Re: [GNC] [GNC-dev] Automatically split transactions with sales tax
On 12/11/18 12:08 am, Adrien Monteleone wrote: Calm down. The business features are the better route certainly. And if you have 1000 transactions, then the even better route is to use some other software to generate a CSV to import. On that scale, probably a point of sale system that integrates with GnuCash via python and/or a MySQL backend is more sane. The OP didn’t seem to indicate they were entering 1000s of transactions (but vaguely said “a lot”) and they specifically were looking for a General Ledger (but somehow automatic) solution. Taking advantage of auto-fill with a few formulas is about the best to hope for under that restriction. I didn’t mean it as the optimum solution. Regards, Adrien I'm very passionate about entering data! :-) The data isn't something the business features cater for, not unless you want to do 15 clicks per entry. Stuff like if you buy a folder for the office, and some coffee and other random things that you accumulate over a month. You might have 30 transactions like this a month, after a few years of entering it manually I got sick of it enough to do something about it. Anyway my workflow goes like this. Download a month's transactions or so. Run the qif file through the importer where it adds a gst split, and deletes transactions I import in other ways (mostly payroll). Upload using the qif importer, most of the regular transactions are matched, the rest go into unspecified where I allocate them. Takes maybe 5-10 minutes for 150 total transactions or so. Splitting each transaction to add gst used to take ages, and just as long if I used the business features. I have no idea if my situation is a minority because it's hard to tell reading the list what volume of transactions people do, and what sort of business. Cheers Lawrence On Nov 11, 2018, at 5:23 AM, elvis wrote: Seriously? Are you just telling someone to type stuff stuff in? The WHOLE point of computers is to automate stuff. What if they have 1000 transactions? At a minute a transaction that a whole day entering stuff that could be in under a SECOND I know if you have a hammer everything looks like a nail, but really we should be thinking of inventing a better hammer... or eliminating the screw entirely. On 11/11/18 3:23 pm, Adrien Monteleone wrote: Chris, If for some reason you don’t want to use the business features and prefer to enter transactions manually, the auto-fill feature helps greatly for this case. I enter all of my cash expenses with a separate sales tax split. (I’m not in a VAT locale, this is ‘in addition to’ sales tax) The principle should be the same for VAT but the math might vary. If you’re entering a transaction for the same payee, GnuCash will autofill the splits from the last entry for that payee. So if you’ve entered a split for GST, it will show up there. The difference then for each transaction will be your memo, possibly your income/expense account will need to change, and then the actual math, but the GST split will be added for you saving a few keystrokes. In your case, for the item itself, enter the price as a formula and subtract the GST (I’m presuming it is inclusive) as "price / 1+(GST rate)” So if your price inclusive of tax is $2.10 your formula is: 2.10 / 1.05lyl which will give you your ‘pre-tax’ amount or in this example: $2.00 Then the GST split will automatically “be” the tax. (if you’ve already entered the opposing split) If you want to double check it with a formula (helpful for more complicated entries with multiple other splits) then enter this as “price - (price / 1(GST rate)” So the above example would be: 2.10 - (2.10 / 1.05) Which would result in a GST split amount of $0.10. Of course, these number look easy but the formulas work no matter how ‘messy’ the rate. It isn’t automatic, but it does save time and is very easy to do, especially with practice. Note, if you really need to enter the price for the item including GST, but also want a separate split to break it off to a GST Due or some such account, then you’ll need an additional split with a memo something like “GST/Tax Inclusive” and make it the reverse entry of the item. (so a credit to an expense account or a debit to a revenue/income account) and set its value to the amount of the GST split, thus your transaction will still balance. For example: Cr. Cash$105 Dr. Expense:Supplies$105 -memo “paper" Cr. Expenses:Supplies $5 -memo “GST Inclusive” Dr. Expenses:GST$5 -memo “GST 5%" - or - Dr. Cash$105 Cr. Revenue:Sales $105 -memo “widgets” Dr. Revenue:Sales $5 -memo “GST inclusive” Cr. Liabilities:GST Due $5 -memo “GST 5%" Of course, talk to a local CPA to make sure your reports are reflecting the proper amounts and adjust these entries as needed. These are just rough examples. *Tip - because I pay different tax rates due to purchase location, I include the ra
Re: [GNC] [GNC-dev] Automatically split transactions with sales tax
On 11/11/2018 6:23 AM, elvis wrote: Seriously? Are you just telling someone to type stuff stuff in? The WHOLE point of computers is to automate stuff. What if they have 1000 transactions? At a minute a transaction that a whole day entering stuff that could be in under a SECOND I know if you have a hammer everything looks like a nail, but really we should be thinking of inventing a better hammer... or eliminating the screw entirely. Well yes, and this used to be exactly my line of country, writing "sproj's" (special projects; ad hoc programs) to generate thousands of transactions. Well more like tens of thousands, which would be a lot of end users entering by hand for day after after day. But please take note of that "ad hoc" because almost never EXACTLY the same even when the same type of transaction being generated. Sure, I had useful skeletons in my library, 90+% of the program going to be the same but needing changes before each use << my main activity my last few weeks before retirement was to get that library indexed "this skeleton is good for that" so junior programmers could use it >> THAT is why this sort of thing best done OUTSIDE of gnucash, a stand alone program (that took "instruction input" and data input) which created a file to be imported. Not PART of gnucash because one user's needs will not be the same as another's. To make this clear . Person who made the initial request please describe YOUR situation in detail. What input would you be expecting to feed this program and how would it calculate the tax amount to be split? ALL things sold taxed at the same rate in your jurisdiction? That would not be true for other users. Simple rate? Or something odd for fractions of a dollar (every state I've lived in with a sales tax had special rules for that). USUALLY business systems designed to handle sales have a component that does this, usually called a POS (point of sales) component and THAT generates transactions which feed the general ledger program << POS would also produce feeds to the inventory system >> Gnucash is JUST "general ledger". Personally I think that there should be teams working on these other sorts of systems (to have an open source POS, and open source "inventory", etc.). However it is important to note that POS systems are often sold by the same company that sells the register (doing things like keeping track of cash, producing customer receipts, etc.). Might be far fetched to expect one of these outfits to produce something to feed gnucash << but here could sit an open source program to CONVERT the output to what gnucash wanted >> Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] [GNC-dev] Automatically split transactions with sales tax
Calm down. The business features are the better route certainly. And if you have 1000 transactions, then the even better route is to use some other software to generate a CSV to import. On that scale, probably a point of sale system that integrates with GnuCash via python and/or a MySQL backend is more sane. The OP didn’t seem to indicate they were entering 1000s of transactions (but vaguely said “a lot”) and they specifically were looking for a General Ledger (but somehow automatic) solution. Taking advantage of auto-fill with a few formulas is about the best to hope for under that restriction. I didn’t mean it as the optimum solution. Regards, Adrien > On Nov 11, 2018, at 5:23 AM, elvis wrote: > > Seriously? Are you just telling someone to type stuff stuff in? The WHOLE > point of computers is to automate stuff. > > What if they have 1000 transactions? At a minute a transaction that a whole > day entering stuff that could be in under a SECOND > > I know if you have a hammer everything looks like a nail, but really we > should be thinking of inventing a better hammer... or eliminating the screw > entirely. > > > On 11/11/18 3:23 pm, Adrien Monteleone wrote: >> Chris, >> >> If for some reason you don’t want to use the business features and prefer to >> enter transactions manually, the auto-fill feature helps greatly for this >> case. >> >> I enter all of my cash expenses with a separate sales tax split. (I’m not in >> a VAT locale, this is ‘in addition to’ sales tax) The principle should be >> the same for VAT but the math might vary. >> >> If you’re entering a transaction for the same payee, GnuCash will autofill >> the splits from the last entry for that payee. So if you’ve entered a split >> for GST, it will show up there. The difference then for each transaction >> will be your memo, possibly your income/expense account will need to change, >> and then the actual math, but the GST split will be added for you saving a >> few keystrokes. >> >> In your case, for the item itself, enter the price as a formula and subtract >> the GST (I’m presuming it is inclusive) as "price / 1+(GST rate)” >> >> So if your price inclusive of tax is $2.10 your formula is: >> >> 2.10 / 1.05lyl >> >> which will give you your ‘pre-tax’ amount or in this example: $2.00 >> >> Then the GST split will automatically “be” the tax. (if you’ve already >> entered the opposing split) >> >> If you want to double check it with a formula (helpful for more complicated >> entries with multiple other splits) then enter this as “price - (price / >> 1(GST rate)” >> >> So the above example would be: >> >> 2.10 - (2.10 / 1.05) >> >> Which would result in a GST split amount of $0.10. >> >> Of course, these number look easy but the formulas work no matter how >> ‘messy’ the rate. >> >> It isn’t automatic, but it does save time and is very easy to do, especially >> with practice. >> >> Note, if you really need to enter the price for the item including GST, but >> also want a separate split to break it off to a GST Due or some such >> account, then you’ll need an additional split with a memo something like >> “GST/Tax Inclusive” and make it the reverse entry of the item. (so a credit >> to an expense account or a debit to a revenue/income account) and set its >> value to the amount of the GST split, thus your transaction will still >> balance. >> >> For example: >> >> Cr. Cash $105 >> Dr. Expense:Supplies $105 >> -memo “paper" >> Cr. Expenses:Supplies$5 >> -memo “GST Inclusive” >> Dr. Expenses:GST $5 >> -memo “GST 5%" >> >> - or - >> >> Dr. Cash $105 >> Cr. Revenue:Sales$105 >> -memo “widgets” >> Dr. Revenue:Sales$5 >> -memo “GST inclusive” >> Cr. Liabilities:GST Due $5 >> -memo “GST 5%" >> >> Of course, talk to a local CPA to make sure your reports are reflecting the >> proper amounts and adjust these entries as needed. These are just rough >> examples. >> >> *Tip - because I pay different tax rates due to purchase location, I include >> the rate in the memo line for future reference should I need it. This too >> autofills not just from the previous entry, but if I start typing a name for >> the different jurisdiction, the previous rate and any other info from the >> most recent same memo gets auto-filled as well. >> >> Also, while you can enter transaction from the General Journal, entering >> them from the account that the money is going to/from is less error prone. >> So if you are paying out of your checking account, enter the transaction >> from there, one of the splits will HAVE to be a credit to the checking >> account. The others are going to be debits to balance against it. >> >> If you are receiving cash funds for example, then enter that in the >> Assets:Cash register as a debit and the other splits will have to be the >> offsetting credits. (likely an income/revenue account) >> >> The advantage here is yo
Re: [GNC] [GNC-dev] Automatically split transactions with sales tax
Seriously? Are you just telling someone to type stuff stuff in? The WHOLE point of computers is to automate stuff. What if they have 1000 transactions? At a minute a transaction that a whole day entering stuff that could be in under a SECOND I know if you have a hammer everything looks like a nail, but really we should be thinking of inventing a better hammer... or eliminating the screw entirely. On 11/11/18 3:23 pm, Adrien Monteleone wrote: Chris, If for some reason you don’t want to use the business features and prefer to enter transactions manually, the auto-fill feature helps greatly for this case. I enter all of my cash expenses with a separate sales tax split. (I’m not in a VAT locale, this is ‘in addition to’ sales tax) The principle should be the same for VAT but the math might vary. If you’re entering a transaction for the same payee, GnuCash will autofill the splits from the last entry for that payee. So if you’ve entered a split for GST, it will show up there. The difference then for each transaction will be your memo, possibly your income/expense account will need to change, and then the actual math, but the GST split will be added for you saving a few keystrokes. In your case, for the item itself, enter the price as a formula and subtract the GST (I’m presuming it is inclusive) as "price / 1+(GST rate)” So if your price inclusive of tax is $2.10 your formula is: 2.10 / 1.05lyl which will give you your ‘pre-tax’ amount or in this example: $2.00 Then the GST split will automatically “be” the tax. (if you’ve already entered the opposing split) If you want to double check it with a formula (helpful for more complicated entries with multiple other splits) then enter this as “price - (price / 1(GST rate)” So the above example would be: 2.10 - (2.10 / 1.05) Which would result in a GST split amount of $0.10. Of course, these number look easy but the formulas work no matter how ‘messy’ the rate. It isn’t automatic, but it does save time and is very easy to do, especially with practice. Note, if you really need to enter the price for the item including GST, but also want a separate split to break it off to a GST Due or some such account, then you’ll need an additional split with a memo something like “GST/Tax Inclusive” and make it the reverse entry of the item. (so a credit to an expense account or a debit to a revenue/income account) and set its value to the amount of the GST split, thus your transaction will still balance. For example: Cr. Cash$105 Dr. Expense:Supplies$105 -memo “paper" Cr. Expenses:Supplies $5 -memo “GST Inclusive” Dr. Expenses:GST$5 -memo “GST 5%" - or - Dr. Cash$105 Cr. Revenue:Sales $105 -memo “widgets” Dr. Revenue:Sales $5 -memo “GST inclusive” Cr. Liabilities:GST Due $5 -memo “GST 5%" Of course, talk to a local CPA to make sure your reports are reflecting the proper amounts and adjust these entries as needed. These are just rough examples. *Tip - because I pay different tax rates due to purchase location, I include the rate in the memo line for future reference should I need it. This too autofills not just from the previous entry, but if I start typing a name for the different jurisdiction, the previous rate and any other info from the most recent same memo gets auto-filled as well. Also, while you can enter transaction from the General Journal, entering them from the account that the money is going to/from is less error prone. So if you are paying out of your checking account, enter the transaction from there, one of the splits will HAVE to be a credit to the checking account. The others are going to be debits to balance against it. If you are receiving cash funds for example, then enter that in the Assets:Cash register as a debit and the other splits will have to be the offsetting credits. (likely an income/revenue account) The advantage here is you won’t accidentally choose the wrong account to send or place the money, the only variable here is why it was spent or why it was received. Regards, Adrien On Nov 10, 2018, at 3:09 PM, CHRISTOPHER PEARCE wrote: Hello all, I would like Gnucash to automatically create a split transaction for sales tax when a taxable product is bought/sold. I deal with a lot of transactions, and its a pain to manually enter the sales tax for each one. I'd rather just work within the general ledger and have Gnucash do it automatically. For example, I buy a widget for $100 + 5% GST = $105. I want Gnucash to automatically create the split, and allocate $5.00 to the GST liability account. Of course, the ability to override the default 5% would be necessary. Is what I'm asking for possible? I'm not a programmer, so I realize this may be a dumb question. (Frist time on this mailing list, so apologies if I break etiquette) Thanks, Chris -- Chris Pearce - President Fernwood Tax Solutions Vict
