Re: glibc a requirement? (was RE: Russian in traditional orthography support)
Op Do, 2011-09-15 om 10:51 +0300 skryf Ihar Hrachyshka: > On 09/15/2011 10:49 AM, Johannes Schmid wrote: > > Hi! > > > >> I've actually wanted to raise this topic a while ago. Why is this a > >> requirement? > > > > I think it's rather a technical problem that you cannot really set your > > environment to use a language that isn't supported by glib but I might > > be wrong. > > > > You can, localedef + custom locale file is the (official, upstream > approved!) way. But then you should also make sure your users also have > the same locale file in their setup (aka 'provide it in their Unix > distribution package). Well, I'm trying to understand this, because I think we loose possible contributors. Generating a glibc locale is a big hurdle for people to cross and a big demotivator. I have a few partial translations of GTK+ to commit for some African languages. These often don't have glibc locales, yet we support localised UIs for these languages in Virtaal through an application setting or environment variable, even on Windows where some of these languages don't have locales and might never have. We are translating loads of date and time formatting strings in every third GNOME app, and the best reason I've heard is to be able to run on other platforms (I assume Solaris and the BSDs). So it seems that even there we don't need a glibc locale. (If we really need a glibc locale, I'd love to kill a few strftime strings that we keep translating over and over). Friedel -- Recently on my blog: http://translate.org.za/blogs/friedel/en/content/virtaal-070-released ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: glibc a requirement? (was RE: Russian in traditional orthography support)
On 09/15/2011 10:49 AM, Johannes Schmid wrote: > Hi! > >> I've actually wanted to raise this topic a while ago. Why is this a >> requirement? > > I think it's rather a technical problem that you cannot really set your > environment to use a language that isn't supported by glib but I might > be wrong. > You can, localedef + custom locale file is the (official, upstream approved!) way. But then you should also make sure your users also have the same locale file in their setup (aka 'provide it in their Unix distribution package). /Ihar ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: glibc a requirement? (was RE: Russian in traditional orthography support)
Hi! > I've actually wanted to raise this topic a while ago. Why is this a > requirement? I think it's rather a technical problem that you cannot really set your environment to use a language that isn't supported by glib but I might be wrong. Regards, Johannes ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
glibc a requirement? (was RE: Russian in traditional orthography support)
Op Do, 2011-09-15 om 09:49 +0900 skryf Johannes Schmid: > Hi! > > > Also, not all translations' (and even registered teams') locales presented > > at l10n.gnome.org have glibc support, so I assume it's not a required > > prerequisite to register a team. Are there reasons we cannot assume > > "ru@petr1708" locale code not waiting for glibc support, as it's unlikely > > to change in the future? > > Can you give an example of a team that has a locale not in glib? Usually > we have this prerequirement (see > https://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/NewLanguage) though it might > be ok if a bug in glibc exists for it at least. I've actually wanted to raise this topic a while ago. Why is this a requirement? Friedel -- Recently on my blog: http://translate.org.za/blogs/friedel/en/content/virtaal-070-released ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Russian in traditional orthography support
Esperanto. On 14 September 2011 20:49, Johannes Schmid wrote: > Hi! > > > Also, not all translations' (and even registered teams') locales > presented at l10n.gnome.org have glibc support, so I assume it's not a > required prerequisite to register a team. Are there reasons we cannot assume > "ru@petr1708" locale code not waiting for glibc support, as it's unlikely > to change in the future? > > Can you give an example of a team that has a locale not in glib? Usually > we have this prerequirement (see > https://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/NewLanguage) though it might > be ok if a bug in glibc exists for it at least. > > Regards, > Johannes > > ___ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > -- Tiffany Antopolski ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
RE: Russian in traditional orthography support
Hi! > Also, not all translations' (and even registered teams') locales presented at > l10n.gnome.org have glibc support, so I assume it's not a required > prerequisite to register a team. Are there reasons we cannot assume > "ru@petr1708" locale code not waiting for glibc support, as it's unlikely to > change in the future? Can you give an example of a team that has a locale not in glib? Usually we have this prerequirement (see https://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/NewLanguage) though it might be ok if a bug in glibc exists for it at least. Regards, Johannes ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Russian in traditional orthography support
On 09/14/2011 05:27 PM, -скрыто- Алекса wrote: > >> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:13:18 +0300 >> From: ihar.hrachys...@gmail.com >> Subject: Re: Russian in traditional orthography support >> >> To be able to translate it separately from mainstream Russian >> orthography, they need to get special libc variant for their language >> flavor. Like be_BY@latin for Latin alphabet variant for Belarusian >> language. Same for "traditional" Russian orthography (which one of >> them?) It should get libc approval for smth like "ru_RU@traditional" >> (just an assumption) to be able to proceed with releasing translations >> for GNOME. > > There is already registered variant code in BCP-47 style, so I cannot see a > reason why it cannot be used unchanged as variant tag of glibc locale code. > > Also, not all translations' (and even registered teams') locales presented at > l10n.gnome.org have glibc support, so I assume it's not a required > prerequisite to register a team. Are there reasons we cannot assume > "ru@petr1708" locale code not waiting for glibc support, as it's unlikely to > change in the future? > > Finally, I was under impression that modern tendency to use $LANGUAGE for > user interface selection mitigates the dependency on actual locale installed. > > Summary: while I will try to get the locale code patched in, it is not clear > why we should suffer from such bureaucracy , as there are not clear reasons > to assume that said locale code will differ from proposed. Hi, (I'm not an official representative of GNOME in any way, just my suggestions and assumptions below.) I think you can register new GNOME translation team for ru_RU@petr1708. Though you should also think about locale support in upstream (and if not, in distributions). If I understand the issue, to use your translation, users will need to have: - custom locale support in his distro of choice (either provided from glibc upstream or from distribution specific patches; see be_BY@alternative in Debian-based distributions for the case of distro-specific locale with no glibc support); - your GNOME translation itself. For the latter, GNOME l10n team is enough. For the former, you need to make additional steps to promote your locale. To keep discussion constructive, could you please: - send first translation files in this ML; - create bugs for one or two popular distributions with proposal to include this locale in their packages (or show links to them). /Ihar ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
RE: Russian in traditional orthography support
> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:13:18 +0300 > From: ihar.hrachys...@gmail.com > Subject: Re: Russian in traditional orthography support > > To be able to translate it separately from mainstream Russian > orthography, they need to get special libc variant for their language > flavor. Like be_BY@latin for Latin alphabet variant for Belarusian > language. Same for "traditional" Russian orthography (which one of > them?) It should get libc approval for smth like "ru_RU@traditional" > (just an assumption) to be able to proceed with releasing translations > for GNOME. There is already registered variant code in BCP-47 style, so I cannot see a reason why it cannot be used unchanged as variant tag of glibc locale code. Also, not all translations' (and even registered teams') locales presented at l10n.gnome.org have glibc support, so I assume it's not a required prerequisite to register a team. Are there reasons we cannot assume "ru@petr1708" locale code not waiting for glibc support, as it's unlikely to change in the future? Finally, I was under impression that modern tendency to use $LANGUAGE for user interface selection mitigates the dependency on actual locale installed. Summary: while I will try to get the locale code patched in, it is not clear why we should suffer from such bureaucracy , as there are not clear reasons to assume that said locale code will differ from proposed. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Russian in traditional orthography support
On 09/14/2011 04:08 PM, Chris Leonard wrote: > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Ihar Hrachyshka > wrote: >> On 09/13/2011 09:58 PM, -скрыто- Алекса wrote: >>> >>> (In continuation of discussion from 2011-04-01) >>> >>> So what's about my team registration request? Since Gnome also provide GTK >>> toolkit, it is important to have the support and standardized locale name >>> there. >>> >>> ___ >>> gnome-i18n mailing list >>> gnome-i18n@gnome.org >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n >> >> Do you have libc locale assigned for this orthography? >> /Ihar > > Wouldn't this be ru_RU ? > > cjl Hi. Glibc bug for this language flavor: http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12624 As we can see, glibc maintainers don't want to see this locale in upstream. Possibly, we should consider getting it at least in some of popular distributions (like Debian or Fedora). I'd like to ask the original poster what's his plan to achieve getting this locale on end-user computers? Any distribution bugs opened/requests sent? /Ihar ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Russian in traditional orthography support
On 09/14/2011 04:08 PM, Chris Leonard wrote: > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Ihar Hrachyshka > wrote: >> On 09/13/2011 09:58 PM, -скрыто- Алекса wrote: >>> >>> (In continuation of discussion from 2011-04-01) >>> >>> So what's about my team registration request? Since Gnome also provide GTK >>> toolkit, it is important to have the support and standardized locale name >>> there. >>> >>> ___ >>> gnome-i18n mailing list >>> gnome-i18n@gnome.org >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n >> >> Do you have libc locale assigned for this orthography? >> /Ihar > > Wouldn't this be ru_RU ? > > cjl Hi, To be able to translate it separately from mainstream Russian orthography, they need to get special libc variant for their language flavor. Like be_BY@latin for Latin alphabet variant for Belarusian language. Same for "traditional" Russian orthography (which one of them?) It should get libc approval for smth like "ru_RU@traditional" (just an assumption) to be able to proceed with releasing translations for GNOME. /Ihar ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Russian in traditional orthography support
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Ihar Hrachyshka wrote: > On 09/13/2011 09:58 PM, -скрыто- Алекса wrote: >> >> (In continuation of discussion from 2011-04-01) >> >> So what's about my team registration request? Since Gnome also provide GTK >> toolkit, it is important to have the support and standardized locale name >> there. >> >> ___ >> gnome-i18n mailing list >> gnome-i18n@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > > Do you have libc locale assigned for this orthography? > /Ihar Wouldn't this be ru_RU ? cjl ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Russian in traditional orthography support
On 09/13/2011 09:58 PM, -скрыто- Алекса wrote: > > (In continuation of discussion from 2011-04-01) > > So what's about my team registration request? Since Gnome also provide GTK > toolkit, it is important to have the support and standardized locale name > there. > > ___ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n Do you have libc locale assigned for this orthography? /Ihar ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
