Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
re all, i can see two problems in how this discussion has evolved. one is language: use of proper english spelled in long and fairly complicated phrases to enforce a position that was answered (let's trust at the upstream); the other one is a deja vu from the Lame diatribe wether is free or not: Debian maintainers at that time stated Lame is not free and were battled by people that took Mark Taylor's (upstream) statement at that time as true, without doubting upstream, but actually building freedom on top of its declarations. now i'm sorry for what happened and in general i also recommend to base your analysis on the original source code distributor and not on the distributions. ciao On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Rub�n Rodr�guez wrote: Do you know where to find a chromium source tarball which is verified free software? Please try in super secret site at www.chromium.org You can download alse an svn copy for developers at src.chromium.org So, either you verified that those sources are free software or you think there is no reason to doubt the upstream licensor about it. Since Debian people did check the contents of those sources and wrote the longest and most untrustworthy copyright file ever, I'm guessing you did the latter. May I ask if you do that with every package, and if that is the reason for leaving blobs inside UTUTO's kernel? They say is GPL2 after all. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:20:15 +0100 Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org wrote: re all, hey, now i'm sorry for what happened and in general i also recommend to base your analysis on the original source code distributor and not on the distributions. I assume you mean 'check to the distribution is correct and the problems are upstream', rather then 'ignore the analysis of all other distributions. Is my understanding correct? thanks, kk -- Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS) Debian contributor / gNewSense Maintainer http://www.kgoetz.id.au No, I won't join your social networking group signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 00:18:41 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez quil...@congresolibre.org wrote: El 23/03/11 12:09, Daniel Olivera escribió: El 23/03/11 17:37, Nicolás Reynolds escribió: .. Yo me retiro. Daniel has left the list. The translation below: Goodbye everyone this list has got me tyred. One more that has... The hell with you with this list that does nothing. I withdraw. Thanks for keeping us updated Quiliro. thanks, kk -- Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS) Debian contributor / gNewSense Maintainer http://www.kgoetz.id.au No, I won't join your social networking group signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
2011/3/26 Karl Goetz k...@kgoetz.id.au: On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:20:15 +0100 Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org wrote: re all, hey, now i'm sorry for what happened and in general i also recommend to base your analysis on the original source code distributor and not on the distributions. I assume you mean 'check to the distribution is correct and the problems are upstream', rather then 'ignore the analysis of all other distributions. Is my understanding correct? Hi all, reading this thread I got some conclusions. I think is important analize both sides, source code from developer web site/FTP and work out from distros. And, if you're in doubt, check source code ;) We're to help us making software libre and drop out closed software. m2c. Best, -- Facundo Andrés Bianco freenode/identica: vando
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:17:47 +0100 Daniel Olivera dan...@ututo.org wrote: El 23/03/11 17:04, Rubén Rodríguez escribió: Do you know where to find a chromium source tarball which is verified free software? Please try in super secret site at www.chromium.org You can download alse an svn copy for developers at src.chromium.org So, either you verified that those sources are free software or you think there is no reason to doubt the upstream licensor about it. Since Debian people did check the contents of those sources and wrote the longest and most untrustworthy copyright file ever, I'm guessing you did the latter. May I ask if you do that with every package, and if that is the reason for leaving blobs inside UTUTO's kernel? They say is GPL2 after all. Saludos a todos esta lista me canso. Una mas As there was a bit of a diversion , could we get an english summary when you're done? :) thanks, kk -- Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS) Debian contributor / gNewSense Maintainer http://www.kgoetz.id.au No, I won't join your social networking group signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
El 23/03/11 12:09, Daniel Olivera escribió: El 23/03/11 17:37, Nicolás Reynolds escribió: .. May I ask if you do that with every package, and if that is the reason for leaving blobs inside UTUTO's kernel? They say is GPL2 after all. Saludos a todos esta lista me canso. Una mas No se es mejor porque el otro sea peor. Se es mejor porque se crean mejores cosas. El software libre da asco en la actualidad, sobre todos quienes se auto nombran para el consejo de sabios Que yo sepa el SL es para crear espacios de libertad. Por si no sabian la inquisicion termino hace 500 años. Alla ustedes con esta lista que no aporta nada. Yo me retiro. Daniel has left the list. The translation below: Goodbye everyone this list has got me tyred. One more that has... One is not better because another is worse. One is better because one creates better stuff. Free software is disgusting now, especially those who are self named for the council of wise men In my bookFSis forcreating spaces for freedom. In case you did not know the Inquisition ended 500 years ago. The hell with you with this list that does nothing. I withdraw. -- Quiliro Ordóñez 09 821 8696 02 340 1517
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
El 23/03/11 17:44, Jason Self escribió: Quiliro Ordóñezquil...@congresolibre.org wrote .. Does this mean you cannot have the freedom to modify this information file? It doesn't specifically say that, no... only that you may recompile and redistribute. Nothing more. Nevertheless, it says all rights reserved. Doesn't that mean that all other right not specifically mentioned are reserved?
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
Quiliro Ordóñez quil...@congresolibre.org wrote .. Nevertheless, it says all rights reserved. Doesn't that mean that all other right not specifically mentioned are reserved? Yes, but it's not due to that satement. With today's copyright law, All Rights Reserved is the default state of things -- automatically, just by virtue of having been written -- and that phrase no longer needs to be included to make it so. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_rights_reserved signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
Daniel Olivera wrote: Saludos a todos esta lista me canso. Una mas This list is meant for cooperation between distributions around the world. I think the best way to make that work is to keep discussion in English.
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:56:17 +0100 Daniel Olivera dan...@ututo.org wrote: El 23/03/11 03:36, Rubén Rodríguez escribió: The copyright file provided by google (the one linked at the LP blacklist) is ok, but the actual copyright file provided by Ubuntu is this humongous thing: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/c/chromium-browser/chromium-browser_10.0.648.133~r77742-0ubuntu0.10.10.1/copyright It includes things marked as Copyright: UNKNOWN: License: *No copyright* UNKNOWN That is problem only for ubuntu or debian. Only if the UNKNOWN files only exist in ubuntu and debian. The debian one (they have it in stable/main) is about the same. ¿Could someone specify which so it can be removed/replaced for Ututo? Use free code from source not debian or ubuntu packages. Obviously for copied-ubuntu/debian-based distribution is a hard work because the only one option is remove packages. Patching code isn't hard. rewriting chunks of a complex code base are. Unless you have a particular reason to think Debian/ubuntu have their analysis wrong (noting that its always a work in progress, these things dont stay static) could you expand on it? For what its worth, I just did some spot checks on files listed as UNKNOWN and some have been updated in the svn repo. Hopefully this continues :) Best happy hacking!! and you! :) thanks, kk -- Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS) Debian contributor / gNewSense Maintainer http://www.kgoetz.id.au No, I won't join your social networking group signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
El 23/03/11 13:23, Rubén Rodríguez escribió: It includes things marked as Copyright: UNKNOWN: License: *No copyright* UNKNOWN That is problem only for ubuntu or debian. I don't understand why, could you explain this? I dont use more of my time for these. The debian one (they have it in stable/main) is about the same. ¿Could someone specify which so it can be removed/replaced for Ututo? Use free code from source not debian or ubuntu packages. Do you know where to find a chromium source tarball which is verified free software? Please try in super secret site at www.chromium.org You can download alse an svn copy for developers at src.chromium.org Obviously for copied-ubuntu/debian-based distribution is a hard work because the only one option is remove packages. I see no difference in cleaning an upstream tarball or a debianized one. You say I see no difference. I think if you see different you can understand it? happy hacking!! -- Daniel Olivera (mate.cosido) Director Proyecto UTUTO (Argentina) Miembro Free Software Foundation (6839)(Estados Unidos) Soy y sere comunista hasta el ultimo dia de mi vida La tecnologia nunca fue, es, ni sera importante, si pierde de vista el tener como objetivo la calidad de vida del ser humano y su motor es otro que transformarla. Nosotros no perdonamos, no nos reconcialiamos, no olvidamos... 3 compañeros desaparecidos,... presentes!! Correo Electrónico : dan...@ututo.org - ut...@members.fsf.org Huella gpg: 3516 D65C 3E39 DE62 107B 34C7 7795 9313 A509 B533 Fijos: Argentina: +54 11 5353 9494 Ext: 2943434 España : +34 957 780 957 Ext: 2 iNum : +883 510001 192469 Movil : España: +34 693 801 999 Fax : España: +34 952 568 279 iNum : +883 510001 192469 Mensajeros: Google: ututo01 MSN : doliv...@msn.com 0xA509B533.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
Thank you very much people. I now have a clearer panorama. Can conclude (as of the info provided) that Debian and Ubuntu introduce a lot of files/licencing changes in Chromium that are not on the source of Chromium?
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
I now have a clearer panorama. How? Can conclude (as of the info provided) that Debian and Ubuntu introduce a lot of files/licencing changes in Chromium that are not on the source of Chromium? No, they don't. What they do is actually look into the files they distribute instead of assume the upstream license is ok. That's why their copyright file is more detailed.
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
Il giorno mer, 23/03/2011 alle 09.42 -0500, Quiliro Ordóñez ha scritto: Thank you very much people. I now have a clearer panorama. Can conclude (as of the info provided) that Debian and Ubuntu introduce a lot of files/licencing changes in Chromium that are not on the source of Chromium? I don't think debian/ubuntu introduce anything. the changelog posted by Rubén try to enumerate every licence/copyright notice found in the source, but most are marked as 'unknown' because they haven't (this not mean those files are not free by dafault, but probably needs to be checked out). For example, two files marked as unknown: #---# http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/base/third_party/purify/pure.h?view=markup #---# /* * Header file of Pure API function declarations. * * (C) Copyright IBM Corporation. 2006, 2006. All Rights Reserved. * You may recompile and redistribute these definitions as required. * * Version 1.0 */ #---# http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/base/third_party/purify/pure_api.c?view=markup #---# /* * Header file of Pure API function declarations. * * Explicitly no copyright. * You may recompile and redistribute these definitions as required. -- me - http://crap0101.gnu-darwin.org/ signature.asc Description: Questa è una parte del messaggio firmata digitalmente
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
Do you know where to find a chromium source tarball which is verified free software? Please try in super secret site at www.chromium.org You can download alse an svn copy for developers at src.chromium.org So, either you verified that those sources are free software or you think there is no reason to doubt the upstream licensor about it. Since Debian people did check the contents of those sources and wrote the longest and most untrustworthy copyright file ever, I'm guessing you did the latter. May I ask if you do that with every package, and if that is the reason for leaving blobs inside UTUTO's kernel? They say is GPL2 after all.
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
El 23/03/11 10:14, Rubén Rodríguez escribió: I now have a clearer panorama. How? With the info provided in this thread and the one in Ututo's list. Can conclude (as of the info provided) that Debian and Ubuntu introduce a lot of files/licencing changes in Chromium that are not on the source of Chromium? No, they don't. What they do is actually look into the files they distribute instead of assume the upstream license is ok. That's why their copyright file is more detailed. OK. Thank you for the information.
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
El 23/03/11 11:17, Daniel Olivera escribió: El 23/03/11 17:04, Rubén Rodríguez escribió: Do you know where to find a chromium source tarball which is verified free software? Please try in super secret site at www.chromium.org You can download alse an svn copy for developers at src.chromium.org So, either you verified that those sources are free software or you think there is no reason to doubt the upstream licensor about it. Since Debian people did check the contents of those sources and wrote the longest and most untrustworthy copyright file ever, I'm guessing you did the latter. May I ask if you do that with every package, and if that is the reason for leaving blobs inside UTUTO's kernel? They say is GPL2 after all. Saludos a todos esta lista me canso. Una mas No se es mejor porque el otro sea peor. Se es mejor porque se crean mejores cosas. El software libre da asco en la actualidad, sobre todos quienes se auto nombran para el consejo de sabios Que yo sepa el SL es para crear espacios de libertad. Por si no sabian la inquisicion termino hace 500 años. Alla ustedes con esta lista que no aporta nada. Yo creo que todo el trabajo que contribuya a que se conozca la verdad y nos ayude a todos a verificar que el software que se incluya aporta mucho para el desarrollo de todos los proyectos libres.
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
El 23/03/11 05:17, Daniel Olivera dijo: El 23/03/11 17:04, Rubén Rodríguez escribió: Do you know where to find a chromium source tarball which is verified free software? Please try in super secret site at www.chromium.org You can download alse an svn copy for developers at src.chromium.org So, either you verified that those sources are free software or you think there is no reason to doubt the upstream licensor about it. Since Debian people did check the contents of those sources and wrote the longest and most untrustworthy copyright file ever, I'm guessing you did the latter. May I ask if you do that with every package, and if that is the reason for leaving blobs inside UTUTO's kernel? They say is GPL2 after all. Saludos a todos esta lista me canso. Una mas No se es mejor porque el otro sea peor. Se es mejor porque se crean mejores cosas. El software libre da asco en la actualidad, sobre todos quienes se auto nombran para el consejo de sabios Que yo sepa el SL es para crear espacios de libertad. Por si no sabian la inquisicion termino hace 500 años. Alla ustedes con esta lista que no aporta nada. Yo me retiro. Me parece que hizo preguntas que vale la pena responder, aunque el tono del hilo haya subido bastante. -- Salud! Nicolás Reynolds, xmpp:fa...@kiwwwi.com.ar omb:http://identi.ca/fauno blog:http://selfdandi.com.ar/ gnu/linux user #455044 OTR: C0CB1F0F 01DB5E18 2D634C2A A4626858 E7C7C3A2 http://parabolagnulinux.org http://endefensadelsl.org pgphrr8DAPv1i.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
El 23/03/11 10:25, crap0101 escribió: Il giorno mer, 23/03/2011 alle 09.42 -0500, Quiliro Ordóñez ha scritto: Thank you very much people. I now have a clearer panorama. Can conclude (as of the info provided) that Debian and Ubuntu introduce a lot of files/licencing changes in Chromium that are not on the source of Chromium? I don't think debian/ubuntu introduce anything. the changelog posted by Rubén try to enumerate every licence/copyright notice found in the source, but most are marked as 'unknown' because they haven't (this not mean those files are not free by dafault, but probably needs to be checked out). Thanks for the info Crap0101. For example, two files marked as unknown: #---# http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/base/third_party/purify/pure.h?view=markup #---# /* * Header file of Pure API function declarations. * * (C) Copyright IBM Corporation. 2006, 2006. All Rights Reserved. * You may recompile and redistribute these definitions as required. Does this mean you cannot have the freedom to modify this information file? If this is the case, then it is not free.
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
El 23/03/11 17:37, Nicolás Reynolds escribió: .. May I ask if you do that with every package, and if that is the reason for leaving blobs inside UTUTO's kernel? They say is GPL2 after all. Saludos a todos esta lista me canso. Una mas No se es mejor porque el otro sea peor. Se es mejor porque se crean mejores cosas. El software libre da asco en la actualidad, sobre todos quienes se auto nombran para el consejo de sabios Que yo sepa el SL es para crear espacios de libertad. Por si no sabian la inquisicion termino hace 500 años. Alla ustedes con esta lista que no aporta nada. Yo me retiro. Me parece que hizo preguntas que vale la pena responder, aunque el tono del hilo haya subido bastante. Normalmente en estas listas algo falsas de encontrar la verdad de la verdad y perder el tiempo en ello no son mas que un metodo de perder el tiempo. Para saber si un software es libre con leer la licencia alcanza. Debatir sobre la interpretacion de la licencia como si fuese algun libro antiguo no hace mas que molestar y no tiene sentido. Luego cuando las cosas ya rayan el ridiculo. Como buscar lo que dice ubuntu de chromium en ves de buscar lo que dicen los autores de chromium, la salida es desviar hacia a atacar a algun grupo que suele tenersele algo de envidia y mucho de rabia. UTUTO cae en ese objetivo,porque no esta alineado, tiene su propia via y estudia, aprende, no abre debates sobre el sexo de los angeles El SL es un camino que puede mostrar algo de libertad. Pero esa libertad no es para el software, es para el humano que hace uso de este. Debatir si en el sitio de ubuntu, chromium dice unknow es perder el tiempo. Saludos happy hacking!! -- Daniel Olivera (mate.cosido) Director Proyecto UTUTO (Argentina) Miembro Free Software Foundation (6839)(Estados Unidos) Soy y sere comunista hasta el ultimo dia de mi vida La tecnologia nunca fue, es, ni sera importante, si pierde de vista el tener como objetivo la calidad de vida del ser humano y su motor es otro que transformarla. Nosotros no perdonamos, no nos reconcialiamos, no olvidamos... 3 compañeros desaparecidos,... presentes!! Correo Electrónico : dan...@ututo.org - ut...@members.fsf.org Huella gpg: 3516 D65C 3E39 DE62 107B 34C7 7795 9313 A509 B533 Fijos: Argentina: +54 11 5353 9494 Ext: 2943434 España : +34 957 780 957 Ext: 2 iNum : +883 510001 192469 Movil : España: +34 693 801 999 Fax : España: +34 952 568 279 iNum : +883 510001 192469 Mensajeros: Google: ututo01 MSN : doliv...@msn.com 0xA509B533.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
El 23/03/11 12:09, Daniel Olivera escribió: El 23/03/11 17:37, Nicolás Reynolds escribió: .. May I ask if you do that with every package, and if that is the reason for leaving blobs inside UTUTO's kernel? They say is GPL2 after all. Saludos a todos esta lista me canso. Una mas No se es mejor porque el otro sea peor. Se es mejor porque se crean mejores cosas. El software libre da asco en la actualidad, sobre todos quienes se auto nombran para el consejo de sabios Que yo sepa el SL es para crear espacios de libertad. Por si no sabian la inquisicion termino hace 500 años. Alla ustedes con esta lista que no aporta nada. Yo me retiro. Me parece que hizo preguntas que vale la pena responder, aunque el tono del hilo haya subido bastante. Normalmente en estas listas algo falsas de encontrar la verdad de la verdad y perder el tiempo en ello no son mas que un metodo de perder el tiempo. Pienso que todos los pasos para verificar si algo es libre no es pérdida de tiempo. Es la esencia del movimiento de software libre y es lo que Richard siempre hace. Para saber si un software es libre con leer la licencia alcanza. Debatir sobre la interpretacion de la licencia como si fuese algun libro antiguo no hace mas que molestar y no tiene sentido. No es por ahí que (al menos yo) se está yendo. Entiendo que el software contiene muchos archivos y que las licencias de cada uno pueden ser distintas. Luego cuando las cosas ya rayan el ridiculo. Como buscar lo que dice ubuntu de chromium en ves de buscar lo que dicen los autores de chromium, la salida es desviar hacia a atacar a algun grupo que suele tenersele algo de envidia y mucho de rabia. No está eso en la página de Ubuntu. Está en la de Chromium. Es aquí por ejemplo: http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/base/third_party/purify/pure.h?view=markup El punto es: ¿esto es libre? Lo pregunto porque no lo se. Quiero saber y no es para molestar. UTUTO cae en ese objetivo,porque no esta alineado, tiene su propia via y estudia, aprende, no abre debates sobre el sexo de los angeles El SL es un camino que puede mostrar algo de libertad. Pero esa libertad no es para el software, es para el humano que hace uso de este. Debatir si en el sitio de ubuntu, chromium dice unknow es perder el tiempo. No es por Ubuntu. Ubuntu como Linux, Chomium o miles de otros son fuentes de información a verificar. ¿Quizá lo que quieres decir es: Muestren cuáles son los archivos privativos que tiene Chromium?
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
Quiliro Ordóñez quil...@congresolibre.org wrote .. Does this mean you cannot have the freedom to modify this information file? It doesn't specifically say that, no... only that you may recompile and redistribute. Nothing more. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Software_blacklist#chromium-browser says: (1) Copyright or license of some code is unclear (2) Links to proprietary plugins. ¿Could someone specify which so it can be removed/replaced for Ututo?
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] chromium not free?
http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Software_blacklist#chromium-browser says: (1) Copyright or license of some code is unclear (2) Links to proprietary plugins. The copyright file provided by google (the one linked at the LP blacklist) is ok, but the actual copyright file provided by Ubuntu is this humongous thing: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/c/chromium-browser/chromium-browser_10.0.648.133~r77742-0ubuntu0.10.10.1/copyright It includes things marked as Copyright: UNKNOWN: License: *No copyright* UNKNOWN The debian one (they have it in stable/main) is about the same. ¿Could someone specify which so it can be removed/replaced for Ututo? I think it would require some effort to sort that out. It might even be fully free, it is hard to tell.
