Re: Events for translators

[Muhammet Kara]

Hi all,

I am happy to share with you that I have organized and held a small
"translation race" last week for Turkish in Ankara, Turkey. :)

And here are the details:

- 4 newcomers (CS students) attended the race (but one of them had issues
with his laptop, so the effective number of attendees was 3), and I was
able to handle them in a comfortable way.
- It took about 4-5 hours, and each attendee has translated at least one
module (some of the translations traveled back and forth a few times
between me and the attendee because of meticulous reviews. I tried to let
them correct their own errors so that they would learn as much as possible)
- We have raised the completion rate of GNOME 3.26 (development) branch for
Turkish from 91% to 93% during the event. (And GNOME 3.24 (stable) branch
from 91% to 92% as a side effect of the shared modules)
- The attendees were happy about the home-made cake and snacks I prepared
for the event (I wish I had some stickers too, but I didn't have time to
print them)
- The attendees expressed their happiness about the event, and asked if I
could come to their school (in Northern Cyprus) in September or October in
case they organize an event there.
- We created a slack group, and all attendees joined in. We are now talking
about repeating the event remotely (communicating via slack) a few times
more during the string freeze.

Cheers,
Muhammet


2017-07-07 22:36 GMT+03:00 Muhammet Kara :

> Hi Carlos,
>
> This sounds like a great idea! I would be happy to organize such events
> for potential contributors from Turkey.
>
> I spoke during some sessions in AB17 conference this year in Turkey. Some
> of them were about localization of free software to Turkish, and I went
> through GNOME's translation workflow as an example. -The topic was general
> initially, but I couldn't resist, and turned it into a GNOME event :)- You
> may check the details of the event on the wiki page:
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Events/AB17
>
> Others have already provided valuable input, but I would like to emphasize
> importance of quality over quantity once more. I think measure of success
> should be more flexible than x number of strings or y number of modules.
>
> Cheers,
> Muhammet
>
>
> 2017-07-03 12:23 GMT+03:00 Carlos Soriano :
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Lately we have been trying to define what events GNOME can sponsor and
>> how. You can read more in the wiki [0]
>>
>> One of the ideas is a "Translation race" event. Basically various people
>> get together to learn how to translate and translate some module with some
>> of you.
>>
>> However I need a little of help to figure out how that event could be.
>> The questions I have are:
>> - How much time do you think it would take to set up, teach and translate
>> a module?
>> - What items would be interesting for you? (e.g. stickers, some cake,
>> snacks,)
>> - How many people could a single organiser handle in a comfortable way?
>> - Do you think "translated one module per person" is doable in that time
>> and a good way to measure the success of the event? If not, what do you
>> propose as a measurement of success of the event?
>> - Do you have a canonical guide an orgnizer should follow and make the
>> people follow? (similar to /Newcomers). Is https://wiki.gnome.org/Tran
>> slationProject/JoiningTranslation the one?
>> - Any other point we should take into account?
>>
>> [0] https://wiki.gnome.org/Engagement/Events
>>
>> ___
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>> gnome-i18n@gnome.org
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
>>
>>
>
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Re: Events for translators

[Muhammet Kara]

Hi Carlos,

This sounds like a great idea! I would be happy to organize such events for
potential contributors from Turkey.

I spoke during some sessions in AB17 conference this year in Turkey. Some
of them were about localization of free software to Turkish, and I went
through GNOME's translation workflow as an example. -The topic was general
initially, but I couldn't resist, and turned it into a GNOME event :)- You
may check the details of the event on the wiki page:
https://wiki.gnome.org/Events/AB17

Others have already provided valuable input, but I would like to emphasize
importance of quality over quantity once more. I think measure of success
should be more flexible than x number of strings or y number of modules.

Cheers,
Muhammet


2017-07-03 12:23 GMT+03:00 Carlos Soriano :

> Hello all,
>
> Lately we have been trying to define what events GNOME can sponsor and
> how. You can read more in the wiki [0]
>
> One of the ideas is a "Translation race" event. Basically various people
> get together to learn how to translate and translate some module with some
> of you.
>
> However I need a little of help to figure out how that event could be. The
> questions I have are:
> - How much time do you think it would take to set up, teach and translate
> a module?
> - What items would be interesting for you? (e.g. stickers, some cake,
> snacks,)
> - How many people could a single organiser handle in a comfortable way?
> - Do you think "translated one module per person" is doable in that time
> and a good way to measure the success of the event? If not, what do you
> propose as a measurement of success of the event?
> - Do you have a canonical guide an orgnizer should follow and make the
> people follow? (similar to /Newcomers). Is https://wiki.gnome.org/
> TranslationProject/JoiningTranslation the one?
> - Any other point we should take into account?
>
> [0] https://wiki.gnome.org/Engagement/Events
>
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Re: Events for translators

[Fòram na Gàidhlig]

>> - Do you think "translated one module per person" is doable in that time
>> and a good way to measure the success of the event? If not, what do you
>> propose as a measurement of success of the event?
> Modules aren't equal, sadly. I wouldn't measure success by the number of
> translated modules.

If we want a quantity measure, counting numbr of translated words is
much more accurate.

I'd rather go for quality though. Teach the newcomers the tools, and
also how to keep the terminology consistent, and how to keep in touch if
in doubt about something. Terminology consistency is not only a problem
for smaller locales where terminology isn't that established yet, but
also for big locales like English or German who have double terminology
in some cases (is it "sign in" or "log in"? Is a "password" a "Passwort"
or a "Kennwort"? ...)
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Re: Events for translators

[Марко М . Костић]

Дана 3.7.17. у 11:59, Carlos Soriano пише:

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 11:23:42 +0200
From: Carlos Soriano <csori...@gnome.org>
To: gnome-i18n <gnome-i18n@gnome.org>
Subject: Events for translators
Message-ID:

Re: Events for translators

[Carlos Soriano]

On Mon., 3 Jul. 2017, 13:56 Alexandre Franke,  wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 1:09 PM, Carlos Soriano  wrote:
> >> There is a table on the wiki page. Coordinator satisfaction can depend
> >> on a number of criteria and should be defined on a per event basis.
> >
> > Inside the wide satisfaction level, could it be a more or less standard?
> As
> > in, maybe 100 strings of quality translated? It's just to give some very
> > basic guidelines, to avoid an event report like "yeah they learnt
> > something".
>
> Did you read the page? The table and agenda address that question.
>

I did. I don't feel that answers my question though...


> > Is the general guide I linked before good enough as a basic
> > guideline for someone that wants to organise such event?
>
> Not really. First of all that is not what that page is for (it’s
> information for people from the outside trying to join, not community
> members trying to organize an event) and second of all this page needs
> to be revamped (as many of the pages in that namespace).
>

Oh I mean as a kind of tutorial for the atendees, to avoid following some
workflow that is not expected (i.e. this happened "how to build GNOME" and
resulted in not so great experience)


> --
> Alexandre Franke
> GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
>
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Re: Events for translators

[Alexandre Franke]

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 1:09 PM, Carlos Soriano  wrote:
>> There is a table on the wiki page. Coordinator satisfaction can depend
>> on a number of criteria and should be defined on a per event basis.
>
> Inside the wide satisfaction level, could it be a more or less standard? As
> in, maybe 100 strings of quality translated? It's just to give some very
> basic guidelines, to avoid an event report like "yeah they learnt
> something".

Did you read the page? The table and agenda address that question.

> Is the general guide I linked before good enough as a basic
> guideline for someone that wants to organise such event?

Not really. First of all that is not what that page is for (it’s
information for people from the outside trying to join, not community
members trying to organize an event) and second of all this page needs
to be revamped (as many of the pages in that namespace).

-- 
Alexandre Franke
GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
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Re: Events for translators

[Carlos Soriano]

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Alexandre Franke  wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Carlos Soriano 
> wrote:
> > Hello all,
>
> Hi,
>
> > One of the ideas is a "Translation race" event. Basically various people
> get
> > together to learn how to translate and translate some module with some of
> > you.
>
> I organized [such an event in
> 2014](https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/LeTranslathon2014). It was on a
> weekend at the Mozilla office space in Paris and it was very
> successful. The wiki page addresses many of your questions.
>

Cool, that's helpful.


>
> > - What items would be interesting for you? (e.g. stickers, some cake,
> > snacks,)
>
> The two most important items are a venue (which can usually be
> provided for free or sponsored by a third party) and transportation
> for the experienced contributors to ensure they will be able to come
> and guide the other attendees. After that, I’d invest in food, not
> swag.
>

Noted


>
> > - How many people could a single organiser handle in a comfortable way?
>
> I’d say around 5 newcomers per experienced translator.
>

Noted


>
> > - Do you think "translated one module per person" is doable in that time
> and
> > a good way to measure the success of the event? If not, what do you
> propose
> > as a measurement of success of the event?
>
> There is a table on the wiki page. Coordinator satisfaction can depend
> on a number of criteria and should be defined on a per event basis.
>

Inside the wide satisfaction level, could it be a more or less standard? As
in, maybe 100 strings of quality translated? It's just to give some very
basic guidelines, to avoid an event report like "yeah they learnt
something".


>
> > - Coordinators bureocracy is difficult and will delay the process
>
> If people create their accounts together at the beginning of the event
> while the organizer walks them through the steps, it should take about
> 10 minutes before someone is able to contribute. I don’t think it’s
> any more difficult or longer than the process of getting your first
> patch ready for review.
>
>
Right.


> > - Each team has its own guidelines
>
> Yes and I expect this to remain the case. Translation teams have to
> integrate in the GNOME community, but they also have to take the
> language community into account. The French team for GNOME
> collaborates with the translators of LibreOffice, KDE, Ubuntu, Fedora…
>

Indeed. Is the general guide I linked before good enough as a basic
guideline for someone that wants to organise such event?


>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Alexandre Franke
> GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
>
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Re: Events for translators

[Daniel Mustieles García]

2017-07-03 11:58 GMT+02:00 Carlos Soriano :

> Hello Daniel,
>
> Thanks for your input! Your main two points are interesting:
> - Coordinators bureocracy is difficult and will delay the process
> - Each team has its own guidelines
>
> For the first point I think is good enough if the organizers review the
> patches and explain the process that will go through with yhe coordinators
> later on.
> For the second point, do you think the main wiki is good enough as general
> guide? I guess we can use that one as main source, but allow local teams to
> do slightly modifications in the event based on the local guidelines.
>
I'd vote to "open" some restrictions, to simplify the process of sbmitting
a translation to the proofreaders/coordinators (not registering in DL, for
example). Not want to completely remove it, but in a first stage it's not
necessary to have an account into DL, reserve the module, submit
translation... once the newcomer is interested in collaborating with the
Project and he(she will reamin in the team, we can apply the team policy.

> About doing it on remote, what do you mean? This event on remote would be
> just a videocall  right? In that case what would th foundation do to help?
> The items we were proposing were all for in person events (stickers,
> snacks, some cash)
>
Right, but moving people to a translate event might be difficult for some
teams... doing it remotely could ease people to participate, but I agree it
isn't be the original idea. Note that I'm taking all the time form the
point of view of the Spanish team (currently maintained and active by just
one person). Other teams may have more members, so in those cases would
have more sense to do it on-site.

> Best,
> Carlos Soriano
>
> On Mon., 3 Jul. 2017, 11:51 Daniel Mustieles García, <
> daniel.mustie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> This is a good idea, since translations is sometimes a forgotten side of
>> the Project (at least for the Spanish team, don't know about other teams),
>> and this initiative could be interesting for those who want collaborate
>> with translation tasks.
>>
>> Start translating a module is more or less easy... just set up a
>> translation program, download the PO file and start translating (and
>> reading previous translations to learn about terms, tags, etc). The main
>> obstacle might be the burocracy around a translation team, since there are
>> not standar ways to manage them. In the case of the Spanish team, we have
>> some guidelines about our internal management which might be difficult to
>> understand and follow in a first stage.
>>
>> So, first of all, I would think about an standar way to manage the
>> workflow of the event (send the translation, review it, comit into git,
>> etc). This would imply to coordinate all team coordinators interested in
>> the event.
>>
>> About the measure of the success... it's difficult to say, since IMHO
>> quality is better then quantity, so just translating one module, but
>> without errors is better for me than translating 5 modules with typos os
>> grammatical errors. This should be decided by team
>> coordinators/proofreaders.
>>
>> For this event, I would choose general, non-specific modules (GIMP for
>> example should not be a good candidate, unless there is someone specialized
>> on it). Again, team coordinators should choose the modules they think are
>> more suitable for it, ow which modules need more attention.
>>
>> In my case, I would like to participate/support this event for the
>> Spanish people interested on it. Will it be possible to do it remotely?
>>
>> My 2cents ;-)
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> 2017-07-03 11:23 GMT+02:00 Carlos Soriano :
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> Lately we have been trying to define what events GNOME can sponsor and
>>> how. You can read more in the wiki [0]
>>>
>>> One of the ideas is a "Translation race" event. Basically various people
>>> get together to learn how to translate and translate some module with some
>>> of you.
>>>
>>> However I need a little of help to figure out how that event could be.
>>> The questions I have are:
>>> - How much time do you think it would take to set up, teach and
>>> translate a module?
>>> - What items would be interesting for you? (e.g. stickers, some cake,
>>> snacks,)
>>> - How many people could a single organiser handle in a comfortable way?
>>> - Do you think "translated one module per person" is doable in that time
>>> and a good way to measure the success of the event? If not, what do you
>>> propose as a measurement of success of the event?
>>> - Do you have a canonical guide an orgnizer should follow and make the
>>> people follow? (similar to /Newcomers). Is https://wiki.gnome.org/
>>> TranslationProject/JoiningTranslation the one?
>>> - Any other point we should take into account?
>>>
>>> [0] https://wiki.gnome.org/Engagement/Events
>>>
>>> ___
>>> gnome-i18n mailing list
>>> 

Re: Events for translators

[Alexandre Franke]

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Carlos Soriano  wrote:
> Hello all,

Hi,

> One of the ideas is a "Translation race" event. Basically various people get
> together to learn how to translate and translate some module with some of
> you.

I organized [such an event in
2014](https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/LeTranslathon2014). It was on a
weekend at the Mozilla office space in Paris and it was very
successful. The wiki page addresses many of your questions.

> - What items would be interesting for you? (e.g. stickers, some cake,
> snacks,)

The two most important items are a venue (which can usually be
provided for free or sponsored by a third party) and transportation
for the experienced contributors to ensure they will be able to come
and guide the other attendees. After that, I’d invest in food, not
swag.

> - How many people could a single organiser handle in a comfortable way?

I’d say around 5 newcomers per experienced translator.

> - Do you think "translated one module per person" is doable in that time and
> a good way to measure the success of the event? If not, what do you propose
> as a measurement of success of the event?

There is a table on the wiki page. Coordinator satisfaction can depend
on a number of criteria and should be defined on a per event basis.

> - Coordinators bureocracy is difficult and will delay the process

If people create their accounts together at the beginning of the event
while the organizer walks them through the steps, it should take about
10 minutes before someone is able to contribute. I don’t think it’s
any more difficult or longer than the process of getting your first
patch ready for review.

> - Each team has its own guidelines

Yes and I expect this to remain the case. Translation teams have to
integrate in the GNOME community, but they also have to take the
language community into account. The French team for GNOME
collaborates with the translators of LibreOffice, KDE, Ubuntu, Fedora…

Cheers,

-- 
Alexandre Franke
GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
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Re: Events for translators

[Carlos Soriano]

Hello Daniel,

Thanks for your input! Your main two points are interesting:
- Coordinators bureocracy is difficult and will delay the process
- Each team has its own guidelines

For the first point I think is good enough if the organizers review the
patches and explain the process that will go through with yhe coordinators
later on.
For the second point, do you think the main wiki is good enough as general
guide? I guess we can use that one as main source, but allow local teams to
do slightly modifications in the event based on the local guidelines.

About doing it on remote, what do you mean? This event on remote would be
just a videocall  right? In that case what would th foundation do to help?
The items we were proposing were all for in person events (stickers,
snacks, some cash)

Best,
Carlos Soriano

On Mon., 3 Jul. 2017, 11:51 Daniel Mustieles García, <
daniel.mustie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> This is a good idea, since translations is sometimes a forgotten side of
> the Project (at least for the Spanish team, don't know about other teams),
> and this initiative could be interesting for those who want collaborate
> with translation tasks.
>
> Start translating a module is more or less easy... just set up a
> translation program, download the PO file and start translating (and
> reading previous translations to learn about terms, tags, etc). The main
> obstacle might be the burocracy around a translation team, since there are
> not standar ways to manage them. In the case of the Spanish team, we have
> some guidelines about our internal management which might be difficult to
> understand and follow in a first stage.
>
> So, first of all, I would think about an standar way to manage the
> workflow of the event (send the translation, review it, comit into git,
> etc). This would imply to coordinate all team coordinators interested in
> the event.
>
> About the measure of the success... it's difficult to say, since IMHO
> quality is better then quantity, so just translating one module, but
> without errors is better for me than translating 5 modules with typos os
> grammatical errors. This should be decided by team
> coordinators/proofreaders.
>
> For this event, I would choose general, non-specific modules (GIMP for
> example should not be a good candidate, unless there is someone specialized
> on it). Again, team coordinators should choose the modules they think are
> more suitable for it, ow which modules need more attention.
>
> In my case, I would like to participate/support this event for the Spanish
> people interested on it. Will it be possible to do it remotely?
>
> My 2cents ;-)
>
> Cheers!
>
> 2017-07-03 11:23 GMT+02:00 Carlos Soriano :
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Lately we have been trying to define what events GNOME can sponsor and
>> how. You can read more in the wiki [0]
>>
>> One of the ideas is a "Translation race" event. Basically various people
>> get together to learn how to translate and translate some module with some
>> of you.
>>
>> However I need a little of help to figure out how that event could be.
>> The questions I have are:
>> - How much time do you think it would take to set up, teach and translate
>> a module?
>> - What items would be interesting for you? (e.g. stickers, some cake,
>> snacks,)
>> - How many people could a single organiser handle in a comfortable way?
>> - Do you think "translated one module per person" is doable in that time
>> and a good way to measure the success of the event? If not, what do you
>> propose as a measurement of success of the event?
>> - Do you have a canonical guide an orgnizer should follow and make the
>> people follow? (similar to /Newcomers). Is
>> https://wiki.gnome.org/TranslationProject/JoiningTranslation the one?
>> - Any other point we should take into account?
>>
>> [0] https://wiki.gnome.org/Engagement/Events
>>
>> ___
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>> gnome-i18n@gnome.org
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
>>
>>
>
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Re: Events for translators

[Daniel Mustieles García]

Hi!

This is a good idea, since translations is sometimes a forgotten side of
the Project (at least for the Spanish team, don't know about other teams),
and this initiative could be interesting for those who want collaborate
with translation tasks.

Start translating a module is more or less easy... just set up a
translation program, download the PO file and start translating (and
reading previous translations to learn about terms, tags, etc). The main
obstacle might be the burocracy around a translation team, since there are
not standar ways to manage them. In the case of the Spanish team, we have
some guidelines about our internal management which might be difficult to
understand and follow in a first stage.

So, first of all, I would think about an standar way to manage the workflow
of the event (send the translation, review it, comit into git, etc). This
would imply to coordinate all team coordinators interested in the event.

About the measure of the success... it's difficult to say, since IMHO
quality is better then quantity, so just translating one module, but
without errors is better for me than translating 5 modules with typos os
grammatical errors. This should be decided by team
coordinators/proofreaders.

For this event, I would choose general, non-specific modules (GIMP for
example should not be a good candidate, unless there is someone specialized
on it). Again, team coordinators should choose the modules they think are
more suitable for it, ow which modules need more attention.

In my case, I would like to participate/support this event for the Spanish
people interested on it. Will it be possible to do it remotely?

My 2cents ;-)

Cheers!

2017-07-03 11:23 GMT+02:00 Carlos Soriano :

> Hello all,
>
> Lately we have been trying to define what events GNOME can sponsor and
> how. You can read more in the wiki [0]
>
> One of the ideas is a "Translation race" event. Basically various people
> get together to learn how to translate and translate some module with some
> of you.
>
> However I need a little of help to figure out how that event could be. The
> questions I have are:
> - How much time do you think it would take to set up, teach and translate
> a module?
> - What items would be interesting for you? (e.g. stickers, some cake,
> snacks,)
> - How many people could a single organiser handle in a comfortable way?
> - Do you think "translated one module per person" is doable in that time
> and a good way to measure the success of the event? If not, what do you
> propose as a measurement of success of the event?
> - Do you have a canonical guide an orgnizer should follow and make the
> people follow? (similar to /Newcomers). Is https://wiki.gnome.org/
> TranslationProject/JoiningTranslation the one?
> - Any other point we should take into account?
>
> [0] https://wiki.gnome.org/Engagement/Events
>
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Events for translators

[Carlos Soriano]

Hello all,

Lately we have been trying to define what events GNOME can sponsor and how.
You can read more in the wiki [0]

One of the ideas is a "Translation race" event. Basically various people
get together to learn how to translate and translate some module with some
of you.

However I need a little of help to figure out how that event could be. The
questions I have are:
- How much time do you think it would take to set up, teach and translate a
module?
- What items would be interesting for you? (e.g. stickers, some cake,
snacks,)
- How many people could a single organiser handle in a comfortable way?
- Do you think "translated one module per person" is doable in that time
and a good way to measure the success of the event? If not, what do you
propose as a measurement of success of the event?
- Do you have a canonical guide an orgnizer should follow and make the
people follow? (similar to /Newcomers). Is
https://wiki.gnome.org/TranslationProject/JoiningTranslation the one?
- Any other point we should take into account?

[0] https://wiki.gnome.org/Engagement/Events
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