Re: [GNU-linux-libre] PureOS added to endorsed distro list - what about the kernel?

[Jason Self]

Not necessarily. My understanding is that there is an idea for how to
enable the loading of the proprietary firmware without also steering
people to it when it's not present. A partial patch for it already
exists in the linux-libre mailing list archives but it's a hard
problem and hasn't been fully solved yet. Interested people are free
to help. It would probably be best to coordinate with Alexandre Oliva.
My recollection is that there's a conversation about it in either the
linux-libre list archives, or this one. Perhaps even both places at
different times.

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] PureOS added to endorsed distro list - what about the kernel?

[Julie Marchant]

On 2017年12月22日 17:13, Henry Jensen wrote:
> As Jason Self mentioned in his answer, the use of the Debian kernel by
> PureOS should be considered a (freedom) bug.

I personally would prefer to see the requirement for the names of
firmware files to not me mentioned anywhere lifted, and for ConnochaetOS
to be reconsidered. I've given it some thought some time ago, and I
think it's silly. Linux is going to have to have a specific name for
every firmware file, and if the only firmware file that does the job for
a particular device, of course it's going to carry that name.

Consider the case of shebangs. Back before the GNU project started,
would it have been recommending the proprietary sh program that existed
in Unix to write "!/bin/sh" at the top of a shell script even if the
intention was to not /use the script until GNU Bash was developed and
could be used instead? It just seems a bit absurd.

-- 
Julie Marchant
https://onpon4.github.io

Protect your emails with GnuPG:
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org



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Re: [GNU-linux-libre] PureOS added to endorsed distro list - what about the kernel?

[Henry Jensen]

Hi Zlatan,

Am Fri, 22 Dec 2017 18:41:01 +0100
schrieb Zlatan Todoric :

> I will not read into thread but I can also add this: Debian kernel
> itself doesn't contain non-free firmware at all (they are separate
> packages in non-free repo that we sync too). Debian does allow if
> something wants to find firmware and it has non-free repo enabled,
> that it can be installed. This gets to bottom part...

This is well-known. However, it has been suggested on this list that
the act of requesting non-free firmware is something not wanted in a
free distribution, since it can lead users to install those non-free
firmware files, even if the distro itself does not provide them.

As Jason Self mentioned in his answer, the use of the Debian kernel by
PureOS should be considered a (freedom) bug.


Regards,

Henry

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] PureOS added to endorsed distro list - what about the kernel?

[Jason Self]

Henry Jensen  asked:
> So, of course I want to know how PureOS can use this Debian based
> kernel and be endorsed while ConnochaetOS can't?

As Donald implied there is a lot of work involved in review a distros so I 
imagine that this was missed. A primary difference is a willingness to 
correct mistakes, which from Don's email it seems that they have been so 
this seems a good opportunity to raise the issue in the PureOS bug tracker 
along with a CC to report-nonf...@fsf.org. Earn a GNU Buck. :)

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] PureOS added to endorsed distro list - what about the kernel?

[Zlatan Todoric]

Hi Henry,


On 12/22/2017 05:18 PM, Henry Jensen wrote:
> Hallo,
>
> congratulations for adding a great distro to the list.
>
> However, it seems that PureOS is not using the linux-libre kernel but a
> kernel based on Debian's Linux kernel.

Yes, that is correct.

>
> When I tried to get ConnochaetOS [0] on this list the last time, people
> explained to me, that ConnochaetOS can't be endorsed because it doesn't
> use linux-libre and the Debian based kernel requests non-free firmware
> files and does write the names of those files to the system log. See the
> thread at
> https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/gnu-linux-libre/2017-08/msg00013.html

I will not read into thread but I can also add this: Debian kernel
itself doesn't contain non-free firmware at all (they are separate
packages in non-free repo that we sync too). Debian does allow if
something wants to find firmware and it has non-free repo enabled, that
it can be installed. This gets to bottom part...

>
> Now, I installed PureOS and it seems, PureOS does use the same Debian
> based deblob mechanism as does ConnochaetOS.
>
> To verify it, I tried the PureOS ISO from
> https://downloads.puri.sm/snapshots/2017-11-11/pureos-8.0-live-amd64.hybrid.iso
> and booted it on a notebook with a wifi chip which does need non-free
> firmware. And indeed I see in dmesg the following message (among others):
>
> iwlwifi: :03:00.0 firmware: failed to load iwlwifi-6000g2a-6.ucode (-2)

And as you see it says "failed to load" which means, yes, it wanted to
see if there is such firmware in kernel but it couldn't find it. So, in
the end, Debian kernel is Free and PureOS archive is entirely based on
Debian main archive (no contrib and non-free) and there is no code that
is non-free in (we even do Freedom bugs in tracker to make Debian main
"more" Free).

>
> So, of course I want to know how PureOS can use this Debian based
> kernel and be endorsed while ConnochaetOS can't?

Well, if the only issue was Debian's kernel, I don't see it as stop sign
and you should re-apply. Notice that Debian kernel in past didn't deblob
firmware from it but in recent times that is the case now as well, so
maybe some people remember it like that.

>
>
> Regards,
>
> Henry

Cheers,

Z

>
>
>
>
> [0] https://connochaetos.org/
>
>
> On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:54:29 -0500
> Donald Robertson  wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> We just wanted to give the list a heads up on our forthcoming
>> announcement of adding PureOS to our list of endorsed distros. Quite
>> some time ago they wrote to this list and got feedback about their
>> distro. From that time, they've been working with us to address concerns
>> that were brought up in that thread, such as removing leftover
>> problematic code from Firefox, fixing up their bug tracker, and making
>> clearer the separation between Purism and PureOS. They've addressed our
>> concerns, and are actively maintaining freedom-related issues in their
>> bug tracker
>> . The
>> endorsement program depends on the community to help projects to
>> maintain their free status, and we are satisfied with PureOS's
>> commitment to maintaining that status. After this announcement, we'll be
>> moving our focus to working with other pending candidates for
>> endorsement, but maintaining a free distro is a task that needs
>> everyone's help. If there are issues that you can help PureOS with,
>> please do make use of the bug tracker, and make sure to CC
>>  so you can be rewarded with a GNU Buck
>>  if you do find a problem.
>> Thank you all for your help in bringing PureOS up to speed, and we look
>> forward to your continued help on future distros seeking endorsement.
>> -- 
>> Donald R. Robertson, III, J.D.
>> Licensing & Compliance Manager
>> Free Software Foundation
>> 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor
>> Boston, MA 02110
>> Phone +1-617-542-5942
>> Fax +1-617-542-2652 ex. 56
>>

[GNU-linux-libre] uruk gnu/linux

[alimiracle]

hi
What about adding uruk gnu/linux to fsf list of endorsed distros.
We asked this a year ago
But we don't know what happened in the end
now we ask again.
In this long tyme happened a lot of things
- we stil use trisquel  repository
but we now We got our repository
we put in it our uruk pkgs
and use it to send update to uruk gnu/linux
- we Issued uruk gnu/linux 2.0
I hope you help me to add uruk gnu/linux to fsf list of endorsed
distros.
And if you find  non free thing
Please tell me
to remove it
have fun and be free
ali miracle