Re: Names in .desktop files [wad: Use of the IM word in Empathy]
On 8/2/09, Luca Ferretti wrote: > 2009/8/2 Frederic Peters : > >> In this case, the Name of the application is "Empathy", and its > >> "GenericName" could be "Instant Messenger". > > > > Btw, this is a question for translators, there is currently a proposal > > posted to freedesktop to enhance the spec with a new "FullName" key, > > as naively combining Name and GenericName wouldn't work in all > > languages; it would be quite helpful to have some concrete examples. > > I wrote a simillar proposal some time ago here[1]; the main difference > is that I suggested a programmatical approach to "build" the FullName. > > From a i18n/l10n point of view, this could help to have homogeneus > FullNames. In fact, let me assume that you'll add a new FullName > property to .desktop file, such as > > Name=GEdit > GenericName=Text Editor > FullName=GEdit Text Editor > > and > > Name=Transmission > GenericName=Bittorrent Client > FullName=Transmission Bittorrent Client > > The actual translation of FullName key value will depend on single > translator, and could change within the same language, expecially for > translations of applications outside gnome.org. So you could have > > FullName[it]=Editor di testo GEdit > (GenericName Name) > > FullName[it]=Transmission - Client bittorrent > (Name - GenericName) > > This could be really bad for usability :( > The programmatical approach will help to have the same layout for all > applications: just put a "%$1s %$2s" translatable message in glib or > gnome-menus and let translation team to pick up their preferred > localized layout. > > My suggestion, if applicable, is to fix the usage of Name key in > desktop files from GNOME/Gtk+ apps and follow KDE approach, see [2]. > Well, the "GenericName (Name)" default maybe is not the best :) > > > > For example, in French, it wouldn't be "Name + GenericName" (ex: > > "Rhythmbox" "Music Player") but "GenericName + Name" (ex: "Lecteur de > > musique" "Rhythmbox"), and that rule (afaik) would work in all cases. > > > > Would such a simple rule exist for all languages? > > In Italian language the "rule" is `GenericName Name`, but as > translation team we allowed to use `Name - GenericaName`. We choosed > this approach to highlitgh both the "branding" (Name) and the usage > (GenericName) > > [1] > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2008-March/msg00325.html > [2] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2009-July/010809.html Any programmatical approach would not work for Scandinavian languages or any other language that uses suffixes or prefixes, like for example as used for the definite article. See my reply on xdg-list: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2009-August/010853.html Christian ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Use of the IM word in Empathy
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 21:15 +0200, Luca Ferretti wrote: > 2009/8/2 Shaun McCance : > > > > As for the Categories key in the desktop entry file, > > neither InstantMessaging nor IM are recognized: > > > > http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/1.0/apa.html > > > > InstantMessaging is in second table, between Dialup and Chat (all > additional categories) Wow. How did I miss that? -- Shaun ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Use of the IM word in Empathy
2009/8/2 Shaun McCance : > > As for the Categories key in the desktop entry file, > neither InstantMessaging nor IM are recognized: > > http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/1.0/apa.html > InstantMessaging is in second table, between Dialup and Chat (all additional categories) ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Use of the IM word in Empathy
CCing Sjoerd, so he can give input. On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 13:57 +0200, Milo Casagrande wrote: > Hi, > > I was checking the new version of Empathy today and noticed a change > in the terminology used, in particular the use of "IM" instead of > "instant messaging|messenger". > > The commit I'm referring is this one: > > http://git.gnome.org/cgit/empathy/commit/?id=e0f2c0a49153280c723a293f2dcda0dffd931ec2 > > There has been some kind of discussion on the gnome-doc mailing list > some time ago, about the use of the "IM" term: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2008-April/msg00022.html > > I don't know if it's possible to revert that change, but I think it > should be taken in consideration. FWIW, I personally prefer the "long" > version rather than the "short" one from an i18n point of view. > > Whatever the outcome, I'm not so sure that an "IM" category exists. > From the commit: > > -Categories=GNOME;GTK;Network;InstantMessaging; > +Categories=GNOME;GTK;Network;IM; > > That one should be InstantMessaging. In my highly unscientific straw poll of asking my wife, she hesitantly answered "instant messenger" for "IM", but she was confused by the word "client". She thinks of herself as the client. As for the Categories key in the desktop entry file, neither InstantMessaging nor IM are recognized: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/1.0/apa.html Maybe something to take up on freedesktop.org? -- Shaun ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Names in .desktop files [wad: Use of the IM word in Empathy]
2009/8/2 Frederic Peters : >> In this case, the Name of the application is "Empathy", and its >> "GenericName" could be "Instant Messenger". > > Btw, this is a question for translators, there is currently a proposal > posted to freedesktop to enhance the spec with a new "FullName" key, > as naively combining Name and GenericName wouldn't work in all > languages; it would be quite helpful to have some concrete examples. I wrote a simillar proposal some time ago here[1]; the main difference is that I suggested a programmatical approach to "build" the FullName. >From a i18n/l10n point of view, this could help to have homogeneus FullNames. In fact, let me assume that you'll add a new FullName property to .desktop file, such as Name=GEdit GenericName=Text Editor FullName=GEdit Text Editor and Name=Transmission GenericName=Bittorrent Client FullName=Transmission Bittorrent Client The actual translation of FullName key value will depend on single translator, and could change within the same language, expecially for translations of applications outside gnome.org. So you could have FullName[it]=Editor di testo GEdit (GenericName Name) FullName[it]=Transmission - Client bittorrent (Name - GenericName) This could be really bad for usability :( The programmatical approach will help to have the same layout for all applications: just put a "%$1s %$2s" translatable message in glib or gnome-menus and let translation team to pick up their preferred localized layout. My suggestion, if applicable, is to fix the usage of Name key in desktop files from GNOME/Gtk+ apps and follow KDE approach, see [2]. Well, the "GenericName (Name)" default maybe is not the best :) > For example, in French, it wouldn't be "Name + GenericName" (ex: > "Rhythmbox" "Music Player") but "GenericName + Name" (ex: "Lecteur de > musique" "Rhythmbox"), and that rule (afaik) would work in all cases. > > Would such a simple rule exist for all languages? > In Italian language the "rule" is `GenericName Name`, but as translation team we allowed to use `Name - GenericaName`. We choosed this approach to highlitgh both the "branding" (Name) and the usage (GenericName) [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2008-March/msg00325.html [2] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2009-July/010809.html ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Use of the IM word in Empathy
Milo Casagrande wrote: > The commit I'm referring is this one: > > http://git.gnome.org/cgit/empathy/commit/?id=e0f2c0a49153280c723a293f2dcda0dffd931ec2 We are currently trying to clean up application desktop files, as many are playing games with the .desktop file spec to get what they want in the gnome-panel menus. This is definitely bad as different rules are being considered in gnome-shell, and are already in place in other desktop environments. In this case, the Name of the application is "Empathy", and its "GenericName" could be "Instant Messenger". Cheers, Frederic ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Names in .desktop files [wad: Use of the IM word in Empathy]
> In this case, the Name of the application is "Empathy", and its > "GenericName" could be "Instant Messenger". Btw, this is a question for translators, there is currently a proposal posted to freedesktop to enhance the spec with a new "FullName" key, as naively combining Name and GenericName wouldn't work in all languages; it would be quite helpful to have some concrete examples. For example, in French, it wouldn't be "Name + GenericName" (ex: "Rhythmbox" "Music Player") but "GenericName + Name" (ex: "Lecteur de musique" "Rhythmbox"), and that rule (afaik) would work in all cases. Would such a simple rule exist for all languages? Cheers, Frederic ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Use of the IM word in Empathy
Hi, I was checking the new version of Empathy today and noticed a change in the terminology used, in particular the use of "IM" instead of "instant messaging|messenger". The commit I'm referring is this one: http://git.gnome.org/cgit/empathy/commit/?id=e0f2c0a49153280c723a293f2dcda0dffd931ec2 There has been some kind of discussion on the gnome-doc mailing list some time ago, about the use of the "IM" term: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2008-April/msg00022.html I don't know if it's possible to revert that change, but I think it should be taken in consideration. FWIW, I personally prefer the "long" version rather than the "short" one from an i18n point of view. Whatever the outcome, I'm not so sure that an "IM" category exists. >From the commit: -Categories=GNOME;GTK;Network;InstantMessaging; +Categories=GNOME;GTK;Network;IM; That one should be InstantMessaging. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
