[GNC] Gnucash,org url is now working

[Ken Pyzik]

Tested it this evening - 9:00PM PST in the US.  
www.gnucash.org now appears to be working.  FYI.

Ken


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Re: [GNC] Postgress connection string for nonstandard port

[Peter West]

Is it possible for you to set the PGPORT environment variable?


—
Peter West
p...@pbw.id.au
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”

> On 22 Feb 2023, at 11:01 am, Peter West  wrote:
> 
> I’m using the default port, so I can’t help there.
> 
> “Database” refers to the database, in my case, gnucash.
> 
> 
> —
> Peter West
> p...@pbw.id.au
> “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”
> 
>> On 22 Feb 2023, at 8:07 am, Bob Treumann  wrote:
>> 
>> I am running PG on an amazon server on a non standard port (6543).
>> 
>> The connection setup on gnucash does not have a filed to input the port.
>> I added the port to the end of the hostname, a style that has worked with
>> other applications.
>> 
>> There is a field to enter the "database", which in PG contains multiple
>> schemas.
>> The user is typically connected to a schema by a default path.
>> 
>> My questions are:
>> How do I define the port?
>> Does "Database" refer to "Schema"?
>> 
>> I would try every combination but the interface only gives me one chance.
>> It gives a "cannot connect" message then closes.
>> 
>> 
>> [image: image.png]
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Re: [GNC] Postgress connection string for nonstandard port

[Peter West]

I’m using the default port, so I can’t help there.

“Database” refers to the database, in my case, gnucash.


—
Peter West
p...@pbw.id.au
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”

> On 22 Feb 2023, at 8:07 am, Bob Treumann  wrote:
> 
> I am running PG on an amazon server on a non standard port (6543).
> 
> The connection setup on gnucash does not have a filed to input the port.
> I added the port to the end of the hostname, a style that has worked with
> other applications.
> 
> There is a field to enter the "database", which in PG contains multiple
> schemas.
> The user is typically connected to a schema by a default path.
> 
> My questions are:
> How do I define the port?
> Does "Database" refer to "Schema"?
> 
> I would try every combination but the interface only gives me one chance.
> It gives a "cannot connect" message then closes.
> 
> 
> [image: image.png]
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Re: [GNC] Account Types -- what are the implications of getting them wrong?

[Tim Rohrer]

Thank you David.

Would it be correct for me to assume that *any* account type can be edited 
prior to the addition of any data?

Either way, it sounds like this can be an iterative process to an extent. And 
that most negative consequences can be reversed with a little creativity.

Tim

> On Feb 20, 2023, at 20:56, David Cousens  wrote:
> 
> Tim ,
> 
> In most cases if you get an account type wrong you can edit the account type 
> and
> its parent account from the account tree structure. There may be some
> limitations associated with the type of the parent account which may have to 
> be
> worked around. In the worst case scenario you can create an account of the
> correct type and then delete the account of the wrong type. If there are
> transactions to the account you are deleting the dialogue will ask which 
> account
> you wish them transferred to and here you specify the new account of the 
> correct
> type. Apart from the basic top level account types Asset, Liability, Equity,
> Income and Expenses there are a number of account sub-types which are usually
> tied to aspects of the business features, stock trading etc
> 
> David Cousens
> 
>> On Mon, 2023-02-20 at 19:25 -0600, m...@tgr66.me wrote:
>> Thanks Jim for the reply.
>> 
 On Feb 20, 2023, at 15:49, Jim DeLaHunt  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It sounds like you are trying to answer two questions:
>>> 
>>> 1. How do you extract meaning from account name strings in incoming
>>> migration data, such that you can pick the appropriate GnuCash account type?
>> 
>> Ummm, sort of. Yes, I am asking myself that because I have to make decisions.
>> But I was really providing the scenarios to help shape the reader's thinking
>> about the implications.
>> 
>> Yes, the question I’m asking is in the subject line. I should have included 
>> it
>> more in the body. I did ask specifically in the body though if there was "any
>> negative implications of assigning too general of an account type to an
>> account?” I’m inclined to err on the side of general and tell the user they
>> need to review all of them and edit appropriately based on GnuCash’s
>> documentation. But, it is still a good challenge to get them as close to 
>> right
>> as possible.  
>> 
>> The decisions I’m making are naturally heavily influenced by my personal
>> account and categories structure in Quicken along with my understanding about
>> how GnuCash structures accounts and defines types. There are undoubtedly
>> members of this mailing list who migrated data from some other app to 
>> GnuCash.
>> They made decisions about account types, perhaps after creating their chart 
>> of
>> accounts, and they may have found adjustments were necessary because 
>> something
>> didn’t work as expected. I believe hearing that would be helpful to me and
>> others. 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 2. What are the GnuCash account types, and what are their meanings (or,
>>> purposes, or semantics)?
>>> 
>>> I think question 1 is up to you. It is not a GnuCash question.
>>> 
>>> The place to start for question 2 is the GnuCash /Help/ documentation, 5.1.
>>> *Types of GnuCash Accounts*[1]. You might find it helpful to consult the
>>> notes about what kinds of child account type each parent account type
>>> accepts.  Missing from this page is the Trading Account type.
>>> 
>> 
>> I had read
>> https://code.gnucash.org/docs/MAINT/group__Account.html#ga398c5d6f7a5127db7b81789e05262908
>>  <
>> https://code.gnucash.org/docs/MAINT/group__Account.html#ga398c5d6f7a5127db7b81789e05262908
>>> but will make sure to go back and read section 5.1. I appreciate that you’ve
>> highlighted that there can be child-parent mismatches as that is a real
>> implication. I realize that if a user migrating to GnuCash using the tool I’m
>> developing had a Credit Card under an Asset account, they could potentially
>> have a problem. I’m using PieCash for my GnuCash writes, and I *think* it
>> checks the parent-child rules, but I might want to test that.
>> 
>> 
>>> Trading accounts are described in the GnuCash /Tutorial and Concepts Guide/,
>>> 12.3. *Automatically Recording Currency Transactions using Trading
>>> Accounts*[2], and at wiki page *Trading Accounts*[3].
>>> 
>>> You might have to resort to reading the GnuCash code[4] to answer more
>>> detailed questions. I remember doing this once to clear up some of my own
>>> questions.
>>> 
>>> Your subject: line asks, "what are the implications of getting [Account
>>> Types] wrong?" I don't see you asking that in your message body. But as far
>>> as I know, the implication can be unusability if you get the account type
>>> very wrong (e.g. an Asset type for what should be an Expense type account),
>>> or inconvenience if you get the account type a little wrong (e.g. no option
>>> to add an interest payment during the reconciliation process if you assign a
>>> Liability type for what should be a Credit type account). Note that users
>>> can, within limits, change account types for a book which is in use. 

[GNC] Postgress connection string for nonstandard port

[Bob Treumann]

I am running PG on an amazon server on a non standard port (6543).

The connection setup on gnucash does not have a filed to input the port.
I added the port to the end of the hostname, a style that has worked with
other applications.

There is a field to enter the "database", which in PG contains multiple
schemas.
The user is typically connected to a schema by a default path.

My questions are:
How do I define the port?
Does "Database" refer to "Schema"?

I would try every combination but the interface only gives me one chance.
It gives a "cannot connect" message then closes.


[image: image.png]
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Re: [GNC] Cash on Hand [was: Interest Income]

[Larry Long]

 M/M Losey,
As you say, your actual cash funds can easily diverge from what is shown in 
your GNC 'Cash on Hand" account.Instead of periodically equalizing via a 
"Balance Adjustment" account, you might consider setting up some expense 
accounts that allow you to be more definitive.
For recording known spending, you could have some accounts such as these:   
   - Expenses:Gifts
   - Expenses:Gifts:Christmas
   - Expenses:Dining
   - Expenses:Dining:Cash Tips
   - Expenses:Personal Care
   - Expenses:Miscellaneous
When you get a haircut for example, you could enter that as a $25 transfer from 
"Assets:Cash on Hand" to "Expenses:Personal Care".
If you are like me, at the end of the month you might find only $60 in your 
wallet, while GNC shows $100 cash.  Knowing that you did, but not remembering 
where you spent the difference, you could always throw $40 in GNC from "Cash on 
Hand" into "Miscellaneous".
Larry 
On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 06:38:31 AM EST, 
gnucash-user-requ...@gnucash.org  wrote:  
 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2023 21:24:49 -0600
From: R Losey 
To: Abe Sternberg 
Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Interest Income
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

In your example, one account is the savings account and the other would be
something like "Income:Interest Income".

I'm a non-bookkeeper (though I have had an overview of accounting);
unfortunately, the general language which we use has "debit" used to mean
"to take away from" and "credit" meaning "to add to". I could learn the
proper distinction, but I just turn off the formal terms.


To me, the idea of double-entry just means that every transaction needs to
balance... for example, a deposit to your checking account doesn't come out
of thin air -- it's either a salary or a gift or a refund or something you
sold: there has to be SOMETHING that it came from.

I had to create a "balance adjustment" account, since when I cash a check,
I add the cash to "Cash on Hand", but some of that money is private
spending money for family members, and that isn't tracked, so I routinely
have to update the "Cash on Hand" balance.

...
  
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Re: [GNC] Account Types -- what are the implications of getting them wrong?

[Stan Brown]

Just a reminder -- please quote just enough to give the context of your
reply.

It's easy to put a three-line comment at the top of a ten-screen article
and hit "send", but then everyone who receives it gets to scroll through
ten screens to find out whether there's anything new buried there.

And _always_ trim the list trailer before posting -- the list server
will put another one there, and one is sufficient.

Thanks for your consideration!

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com

On 2023-02-21 03:33, Tim Rohrer wrote:
> Hi Simon,
> 
> I appreciate that perspective. 
> 
> I have considered only only assigning only top level types, because if 
> someone is importing 25 or 30 accounts (INCOME/EXPENSES types should be much 
> easier for most users), going through and editing them isn’t that difficult.
> 
> But as I said earlier, the challenge of getting them right the first time is 
> intriguing. :-)

 [ten screens deleted]
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Re: [GNC] Interest Income

[Abe Sternberg]

Good advice.

So much knowledge and savvy in the community.

Thanks again to all,

Abe

On 2/21/2023 04:32, Alan A Holmes wrote:

Hi Abe,

One thing that helped me to understand using GnuCash when I first started was the naming of 
the columns. If you unset Edit->Preferences->Accounts->Label->Use formal 
accounting labels you then get column headings such as Receive and Spend rather than Debit 
and Credit. Much easier to get my head around when I first started, more real world than 
accounting. In fact I've left it unset even after 3-4 years of using GnuCash, even though I 
know, more or less, what I'm doing now.



Alan A Holmes

-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  
On Behalf Of Abe Sternberg
Sent: 20 February 2023 20:17
To: Gyle McCollam;gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Interest Income

I understand that part.  If I buy clothes, I debit (-) the checking account and 
credit the clothes (+) account.  It is when things are not obvious or go to 
something like an equity account that I am totally at sea.

Thanks again,

Abe

On 2/20/2023 15:04, Gyle McCollam wrote:

Just think of double entry as when you are spending, the money comes
from some account and is spent on something (expense account).  When
you are receiving money, it comes from somewhere Income, donation,
etc. and gets put into some asset account, savings, building fund,
cash on hand.  There are two items for every expanse or receipt.

Thank You,

*Gyle McCollam*

Gyle McCollam

gmccol...@live.com  email

--
--
*From:* Abe Sternberg
*Sent:* Monday, February 20, 2023 2:53 PM
*To:* Gyle McCollam;gnucash-user@gnucash.org  


*Subject:* Re: [GNC] Interest Income
That sounds too simple - I'll try it.  I really get confused with this
double-entry business, but these records are for a non-profit and I
have to be sure they are kept correctly.

Regards,
Abe

On 2/20/2023 14:31, Gyle McCollam wrote:

Just a thought, if you haven't set up your savings account before and
you are setting up the initial balance as the transaction you are
referring to you would debit the savings account and credit an equity
account.  Most likely a beginning balances account.

Thank You,

*Gyle McCollam*

Gyle McCollam

gmccol...@live.com  email

-
---
*From:* gnucash-user

  on behalf
of Abe Sternberg  


*Sent:* Monday, February 20, 2023 12:46 PM
*To:*gnucash-user@gnucash.org    
  

*Subject:* [GNC] Interest Income
I have just started using Gnucash for my savings account, not much
money involved here, and wanted to enter my first transaction.  Not
being good at double-entry bookkeeping, I have no idea what are the
two off-setting accounts.  I imagine that I use income, but what is the other 
account?

Thanks for your help to a dumb guy.

Abe
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Re: [GNC] Account Types -- what are the implications of getting them wrong?

[ml]

Thank you David.

Would it be correct for me to assume that *any* account type can be edited 
prior to the addition of any data?

Either way, it sounds like this can be an iterative process to an extent. And 
that most negative consequences can be reversed with a little creativity.

Tim

> On Feb 20, 2023, at 20:56, David Cousens  wrote:
> 
> Tim ,
> 
> In most cases if you get an account type wrong you can edit the account type 
> and
> its parent account from the account tree structure. There may be some
> limitations associated with the type of the parent account which may have to 
> be
> worked around. In the worst case scenario you can create an account of the
> correct type and then delete the account of the wrong type. If there are
> transactions to the account you are deleting the dialogue will ask which 
> account
> you wish them transferred to and here you specify the new account of the 
> correct
> type. Apart from the basic top level account types Asset, Liability, Equity,
> Income and Expenses there are a number of account sub-types which are usually
> tied to aspects of the business features, stock trading etc
> 
> David Cousens
> 
>> On Mon, 2023-02-20 at 19:25 -0600, m...@tgr66.me wrote:
>> Thanks Jim for the reply.
>> 
 On Feb 20, 2023, at 15:49, Jim DeLaHunt  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It sounds like you are trying to answer two questions:
>>> 
>>> 1. How do you extract meaning from account name strings in incoming
>>> migration data, such that you can pick the appropriate GnuCash account type?
>> 
>> Ummm, sort of. Yes, I am asking myself that because I have to make decisions.
>> But I was really providing the scenarios to help shape the reader's thinking
>> about the implications.
>> 
>> Yes, the question I’m asking is in the subject line. I should have included 
>> it
>> more in the body. I did ask specifically in the body though if there was "any
>> negative implications of assigning too general of an account type to an
>> account?” I’m inclined to err on the side of general and tell the user they
>> need to review all of them and edit appropriately based on GnuCash’s
>> documentation. But, it is still a good challenge to get them as close to 
>> right
>> as possible.  
>> 
>> The decisions I’m making are naturally heavily influenced by my personal
>> account and categories structure in Quicken along with my understanding about
>> how GnuCash structures accounts and defines types. There are undoubtedly
>> members of this mailing list who migrated data from some other app to 
>> GnuCash.
>> They made decisions about account types, perhaps after creating their chart 
>> of
>> accounts, and they may have found adjustments were necessary because 
>> something
>> didn’t work as expected. I believe hearing that would be helpful to me and
>> others. 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 2. What are the GnuCash account types, and what are their meanings (or,
>>> purposes, or semantics)?
>>> 
>>> I think question 1 is up to you. It is not a GnuCash question.
>>> 
>>> The place to start for question 2 is the GnuCash /Help/ documentation, 5.1.
>>> *Types of GnuCash Accounts*[1]. You might find it helpful to consult the
>>> notes about what kinds of child account type each parent account type
>>> accepts.  Missing from this page is the Trading Account type.
>>> 
>> 
>> I had read
>> https://code.gnucash.org/docs/MAINT/group__Account.html#ga398c5d6f7a5127db7b81789e05262908
>> <
>> https://code.gnucash.org/docs/MAINT/group__Account.html#ga398c5d6f7a5127db7b81789e05262908
>>> but will make sure to go back and read section 5.1. I appreciate that you’ve
>> highlighted that there can be child-parent mismatches as that is a real
>> implication. I realize that if a user migrating to GnuCash using the tool I’m
>> developing had a Credit Card under an Asset account, they could potentially
>> have a problem. I’m using PieCash for my GnuCash writes, and I *think* it
>> checks the parent-child rules, but I might want to test that.
>> 
>> 
>>> Trading accounts are described in the GnuCash /Tutorial and Concepts Guide/,
>>> 12.3. *Automatically Recording Currency Transactions using Trading
>>> Accounts*[2], and at wiki page *Trading Accounts*[3].
>>> 
>>> You might have to resort to reading the GnuCash code[4] to answer more
>>> detailed questions. I remember doing this once to clear up some of my own
>>> questions.
>>> 
>>> Your subject: line asks, "what are the implications of getting [Account
>>> Types] wrong?" I don't see you asking that in your message body. But as far
>>> as I know, the implication can be unusability if you get the account type
>>> very wrong (e.g. an Asset type for what should be an Expense type account),
>>> or inconvenience if you get the account type a little wrong (e.g. no option
>>> to add an interest payment during the reconciliation process if you assign a
>>> Liability type for what should be a Credit type account). Note that users
>>> can, within limits, change account types for a book which is in use. That

Re: [GNC] Account Types -- what are the implications of getting them wrong?

[Tim Rohrer]

Hi Simon,

I appreciate that perspective. 

I have considered only only assigning only top level types, because if someone 
is importing 25 or 30 accounts (INCOME/EXPENSES types should be much easier for 
most users), going through and editing them isn’t that difficult.

But as I said earlier, the challenge of getting them right the first time is 
intriguing. :-)

Tim 

> On Feb 20, 2023, at 21:52, Simon Roberts  
> wrote:
> 
> FWIW, I have taken the perspective that if I don't know what
> category/account to put something in, I don't guess, I put it in
> "Unbalanced" and then ask someone who knows. As I understand it, there
> shouldn't be anything in that category, so it's a big red flag that you
> can't miss that this thing needs attention. Then at suitable intervals, you
> can ask your accountant, and learn. If you make a guess and get it wrong,
> there's no obvious way, other than a really thoughtful audit, questioning
> essentially everything, that will reliably catch all the erroneous guesses.
> 
> Just my two cents, of course, since I'm not an accountant either
> (presumably if I were, I'd not be suffering from these uncertainties!)
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 7:55 PM David Cousens 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Tim ,
>> 
>> In most cases if you get an account type wrong you can edit the account
>> type and
>> its parent account from the account tree structure. There may be some
>> limitations associated with the type of the parent account which may have
>> to be
>> worked around. In the worst case scenario you can create an account of the
>> correct type and then delete the account of the wrong type. If there are
>> transactions to the account you are deleting the dialogue will ask which
>> account
>> you wish them transferred to and here you specify the new account of the
>> correct
>> type. Apart from the basic top level account types Asset, Liability,
>> Equity,
>> Income and Expenses there are a number of account sub-types which are
>> usually
>> tied to aspects of the business features, stock trading etc
>> 
>> David Cousens
>> 
>>> On Mon, 2023-02-20 at 19:25 -0600, m...@tgr66.me wrote:
>>> Thanks Jim for the reply.
>>> 
 On Feb 20, 2023, at 15:49, Jim DeLaHunt  wrote:
 
 It sounds like you are trying to answer two questions:
 
 1. How do you extract meaning from account name strings in incoming
 migration data, such that you can pick the appropriate GnuCash account
>> type?
>>> 
>>> Ummm, sort of. Yes, I am asking myself that because I have to make
>> decisions.
>>> But I was really providing the scenarios to help shape the reader's
>> thinking
>>> about the implications.
>>> 
>>> Yes, the question I’m asking is in the subject line. I should have
>> included it
>>> more in the body. I did ask specifically in the body though if there was
>> "any
>>> negative implications of assigning too general of an account type to an
>>> account?” I’m inclined to err on the side of general and tell the user
>> they
>>> need to review all of them and edit appropriately based on GnuCash’s
>>> documentation. But, it is still a good challenge to get them as close to
>> right
>>> as possible.
>>> 
>>> The decisions I’m making are naturally heavily influenced by my personal
>>> account and categories structure in Quicken along with my understanding
>> about
>>> how GnuCash structures accounts and defines types. There are undoubtedly
>>> members of this mailing list who migrated data from some other app to
>> GnuCash.
>>> They made decisions about account types, perhaps after creating their
>> chart of
>>> accounts, and they may have found adjustments were necessary because
>> something
>>> didn’t work as expected. I believe hearing that would be helpful to me
>> and
>>> others.
>>> 
 
 2. What are the GnuCash account types, and what are their meanings (or,
 purposes, or semantics)?
 
 I think question 1 is up to you. It is not a GnuCash question.
 
 The place to start for question 2 is the GnuCash /Help/ documentation,
>> 5.1.
 *Types of GnuCash Accounts*[1]. You might find it helpful to consult
>> the
 notes about what kinds of child account type each parent account type
 accepts.  Missing from this page is the Trading Account type.
 
>>> 
>>> I had read
>>> 
>> https://code.gnucash.org/docs/MAINT/group__Account.html#ga398c5d6f7a5127db7b81789e05262908
>>> <
>>> 
>> https://code.gnucash.org/docs/MAINT/group__Account.html#ga398c5d6f7a5127db7b81789e05262908
 but will make sure to go back and read section 5.1. I appreciate that
>> you’ve
>>> highlighted that there can be child-parent mismatches as that is a real
>>> implication. I realize that if a user migrating to GnuCash using the
>> tool I’m
>>> developing had a Credit Card under an Asset account, they could
>> potentially
>>> have a problem. I’m using PieCash for my GnuCash writes, and I *think* it
>>> checks the parent-child rules, but I might want to test that.
>>> 
>>> 
 Trading accounts 

Re: [GNC] Interest Income

[Alan A Holmes]

Hi Abe,

One thing that helped me to understand using GnuCash when I first started was 
the naming of the columns. If you unset Edit->Preferences->Accounts->Label->Use 
formal accounting labels you then get column headings such as Receive and Spend 
rather than Debit and Credit. Much easier to get my head around when I first 
started, more real world than accounting. In fact I've left it unset even after 
3-4 years of using GnuCash, even though I know, more or less, what I'm doing 
now.



Alan A Holmes

-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  
On Behalf Of Abe Sternberg
Sent: 20 February 2023 20:17
To: Gyle McCollam ; gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Interest Income

I understand that part.  If I buy clothes, I debit (-) the checking account and 
credit the clothes (+) account.  It is when things are not obvious or go to 
something like an equity account that I am totally at sea.

Thanks again,

Abe

On 2/20/2023 15:04, Gyle McCollam wrote:
> Just think of double entry as when you are spending, the money comes 
> from some account and is spent on something (expense account).  When 
> you are receiving money, it comes from somewhere Income, donation, 
> etc. and gets put into some asset account, savings, building fund, 
> cash on hand.  There are two items for every expanse or receipt.
>
> Thank You,
>
> *Gyle McCollam*
>
> Gyle McCollam
>
> gmccol...@live.com email
>
> --
> --
> *From:* Abe Sternberg 
> *Sent:* Monday, February 20, 2023 2:53 PM
> *To:* Gyle McCollam ; gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [GNC] Interest Income
> That sounds too simple - I'll try it.  I really get confused with this 
> double-entry business, but these records are for a non-profit and I 
> have to be sure they are kept correctly.
>
> Regards,
> Abe
>
> On 2/20/2023 14:31, Gyle McCollam wrote:
>> Just a thought, if you haven't set up your savings account before and 
>> you are setting up the initial balance as the transaction you are 
>> referring to you would debit the savings account and credit an equity 
>> account.  Most likely a beginning balances account.
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> *Gyle McCollam*
>>
>> Gyle McCollam
>>
>> gmccol...@live.com email
>>
>> -
>> ---
>> *From:* gnucash-user
>> 
>>  on behalf 
>> of Abe Sternberg  
>> 
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 20, 2023 12:46 PM
>> *To:* gnucash-user@gnucash.org  
>>  
>> *Subject:* [GNC] Interest Income
>> I have just started using Gnucash for my savings account, not much 
>> money involved here, and wanted to enter my first transaction.  Not 
>> being good at double-entry bookkeeping, I have no idea what are the 
>> two off-setting accounts.  I imagine that I use income, but what is the 
>> other account?
>>
>> Thanks for your help to a dumb guy.
>>
>> Abe
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