Re: Kurdish - we give it a start
Merrĥeba Erdal :) (Hi) (I hope that's right: similar to Marhaba in Arabic?) It was interesting looking at Kurdish language resources online: as with my language, they are sparse and it isn't easy to find exactly what you want. However, there is evidently a lot of volunteer effort going into providing language resources, and that's always a heart- warming thing to see. :) On 30/08/2005, at 8:07 PM, Erdal Ronahi wrote: thanks for the warm words. To translate software into Kurdish is a great challenge indeed. Although close to 40 Million people speak Kurdish, it could not develop well, because it has been forbidden in Turkey, where most Kurds live. Still it is not been taught at any state school - let alone university. So we have to create a wholly new computer terminology, which makes this task very difficult. I think we all have that problem to some degree, but some of us more than others. The computing vocabulary has developed so fast, and changes so quickly and continually, that it's very hard for any language's base to handle it, especially with the amount of specialized experience necessary to understand most of it. Most of the people in rural Vietnam wouldn't have seen a calculator, let alone a computer. There's a big conceptual gap to bridge. Access, I think, will be the crucial empowering factor, and we need to be there with the translations and information when people do achieve access. It really is great to see people in your community trying computing for the first time, and their delight and often disbelief that someone has put in the effort to provide translations or information pages online in their language. :) The other difficulties are, as you said, economical underdevelopment and little computer access. I am happy that the international free software community - and especially the GNOME supports all kinds of localization efforts. Because other players in the software market don't. I wouldn't know about that, although I've found all the projects I work in to be very culturally inclusive. Gnome does, I think, have the greatest variety in languages, and that's a remarkable achievement. However, the Translation Project, Pootle, Debian and KDE, not to mention all the projects for individual programs, are always keen to have and support as many languages as possible, at least in my experience. Watch out, Erdal, or I'll send a whole lot of different people to you, asking for Kurdish translations! :D Good luck with everything. I'll be very interested to see your posts here, on some of the language issues in translating into Kurdish. :) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm Việt hóa phần mềm tự do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Kurdish - we give it a start
On 30/08/2005, at 11:11 PM, Арангел Ангов wrote: If there's something I've learned from a few years of work with localization projects it's that we shouldn't waste time on politics, it will get us nowhere. I agree strongly. Politics, including the politics of our specific culture, virtually paralyze voluntary contribution in the Vietnamese community. I think we have hope, in the younger people, that there will be a greater willingness to take the risk of making a public mistake ... meanwhile, I give them something to laugh at. ;) (I've found laughter relaxes a lot of tensions.) Gnome is a welcoming and supportive place because we make it that way, and keep it that way. It's a truly admirable achievement. from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm Việt hóa phần mềm tự do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Kurdish - we give it a start
Hi Clytie, hi everybody, thanks for the warm words. To translate software into Kurdish is a great challenge indeed. Although close to 40 Million people speak Kurdish, it could not develop well, because it has been forbidden in Turkey, where most Kurds live. Still it is not been taught at any state school - let alone university. So we have to create a wholly new computer terminology, which makes this task very difficult. The other difficulties are, as you said, economical underdevelopment and little computer access. I am happy that the international free software community - and especially the GNOME supports all kinds of localization efforts. Because other players in the software market don't. Greetings, Erdal ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Kurdish - we give it a start
On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 12:37 +0200, Erdal Ronahi wrote: Hi Clytie, hi everybody, thanks for the warm words. To translate software into Kurdish is a great challenge indeed. Although close to 40 Million people speak Kurdish, it could not develop well, because it has been forbidden in Turkey, where most Kurds live. Still it is not been taught at any state school - let alone university. So we have to create a wholly new computer terminology, which makes this task very difficult. I'm not aiming to start a political discussion in here, but just want to fix a misinformation. This is to say 'Kurdish' is not forbidden in Turkey. It's just Turkey only let broadcasting and education in Turkish, in past. That's not special to 'Kurdish' or any other language. After language revolution of Turkey in 1938 people forced to use only Turkish with new form. Of course that was obsolate in new century where everyone is talking/using modern Turkish. During EU process Turkish Gov. let any minority to use its language in education and broadcasting with government permission. And that's the case in any other EU country (maybe even with broader rights). Though using Kurdish computer programmes were never forbidden in Turkey. Thus blaming Turkey for poor Kurdish support is kind of vague. The other difficulties are, as you said, economical underdevelopment and little computer access. I am happy that the international free software community - and especially the GNOME supports all kinds of localization efforts. Because other players in the software market don't. I personally support every attemt to localize software for local market/usage. Kurdish is no exception. You can get support from our mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] And for sending Kurdish translations untill your cvs account will be ready, you can send your files to me and I can commit them to CVS. Greetings, Erdal ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Kurdish - we give it a start
Erdal Ronahi wrote: Hi Clytie, hi everybody, thanks for the warm words. To translate software into Kurdish is a great challenge indeed. Although close to 40 Million people speak Kurdish, it could not develop well, because it has been forbidden in Turkey, where most Kurds live. Still it is not been taught at any state school - let alone university. So we have to create a wholly new computer terminology, which makes this task very difficult. Is this your all - time behaviour, or what? You did the same rant on openoffice.org lists. Gnome-i18n list is not used for political purposes, and yet, what you have declared is not true: You have the minorities rights for Kurdish TV, Kurdish radio, and Kurdish education. There are many Kurdish education centers in south east of Turkey. The other difficulties are, as you said, economical underdevelopment and little computer access. I am happy that the international free software community - and especially the GNOME supports all kinds of localization efforts. Because other players in the software market I don't know what other players think about the software players, maybe there are not enough Kurdish computer market to support this localization effort - but GNOME l10n/i18n team is here to help you, including GNOME Turkey. You are more than welcome and ask any kind of questions, even I'll try to find colleagues for you, provided that you stop asking people for sympathy with unfounded statements. I will _not_ answer any of your irrelevant replies here: Please mail me directly if you have any questions regarding your political issues. Best Görkem begin:vcard fn:Gorkem Cetin n;quoted-printable;quoted-printable:=C3=87etin;G=C3=B6rkem email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Kurdish - we give it a start
Hi Erdal, I welcome you as well to GNOME Translation People (or Project, if you're overly precise :), and wish you a long and fun stay ;) Btw, we have KurdishAbdullah Ulas http://gnome-kurdi.sourceforge.net/ entry on http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gtp/teams.html I am CCing Abdullah so you get in touch with him (from GTP POV, we usually recommend that you try contacting current language coordinator first). We need to have a single point of contact (so we avoid any disputes) for any team, and since Abdullah was the first one to step up, he is the one to approve translations and commit them. Current status pages for Kurdish are at: http://l10n-status.gnome.org/gnome-2.12/ku/index.html Today at 12:37, Erdal Ronahi wrote: thanks for the warm words. To translate software into Kurdish is a great challenge indeed. Although close to 40 Million people speak Kurdish, it could not develop well, because it has been forbidden in Turkey, where most Kurds live. Still it is not been taught at any state school - let alone university. So we have to create a wholly new computer terminology, which makes this task very difficult. That's a case even with some smaller language communities which didn't have a lot of IT in the past. We (the Serbian team) solved that by creating an online dictionary (where anyone can suggest translations, vote for them, etc.): http://recnik.prevod.org/nadji/file to look at how do the suggestions for file look like :) There is one thing to keep in mind: don't strive for perfect solutions right away, it will only hold you back. Go with what you have, and improve as you go. For instance, changing our terminology for folder word has happened only 18 months after first translations came in, and it was fairly simple to do, along with other updates. Cheers, Danilo ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Kurdish - we give it a start
Baris Cicek wrote: On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 12:37 +0200, Erdal Ronahi wrote: Hi Clytie, hi everybody, thanks for the warm words. To translate software into Kurdish is a great challenge indeed. Although close to 40 Million people speak Kurdish, it could not develop well, because it has been forbidden in Turkey, where most Kurds live. Still it is not been taught at any state school - let alone university. So we have to create a wholly new computer terminology, which makes this task very difficult. I'm not aiming to start a political discussion in here, but just want to fix a misinformation. This is to say 'Kurdish' is not forbidden in Turkey. It's just Turkey only let broadcasting and education in Turkish, in past. That's not special to 'Kurdish' or any other language. After language revolution of Turkey in 1938 people forced to use only Turkish with new form. Of course that was obsolate in new century where everyone is talking/using modern Turkish. During EU process Turkish Gov. let any minority to use its language in education and broadcasting with government permission. And that's the case in any other EU country (maybe even with broader rights). Though using Kurdish computer programmes were never forbidden in Turkey. Thus blaming Turkey for poor Kurdish support is kind of vague. According to the Human Rights Watch (http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/turkey/turkey993-08.htm), it appears that minority languages have been prohibited in Turkey. It appears that the Kurdish language has not been prohibited specifically (all minority languages suffered, including Greek), but rather the effect was worse on the Kurdish language as the population speaking it was much larger and there was no other country to develop it. I am not sure if the consistution and the practices have changed since 1999 (link?), though the long legacy might be hard to change. It appears that in neighbouring countries with Kurdish populations there have been similar situations. Therefore, the point that Erdal makes could be rephrased from because it has been forbidden in Turkey to because it has been effectively prohibitited in Turkey until [date] The other difficulties are, as you said, economical underdevelopment and little computer access. I am happy that the international free software community - and especially the GNOME supports all kinds of localization efforts. Because other players in the software market don't. I personally support every attemt to localize software for local market/usage. Kurdish is no exception. You can get support from our mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] And for sending Kurdish translations untill your cvs account will be ready, you can send your files to me and I can commit them to CVS. I think this help would be great for the new language support. Simos ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Kurdish - we give it a start
На вто, 2005-08-30 во 14:27 +0100, Simos Xenitellis напиша: Please, all of you, don't start with this issue here as it may attract a flamewar or smth. Many languages of the minorty speaking population are still forbbiden in many of the Balkan countries but that doesn't stop a GNOME user to use the enviorment in his/her own language. If there's something I've learned from a few years of work with localization projects it's that we shouldn't waste time on politics, it will get us nowhere. -Arangel According to the Human Rights Watch (http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/turkey/turkey993-08.htm), it appears that minority languages have been prohibited in Turkey. It appears that the Kurdish language has not been prohibited specifically (all minority languages suffered, including Greek), but rather the effect was worse on the Kurdish language as the population speaking it was much larger and there was no other country to develop it. I am not sure if the consistution and the practices have changed since 1999 (link?), though the long legacy might be hard to change. It appears that in neighbouring countries with Kurdish populations there have been similar situations. Therefore, the point that Erdal makes could be rephrased from because it has been forbidden in Turkey to because it has been effectively prohibitited in Turkey until [date] The other difficulties are, as you said, economical underdevelopment and little computer access. I am happy that the international free software community - and especially the GNOME supports all kinds of localization efforts. Because other players in the software market don't. I personally support every attemt to localize software for local market/usage. Kurdish is no exception. You can get support from our mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] And for sending Kurdish translations untill your cvs account will be ready, you can send your files to me and I can commit them to CVS. I think this help would be great for the new language support. Simos ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Kurdish - we give it a start
Hi everyone, the Kurdish team is finally starting to work on the actual translations. We have created a team and already made some translations at Rosetta which we would like to see in the stats :) We have applied for CVS acces some days ago but not yet got a response. So I want to announce officially the start of the work here and hope we will come along fine. Thanks to everybody who works on GNOME! Erdal ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
