Re: Adding policykit-gnome to damned-lies
OK. Btw, there's some Danish translations (my first language) already of (I suppose) dubious quality. Do feel free to replace them with something better; I did them mostly to test that i18n actually worked. Thanks! Hallo David Please include a comment about this is in the header of the po-file (the comment for the first string). Just write that the traslations in the file has not been reviewed and that whomever has a look at this translation after April 7 2008 should review all translations and then delete the comment OR if you would like to translate it your self then write me back and I'll inform you of the procedures. Best regards Kenneth Nielsen Also: I haven't done a very good job of using the /* Translator */ hints in the code; I'll try to improve on that in the future. Thanks for translating this! David ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
I was working the other day on bug 335763, which allowed zenity yes/no dialogues to have arbitrary text on the yes and no buttons. It occurred to me today that this is actually a more general problem for yes/no dialogues in languages where the answers to such questions depend on the verb used. (I know Irish and Welsh have this feature.) For example, from gossip: msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes? Creating a dialogue with gtk_message_dialog_new() will give us buttons called Ie and Nage, which are generic unfocussed yes/no words. I am turning over whether gettext might be appropriately extended to something like, perhaps #, yes-no msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes? msgstr[y] Oes msgstr[n] Nac oes or possibly we might extend gtk so that the message_format string can (perhaps if passed a special flag) contain yes/no text for the buttons as appropriate, which would require minimal changes anywhere else: msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes?%(Oes)yb%(Nac oes)nb The second is my preferred option out of the two. It doesn't look hard to implement, either. Thoughts? Would this be useful outside the Celtic languages? peace T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman No problem there -- it already is. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
String additions to 'gnome-utils.HEAD'
This is an automatic notification from status generation scripts on: http://l10n.gnome.org/. There have been following string additions to module 'gnome-utils.HEAD': + Include Pointer + Include _pointer + Include the pointer in the screenshot Note that this doesn't directly indicate a string freeze break, but it might be worth investigating. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Em Seg, 2008-04-07 às 10:21 -0400, Thomas Thurman escreveu: I was working the other day on bug 335763, which allowed zenity yes/no dialogues to have arbitrary text on the yes and no buttons. It occurred to me today that this is actually a more general problem for yes/no dialogues in languages where the answers to such questions depend on the verb used. (I know Irish and Welsh have this feature.) For example, from gossip: msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes? Creating a dialogue with gtk_message_dialog_new() will give us buttons called Ie and Nage, which are generic unfocussed yes/no words. I am turning over whether gettext might be appropriately extended to something like, perhaps #, yes-no msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes? msgstr[y] Oes msgstr[n] Nac oes or possibly we might extend gtk so that the message_format string can (perhaps if passed a special flag) contain yes/no text for the buttons as appropriate, which would require minimal changes anywhere else: msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes?%(Oes)yb%(Nac oes)nb The second is my preferred option out of the two. It doesn't look hard to implement, either. Thoughts? Would this be useful outside the Celtic languages? peace T Hi, Thomas. Why not just make your own dialog, gtk+ allows you to add any kind of custom button. Cheers, -- Jonh Wendell www.bani.com.br ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Ysgrifennodd Jonh Wendell: Why not just make your own dialog, gtk+ allows you to add any kind of custom button. Because I'm thinking from the point of view of the translators rather than the programmers. The programmers can create a dialogue with any buttons they like, it's true, but unless the default language of the application is Welsh or Irish they're unlikely to have used custom buttons for a yes/no question. Since the translators are usually translating US English strings from code, it's unlikely that all GTK users are going to agree to use custom dialogue buttons just for the sake of Welsh and Irish users; indeed, that would make GTK_BUTTONS_YES_NO rather pointless. peace T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman They're just ordinary boulders. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: String additions to 'gnome-utils.HEAD'
On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 15:40 +0100, GNOME Status Pages wrote: This is an automatic notification from status generation scripts on: http://l10n.gnome.org/. There have been following string additions to module 'gnome-utils.HEAD': + Include Pointer + Include _pointer + Include the pointer in the screenshot Note that this doesn't directly indicate a string freeze break, but it might be worth investigating. gnome-utils trunk targets gnome 2.24, and since I will not make a release of gnome-utils for 2.22, I'd like to ask to update damned-lies. sorry for not notifying the localization teams in time. ciao, Emmanuele. -- Emmanuele Bassi, W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.net B: http://log.emmanuelebassi.net ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Op Maandag 2008-04-07 skryf Thomas Thurman: I was working the other day on bug 335763, which allowed zenity yes/no dialogues to have arbitrary text on the yes and no buttons. It occurred to me today that this is actually a more general problem for yes/no dialogues in languages where the answers to such questions depend on the verb used. (I know Irish and Welsh have this feature.) For example, from gossip: msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes? Creating a dialogue with gtk_message_dialog_new() will give us buttons called Ie and Nage, which are generic unfocussed yes/no words. I am turning over whether gettext might be appropriately extended to something like, perhaps #, yes-no msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes? msgstr[y] Oes msgstr[n] Nac oes -1 or possibly we might extend gtk so that the message_format string can (perhaps if passed a special flag) contain yes/no text for the buttons as appropriate, which would require minimal changes anywhere else: msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes?%(Oes)yb%(Nac oes)nb -1 The second is my preferred option out of the two. It doesn't look hard to implement, either. Thoughts? Would this be useful outside the Celtic languages? peace T This won't be needed for any of the languages that I am familiar with, but if it can increase the quality for other languages, we should consider it, I guess. I would really want to encourage you to keep things as simple as possible. If you want a different translation for yes depending on context, this is what msgctxt is meant for. Use msgctxt to specify the unique context (have?), and provide a comment to explain to translators what the issue is. I don't want to be the one explaining %(Oes)yb%(Nac oes)nb to a non-technical translator through our second or third languages:-) It is non-intuitive and makes automatic quality assurance very difficult. Friedel ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Ysgrifennodd F Wolff: I would really want to encourage you to keep things as simple as possible. If you want a different translation for yes depending on context, this is what msgctxt is meant for. Use msgctxt to specify the unique context (have?), and provide a comment to explain to translators what the issue is. I think you are missing my point. I am not approaching this problem as a programmer; rather, I am considering it from the point of view of a translator. There are languages in which every yes/no question might reasonably have a different verbal representation of assent or dissent. I can't go through every gtk application in the world and ask their programmers to add representations of the verb into msgctxt. Even if I could, there still wouldn't be any way for the translators to specify what the translation of yes and no should be for that particular question. The reason I gave the examples I did was that to all application programmers, and to most translators, they won't look any different from what we have now. peace T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman You don't find anything under the machine. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
help needed with non-US time zones for clock applet
(Specifically, if you live in [or are knowledgeable about] AR, AU, BR, CA, CN, CD, GL, ID, KZ, MY, MX, RU, UA, or UZ, please read this. Thanks :) Vincent has just committed the patches to fix the clock applet guesses the wrong timezone bug, but this relies on libgweather/data/Locations.xml.in having the correct timezones listed for various places. For large countries that span multiple timezones, it takes some work to get this right. I spent a while getting the US right, and I did some investigation on most of the others, but there are still places where the information is wrong (especially in the non-English-speaking countries, which it was harder for me to find reliable information about). Specifically: - Argentina: /usr/share/zoneinfo/zone.tab lists 11 zones, though Wikipedia claims that there is only a single zone for the entire country. It's possible that the other 10 zones reflect historical distinctions that are no longer relevant. I assigned the whole country to America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires. Is this right? - Australia: I assigned a timezone to each state in AU, but /usr/share/zoneinfo/zone.tab has multiple zones for most states, so some location entries on the edges of states may need to override the tz-hint inherited from their state. - Brazil: /usr/share/zoneinfo/zone.tab lists 15 zones. I did not even bother trying to figure them out, and assigned the whole country to America/Sao_Paulo. - Canada: I assigned a timezone to each state, and split things up further within states in a few cases where it was easy to distinguish timezones by longitude. Still needs some tweaking around the edges. - China: 5 timezones listed, but everything I've seen says that only Asia/Shanghai is still in use. Right? (Taiwan and Hong Kong are listed separately.) - Democratic Republic of the Congo: 2 timezones. I assigned the whole country to Africa/Kinshasa - Greenland: 4 timezones, several locations. I assigned the whole country to America/Godthab - Indonesia: 4 timezones, somewhat guessable based on longitude. Probably not 100% right though - Kazakhstan: 5 timezones. A few of the locations matched the name of a timezone, but the remaining ones got defaulted to Asia/Alamaty. - Malaysia: 2 timezones on widely separated islands, so I think I got these right just going by longitude. - Mexico: 8 timezones, many locations, not divided into states, so I didn't even try sorting them out. Everything got America/Mexico_City - Russia: 15 timezones, many locations. Everything got Europe/Moscow. - Ukraine: 4 timezones, Everything got Europe/Kiev - Uzbekistan: 2 timezones, Everything got Asia/Tashkent If you can provide better data for any of these, please check out libgweather, add tz-hint lines to the appropriate country, state, or location entries in data/Locations.xml.in (the tz-hint has to come immediately after the _name; run make check when you're done to validate the XML), and submit a patch to the libgweather product on bugzilla.gnome.org. Thanks. -- Dan ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Le lundi 07 avril 2008 à 11:50 -0400, Thomas Thurman a écrit : Ysgrifennodd F Wolff: I would really want to encourage you to keep things as simple as possible. If you want a different translation for yes depending on context, this is what msgctxt is meant for. Use msgctxt to specify the unique context (have?), and provide a comment to explain to translators what the issue is. I think you are missing my point. I am not approaching this problem as a programmer; rather, I am considering it from the point of view of a translator. There are languages in which every yes/no question might reasonably have a different verbal representation of assent or dissent. I can't go through every gtk application in the world and ask their programmers to add representations of the verb into msgctxt. Even if I could, there still wouldn't be any way for the translators to specify what the translation of yes and no should be for that particular question. The reason I gave the examples I did was that to all application programmers, and to most translators, they won't look any different from what we have now. I suspect this will be difficult to solve if only two languages are concerned. This problem could in theory affect other stock items too, and we have currently no mechanism to link a question with the corresponding stock buttons. Couldn't you find a way to rephrase the question in the translation so as the answer is always the generic yes and no? Claude ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Ysgrifennodd Claude Paroz: I suspect this will be difficult to solve if only two languages are concerned. This problem could in theory affect other stock items too, and we have currently no mechanism to link a question with the corresponding stock buttons. This is a good point; part of my reason for asking here was to discover whether it was a more far-reaching problem than just for the Celtic languages, and whether any kind of deep change might be needed. (I believe I could create a mechanism to link a question with the stock buttons, but another part of the reason for the question is to find out whether it's worth doing so.) Couldn't you find a way to rephrase the question in the translation so as the answer is always the generic yes and no? I think the form of the question would be no less stilted than the current solution of using the generic yes and no for everything, so in that case the status quo is the place to stay. peace T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman They're probably worth a fortune! ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: String additions to 'gnome-utils.HEAD'
Le lundi 07 avril 2008 à 16:15 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi a écrit : On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 15:40 +0100, GNOME Status Pages wrote: This is an automatic notification from status generation scripts on: http://l10n.gnome.org/. There have been following string additions to module 'gnome-utils.HEAD': + Include Pointer + Include _pointer + Include the pointer in the screenshot Note that this doesn't directly indicate a string freeze break, but it might be worth investigating. gnome-utils trunk targets gnome 2.24, and since I will not make a release of gnome-utils for 2.22, I'd like to ask to update damned-lies. sorry for not notifying the localization teams in time. Hi Emmanuele, Sorry, but I'm not sure to understand what you tell us here. Do you mean that gnome-utils 2.20 branch has been used for 2.22? Claude ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: help needed with non-US time zones for clock applet
Dan Winship wrote: - China: 5 timezones listed, but everything I've seen says that only Asia/Shanghai is still in use. Right? (Taiwan and Hong Kong are listed separately.) There is only a single time zone for th whole of China for many years, same for Hong Kong and Taiwan. (I remember Hong Kong used to have Summer and winter time when I was a little kid, but that was so long ago ..) - Indonesia: 4 timezones, somewhat guessable based on longitude. Probably not 100% right though I think this also a sigle time zone. - Malaysia: 2 timezones on widely separated islands, so I think I got these right just going by longitude. This is definitely a single time zone all alone. I was born on the east island :) -Ghee ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: String additions to 'gnome-utils.HEAD'
On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 20:11 +0200, Claude Paroz wrote: gnome-utils trunk targets gnome 2.24, and since I will not make a release of gnome-utils for 2.22, I'd like to ask to update damned-lies. sorry for not notifying the localization teams in time. Hi Emmanuele, Sorry, but I'm not sure to understand what you tell us here. Do you mean that gnome-utils 2.20 branch has been used for 2.22? no: there has not been a 2.22 release, and I don't plan one - in which case I'll make from the gnome-2-20 branch. I thought I had enough time to get it ready for 2.22, but lack of resources (mine, in particular) led me to skip this cycle. I should have notified r-t and the localization teams at least half-way through the 2.21 cycle, but as I said I did not have much time to dedicate to gnome-utils. for this I'm terribly sorry. gnome-utils trunk is tracking GNOME 2.24; the changes I plan are mostly in the libraries used (gtk-print, gio, etc.) so the amount of string changes will be strictly limited on my side whenever it's possible, to avoid hassling translators too much. ciao, Emmanuele. -- Emmanuele Bassi, W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.net B: http://log.emmanuelebassi.net ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: String additions to 'gnome-utils.HEAD'
Le lundi 07 avril 2008 à 20:57 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi a écrit : On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 20:11 +0200, Claude Paroz wrote: gnome-utils trunk targets gnome 2.24, and since I will not make a release of gnome-utils for 2.22, I'd like to ask to update damned-lies. sorry for not notifying the localization teams in time. Hi Emmanuele, Sorry, but I'm not sure to understand what you tell us here. Do you mean that gnome-utils 2.20 branch has been used for 2.22? no: there has not been a 2.22 release, and I don't plan one - in which case I'll make from the gnome-2-20 branch. So your no is a yes for me :-) My question wasn't clear enough. But yes, GNOME 2.22 shipped with gnome-utils 2.20, as we can see here: ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/desktop/2.22/2.22.0/sources Right? Claude I thought I had enough time to get it ready for 2.22, but lack of resources (mine, in particular) led me to skip this cycle. I should have notified r-t and the localization teams at least half-way through the 2.21 cycle, but as I said I did not have much time to dedicate to gnome-utils. for this I'm terribly sorry. gnome-utils trunk is tracking GNOME 2.24; the changes I plan are mostly in the libraries used (gtk-print, gio, etc.) so the amount of string changes will be strictly limited on my side whenever it's possible, to avoid hassling translators too much. ciao, Emmanuele. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Scríobh Claude Paroz: Couldn't you find a way to rephrase the question in the translation so as the answer is always the generic yes and no? Speaking for Irish, I'm not sure this is always possible, even in a stilted fashion (as Thomas mentions). The best approximations to Yes and No that the Irish translators (for Firefox and KDE as well) have come up with so far translate as It is and It isn't. It would certainly make every yes-or-no question awkward and I'm certain there are a few that can't be rephrased into something both sensible and correct. For that matter, this problem isn't isolated to GTK+ software. This same problem exists in KDE. It seems to me like it would be better to address this outside of GTK+ but this again brings up the problem of Is this worth it for the Celtic languages alone? Certainly it's more than two but not by much. Still, the resulting translations are very awkward and I think it needs to be addressed somehow. If accurate translations are impossible, something's wrong. Perhaps a more generic solution could be found that fixes similar problems in other languages. Seán de Búrca ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: String additions to 'gnome-utils.HEAD'
On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 22:12 +0200, Claude Paroz wrote: Le lundi 07 avril 2008 à 20:57 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi a écrit : On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 20:11 +0200, Claude Paroz wrote: gnome-utils trunk targets gnome 2.24, and since I will not make a release of gnome-utils for 2.22, I'd like to ask to update damned-lies. sorry for not notifying the localization teams in time. Hi Emmanuele, Sorry, but I'm not sure to understand what you tell us here. Do you mean that gnome-utils 2.20 branch has been used for 2.22? no: there has not been a 2.22 release, and I don't plan one - in which case I'll make from the gnome-2-20 branch. So your no is a yes for me :-) My question wasn't clear enough. But yes, GNOME 2.22 shipped with gnome-utils 2.20, as we can see here: ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/desktop/2.22/2.22.0/sources Right? well, in this case, yes. :-) sorry for the confusion. ciao, Emmanuele. -- Emmanuele Bassi, W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.net B: http://log.emmanuelebassi.net ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
System admin guide
Hi, I seriously think something went wrong with the System Admin Guide: http://l10n.gnome.org/module/gnome-user-docs there are only 32 messages right now. Cheers. -- Jorge González González [EMAIL PROTECTED] Weblog: http://aloriel.no-ip.org Fotolog: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aloriel ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Ysgrifennodd Christian Rose: So please describe the problem on the mailing list that the gettext developers use (https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translation-i18n). I've found the gettext developers to be very responsive to feedback and suggestions. I'll take the discussion there, then. Thanks. peace T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman The geyser of blistering steam erupts continuously from a barren island in the center of a sulfurous lake, which bubbles ominously. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
On 4/7/08, Sean Burke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scríobh Claude Paroz: Couldn't you find a way to rephrase the question in the translation so as the answer is always the generic yes and no? Speaking for Irish, I'm not sure this is always possible, even in a stilted fashion (as Thomas mentions). The best approximations to Yes and No that the Irish translators (for Firefox and KDE as well) have come up with so far translate as It is and It isn't. It would certainly make every yes-or-no question awkward and I'm certain there are a few that can't be rephrased into something both sensible and correct. For that matter, this problem isn't isolated to GTK+ software. This same problem exists in KDE. It seems to me like it would be better to address this outside of GTK+ but this again brings up the problem of Is this worth it for the Celtic languages alone? Certainly it's more than two but not by much. Still, the resulting translations are very awkward and I think it needs to be addressed somehow. If accurate translations are impossible, something's wrong. Perhaps a more generic solution could be found that fixes similar problems in other languages. In any case, as already pointed out, this is not a GTK+ nor QT specific problem, so the best place to address this is in upstream gettext itself, if possible. That way, if a solution can be found, all projects will eventually have the possibility to benefit from this and build upon a gettext solution. So please describe the problem on the mailing list that the gettext developers use (https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translation-i18n). I've found the gettext developers to be very responsive to feedback and suggestions. Christian ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: help needed with non-US time zones for clock applet
On 4/7/08, Ghee Teo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Malaysia: 2 timezones on widely separated islands, so I think I got these right just going by longitude. This is definitely a single time zone all alone. I was born on the east island :) -Ghee Yup. Malaysia only have single timezone, which is GMT+8 Historically, we have 2 timezone with 30 minutes difference, but it has been changed I think more than 20 years ago. -- Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
