Re: [GNC] Editing, moving customer lists, possible child lists

[David Cousens]

Thanks Maf,

I didn't make it clear that I was referring to the XML backend and that
database backends would require different strategies. David T's point is
also taken and noted.  Most of Johnathon's questions dealt with some issues
which were out of the scope of GnuCash's capabilities and were more about
the capacity to integrate with non accounting tasks. 

David



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Re: [GNC] Editing, moving customer lists, possible child lists

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Indeed. Having just worked through the wiki FAQ language on backups, I would 
prefer that list advice point to the relevant wiki pages whenever possible, in 
this case https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Backup 
.

I recommend this approach because such issues in GnuCash often have more 
complexity than can be conveyed in an email. This is an unfortunate result of 
GnuCash being offered on so many platforms with so many different options and 
use cases.

David T.

> On Oct 22, 2018, at 11:35 AM, Maf. King  wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, 21 October 2018 23:47:33 BST David Cousens wrote:
> 
>> 
>> GnuCash automatically produces backupsin the directory in which you store
>> the books, i.e. on the computer you have GnuCash running on. If that
>> computer fails, you have a serious problem. In addition you would want to
>> backup to either another computer, a Network storage device and/or
>> preferrably to an offsite location as well.  If your computer has an
>> adequate backup system in place it may already cover these needs.
>> 
> 
> Hi, just a point of clarification:
> 
> that paragraph should start something like:  "If you are using the XML file 
> to 
> store your data, then GnuCash automatically produces backups"
> 
> AIUI, the sqlite3 file is not automatically copied to a backup.
> 
> Maf.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [GNC] Editing, moving customer lists, possible child lists

[Maf. King]

On Sunday, 21 October 2018 23:47:33 BST David Cousens wrote:

> 
> GnuCash automatically produces backupsin the directory in which you store
> the books, i.e. on the computer you have GnuCash running on. If that
> computer fails, you have a serious problem. In addition you would want to
> backup to either another computer, a Network storage device and/or
> preferrably to an offsite location as well.  If your computer has an
> adequate backup system in place it may already cover these needs.
> 

Hi, just a point of clarification:

that paragraph should start something like:  "If you are using the XML file to 
store your data, then GnuCash automatically produces backups"

AIUI, the sqlite3 file is not automatically copied to a backup.

Maf.



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Re: [GNC] Editing, moving customer lists, possible child lists

[Jonathan Ames]

Thanks, David. Appreciate your contextual placement of Gnucash in the
database/SQL environment. Helps focus my thoughts, notions, etc.

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 11:07 PM David Cousens 
wrote:

> Johnathon,
>
> It is possible to host the data files but not the application on a cloud
> data storage. I use a dropbox so I can edit my files either at home, on my
> laptop when I am mobile or away etc.  I have also used Google Drive for the
> same purpose In that case it is synchronised from the local machine I am
> editing on to the dropbox server and that is not instantaneous. GnuCash's
> customer data storage is not a general client information system and stores
> little more than the name, some contact details and a billing and shipping
> address. It is not as comprehensive as an ERP system for example.
>
> One reason some people use the database backends for GnuCash is so they can
> access the GnuCash data from other applications using SQL queries. GnuCash
> also has bindings to a Python API which can be used to access the data. It
> is strictly an accounting system by design and as it is used in many
> countries there tends to be an emphasis on generic accounting features
> rather than being customized to a particular jurisdiction within the
> program. Any specific customization would have to be external.
>
> I would be inclined to keep clinical patient data in a separate system
> designed for that function e.g.
> https://www.openclinica.com/community-edition-open-source-edc/,
> https://openmrs.org/ and try to build or have someone develop a linking
> system to the accounting functionality. Other possible options are listed
> in
> https://blog.capterra.com/top-7-free-open-source-emr-software-products/.
> If
> they are database based it will depend largely on how much information is
> available on the database structure and how to access it as to how
> difficult
> that may be to achieve. This unfortunately is what you pay for in
> commercial
> products although they don't always deliver.
>
> The development and documentation teams for GnuCash are totally totally
> volunteer. New features are implemented, but usually after a fair bit of
> discussion and generally rely on one of the team members being interested
> in
> the feature or a significant demand from the user base. The main
> development
> effort is focussed on bug fixes and modernization of the code to stay up
> with libraries GnuCash is dependent upon.
>
> The critical thing with flexible access to data is database design to
> increase the ways in which data can be accessed. It is a highly specialized
> field in and of itself to optimally design a database for such a function.
> I
> don't know enough about the systems I referenced above to know whether thay
> are capable of meeting your needs.
>
> You will probably want to seriously look at the costs of customization of
> software. It can be quite expensive and difficult depending on how good the
> developer documentation is and the capabilities of any developer you would
> hire.
>
> Can't really comment on database courses. There is plenty of online
> material. I haven't had any experience with FileMaker as a relational dBMS.
> MySQL, PostGRES, SQLite3 are largely ecosystem (Windows, MacOS)
> independent
>  and available for most major OS's around however Access and Filemaker may
> tie you to either the Windows or MacOS environments respectively. These
> questions are really out of scope for the GnuCash forum however.
> StackExchange and Tecmint may be more useful for more general info  (among
> many others)
>
> David
>
>
>
>
> -
> David Cousens
> --
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-- 
Jonathan Ames, PhD
Clinical Psychologist
415 N. Tioga Street #205
Ithaca NY 14850
607-227-4792
jnthn.a...@gmail.com
www.whatnowconnect.com

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Re: [GNC] Editing, moving customer lists, possible child lists

[David Cousens]

Johnathon,

It is possible to host the data files but not the application on a cloud
data storage. I use a dropbox so I can edit my files either at home, on my
laptop when I am mobile or away etc.  I have also used Google Drive for the
same purpose In that case it is synchronised from the local machine I am
editing on to the dropbox server and that is not instantaneous. GnuCash's
customer data storage is not a general client information system and stores
little more than the name, some contact details and a billing and shipping
address. It is not as comprehensive as an ERP system for example. 

One reason some people use the database backends for GnuCash is so they can
access the GnuCash data from other applications using SQL queries. GnuCash
also has bindings to a Python API which can be used to access the data. It
is strictly an accounting system by design and as it is used in many
countries there tends to be an emphasis on generic accounting features
rather than being customized to a particular jurisdiction within the
program. Any specific customization would have to be external. 

I would be inclined to keep clinical patient data in a separate system
designed for that function e.g.
https://www.openclinica.com/community-edition-open-source-edc/, 
https://openmrs.org/ and try to build or have someone develop a linking
system to the accounting functionality. Other possible options are listed in
https://blog.capterra.com/top-7-free-open-source-emr-software-products/.  If
they are database based it will depend largely on how much information is
available on the database structure and how to access it as to how difficult
that may be to achieve. This unfortunately is what you pay for in commercial
products although they don't always deliver.

The development and documentation teams for GnuCash are totally totally
volunteer. New features are implemented, but usually after a fair bit of
discussion and generally rely on one of the team members being interested in
the feature or a significant demand from the user base. The main development
effort is focussed on bug fixes and modernization of the code to stay up
with libraries GnuCash is dependent upon.

The critical thing with flexible access to data is database design to
increase the ways in which data can be accessed. It is a highly specialized
field in and of itself to optimally design a database for such a function. I
don't know enough about the systems I referenced above to know whether thay
are capable of meeting your needs.  

You will probably want to seriously look at the costs of customization of
software. It can be quite expensive and difficult depending on how good the
developer documentation is and the capabilities of any developer you would
hire.

Can't really comment on database courses. There is plenty of online
material. I haven't had any experience with FileMaker as a relational dBMS.
MySQL, PostGRES, SQLite3 are largely ecosystem (Windows, MacOS) independent 
 and available for most major OS's around however Access and Filemaker may
tie you to either the Windows or MacOS environments respectively. These
questions are really out of scope for the GnuCash forum however.
StackExchange and Tecmint may be more useful for more general info  (among
many others)

David




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Re: [GNC] Editing, moving customer lists, possible child lists

[Jonathan Ames]

David,

Thanks for your informative overview. It raises the question of whether
Gnucash can be cloud and/or server-hosted, w/o adding glitch potential.
Also, whether a Gnucash client/customer file can be nested within a
database (e.g., Filemaker or Access-originated) perhaps as a table, which
can contribute to queries originating in the host DB. For example,
timeframes/costs for diagnostic categories -- when does meaningful change
occur?

Obviously, I'm in over my head; am not satisfied with current EMR apps --
basically, cannot afford them, and cannot retrieve meaningful data re, say,
higher-functioning autism. Given that within our lifetimes kids will
probably all be required to have 3-letter names, I want as much control
over clinical data as my 72-year-old mind can handle.

So another question: where does database 101 now reside?

Thanks again,

Jonathan Ames, PhD
Clinical Psychologist
415 N. Tioga Street
Ithaca NY 14850
607-319-5118 - Office
607-227-4792 - Cell
jnthn.a...@gmail.com
www.whatnowconnect.com


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to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and
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sole use of the intended individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use,
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On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 6:49 PM David Cousens 
wrote:

> Jonathon,
>
> The customer information is separate from any account information. It is
> not
> generally necessary to have an account for each customer that you have as
> the customer information can be linked to a specific transaction  to an
> account. An account in Gnucash is a register which records the movement of
> funds. They may be associated with actual bank accounts for example or also
> with categories of information that you require either for business
> management and/or reporting purposes.
>
> 1. Menu->Business->Customer Overview should give you a liost of all
> customers which can be sorted by any of the column including the customer
> name. ( it is set as a company name, but you would use th customers name).
>
> 2. My understanding of the business account  structure is that Accounts
> Receivable and Accounts Payable only have a single account for each
> currency
> you use and cannot have sub-accounts. To meet your requirment, you would
> likely have to raise two invoices for each transaction with a customer, one
> for their personal billing and a second for billing their insurance. This
> would probably require you to have two customer listing associated with
> each
> physical customer name, e.g.
> Davy Jones personal information
> Davy Jones Insurance information  (you could use the insurance company
> details as the billing address in this case).
> It will be fairly difficult to get rate information to come up
> automatically
> in GnuCash.
>
> To use GnuCash as it is intended you shouldn't have to have any detailed
> experience as a developer. It is useful to have some computing skills if
> you
> wish to customize it more to your specific needs. Apart from the initial
> account heirarchy setup this would mainly involve customizing reports to
> meet your needs. This can involve programming in Scheme ( A LISP language
> implementation) and using CSS stylesheets to style the reports.
>
> Using the database backends will require some expertise in database
> management, particularly for making backups replicating databases and
> fixing
> things when there are problems with a database. Sqlite3 is the easiest
> option for users with limited database experience. GnuCash is not a full
> database product in that it doesn't allow simultaneous access by multiple
> users which is one major reason people generally want database
> applications.
>
> GnuCash automatically produces backupsin the directory in which you store
> the books, i.e. on the computer you have GnuCash running on. If that
> computer fails, you have a serious problem. In addition you would want to
> backup to either another computer, a Network storage device and/or
> preferrably to an offsite location as well.  If your computer has an
> adequate backup system in place it may already cover these needs.
>
> David Cousens
> Gnuca
>
>
>
> -
> David Cousens
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble 

Re: [GNC] Editing, moving customer lists, possible child lists

[David Cousens]

Jonathon,

The customer information is separate from any account information. It is not
generally necessary to have an account for each customer that you have as
the customer information can be linked to a specific transaction  to an
account. An account in Gnucash is a register which records the movement of
funds. They may be associated with actual bank accounts for example or also
with categories of information that you require either for business
management and/or reporting purposes.

1. Menu->Business->Customer Overview should give you a liost of all
customers which can be sorted by any of the column including the customer
name. ( it is set as a company name, but you would use th customers name).

2. My understanding of the business account  structure is that Accounts
Receivable and Accounts Payable only have a single account for each currency
you use and cannot have sub-accounts. To meet your requirment, you would
likely have to raise two invoices for each transaction with a customer, one
for their personal billing and a second for billing their insurance. This
would probably require you to have two customer listing associated with each
physical customer name, e.g. 
Davy Jones personal information
Davy Jones Insurance information  (you could use the insurance company
details as the billing address in this case).
It will be fairly difficult to get rate information to come up automatically
in GnuCash.

To use GnuCash as it is intended you shouldn't have to have any detailed
experience as a developer. It is useful to have some computing skills if you
wish to customize it more to your specific needs. Apart from the initial
account heirarchy setup this would mainly involve customizing reports to
meet your needs. This can involve programming in Scheme ( A LISP language
implementation) and using CSS stylesheets to style the reports.

Using the database backends will require some expertise in database
management, particularly for making backups replicating databases and fixing
things when there are problems with a database. Sqlite3 is the easiest
option for users with limited database experience. GnuCash is not a full
database product in that it doesn't allow simultaneous access by multiple
users which is one major reason people generally want database applications.

GnuCash automatically produces backupsin the directory in which you store
the books, i.e. on the computer you have GnuCash running on. If that
computer fails, you have a serious problem. In addition you would want to
backup to either another computer, a Network storage device and/or
preferrably to an offsite location as well.  If your computer has an
adequate backup system in place it may already cover these needs.

David Cousens
Gnuca



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[GNC] Editing, moving customer lists, possible child lists

[Jonathan Ames]

Hello,

As a solo psychotherapist, wondering relation between "Customers" and
"Accounts" (in QB, customers *are* accounts). Each client I see has their
own billing account, and (mostly) their insurance-related account. Aging is
different: insurers avoid payments frequently until dunned repeatedly.

Some issues with "Customer" listings: 1: Cannot move order of customers, as
you would in Excel, maintaining alphabetical or numeric sequence. 2:
wondering if a general listing can be established as in "Accounts" with
Placeholder (e.g. Doe, John) and then Personal billing, Insurance billing
and perhaps a place for Notes. I suppose I'm asking for a Clinical Records
template -- can easily imaging my own, but hard to move or expand actual
listings. One cannot group insurance co's as customers; e.g., rates are
different for different plans.

Finally, being new to Gnucash: I'm on this list, and don't understand much
of what comes through (e.g. database aspects -- SQL choices, etc.). Are
most Gnucash users also developers/coders? How code-database literate must
a non-developer (e.g. a psychotherapist) become?

Thanks,

Jonathan Ames, PhD
Clinical Psychologist
415 N. Tioga Street
Ithaca NY 14850
607-319-5118 - Office
607-227-4792 - Cell
jnthn.a...@gmail.com
www.whatnowconnect.com




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