Re: [GNC] Question about transfers

[Brad]

It looks like using sub-accounts to track amounts designated for a
specific purpose going into and out of accounts will work great.
Thanks everyone.
Brad

On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 11:14 AM Brad  wrote:
>
> I like the idea of using sub-accounts.  I will test it out and report back.
> Thanks.
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 7:37 PM David H  wrote:
> >
> > Brad,
> >
> > If I were to do this I think I'd look at creating sub-accounts under the 
> > Transfer To account - i.e.
> >
> > Assets >> Current Assets >> Transfer To Account  >> Groceries
> > Assets >> Current Assets >> Transfer To Account  >> Utilities
> > Assets >> Current Assets >> Transfer To Account  >> etc
> >
> > This tells you how much you transferred to each and also includes the 
> > balance of the sub accounts in the Transfer To account.
> >
> > cheers David H.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 at 07:39, Brad  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >> I am new to GnuCash and to this list.  I am a long, long time Quicken
> >> user who has finally gotten fed up with Quicken and I am in the midst
> >> of converting to GnuCash.
> >>
> >> My question is regarding transfer of funds from one account to
> >> another.  I want to transfer funds from one account to another, but I
> >> also want to track the transfer amount against an expense account so I
> >> can keep track separately of how much I have transferred for different
> >> reasons.
> >>
> >> Anyone have any ideas?  I'm guessing it involves a split transaction
> >> of some sort, but I can't figure out what the pieces of the split look
> >> like.
> >> Thanks in advance for your help.
> >> Brad
> >> ___
> >> gnucash-user mailing list
> >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
> >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> >> -
> >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Question about transfers

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 4/22/2022 11:35 PM, john wrote:

Quicken isn't really an accounting app. Intuit's offering in that space is 
Quickbooks. That means that how you used Quicken isn't directly transferable to 
GnuCash. If being able to use a Free Software alternative to Quicken the same way you 
use Quicken is important to you then have a look at KMyMoney: https://kmymoney.org/ 


To accomplish what I think you're trying to do in "real" accounting requires 
two special accounts: An asset account to collect the money reserved for the payment and 
a liability account to accumulate the accrual. For your property tax example, suppose you 
owe 1200 every six month, but you want to record the expense and make a reservation 
monthly. You'll create two accounts: Assets:Current Assets:Provision for Property Tax and 
Liabliltues:Current Liabilities:Accrued Property Tax. Every month you'll create a 
transaction that looks something like:


I think perhaps the real issue is the different types of information.

ONE sort of information is the actual transactions.

But it is not the only sort of information. We also may need 
"prospective" information. I think here the specific question is along 
the lines of "at some future time will a bank account contain enough to 
pay for some expense. Here you are thinking about a a specific actual 
transfer, but it could also be a scheduled transfer (scheduled to take 
place before the check for the expense must be written; when THAT is 
scheduled to happen).


Look at the possibilities of the "cash flow" report.

Michael D Novack

PS:Understand, you are thinking of JUST this one future expense, but you 
want the bank account to contain enough for ANY future expense and 
although you have only one, you could have many.



___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Question about transfers

[Brad]

I like the idea of using sub-accounts.  I will test it out and report back.
Thanks.

On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 7:37 PM David H  wrote:
>
> Brad,
>
> If I were to do this I think I'd look at creating sub-accounts under the 
> Transfer To account - i.e.
>
> Assets >> Current Assets >> Transfer To Account  >> Groceries
> Assets >> Current Assets >> Transfer To Account  >> Utilities
> Assets >> Current Assets >> Transfer To Account  >> etc
>
> This tells you how much you transferred to each and also includes the balance 
> of the sub accounts in the Transfer To account.
>
> cheers David H.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 at 07:39, Brad  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I am new to GnuCash and to this list.  I am a long, long time Quicken
>> user who has finally gotten fed up with Quicken and I am in the midst
>> of converting to GnuCash.
>>
>> My question is regarding transfer of funds from one account to
>> another.  I want to transfer funds from one account to another, but I
>> also want to track the transfer amount against an expense account so I
>> can keep track separately of how much I have transferred for different
>> reasons.
>>
>> Anyone have any ideas?  I'm guessing it involves a split transaction
>> of some sort, but I can't figure out what the pieces of the split look
>> like.
>> Thanks in advance for your help.
>> Brad
>> ___
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>> -
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Question about transfers

[john]

Quicken isn't really an accounting app. Intuit's offering in that space is 
Quickbooks. That means that how you used Quicken isn't directly transferable to 
GnuCash. If being able to use a Free Software alternative to Quicken the same 
way you use Quicken is important to you then have a look at KMyMoney: 
https://kmymoney.org/ 

To accomplish what I think you're trying to do in "real" accounting requires 
two special accounts: An asset account to collect the money reserved for the 
payment and a liability account to accumulate the accrual. For your property 
tax example, suppose you owe 1200 every six month, but you want to record the 
expense and make a reservation monthly. You'll create two accounts: 
Assets:Current Assets:Provision for Property Tax and Liabliltues:Current 
Liabilities:Accrued Property Tax. Every month you'll create a transaction that 
looks something like:

5/1/2022 Accrued Property Tax
 Assets:Current Assets:Bank 
200.00
 Assets:Current 
Assets:Provision for Property Tax  200.00
 Expenses:Tax 
Expenses:Property Tax   200.00
 Liabilities:Current 
Liabilities:Accrued Property Tax  200.00

Then when you transfer the money to the Tax Collector:

6/1/2022 Pay Property Tax
Assets:Current 
Assets:Provision for Property Tax200.00
Liabilities:Current 
Liabilities:Accrued Property Tax   200.00

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Apr 22, 2022, at 3:24 PM, Brad  wrote:
> 
> Thank you for the quick response.  I do have some background in
> accounting and I have actually reviewed both the Tutorial and the full
> Help manual.  So far I am liking QnuCash alot.  It's just a matter of
> getting it to do some of the things I was doing in Quicken.
> 
> So, you are pretty close to understanding what I am trying to do.
> Yes, I am accumulating funds in a separate bank account for a large
> purchase (let's say property taxes paid once a year).  Then when it is
> time to pay the property tax I need to transfer the funds to my
> checking account so that I can write the check to the county.  At the
> same time I want to keep track of how much I have transferred for that
> purpose.  For example, maybe I transfer the funds in two transactions
> and I want a quick way to see if I have transferred enough.
> 
> In Quicken, my property tax budget was set to zero.  When I write the
> check for the property taxes, say for $1,000, that expense category
> goes to -$1,000.  Then when I transfer the funds, I can add them to
> that budget line, bringing the property tax expense category back to
> zero.  This way I have basically 3 entries, but I need an even number
> of entries to follow double-entry accounting rules.  Two entries to
> transfer the funds from one account to another, and then one to show
> the funds going to the property tax expense.  Oh, and I guess two more
> when I write the check to the county.
> Thanks.
> Brad
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 3:54 PM Stan Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 2022-04-22 14:37, Brad wrote:
>>> My question is regarding transfer of funds from one account to
>>> another.  I want to transfer funds from one account to another, but I
>>> also want to track the transfer amount against an expense account so I
>>> can keep track separately of how much I have transferred for different
>>> reasons.
>> 
>> Welcome to GnuCash, Brad! There's a bit of a learning curve coming from
>> Quicken or most other software, because in GnuCash you're doing
>> double-entry bookkeeping, and most of the details are visible to you.
>> Have you looked at the Tutorial and Concepts Guide (in the Help menu)
>> yet, to help you with that learning curve?
>> 
>> 
>> By "transfer funds from one account to another", do you mean transfer
>> from one bank account (or cash, money market, etc) to another? Is this a
>> matter of segregating funds that you expect to spend for a large future
>> expense, such as a vacation or a new furnace? I'm going to assume both
>> of those are yes, but if I've guessed wrong please follow up with more
>> details and perhaps an example of what you're trying to do.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> By the way, this isn't really a GnuCash problem, but an accounting
>> problem. Your chart of accounts should be structured to let you
>> aggregate information in the ways that you want. It would be no
>> different if you were keeping our books in a big ledger with pen and ink.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If you have some sort of bank account in which you're accumulating funds
>> against a large future expense, you'd probably want to name that account
>> in GnuCash as "Assets:Banks:Savings for 

Re: [GNC] Question about transfers

[David H]

Brad,

If I were to do this I think I'd look at creating sub-accounts under the
Transfer To account - i.e.

Assets >> Current Assets >> Transfer To Account  >> Groceries
Assets >> Current Assets >> Transfer To Account  >> Utilities
Assets >> Current Assets >> Transfer To Account  >> etc

This tells you how much you transferred to each and also includes the
balance of the sub accounts in the Transfer To account.

cheers David H.



On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 at 07:39, Brad  wrote:

> Hello,
> I am new to GnuCash and to this list.  I am a long, long time Quicken
> user who has finally gotten fed up with Quicken and I am in the midst
> of converting to GnuCash.
>
> My question is regarding transfer of funds from one account to
> another.  I want to transfer funds from one account to another, but I
> also want to track the transfer amount against an expense account so I
> can keep track separately of how much I have transferred for different
> reasons.
>
> Anyone have any ideas?  I'm guessing it involves a split transaction
> of some sort, but I can't figure out what the pieces of the split look
> like.
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> Brad
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Question about transfers

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 4/22/2022 6:24 PM, Brad wrote:

...but I need an even number
of entries to follow double-entry accounting rules.  Two entries to
transfer the funds from one account to another, and then one to show
the funds going to the property tax expense.  Oh, and I guess two more
when I write the check to the county.
Thanks.
Brad


Using "entry" may be causing confusion.. Let's work in reverse:

a) Writing check to county - That transaction has a debit of "real 
estate tax" (expense) and credit "checking account" (asset)


b) Transferring from savings to checking -- That transaction has a debit 
of "checking account" and a credit of "savings account"


Now let's discuss this other tracking you want to do, making sure you 
have enough transferred. WHERE did you have that amount recorded (in 
what account) and how did it get there? Do not confuse "budget" with 
"actual". The transactions described in "a" and "b" are actuals.


Michael D Novack


___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Question about transfers

[Brad]

Thank you for the quick response.  I do have some background in
accounting and I have actually reviewed both the Tutorial and the full
Help manual.  So far I am liking QnuCash alot.  It's just a matter of
getting it to do some of the things I was doing in Quicken.

So, you are pretty close to understanding what I am trying to do.
Yes, I am accumulating funds in a separate bank account for a large
purchase (let's say property taxes paid once a year).  Then when it is
time to pay the property tax I need to transfer the funds to my
checking account so that I can write the check to the county.  At the
same time I want to keep track of how much I have transferred for that
purpose.  For example, maybe I transfer the funds in two transactions
and I want a quick way to see if I have transferred enough.

In Quicken, my property tax budget was set to zero.  When I write the
check for the property taxes, say for $1,000, that expense category
goes to -$1,000.  Then when I transfer the funds, I can add them to
that budget line, bringing the property tax expense category back to
zero.  This way I have basically 3 entries, but I need an even number
of entries to follow double-entry accounting rules.  Two entries to
transfer the funds from one account to another, and then one to show
the funds going to the property tax expense.  Oh, and I guess two more
when I write the check to the county.
Thanks.
Brad


On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 3:54 PM Stan Brown  wrote:
>
>
> On 2022-04-22 14:37, Brad wrote:
> > My question is regarding transfer of funds from one account to
> > another.  I want to transfer funds from one account to another, but I
> > also want to track the transfer amount against an expense account so I
> > can keep track separately of how much I have transferred for different
> > reasons.
>
> Welcome to GnuCash, Brad! There's a bit of a learning curve coming from
> Quicken or most other software, because in GnuCash you're doing
> double-entry bookkeeping, and most of the details are visible to you.
> Have you looked at the Tutorial and Concepts Guide (in the Help menu)
> yet, to help you with that learning curve?
>
>
> By "transfer funds from one account to another", do you mean transfer
> from one bank account (or cash, money market, etc) to another? Is this a
> matter of segregating funds that you expect to spend for a large future
> expense, such as a vacation or a new furnace? I'm going to assume both
> of those are yes, but if I've guessed wrong please follow up with more
> details and perhaps an example of what you're trying to do.
>
>
>
> By the way, this isn't really a GnuCash problem, but an accounting
> problem. Your chart of accounts should be structured to let you
> aggregate information in the ways that you want. It would be no
> different if you were keeping our books in a big ledger with pen and ink.
>
>
>
> If you have some sort of bank account in which you're accumulating funds
> against a large future expense, you'd probably want to name that account
> in GnuCash as "Assets:Banks:Savings for Vacation" or similar. when you
> transfer money from your regular everyday bank account, your transaction
> would look like this:
>
> Debit: Assets:Banks:Savings for Vacation
>
> Credit:Assets:Banks:Regular Checking
>
>
>
> As for tracking against expenses, no expense is created by this account
> transfer. Why? Because even though you may presently intend to use these
> funds for a particular future expense, you haven't actually spent them
> yet, and you could change your mind before you do.
>
> When you start spending out of the vacation account, _that's_ when you
> have an expense, and your transactions would look like this:
>
> Debit: Expenses:Vacations
>
> Credit:Assets:Banks:Savings for Vacation
>
>
>
> --
>
> Stan Brown
>
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
>
> https://BrownMath.com
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Question about transfers

[Stan Brown]

On 2022-04-22 14:37, Brad wrote:
> My question is regarding transfer of funds from one account to
> another.  I want to transfer funds from one account to another, but I
> also want to track the transfer amount against an expense account so I
> can keep track separately of how much I have transferred for different
> reasons.

Welcome to GnuCash, Brad! There's a bit of a learning curve coming from
Quicken or most other software, because in GnuCash you're doing
double-entry bookkeeping, and most of the details are visible to you.
Have you looked at the Tutorial and Concepts Guide (in the Help menu)
yet, to help you with that learning curve?


By "transfer funds from one account to another", do you mean transfer
from one bank account (or cash, money market, etc) to another? Is this a
matter of segregating funds that you expect to spend for a large future
expense, such as a vacation or a new furnace? I'm going to assume both
of those are yes, but if I've guessed wrong please follow up with more
details and perhaps an example of what you're trying to do.



By the way, this isn't really a GnuCash problem, but an accounting
problem. Your chart of accounts should be structured to let you
aggregate information in the ways that you want. It would be no
different if you were keeping our books in a big ledger with pen and ink.



If you have some sort of bank account in which you're accumulating funds
against a large future expense, you'd probably want to name that account
in GnuCash as "Assets:Banks:Savings for Vacation" or similar. when you
transfer money from your regular everyday bank account, your transaction
would look like this:

Debit: Assets:Banks:Savings for Vacation

Credit:Assets:Banks:Regular Checking



As for tracking against expenses, no expense is created by this account
transfer. Why? Because even though you may presently intend to use these
funds for a particular future expense, you haven't actually spent them
yet, and you could change your mind before you do.

When you start spending out of the vacation account, _that's_ when you
have an expense, and your transactions would look like this:

Debit: Expenses:Vacations

Credit:Assets:Banks:Savings for Vacation



-- 

Stan Brown

Tehachapi, CA, USA

https://BrownMath.com
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Question about transfers

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

On Fri, April 22, 2022 5:37 pm, Brad wrote:
> Hello,
> I am new to GnuCash and to this list.  I am a long, long time Quicken
> user who has finally gotten fed up with Quicken and I am in the midst
> of converting to GnuCash.
>
> My question is regarding transfer of funds from one account to
> another.  I want to transfer funds from one account to another, but I
> also want to track the transfer amount against an expense account so I
> can keep track separately of how much I have transferred for different
> reasons.

>From a GAAP point of view, that does not make sense.  If you have an
account at Bank of America and another account at Truist, if you transfer
$100 from BoA to T it's not tied to any expense at all.

You could put a description in the transfer that says "For Groceries" if
you want, but there is no way to tie that transfer explicitly to the
Expenses:Groceries account.

> Anyone have any ideas?  I'm guessing it involves a split transaction
> of some sort, but I can't figure out what the pieces of the split look
> like.

What is actual transaction that you're trying to model?  Explain the
transaction (or series of transactions, but in that case make sure you
separate them) you have here.

But...  if you have money entering an account and then exiting an account,
and you want to mark that entry and exit, those are, necessarily, two
transactions.

> Thanks in advance for your help.
> Brad

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

PS: You COULD make a split transaction that, say, credits BoA, then both
debits and credits Truist, and then debits your Expense.   But that's
extremely ugly.

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

[GNC] Question about transfers

[Brad]

Hello,
I am new to GnuCash and to this list.  I am a long, long time Quicken
user who has finally gotten fed up with Quicken and I am in the midst
of converting to GnuCash.

My question is regarding transfer of funds from one account to
another.  I want to transfer funds from one account to another, but I
also want to track the transfer amount against an expense account so I
can keep track separately of how much I have transferred for different
reasons.

Anyone have any ideas?  I'm guessing it involves a split transaction
of some sort, but I can't figure out what the pieces of the split look
like.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Brad
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.