardware decoders are created equal. It may be the decoder in your front-end box can't handle this new-fangeled high-def stuff. Definitely a concern. It takes a heck of a lot more for decoding HDTV than SDTV. Although not nearly so much as it used to. My frontend is a mere core duo 1.66 with intel gma950 graphics, and it handles the job just fine. Small quiet diskless often implies a Via processor though... Which may or may not be enough, depending on the video chipset, the openchrome driver, and the options mythtv was built with... -- Jarod Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
mythtv and digital tv
It looks like it's time to switch tv service. I am using basic analog cable and Comcrap has been eliminating channels from the lineup to use the bandwidth for their digital tv service. Of course they kept all of the ^$*-ing shopping channels in tact. To sum it up, comcrap customers are forced to pay to solve their technical problem. I can't get fios where I live so I can: a) keep paying the same top dollar for diminishing analog cable service b) pay more for comcrap digital cable tv and 3 set top boxes c) switch to sat tv (dish) and pay for 3 set top boxes Here's the rub. I'm using a pvr-250 in my mythtv setup and that becomes a brick when in any of the 3 scenarios. Anybody out there using a digital tuner card (pci) with mythtv or perhaps a fourth friggin box ? I suppose I could chuck mythtv and use the motorola model P.O.S dvr with comcast. My thoughts: a) losing mythtv would kind of suck b) the moto dvr definately sucks. I've seen it in action. c) upgrading with comcrap feels like extortion - because it is. I have phone, internet and tv with comcrap. I wouldn't mind giving all 3 the boot if I switch. Technical thoughts, service vendor reviews, and general comcast bashing welcome. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
To sum it up, comcrap customers are forced to pay to solve their technical problem. This would be true if you were using analog OTA channels, you still need a digital tuner. Anybody out there using a digital tuner card (pci) with mythtv or perhaps a fourth friggin box ? I know Kenta is using an HDHomeRun. That supports an ATSC and QAM tuner so you'll get OTA and digital cable cannels. I suppose I could chuck mythtv and use the motorola model P.O.S dvr with comcast. You can get TiVo on yhe Motorola set top box. That's what I have. It still has some quirks but I think it's worlds better than the Comcast DVR. * I work for Comcast ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
Travis Roy wrote: To sum it up, comcrap customers are forced to pay to solve their technical problem. This would be true if you were using analog OTA channels, you still need a digital tuner. but I'm not so it still is. Anybody out there using a digital tuner card (pci) with mythtv or perhaps a fourth friggin box ? I know Kenta is using an HDHomeRun. That supports an ATSC and QAM tuner so you'll get OTA and digital cable cannels. good to know - my myth setup is a pretty good low fee dvr. buying a tuner is better than renting a 4th box and jury rigging the channel select - and still not be able to use the digital out. (I've seen some threads stating that the set top box is crippled in this way.) I suppose I could chuck mythtv and use the motorola model P.O.S dvr with comcast. You can get TiVo on yhe Motorola set top box. That's what I have. It still has some quirks but I think it's worlds better than the Comcast DVR. tivo .. hmm. better than the model pos dvr but with a cost higher than my current setup. Is that digital out into the tivo or analog? * I work for Comcast My sincere condolences ;) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Frank DiPrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It looks like it's time to switch tv service. I am using basic analog cable and Comcrap has been eliminating channels from the lineup to use the bandwidth for their digital tv service. Obtain (e.g., purchase) TVs or other equipment which supports the CableCARD standard. Per FCC rule, cable operators are required to provide a single CableCARD for each cable outlet, at no additional cost. You won't get high definition programming or the additional channels that Comcast's digital cable packages offer, but you'll be able to tune your existing channels digitally, without giving more money to Comcast. No equipment rental, no Comcast set-top box, no added programming fees. Disclaimer: The above may be inaccurate. But it's what I was told, and it seemed to check out when I upgraded my TV and TiVo. I ended up spending the extra $7/month for the first tier digital cable package to get the high-def and additional channels. But before they successfully up-sold me on that, it wasn't going to cost me anything extra for my first CableCARD. (I actually need two CableCARD's for the TiVo model I have. The second costs me... $3/month, I think. The original high-def TiVo models (of which mine is) do not support M-Cards (Multi-Stream CableCARDs). Since the TiVo has two QAM tuners, I need two cards. The newer high-def TiVo models work with just one M-Card.) To sum it up, comcrap customers are forced to pay to solve their technical problem. How is it their problem? It's often leading to people buying additional services from them. Seems like a win for Comcast. The problem is, it's *our* problem. :-( Here's the rub. I'm using a pvr-250 in my mythtv setup and that becomes a brick when in any of the 3 scenarios. There are some options for QAM tuners (digital cable) that work with Linux. The drawback is, anything encrypted by the local cable operator will not be receivable. I've been told that most of the basic cable channels in this area are still coming QAM in the clear. As long as that holds true, you should be able to upgrade your existing MythTV box for QAM and get your existing programming digitally. Again, no high-def or extra channels, but no additional recurring chargers, either. The two products which seem to be best for MythTV are: (1) HDHomeRun, from SiliconDust (http://www.silicondust.com/). Two QAM tuners in a small box, attached via Ethernet. This has a lot of advantages: No host PC compatibility issues; relatively future-proof; you can put the tuners far away from your MythTV box if needed. Disadvantages: Somewhat more expensive; LAN become TV problems. (2) HD-5500, from pcHDTV (http://www.pchdtv.com/). PCI card. Specifically designed to work with Linux. Microsoft Windows is not supported. Hope this helps, -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Travis Roy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can get TiVo on yhe Motorola set top box. A friend of mine got that, and I spent a few minutes trying it out. My cursory impresion: It appears to basically be the Motorola/Comcast DVR box, with a TiVo theme or skin in the software. It isn't the familar TiVo hardware; the box looked just like all the other Moto set-top boxes I've seen. The software still had the craptacular response time to remote control button presses. I'm used to the TiVo's practically instant response, and so that drives me absolutely batty. It also lacked all but the most basic TiVo features. I think it had WishLists (standing keyword searches), but that's about it. No Multi-Room Viewing. No Internet video/podcast downloads. No streaming Internet radio. No home photo/music/video playback on the TiVo. No TiVoToGo. No third-party extensions via TiVo Desktop software. The high-def TiVo boxes are not cheap ($300 box + $400 lifetime service = $700), but at least once you've bought it, it stays bought. The rates won't go up. After 3-4 years, that purchase cost will break even with Comcast DVR rental. Not great, but worth considering, I think. The one thing the Comcast TiVo has which my Series 3 doesn't is support for OnDemand. IMNSHO, TiVo is better than OnDemand, so I don't care. :-) Full disclosure: I hate Comcast. I think it's worlds better than the Comcast DVR. Talk about damning with faint praise. :) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
Full disclosure: I hate Comcast. You're not alone. The Worst Company In America competition at consumerist.com is now down to CountryWide vs. ComCast: http://tinyurl.com/65wcns ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: mythtv and digital tv
On Wed, 2008-07-23 at 18:25 -0400, Frank DiPrete wrote: It looks like it's time to switch tv service. I am using basic analog cable and Comcrap has been eliminating channels from the lineup to use the bandwidth for their digital tv service. Of course they kept all of the ^$*-ing shopping channels in tact. To sum it up, comcrap customers are forced to pay to solve their technical problem. I can't get fios where I live so I can: a) keep paying the same top dollar for diminishing analog cable service b) pay more for comcrap digital cable tv and 3 set top boxes c) switch to sat tv (dish) and pay for 3 set top boxes Here's the rub. I'm using a pvr-250 in my mythtv setup and that becomes a brick when in any of the 3 scenarios. Not entirely so. In scenario b or c, you can feed the set top box into the pvr-250 and record that way. Anybody out there using a digital tuner card (pci) with mythtv or perhaps a fourth friggin box ? I use nothing *but* digital tuner cards these days. However, the only channels available in unencrypted digital are the same ones you'd get over the air. You need a set top box of some sort, feeding either something like a pvr-250 via svid or an hd box feeding the hauppauge hd-pvr to record anything but abc/nbc/cbs/fox/pbs/etc. Or to get lucky and have provider who doesn't encrypt things, either in their on-wire digital format (very rare) or out the firewire port on an hd cable box (only slightly less rare than the prior loophole). -- Jarod Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
