Re: [GNC] Data Entry Overload - Create Bill + Post Bill + Pay Bill vs just Pay Bill?

[Greg Feneis]

I don't have this problem, but perhaps Fran might be interested.  They're
the OP on this thread.

Kind regards,

Greg Feneis 




On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 9:15 AM elvis  wrote:

> Hello Greg,
>
> I encountered this exact same problem.
>
>
> The way bills are entered just does not scale for someone doing more
> than home entry, or doing it because they love it. 50 mouse clicks to
> record buying a Mars bar just isn't viable if you have more than a Mars
> bar a week.
>
>
> I have a small program that takes downloaded transactions from the bank,
> munges the descriptions so the qif importer recognises the accounts and
> also adds gst. Saves hours and hours a month.
>
>
>
>
> On 10/10/20 9:37 pm, Greg Feneis wrote:
> > Yes, but keep in mind that I don't purchase anything for resale.
> >
> > Kind regards, Greg Feneis
> > (Pixel 3)
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 16:17 Fran_3  wrote:
> >
> >> So Greg, you don't post any Bills to Accounts Payable? Electric &
> Utilityered
> >> bills. Rent or whatever?
> >>
> >> You just post the payments... is that what you are saying?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 12:15:25 PM EDT, Greg Feneis <
> >> mfen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't use this process at all. Everything my business buys how on a
> >> credit card. 路
> >>
> >> Kind regards, Greg Feneis
> >> (Pixel 3)
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 08:41 Fran_3 via gnucash-user <
> >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Posting Bills allows you to keep track of AP and provides data to the
> >>> Bills Due Reminder...
> >>> However some routine expenses may just get paid without going through
> the
> >>> steps of creating and posting and paying a bill.
> >>> For a small venture posting bills can require a lot of keyboard time...
> >>> even duplicating a bill requires a number of steps, data entry, and
> >> clicks
> >>> and can eat up time if you have a bunch of them to do...
> >>> Example, we have a couple of vendor from which we get 50+ to 100+
> charges
> >>> per year. They each are on auto pay and are mostly for the same amount
> >> per
> >>> charge... but each charge is for a different thing... so descriptions,
> >> due
> >>> dates, etc are different for each item.
> >>> (You can think of these as if they were an annual listing or service
> >>> fee... one for each item.)
> >>> I got reminded of this recently when we made an effort to enter/create
> >>> Bills for the 100+ charges that were going to occur for Vendor-A over
> the
> >>> next 12 months... again, the big corporate vendor does not supply a
> >> monthly
> >>> Bill listing all charges for that month... the item fee comes up and
> gets
> >>> auto paid... so 100+ transactions per year for that one vendor.
> >>>
> >>> It is a lot less work to just enter each payment into the system as
> >>> opposed to first creating a bill then posting a bill and then paying
> the
> >>> bill.
> >>> How do you all choose which things to create Bills for and which things
> >>> just Pay?
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> gnucash-user mailing list
> >>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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> >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] Data Entry Overload - Create Bill + Post Bill + Pay Bill vs just Pay Bill?

[Adrien Monteleone]

The purpose of the Business Features is for accruals in order to adhere 
to the "Matching Principle" of accounting.


If you go to the local convenience store every afternoon and buy a candy 
bar, you'd just record that as a regular transaction. (and benefit from 
using Duplicate Transaction or otherwise taking advantage of AutoFill) 
You might even use a Scheduled Transaction for something you are pretty 
sure you are going to regularly need to enter.


It would be a rare and odd case indeed to be billed 'on account' by a 
vendor on a very short time frame (less than one month or weekly) for 
each, or nearly each, individual line item.


Regards,
Adrien

On 10/13/20 6:24 AM, elvis wrote:

Hello Greg,

I encountered this exact same problem.


The way bills are entered just does not scale for someone doing more 
than home entry, or doing it because they love it. 50 mouse clicks to 
record buying a Mars bar just isn't viable if you have more than a Mars 
bar a week.



I have a small program that takes downloaded transactions from the bank, 
munges the descriptions so the qif importer recognises the accounts and 
also adds gst. Saves hours and hours a month.


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Re: [GNC] Data Entry Overload - Create Bill + Post Bill + Pay Bill vs just Pay Bill?

[elvis]

Hello Greg,

I encountered this exact same problem.


The way bills are entered just does not scale for someone doing more 
than home entry, or doing it because they love it. 50 mouse clicks to 
record buying a Mars bar just isn't viable if you have more than a Mars 
bar a week.



I have a small program that takes downloaded transactions from the bank, 
munges the descriptions so the qif importer recognises the accounts and 
also adds gst. Saves hours and hours a month.





On 10/10/20 9:37 pm, Greg Feneis wrote:

Yes, but keep in mind that I don't purchase anything for resale.

Kind regards, Greg Feneis
(Pixel 3)


On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 16:17 Fran_3  wrote:


So Greg, you don't post any Bills to Accounts Payable? Electric & Utilityered
bills. Rent or whatever?

You just post the payments... is that what you are saying?

Thanks


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 12:15:25 PM EDT, Greg Feneis <
mfen...@gmail.com> wrote:


I don't use this process at all. Everything my business buys how on a
credit card. 路

Kind regards, Greg Feneis
(Pixel 3)


On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 08:41 Fran_3 via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
wrote:


Posting Bills allows you to keep track of AP and provides data to the
Bills Due Reminder...
However some routine expenses may just get paid without going through the
steps of creating and posting and paying a bill.
For a small venture posting bills can require a lot of keyboard time...
even duplicating a bill requires a number of steps, data entry, and

clicks

and can eat up time if you have a bunch of them to do...
Example, we have a couple of vendor from which we get 50+ to 100+ charges
per year. They each are on auto pay and are mostly for the same amount

per

charge... but each charge is for a different thing... so descriptions,

due

dates, etc are different for each item.
(You can think of these as if they were an annual listing or service
fee... one for each item.)
I got reminded of this recently when we made an effort to enter/create
Bills for the 100+ charges that were going to occur for Vendor-A over the
next 12 months... again, the big corporate vendor does not supply a

monthly

Bill listing all charges for that month... the item fee comes up and gets
auto paid... so 100+ transactions per year for that one vendor.

It is a lot less work to just enter each payment into the system as
opposed to first creating a bill then posting a bill and then paying the
bill.
How do you all choose which things to create Bills for and which things
just Pay?
Thanks.



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Re: [GNC] Data Entry Overload - Create Bill + Post Bill + Pay Bill vs just Pay Bill?

[Greg Feneis]

Yes, but keep in mind that I don't purchase anything for resale.

Kind regards, Greg Feneis
(Pixel 3)


On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 16:17 Fran_3  wrote:

> So Greg, you don't post any Bills to Accounts Payable? Electric & Utility
> bills. Rent or whatever?
>
> You just post the payments... is that what you are saying?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 12:15:25 PM EDT, Greg Feneis <
> mfen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I don't use this process at all. Everything my business buys how on a
> credit card. 路
>
> Kind regards, Greg Feneis
> (Pixel 3)
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 08:41 Fran_3 via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Posting Bills allows you to keep track of AP and provides data to the
> > Bills Due Reminder...
> > However some routine expenses may just get paid without going through the
> > steps of creating and posting and paying a bill.
> > For a small venture posting bills can require a lot of keyboard time...
> > even duplicating a bill requires a number of steps, data entry, and
> clicks
> > and can eat up time if you have a bunch of them to do...
> > Example, we have a couple of vendor from which we get 50+ to 100+ charges
> > per year. They each are on auto pay and are mostly for the same amount
> per
> > charge... but each charge is for a different thing... so descriptions,
> due
> > dates, etc are different for each item.
> > (You can think of these as if they were an annual listing or service
> > fee... one for each item.)
> > I got reminded of this recently when we made an effort to enter/create
> > Bills for the 100+ charges that were going to occur for Vendor-A over the
> > next 12 months... again, the big corporate vendor does not supply a
> monthly
> > Bill listing all charges for that month... the item fee comes up and gets
> > auto paid... so 100+ transactions per year for that one vendor.
> >
> > It is a lot less work to just enter each payment into the system as
> > opposed to first creating a bill then posting a bill and then paying the
> > bill.
> > How do you all choose which things to create Bills for and which things
> > just Pay?
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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> >
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Re: [GNC] Data Entry Overload - Create Bill + Post Bill + Pay Bill vs just Pay Bill?

[Geert Janssens]

Op zaterdag 10 oktober 2020 05:07:38 CEST schreef Christopher Lam:
> I'd think that invoices are much more useful than bills. Because I send
> invoices and want to track being paid; as a customer I send (usually future
> dated) payments on time (or dispute them) and don't need to remind myself.

Payment tracking is only one aspect of the business features. Another aspect 
(which I 
have used it for in the past) is automatic tax (VAT) handling. By defining VAT 
rules for 
vendors, I only had to enter the invoice lines and VAT would be calculated 
automatically. If I had to enter each vendor transaction without the business 
features 
I needed to make split transactions for each, detailing all tax bits in 
separate splits 
manually. That was at least as tedious in my scenario. Of course if you are not 
required to do VAT, this bit is less important.

So it really depends on your specific use case.

Regards,

Geert
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Re: [GNC] Data Entry Overload - Create Bill + Post Bill + Pay Bill vs just Pay Bill?

[Christopher Lam]

I'd think that invoices are much more useful than bills. Because I send
invoices and want to track being paid; as a customer I send (usually future
dated) payments on time (or dispute them) and don't need to remind myself.

On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 7:20 am Fran_3 via gnucash-user, <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

>  So Greg, you don't post any Bills to Accounts Payable? Electric & Utility
> bills. Rent or whatever?
> You just post the payments... is that what you are saying?
> Thanks
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 12:15:25 PM EDT, Greg Feneis <
> mfen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  I don't use this process at all. Everything my business buys how on a
> credit card. 路
>
> Kind regards, Greg Feneis
> (Pixel 3)
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 08:41 Fran_3 via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Posting Bills allows you to keep track of AP and provides data to the
> > Bills Due Reminder...
> > However some routine expenses may just get paid without going through the
> > steps of creating and posting and paying a bill.
> > For a small venture posting bills can require a lot of keyboard time...
> > even duplicating a bill requires a number of steps, data entry, and
> clicks
> > and can eat up time if you have a bunch of them to do...
> > Example, we have a couple of vendor from which we get 50+ to 100+ charges
> > per year. They each are on auto pay and are mostly for the same amount
> per
> > charge... but each charge is for a different thing... so descriptions,
> due
> > dates, etc are different for each item.
> > (You can think of these as if they were an annual listing or service
> > fee... one for each item.)
> > I got reminded of this recently when we made an effort to enter/create
> > Bills for the 100+ charges that were going to occur for Vendor-A over the
> > next 12 months... again, the big corporate vendor does not supply a
> monthly
> > Bill listing all charges for that month... the item fee comes up and gets
> > auto paid... so 100+ transactions per year for that one vendor.
> >
> > It is a lot less work to just enter each payment into the system as
> > opposed to first creating a bill then posting a bill and then paying the
> > bill.
> > How do you all choose which things to create Bills for and which things
> > just Pay?
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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Re: [GNC] Data Entry Overload - Create Bill + Post Bill + Pay Bill vs just Pay Bill?

[Fran_3 via gnucash-user]

 So Greg, you don't post any Bills to Accounts Payable? Electric & Utility 
bills. Rent or whatever?
You just post the payments... is that what you are saying?
Thanks

On Friday, October 9, 2020, 12:15:25 PM EDT, Greg Feneis 
 wrote:  
 
 I don't use this process at all. Everything my business buys how on a
credit card. 路

Kind regards, Greg Feneis
(Pixel 3)


On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 08:41 Fran_3 via gnucash-user 
wrote:

> Posting Bills allows you to keep track of AP and provides data to the
> Bills Due Reminder...
> However some routine expenses may just get paid without going through the
> steps of creating and posting and paying a bill.
> For a small venture posting bills can require a lot of keyboard time...
> even duplicating a bill requires a number of steps, data entry, and clicks
> and can eat up time if you have a bunch of them to do...
> Example, we have a couple of vendor from which we get 50+ to 100+ charges
> per year. They each are on auto pay and are mostly for the same amount per
> charge... but each charge is for a different thing... so descriptions, due
> dates, etc are different for each item.
> (You can think of these as if they were an annual listing or service
> fee... one for each item.)
> I got reminded of this recently when we made an effort to enter/create
> Bills for the 100+ charges that were going to occur for Vendor-A over the
> next 12 months... again, the big corporate vendor does not supply a monthly
> Bill listing all charges for that month... the item fee comes up and gets
> auto paid... so 100+ transactions per year for that one vendor.
>
> It is a lot less work to just enter each payment into the system as
> opposed to first creating a bill then posting a bill and then paying the
> bill.
> How do you all choose which things to create Bills for and which things
> just Pay?
> Thanks.
>
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Data Entry Overload - Create Bill + Post Bill + Pay Bill vs just Pay Bill?

[Adrien Monteleone]

My rule is to create bills for everything which is a receivable for the 
vendor. (not an immediate sale)


So if I get an invoice from them, and have to issue payment, I create 
the bill.


In this case, while it seems you're dealing with an immediate sale, if 
the payment fails for some reason, you still have to issue payment 
manually. By 'immediate sale' I mean those cases where I personally make 
the payment manually on the spot. (such as online purchases, or in 
person purchases)


I probably would also create bills for such items like you describe 
simply to afford myself the use of Vendor Reports and Payables tracking, 
especially if not all of their invoices to me fall under this use case. 
But I understand that might not work for everyone.


Do you happen to know what those 50-100 line items are in advance? (are 
they recurring each year, or are they truly guaranteed charges but 
one-offs as to the details?)


Duplication is how I enter about 99% of my vendor bills already. But if 
that gets tedious, and you know the data in advance, create a 
spreadsheet with that invoice data according to the format specified in 
the Help/Guide, then import them all at once. (some will of course have 
future dates)


As they get auto-drafted, enter or import the payment transaction and 
apply as payment.


When you run reports, instead of using the default 'end of accounting 
period' use 'today' as your end date. That way, the future posted 
invoices won't affect the report.


But this does give you the benefit of including them to see a projection 
of future due expenses if you like.


Another option is to forego the Business Features for that Vendor (or 
for those Bills) and use Scheduled Transactions. You will still want to 
review and edit the transaction with the line-item detail in a split 
memo, but otherwise, you will cut down on clicks and data entry. At 
least do an SX for the expenses (Bills) but you could do one for the 
payment as well, and upon review before committing, check your bank 
online to verify successful payment, then mark the 'r' column as 'c' for 
that split.


Hope that helps.

Regards,
Adrien

On 10/9/20 10:38 AM, Fran_3 via gnucash-user wrote:

Posting Bills allows you to keep track of AP and provides data to the Bills Due 
Reminder...
However some routine expenses may just get paid without going through the steps 
of creating and posting and paying a bill.
For a small venture posting bills can require a lot of keyboard time... even 
duplicating a bill requires a number of steps, data entry, and clicks and can 
eat up time if you have a bunch of them to do...
Example, we have a couple of vendor from which we get 50+ to 100+ charges per 
year. They each are on auto pay and are mostly for the same amount per 
charge... but each charge is for a different thing... so descriptions, due 
dates, etc are different for each item.
(You can think of these as if they were an annual listing or service fee... one 
for each item.)
I got reminded of this recently when we made an effort to enter/create Bills 
for the 100+ charges that were going to occur for Vendor-A over the next 12 
months... again, the big corporate vendor does not supply a monthly Bill 
listing all charges for that month... the item fee comes up and gets auto 
paid... so 100+ transactions per year for that one vendor.

It is a lot less work to just enter each payment into the system as opposed to 
first creating a bill then posting a bill and then paying the bill.
How do you all choose which things to create Bills for and which things just 
Pay?
Thanks.


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Re: [GNC] Data Entry Overload - Create Bill + Post Bill + Pay Bill vs just Pay Bill?

[Greg Feneis]

I don't use this process at all. Everything my business buys how on a
credit card. 路

Kind regards, Greg Feneis
(Pixel 3)


On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 08:41 Fran_3 via gnucash-user 
wrote:

> Posting Bills allows you to keep track of AP and provides data to the
> Bills Due Reminder...
> However some routine expenses may just get paid without going through the
> steps of creating and posting and paying a bill.
> For a small venture posting bills can require a lot of keyboard time...
> even duplicating a bill requires a number of steps, data entry, and clicks
> and can eat up time if you have a bunch of them to do...
> Example, we have a couple of vendor from which we get 50+ to 100+ charges
> per year. They each are on auto pay and are mostly for the same amount per
> charge... but each charge is for a different thing... so descriptions, due
> dates, etc are different for each item.
> (You can think of these as if they were an annual listing or service
> fee... one for each item.)
> I got reminded of this recently when we made an effort to enter/create
> Bills for the 100+ charges that were going to occur for Vendor-A over the
> next 12 months... again, the big corporate vendor does not supply a monthly
> Bill listing all charges for that month... the item fee comes up and gets
> auto paid... so 100+ transactions per year for that one vendor.
>
> It is a lot less work to just enter each payment into the system as
> opposed to first creating a bill then posting a bill and then paying the
> bill.
> How do you all choose which things to create Bills for and which things
> just Pay?
> Thanks.
>
>
>
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[GNC] Data Entry Overload - Create Bill + Post Bill + Pay Bill vs just Pay Bill?

[Fran_3 via gnucash-user]

Posting Bills allows you to keep track of AP and provides data to the Bills Due 
Reminder...
However some routine expenses may just get paid without going through the steps 
of creating and posting and paying a bill.
For a small venture posting bills can require a lot of keyboard time... even 
duplicating a bill requires a number of steps, data entry, and clicks and can 
eat up time if you have a bunch of them to do...
Example, we have a couple of vendor from which we get 50+ to 100+ charges per 
year. They each are on auto pay and are mostly for the same amount per 
charge... but each charge is for a different thing... so descriptions, due 
dates, etc are different for each item.
(You can think of these as if they were an annual listing or service fee... one 
for each item.)
I got reminded of this recently when we made an effort to enter/create Bills 
for the 100+ charges that were going to occur for Vendor-A over the next 12 
months... again, the big corporate vendor does not supply a monthly Bill 
listing all charges for that month... the item fee comes up and gets auto 
paid... so 100+ transactions per year for that one vendor.

It is a lot less work to just enter each payment into the system as opposed to 
first creating a bill then posting a bill and then paying the bill.
How do you all choose which things to create Bills for and which things just 
Pay?
Thanks.



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