Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Fred Bone]

On 07 March 2023 at 18:50, R Losey said:

> But it's not just the split transaction; EVERY charge is decreasing the
> balance. It's like it thinks there was some huge overpayment and every
> charge is reducing that balance.
> 
> The attachment you provided doesn't have any payments, but every charge
> looks like mine. (I did discover that I have the Reverse Balanced Accounts
> set for credit cards; this must be the default, as I've never changed it).
> If this is off for you, the screenshot makes sense.

Take another look (attachment to email with "Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2023 
09:09:49 -0700").

There was one payment shown, which as you would expect increased the 
accumulated overpayment.

Whether the booked overpayment actually happened in reality is another 
matter, of course. The OP's emails suggest it didn't. The solution is 
likely to be found by tracking back in time.


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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[R Losey]

But it's not just the split transaction; EVERY charge is decreasing the
balance. It's like it thinks there was some huge overpayment and every
charge is reducing that balance.

The attachment you provided doesn't have any payments, but every charge
looks like mine. (I did discover that I have the Reverse Balanced Accounts
set for credit cards; this must be the default, as I've never changed it).
If this is off for you, the screenshot makes sense.

On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 9:01 AM Custom Shots  wrote:

> I didn't notice that. I must be getting bleary eyed looking through
> accounts. Here is the split transaction. I credited ( new charge ) to the
> credit card and debited ( new debit ) to the Expenses:Dining account. and
> yes the balance owed was reduced by that amount. Still something is not
> right. I can't figure out what it is.
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 10:44 AM Fred Bone  wrote:
>
> > On 06 March 2023 at 9:47, Custom Shots said:
> >
> > > The credit card starts as Liabiliies:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard"
> It's
> > > not that charges are reducing the balance. Charges and Payments, both,
> > > increase the balance owed. The other half of the transaction,
> calculates
> > > correctly.
> >
> > Not on the screenshot you showed us. According to that, you were owed
> > 3585.23 on 2/21 and your "dining" expense on 2/23 reduced that to 3559.39
> >
> > Credits and debits (charges and payments) are working in opposite
> > directions, as is proper.
> >
> >
> >
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-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Custom Shots]

I didn't notice that. I must be getting bleary eyed looking through
accounts. Here is the split transaction. I credited ( new charge ) to the
credit card and debited ( new debit ) to the Expenses:Dining account. and
yes the balance owed was reduced by that amount. Still something is not
right. I can't figure out what it is.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 10:44 AM Fred Bone  wrote:

> On 06 March 2023 at 9:47, Custom Shots said:
>
> > The credit card starts as Liabiliies:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard" It's
> > not that charges are reducing the balance. Charges and Payments, both,
> > increase the balance owed. The other half of the transaction, calculates
> > correctly.
>
> Not on the screenshot you showed us. According to that, you were owed
> 3585.23 on 2/21 and your "dining" expense on 2/23 reduced that to 3559.39
>
> Credits and debits (charges and payments) are working in opposite
> directions, as is proper.
>
>
>
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Custom Shots]

You explain the problem precisely. Charges do increase the balance owed.
The problem is that  payments increase the balance owed regardless of
whether the balance is displayed as a negative number or a positive number.
I understand everyone thinking it is a data entry error but the opposite
side of the double entry transaction calculates correctly.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 10:43 AM R Losey  wrote:

> From reading the posts on this list, I still think this is a data entry
> issue... It is correct that payments should lower the balance...
>
> But are charges being entered correctly?
>
> When you enter a credit card payment, it "has" to be correct, because you
> know it takes money away from your bank account and is applied to the
> credit card balance.
>
> However, when you enter charges, they could be reversed; one entry is on
> some "Expense" item, and the other is against the charges.
>
> In other words, are your charges showing up in the same column as the
> payments?  If so, then that's your answer.
>
> I am not using formal accounting labels; I don't *think* I have the
> Reverse Balance Accounts set (I can't find it, but I'm using the default).
>
> As I add charges, my credit card balance increases, and is positive.
> Payments are negative, and decrease the balance.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 11:20 AM Custom Shots 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm going to answer your questions one by one but for clarification, I've
>> been using GC for years. I always balance my accounts monthly. GC has
>> always performed flawlessly. Yes, I have made mistakes now and again and I
>> resolved them with adjusting transactions.
>>
>> I don't remember when I opened the accounts. I balance accounts monthly so
>> this is new.
>>
>> No, I did not err in opening the account. I charge things and pay the bill
>> entirely every month. It has always been accurate. Balancing a checkbook
>> is
>> easy for me to do and that side of the transactions is correct. It is only
>> in this one credit card account that I"m having problems. A charge
>> increases the balance owed. A payment increases the balance owed. I don't
>> understand how that can happen.
>>
>> My computer recently automatically upgraded the OS to Ubuntu 22.04.2 and
>> Linux kernel to 5.19.0-35. I may be grasping at straws here but could that
>> be the problem? I may have been working in GC at the time of the upgrade.
>>
>> I would see a positive number in the payment in the column and then a
>> larger balance due, a negative number in the balance column.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:49 AM Stan Brown (using GC 2.6.19) <
>> stan+gnuc...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks for confirming that you selected Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit
>> > Accounts. That's the setting I use, so I can speak confidently about how
>> > GC works in our case.
>> >
>> > I'm assuming (I think we all are) that when you created the account and
>> > entered your opening balance, you owed money on the credit card or
>> > perhaps had a zero balance. Please confirm whether that's accurate.
>> >
>> > Someone asked if perhaps you initially made an error by entering the
>> > opening balance as a negative rather than a positive. Is that a
>> > possibility?
>> >
>> > Look at that account's register, scroll up to the top if necessary, and
>> > look at the very first entry. If you owed money on that credit card when
>> > you started with GC, the first entry should have a positive number in
>> > the Credit (middle) column of the three money columns, and the Balance
>> > (third) column should also be positive.
>> >
>> > If you see a positive balance in the Debit (first) money column and also
>> > in the Balance (third) column, something is very wrong and I can't
>> > advise you. I think that's pretty darned unlikely, and I'm mentioning it
>> > only for completeness.
>> >
>> > If you see a positive balance in the Debit (first) money column and
>> > negative balance in the third column, there's your problem. There are
>> > two ways to fix this.
>> >
>> > (option A) Delete the number from the Debit column and put (still as a
>> > positive) in the Credit column. That will of course put your books out
>> > of balance by double the amount, which you'll need to fix. If you don't
>> > see all the splits of the transaction, click Split in the menu at the
>> > top of the GC window, then figure out what the reversing entry should be
>> > and edit accordingly. Run a balance sheet to make sure everything is in
>> > balance now.
>> >
>> > (option B) The conservative practice would be to make an adjusting entry
>> > as of today. Assuming the opening balance was -123.45, the entry would
>> be:
>> > Description: Correct opening balance of _ credit card, entered
>> > backward by mistake
>> > Debit to Equity:main Equity account: 246.90 (double the opening
>> > balance)
>> > Credit to Liabilities _ credit card account 246.90
>> > The numbers will still be wrong from the start to yesterday, but there
>> > will be no q

Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Stan Brown]

On 2023-03-06 09:45, Michael or Penny Nova ck wrote:
> Based on decades in the cypher mines (very senior analyst) might I point
> something out. If you have four credit card accounts and three of them
> are working properly as expected but one is not << the problem you are
> describing >> the problem isn't with the program. It is your settings or
> data entered. Look for what is different between the three that are good
> and this one that is bad. There IS something different.

That's a really excellent point, which I don't think anyone else has
made in this thread. I wholeheartedly agree.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[David H]

It's under Preferences >> Accounts if you're still looking.

Regards David H.

[image: image.png]


On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 at 03:44, R Losey  wrote:

> From reading the posts on this list, I still think this is a data entry
> issue... It is correct that payments should lower the balance...
>
> But are charges being entered correctly?
>
> When you enter a credit card payment, it "has" to be correct, because you
> know it takes money away from your bank account and is applied to the
> credit card balance.
>
> However, when you enter charges, they could be reversed; one entry is on
> some "Expense" item, and the other is against the charges.
>
> In other words, are your charges showing up in the same column as the
> payments?  If so, then that's your answer.
>
> I am not using formal accounting labels; I don't *think* I have the Reverse
> Balance Accounts set (I can't find it, but I'm using the default).
>
> As I add charges, my credit card balance increases, and is positive.
> Payments are negative, and decrease the balance.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 11:20 AM Custom Shots 
> wrote:
>
> > I'm going to answer your questions one by one but for clarification, I've
> > been using GC for years. I always balance my accounts monthly. GC has
> > always performed flawlessly. Yes, I have made mistakes now and again and
> I
> > resolved them with adjusting transactions.
> >
> > I don't remember when I opened the accounts. I balance accounts monthly
> so
> > this is new.
> >
> > No, I did not err in opening the account. I charge things and pay the
> bill
> > entirely every month. It has always been accurate. Balancing a checkbook
> is
> > easy for me to do and that side of the transactions is correct. It is
> only
> > in this one credit card account that I"m having problems. A charge
> > increases the balance owed. A payment increases the balance owed. I don't
> > understand how that can happen.
> >
> > My computer recently automatically upgraded the OS to Ubuntu 22.04.2 and
> > Linux kernel to 5.19.0-35. I may be grasping at straws here but could
> that
> > be the problem? I may have been working in GC at the time of the upgrade.
> >
> > I would see a positive number in the payment in the column and then a
> > larger balance due, a negative number in the balance column.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:49 AM Stan Brown (using GC 2.6.19) <
> > stan+gnuc...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for confirming that you selected Reverse Balance Accounts:
> Credit
> > > Accounts. That's the setting I use, so I can speak confidently about
> how
> > > GC works in our case.
> > >
> > > I'm assuming (I think we all are) that when you created the account and
> > > entered your opening balance, you owed money on the credit card or
> > > perhaps had a zero balance. Please confirm whether that's accurate.
> > >
> > > Someone asked if perhaps you initially made an error by entering the
> > > opening balance as a negative rather than a positive. Is that a
> > > possibility?
> > >
> > > Look at that account's register, scroll up to the top if necessary, and
> > > look at the very first entry. If you owed money on that credit card
> when
> > > you started with GC, the first entry should have a positive number in
> > > the Credit (middle) column of the three money columns, and the Balance
> > > (third) column should also be positive.
> > >
> > > If you see a positive balance in the Debit (first) money column and
> also
> > > in the Balance (third) column, something is very wrong and I can't
> > > advise you. I think that's pretty darned unlikely, and I'm mentioning
> it
> > > only for completeness.
> > >
> > > If you see a positive balance in the Debit (first) money column and
> > > negative balance in the third column, there's your problem. There are
> > > two ways to fix this.
> > >
> > > (option A) Delete the number from the Debit column and put (still as a
> > > positive) in the Credit column. That will of course put your books out
> > > of balance by double the amount, which you'll need to fix. If you don't
> > > see all the splits of the transaction, click Split in the menu at the
> > > top of the GC window, then figure out what the reversing entry should
> be
> > > and edit accordingly. Run a balance sheet to make sure everything is in
> > > balance now.
> > >
> > > (option B) The conservative practice would be to make an adjusting
> entry
> > > as of today. Assuming the opening balance was -123.45, the entry would
> > be:
> > > Description: Correct opening balance of _ credit card, entered
> > > backward by mistake
> > > Debit to Equity:main Equity account: 246.90 (double the opening
> > > balance)
> > > Credit to Liabilities _ credit card account 246.90
> > > The numbers will still be wrong from the start to yesterday, but there
> > > will be no question about what haoppened and how you fixed it.
> > >
> > > HOW TO CHOOSE: Some people don't like changing historical records, and
> I
> > > see their point b

Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Adrien Monteleone]

As I noted above, with the 'Reverse Balance' preference set to Credit 
Accounts, a balance due on a Liability will show as positive. Negative 
will only display if you've overpaid. (a 'contra-balance' condition)


Payments therefore would make a Liability balance more negative (away 
from zero).


If charges do the same, your charges are backwards. They belong in the 
right (not left) column.


If it helps, turn on formal accounting labels.

Payments should be in the Debit column (left)
Charges in the Credit column (right)

If you've been putting charges in the left column for years, then your 
expense accounts are also backwards - for years.


Regards,
Adrien

On 3/6/23 11:17 AM, Custom Shots wrote:

I would see a positive number in the payment in the column and then a
larger balance due, a negative number in the balance column.


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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Adrien Monteleone]

No. That shows a 'contra condition' as negative numbers.

The normal balance for a Liability (when you owe someone else) is a 
Credit balance.


GnuCash represents Credit balances as negative numbers.

If you have 'reverse balance' set to Credit Accounts, than those 
accounts will only show negative if they are the *opposite* of their 
normal balance.


In this case, if you owe the card company, with that preference set, 
your account will show as a positive amount. The more you charge on the 
card, the more the balance goes up positively from zero.


As you pay it down, the number shrinks and goes towards zero.

If you overpay, then it will go negative.

Since you have described the opposite condition, one or more, or likely 
all transactions in that account are backwards. That will supply endless 
confusion until it is fixed. (this also affects every other account with 
balancing splits to that card - bank, expenses, etc.)


Regardless of your column labels, all charges should be in the right 
column (credit), and all payments and any reverse charges in the left 
column. (debit)


Regards,
Adrien

On 3/6/23 10:09 AM, Custom Shots wrote:

John Ralls,
In GnuCash Preferences: Accounts: Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit Accounts
is selected. That shows amounts owed as negative numbers..


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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Michael or Penny Novack]

<< aside first -- general user advice >>


My computer recently automatically upgraded the OS to Ubuntu 22.04.2 and
Linux kernel to 5.19.0-35. I may be grasping at straws here but could that
be the problem? I may have been working in GC at the time of the upgrade.


Do NOT allow automatic upgrade of OS while you are working (have 
applications open). Change your preference from "do automatic" to 
"notify me if upgrade available". That gives you a chance to shut all 
apps, log in as administrator, etc. and then start the upgrade as a time 
of your convenience. This advice is not operating system specific.



But no straw. An upgrade while apps open, data files open, etc. could 
conceivably cause data corruption, just as a crash can do that. But it 
would not cause program corruption, not create an ongoing problem that 
persisted past the next time that program was started (the copy of the 
program in the programs directory might be being read while the program 
running, but not written to. So when the computer is restarted and the 
app opened, good fresh copy.


Based on decades in the cypher mines (very senior analyst) might I point 
something out. If you have four credit card accounts and three of them 
are working properly as expected but one is not << the problem you are 
describing >> the problem isn't with the program. It is your settings or 
data entered. Look for what is different between the three that are good 
and this one that is bad. There IS something different.


Michael D Novack.

PS --- If it makes you feel better, I can remember times when several 
very experienced pros stared for hours looking for the difference that 
we knew must be there before we finally found it.



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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Fred Bone]

On 06 March 2023 at 9:47, Custom Shots said:

> The credit card starts as Liabiliies:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard" It's
> not that charges are reducing the balance. Charges and Payments, both,
> increase the balance owed. The other half of the transaction, calculates
> correctly.

Not on the screenshot you showed us. According to that, you were owed 
3585.23 on 2/21 and your "dining" expense on 2/23 reduced that to 3559.39

Credits and debits (charges and payments) are working in opposite 
directions, as is proper.


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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[R Losey]

From reading the posts on this list, I still think this is a data entry
issue... It is correct that payments should lower the balance...

But are charges being entered correctly?

When you enter a credit card payment, it "has" to be correct, because you
know it takes money away from your bank account and is applied to the
credit card balance.

However, when you enter charges, they could be reversed; one entry is on
some "Expense" item, and the other is against the charges.

In other words, are your charges showing up in the same column as the
payments?  If so, then that's your answer.

I am not using formal accounting labels; I don't *think* I have the Reverse
Balance Accounts set (I can't find it, but I'm using the default).

As I add charges, my credit card balance increases, and is positive.
Payments are negative, and decrease the balance.



On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 11:20 AM Custom Shots  wrote:

> I'm going to answer your questions one by one but for clarification, I've
> been using GC for years. I always balance my accounts monthly. GC has
> always performed flawlessly. Yes, I have made mistakes now and again and I
> resolved them with adjusting transactions.
>
> I don't remember when I opened the accounts. I balance accounts monthly so
> this is new.
>
> No, I did not err in opening the account. I charge things and pay the bill
> entirely every month. It has always been accurate. Balancing a checkbook is
> easy for me to do and that side of the transactions is correct. It is only
> in this one credit card account that I"m having problems. A charge
> increases the balance owed. A payment increases the balance owed. I don't
> understand how that can happen.
>
> My computer recently automatically upgraded the OS to Ubuntu 22.04.2 and
> Linux kernel to 5.19.0-35. I may be grasping at straws here but could that
> be the problem? I may have been working in GC at the time of the upgrade.
>
> I would see a positive number in the payment in the column and then a
> larger balance due, a negative number in the balance column.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:49 AM Stan Brown (using GC 2.6.19) <
> stan+gnuc...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for confirming that you selected Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit
> > Accounts. That's the setting I use, so I can speak confidently about how
> > GC works in our case.
> >
> > I'm assuming (I think we all are) that when you created the account and
> > entered your opening balance, you owed money on the credit card or
> > perhaps had a zero balance. Please confirm whether that's accurate.
> >
> > Someone asked if perhaps you initially made an error by entering the
> > opening balance as a negative rather than a positive. Is that a
> > possibility?
> >
> > Look at that account's register, scroll up to the top if necessary, and
> > look at the very first entry. If you owed money on that credit card when
> > you started with GC, the first entry should have a positive number in
> > the Credit (middle) column of the three money columns, and the Balance
> > (third) column should also be positive.
> >
> > If you see a positive balance in the Debit (first) money column and also
> > in the Balance (third) column, something is very wrong and I can't
> > advise you. I think that's pretty darned unlikely, and I'm mentioning it
> > only for completeness.
> >
> > If you see a positive balance in the Debit (first) money column and
> > negative balance in the third column, there's your problem. There are
> > two ways to fix this.
> >
> > (option A) Delete the number from the Debit column and put (still as a
> > positive) in the Credit column. That will of course put your books out
> > of balance by double the amount, which you'll need to fix. If you don't
> > see all the splits of the transaction, click Split in the menu at the
> > top of the GC window, then figure out what the reversing entry should be
> > and edit accordingly. Run a balance sheet to make sure everything is in
> > balance now.
> >
> > (option B) The conservative practice would be to make an adjusting entry
> > as of today. Assuming the opening balance was -123.45, the entry would
> be:
> > Description: Correct opening balance of _ credit card, entered
> > backward by mistake
> > Debit to Equity:main Equity account: 246.90 (double the opening
> > balance)
> > Credit to Liabilities _ credit card account 246.90
> > The numbers will still be wrong from the start to yesterday, but there
> > will be no question about what haoppened and how you fixed it.
> >
> > HOW TO CHOOSE: Some people don't like changing historical records, and I
> > see their point because it can make changes harder to track. Also, with
> > the old pen-and-ink bookkeeping, which GC generally emulates, prior
> > entries couldn't be changed. If these books are just for your own use,
> > tracking is less of an issue because I daresay after all this kerfuffle
> > you'll remember what you did. But a real accountant would most liklely
> > choose 

Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[john]

The Parent Account is irrelevant to whether the account is a debit-balance or a 
credit-balance account, only the Account Type matters. The screenshot shows the 
bottom of the Edit Account dialog for a correctly configured credit card 
account. If for your account the Account Type is anything besides Credit Card 
or Liability then it's a debit-balance account and will exhibit the behavior 
you're seeing.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Mar 6, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Custom Shots  wrote:
> 
> Thank you for all your ideas. The Credit Card is definitely under 
> liabilities. I can't understand how it is only with this one account that the 
> problem occurs. 

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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Murugan Muruganandam]

It is not about the Parent Account, What is the account type in the left side 
panel




Saludos Cordiales


Murugan


From: Custom Shots 
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 2:27 PM
To: Murugan Muruganandam 
Cc: john ; gnucash-user@gnucash.org 

Subject: Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

Thank you for all your ideas. The Credit Card is definitely under liabilities. 
I can't understand how it is only with this one account that the problem occurs.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 10:17 AM Murugan Muruganandam 
mailto:m.muruganan...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Only if you have created the credit card account as type "asset" this behaviour 
would be seen. please check the screenshots




Saludos Cordiales


Murugan


From: Custom Shots mailto:customsh...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 1:48 PM
To: Murugan Muruganandam 
mailto:m.muruganan...@hotmail.com>>
Cc: john mailto:jra...@ceridwen.us>>; 
gnucash-user@gnucash.org<mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> 
mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>
Subject: Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

Yes, they are all Liabilities:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard"

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:47 AM Custom Shots 
mailto:customsh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The credit card starts as Liabiliies:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard" It's not 
that charges are reducing the balance. Charges and Payments, both, increase the 
balance owed. The other half of the transaction, calculates correctly.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:21 AM Murugan Muruganandam 
mailto:m.muruganan...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Can you please explain what  account type you have selected to create this 
credit card account?  your charges are reducing your outstanding and not the 
other way around?





Saludos Cordiales


Murugan


From: gnucash-user 
mailto:hotmail@gnucash.org>>
 on behalf of Custom Shots mailto:customsh...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 1:09 PM
To: john mailto:jra...@ceridwen.us>>
Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org<mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> 
mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>
Subject: Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

John Ralls,
In GnuCash Preferences: Accounts: Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit Accounts
is selected. That shows amounts owed as negative numbers.
After adjusting settings as others have suggested, I have seen another
anomaly. This is happening with only one credit account. I have four credit
accounts. The other three are working properly. This one in question is the
only one that is incorrect. I am attaching a screenshot of the register as
it is after changing settings. Like this or with reverse balance accounts
credit selected the balance should go down after a payment. It doesn't it
goes up. Even with negative numbers, the negative balance owed goes up
meaning I owe more after a payment.

On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 10:45 AM john 
mailto:jra...@ceridwen.us>> wrote:

>
>
> > On Mar 5, 2023, at 7:03 AM, Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net<mailto:stepbystepf...@comcast.net>> wrote:
> >
> > On 3/4/2023 1:26 PM, Custom Shots wrote:
> >> I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
> this
> >> has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction
> to my
> >> credit card account the negative balance increases instead of
> decreasing.
> >> Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build
> ID:
> >> 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
> entry
> >> transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
> >
> > Are we confusing you?
> >
> > Let's go back to the beginning (and that is where the mistake was)
> >
> > What are you saying when you say "the credit card balance is negative"?
> What are you saying when you say "I owe you ten dollars" vs "I owe you
> NEGATIVE ten dollars".
> >
> > The credit card account is a liability. If it INCREASES it means you owe
> more. If it decreases it means you owe less. So the transactions are doing
> the right thing. Your problem was with the initial balance. IF you started
> out owing NEGATIVE five hundred dollars and you made a payment of two
> hundred dollars the balance should be negative seven hundred dollars. In
> other words, your transactions were doing the right thing but your initial
> balance was on the wrong side of the ledger.
> >
> > OK, you are where you are, how to correct your books. You apparently
> started your books with an amount for the credit card account of some
> negative amount X. So now you nee

Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Murugan Muruganandam]

can you send the screenshot of the account from edit account pop up




Saludos Cordiales


Murugan


From: Custom Shots 
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 2:27 PM
To: Murugan Muruganandam 
Cc: john ; gnucash-user@gnucash.org 

Subject: Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

Thank you for all your ideas. The Credit Card is definitely under liabilities. 
I can't understand how it is only with this one account that the problem occurs.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 10:17 AM Murugan Muruganandam 
mailto:m.muruganan...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Only if you have created the credit card account as type "asset" this behaviour 
would be seen. please check the screenshots




Saludos Cordiales


Murugan


From: Custom Shots mailto:customsh...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 1:48 PM
To: Murugan Muruganandam 
mailto:m.muruganan...@hotmail.com>>
Cc: john mailto:jra...@ceridwen.us>>; 
gnucash-user@gnucash.org<mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> 
mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>
Subject: Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

Yes, they are all Liabilities:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard"

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:47 AM Custom Shots 
mailto:customsh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The credit card starts as Liabiliies:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard" It's not 
that charges are reducing the balance. Charges and Payments, both, increase the 
balance owed. The other half of the transaction, calculates correctly.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:21 AM Murugan Muruganandam 
mailto:m.muruganan...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Can you please explain what  account type you have selected to create this 
credit card account?  your charges are reducing your outstanding and not the 
other way around?





Saludos Cordiales


Murugan


From: gnucash-user 
mailto:hotmail@gnucash.org>>
 on behalf of Custom Shots mailto:customsh...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 1:09 PM
To: john mailto:jra...@ceridwen.us>>
Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org<mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> 
mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>
Subject: Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

John Ralls,
In GnuCash Preferences: Accounts: Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit Accounts
is selected. That shows amounts owed as negative numbers.
After adjusting settings as others have suggested, I have seen another
anomaly. This is happening with only one credit account. I have four credit
accounts. The other three are working properly. This one in question is the
only one that is incorrect. I am attaching a screenshot of the register as
it is after changing settings. Like this or with reverse balance accounts
credit selected the balance should go down after a payment. It doesn't it
goes up. Even with negative numbers, the negative balance owed goes up
meaning I owe more after a payment.

On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 10:45 AM john 
mailto:jra...@ceridwen.us>> wrote:

>
>
> > On Mar 5, 2023, at 7:03 AM, Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net<mailto:stepbystepf...@comcast.net>> wrote:
> >
> > On 3/4/2023 1:26 PM, Custom Shots wrote:
> >> I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
> this
> >> has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction
> to my
> >> credit card account the negative balance increases instead of
> decreasing.
> >> Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build
> ID:
> >> 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
> entry
> >> transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
> >
> > Are we confusing you?
> >
> > Let's go back to the beginning (and that is where the mistake was)
> >
> > What are you saying when you say "the credit card balance is negative"?
> What are you saying when you say "I owe you ten dollars" vs "I owe you
> NEGATIVE ten dollars".
> >
> > The credit card account is a liability. If it INCREASES it means you owe
> more. If it decreases it means you owe less. So the transactions are doing
> the right thing. Your problem was with the initial balance. IF you started
> out owing NEGATIVE five hundred dollars and you made a payment of two
> hundred dollars the balance should be negative seven hundred dollars. In
> other words, your transactions were doing the right thing but your initial
> balance was on the wrong side of the ledger.
> >
> > OK, you are where you are, how to correct your books. You apparently
> started your books with an amount for the credit card account of some
> negative amount X. So now you need to enter a corr

Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Custom Shots]

Thank you for all your ideas. The Credit Card is definitely under
liabilities. I can't understand how it is only with this one account that
the problem occurs.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 10:17 AM Murugan Muruganandam <
m.muruganan...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Only if you have created the credit card account as type "asset" this
> behaviour would be seen. please check the screenshots
>
>
>
> Saludos Cordiales
>
>
> Murugan
> --
> *From:* Custom Shots 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2023 1:48 PM
> *To:* Murugan Muruganandam 
> *Cc:* john ; gnucash-user@gnucash.org <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with
> payment
>
> Yes, they are all Liabilities:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard"
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:47 AM Custom Shots  wrote:
>
> The credit card starts as Liabiliies:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard" It's
> not that charges are reducing the balance. Charges and Payments, both,
> increase the balance owed. The other half of the transaction, calculates
> correctly.
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:21 AM Murugan Muruganandam <
> m.muruganan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can you please explain what  account type you have selected to create this
> credit card account?  your charges are reducing your outstanding and not
> the other way around?
>
>
>
>
> Saludos Cordiales
>
>
> Murugan
> ------
> *From:* gnucash-user  hotmail....@gnucash.org> on behalf of Custom Shots 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2023 1:09 PM
> *To:* john 
> *Cc:* gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
> *Subject:* Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with
> payment
>
> John Ralls,
> In GnuCash Preferences: Accounts: Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit Accounts
> is selected. That shows amounts owed as negative numbers.
> After adjusting settings as others have suggested, I have seen another
> anomaly. This is happening with only one credit account. I have four credit
> accounts. The other three are working properly. This one in question is the
> only one that is incorrect. I am attaching a screenshot of the register as
> it is after changing settings. Like this or with reverse balance accounts
> credit selected the balance should go down after a payment. It doesn't it
> goes up. Even with negative numbers, the negative balance owed goes up
> meaning I owe more after a payment.
>
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 10:45 AM john  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 5, 2023, at 7:03 AM, Michael or Penny Novack <
> > stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 3/4/2023 1:26 PM, Custom Shots wrote:
> > >> I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
> > this
> > >> has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction
> > to my
> > >> credit card account the negative balance increases instead of
> > decreasing.
> > >> Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build
> > ID:
> > >> 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
> > entry
> > >> transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
> > >
> > > Are we confusing you?
> > >
> > > Let's go back to the beginning (and that is where the mistake was)
> > >
> > > What are you saying when you say "the credit card balance is negative"?
> > What are you saying when you say "I owe you ten dollars" vs "I owe you
> > NEGATIVE ten dollars".
> > >
> > > The credit card account is a liability. If it INCREASES it means you
> owe
> > more. If it decreases it means you owe less. So the transactions are
> doing
> > the right thing. Your problem was with the initial balance. IF you
> started
> > out owing NEGATIVE five hundred dollars and you made a payment of two
> > hundred dollars the balance should be negative seven hundred dollars. In
> > other words, your transactions were doing the right thing but your
> initial
> > balance was on the wrong side of the ledger.
> > >
> > > OK, you are where you are, how to correct your books. You apparently
> > started your books with an amount for the credit card account of some
> > negative amount X. So now you need to enter a correction transaction in
> the
> > amount of 2X. The debit side would be starting equity and the credit side
> > your credit card account. You are reducing your equity by 2X because you
> > initially overstated it by X and you did owe X.
> 

Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Custom Shots]

I'm going to answer your questions one by one but for clarification, I've
been using GC for years. I always balance my accounts monthly. GC has
always performed flawlessly. Yes, I have made mistakes now and again and I
resolved them with adjusting transactions.

I don't remember when I opened the accounts. I balance accounts monthly so
this is new.

No, I did not err in opening the account. I charge things and pay the bill
entirely every month. It has always been accurate. Balancing a checkbook is
easy for me to do and that side of the transactions is correct. It is only
in this one credit card account that I"m having problems. A charge
increases the balance owed. A payment increases the balance owed. I don't
understand how that can happen.

My computer recently automatically upgraded the OS to Ubuntu 22.04.2 and
Linux kernel to 5.19.0-35. I may be grasping at straws here but could that
be the problem? I may have been working in GC at the time of the upgrade.

I would see a positive number in the payment in the column and then a
larger balance due, a negative number in the balance column.


On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:49 AM Stan Brown (using GC 2.6.19) <
stan+gnuc...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> Thanks for confirming that you selected Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit
> Accounts. That's the setting I use, so I can speak confidently about how
> GC works in our case.
>
> I'm assuming (I think we all are) that when you created the account and
> entered your opening balance, you owed money on the credit card or
> perhaps had a zero balance. Please confirm whether that's accurate.
>
> Someone asked if perhaps you initially made an error by entering the
> opening balance as a negative rather than a positive. Is that a
> possibility?
>
> Look at that account's register, scroll up to the top if necessary, and
> look at the very first entry. If you owed money on that credit card when
> you started with GC, the first entry should have a positive number in
> the Credit (middle) column of the three money columns, and the Balance
> (third) column should also be positive.
>
> If you see a positive balance in the Debit (first) money column and also
> in the Balance (third) column, something is very wrong and I can't
> advise you. I think that's pretty darned unlikely, and I'm mentioning it
> only for completeness.
>
> If you see a positive balance in the Debit (first) money column and
> negative balance in the third column, there's your problem. There are
> two ways to fix this.
>
> (option A) Delete the number from the Debit column and put (still as a
> positive) in the Credit column. That will of course put your books out
> of balance by double the amount, which you'll need to fix. If you don't
> see all the splits of the transaction, click Split in the menu at the
> top of the GC window, then figure out what the reversing entry should be
> and edit accordingly. Run a balance sheet to make sure everything is in
> balance now.
>
> (option B) The conservative practice would be to make an adjusting entry
> as of today. Assuming the opening balance was -123.45, the entry would be:
> Description: Correct opening balance of _ credit card, entered
> backward by mistake
> Debit to Equity:main Equity account: 246.90 (double the opening
> balance)
> Credit to Liabilities _ credit card account 246.90
> The numbers will still be wrong from the start to yesterday, but there
> will be no question about what haoppened and how you fixed it.
>
> HOW TO CHOOSE: Some people don't like changing historical records, and I
> see their point because it can make changes harder to track. Also, with
> the old pen-and-ink bookkeeping, which GC generally emulates, prior
> entries couldn't be changed. If these books are just for your own use,
> tracking is less of an issue because I daresay after all this kerfuffle
> you'll remember what you did. But a real accountant would most liklely
> choose option B even so.
>
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com
>
> On 2023-03-06 08:09, Custom Shots wrote:
> > In GnuCash Preferences: Accounts: Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit
> Accounts
> > is selected. That shows amounts owed as negative numbers.
> > After adjusting settings as others have suggested, I have seen another
> > anomaly. This is happening with only one credit account. I have four
> credit
> > accounts. The other three are working properly. This one in question is
> the
> > only one that is incorrect. I am attaching a screenshot of the register
> as
> > it is after changing settings. Like this or with reverse balance accounts
> > credit selected the balance should go down after a payment. It doesn't it
> > goes up. Even with negative numbers, the negative balance owed goes up
> > meaning I owe more after a payment.
>
___
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Stan Brown (using GC 2.6.19)]

Thanks for confirming that you selected Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit
Accounts. That's the setting I use, so I can speak confidently about how
GC works in our case.

I'm assuming (I think we all are) that when you created the account and
entered your opening balance, you owed money on the credit card or
perhaps had a zero balance. Please confirm whether that's accurate.

Someone asked if perhaps you initially made an error by entering the
opening balance as a negative rather than a positive. Is that a possibility?

Look at that account's register, scroll up to the top if necessary, and
look at the very first entry. If you owed money on that credit card when
you started with GC, the first entry should have a positive number in
the Credit (middle) column of the three money columns, and the Balance
(third) column should also be positive.

If you see a positive balance in the Debit (first) money column and also
in the Balance (third) column, something is very wrong and I can't
advise you. I think that's pretty darned unlikely, and I'm mentioning it
only for completeness.

If you see a positive balance in the Debit (first) money column and
negative balance in the third column, there's your problem. There are
two ways to fix this.

(option A) Delete the number from the Debit column and put (still as a
positive) in the Credit column. That will of course put your books out
of balance by double the amount, which you'll need to fix. If you don't
see all the splits of the transaction, click Split in the menu at the
top of the GC window, then figure out what the reversing entry should be
and edit accordingly. Run a balance sheet to make sure everything is in
balance now.

(option B) The conservative practice would be to make an adjusting entry
as of today. Assuming the opening balance was -123.45, the entry would be:
Description: Correct opening balance of _ credit card, entered
backward by mistake
Debit to Equity:main Equity account: 246.90 (double the opening balance)
Credit to Liabilities _ credit card account 246.90
The numbers will still be wrong from the start to yesterday, but there
will be no question about what haoppened and how you fixed it.

HOW TO CHOOSE: Some people don't like changing historical records, and I
see their point because it can make changes harder to track. Also, with
the old pen-and-ink bookkeeping, which GC generally emulates, prior
entries couldn't be changed. If these books are just for your own use,
tracking is less of an issue because I daresay after all this kerfuffle
you'll remember what you did. But a real accountant would most liklely
choose option B even so.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com

On 2023-03-06 08:09, Custom Shots wrote:
> In GnuCash Preferences: Accounts: Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit Accounts
> is selected. That shows amounts owed as negative numbers.
> After adjusting settings as others have suggested, I have seen another
> anomaly. This is happening with only one credit account. I have four credit
> accounts. The other three are working properly. This one in question is the
> only one that is incorrect. I am attaching a screenshot of the register as
> it is after changing settings. Like this or with reverse balance accounts
> credit selected the balance should go down after a payment. It doesn't it
> goes up. Even with negative numbers, the negative balance owed goes up
> meaning I owe more after a payment.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Custom Shots]

Yes, they are all Liabilities:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard"

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:47 AM Custom Shots  wrote:

> The credit card starts as Liabiliies:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard" It's
> not that charges are reducing the balance. Charges and Payments, both,
> increase the balance owed. The other half of the transaction, calculates
> correctly.
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:21 AM Murugan Muruganandam <
> m.muruganan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can you please explain what  account type you have selected to create
>> this credit card account?  your charges are reducing your outstanding and
>> not the other way around?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Saludos Cordiales
>>
>>
>> Murugan
>> --
>> *From:* gnucash-user > hotmail@gnucash.org> on behalf of Custom Shots > >
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2023 1:09 PM
>> *To:* john 
>> *Cc:* gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
>> *Subject:* Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with
>> payment
>>
>> John Ralls,
>> In GnuCash Preferences: Accounts: Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit
>> Accounts
>> is selected. That shows amounts owed as negative numbers.
>> After adjusting settings as others have suggested, I have seen another
>> anomaly. This is happening with only one credit account. I have four
>> credit
>> accounts. The other three are working properly. This one in question is
>> the
>> only one that is incorrect. I am attaching a screenshot of the register as
>> it is after changing settings. Like this or with reverse balance accounts
>> credit selected the balance should go down after a payment. It doesn't it
>> goes up. Even with negative numbers, the negative balance owed goes up
>> meaning I owe more after a payment.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 10:45 AM john  wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Mar 5, 2023, at 7:03 AM, Michael or Penny Novack <
>> > stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > On 3/4/2023 1:26 PM, Custom Shots wrote:
>> > >> I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
>> > this
>> > >> has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction
>> > to my
>> > >> credit card account the negative balance increases instead of
>> > decreasing.
>> > >> Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build
>> > ID:
>> > >> 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
>> > entry
>> > >> transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works
>> correctly.
>> > >
>> > > Are we confusing you?
>> > >
>> > > Let's go back to the beginning (and that is where the mistake was)
>> > >
>> > > What are you saying when you say "the credit card balance is
>> negative"?
>> > What are you saying when you say "I owe you ten dollars" vs "I owe you
>> > NEGATIVE ten dollars".
>> > >
>> > > The credit card account is a liability. If it INCREASES it means you
>> owe
>> > more. If it decreases it means you owe less. So the transactions are
>> doing
>> > the right thing. Your problem was with the initial balance. IF you
>> started
>> > out owing NEGATIVE five hundred dollars and you made a payment of two
>> > hundred dollars the balance should be negative seven hundred dollars. In
>> > other words, your transactions were doing the right thing but your
>> initial
>> > balance was on the wrong side of the ledger.
>> > >
>> > > OK, you are where you are, how to correct your books. You apparently
>> > started your books with an amount for the credit card account of some
>> > negative amount X. So now you need to enter a correction transaction in
>> the
>> > amount of 2X. The debit side would be starting equity and the credit
>> side
>> > your credit card account. You are reducing your equity by 2X because you
>> > initially overstated it by X and you did owe X.
>> >
>> > Michael,
>> >
>> > Careful: The representation of the balance in the register depends on
>> > Preferences>Accounts>Reversed Balance Accounts. What you say is correct
>> if
>> > the default Credit Accounts is selected, but if either of the others is
>> > selected then a credit card (or any other liability and equity) register
>> > will show a negative balance when used in the normal way.
>> >
>> > Custom Shots,
>> >
>> > Please tell us what you have set for that preference.
>> > Regards,
>> > John Ralls
>> >
>> > ___
>> > gnucash-user mailing list
>> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> > -
>> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>> >
>>
>
___
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-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Custom Shots]

The credit card starts as Liabiliies:CreditCard:"specificcreditcard" It's
not that charges are reducing the balance. Charges and Payments, both,
increase the balance owed. The other half of the transaction, calculates
correctly.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:21 AM Murugan Muruganandam <
m.muruganan...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Can you please explain what  account type you have selected to create this
> credit card account?  your charges are reducing your outstanding and not
> the other way around?
>
>
>
>
> Saludos Cordiales
>
>
> Murugan
> --
> *From:* gnucash-user  hotmail@gnucash.org> on behalf of Custom Shots 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2023 1:09 PM
> *To:* john 
> *Cc:* gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
> *Subject:* Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with
> payment
>
> John Ralls,
> In GnuCash Preferences: Accounts: Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit Accounts
> is selected. That shows amounts owed as negative numbers.
> After adjusting settings as others have suggested, I have seen another
> anomaly. This is happening with only one credit account. I have four credit
> accounts. The other three are working properly. This one in question is the
> only one that is incorrect. I am attaching a screenshot of the register as
> it is after changing settings. Like this or with reverse balance accounts
> credit selected the balance should go down after a payment. It doesn't it
> goes up. Even with negative numbers, the negative balance owed goes up
> meaning I owe more after a payment.
>
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 10:45 AM john  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 5, 2023, at 7:03 AM, Michael or Penny Novack <
> > stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 3/4/2023 1:26 PM, Custom Shots wrote:
> > >> I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
> > this
> > >> has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction
> > to my
> > >> credit card account the negative balance increases instead of
> > decreasing.
> > >> Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build
> > ID:
> > >> 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
> > entry
> > >> transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
> > >
> > > Are we confusing you?
> > >
> > > Let's go back to the beginning (and that is where the mistake was)
> > >
> > > What are you saying when you say "the credit card balance is negative"?
> > What are you saying when you say "I owe you ten dollars" vs "I owe you
> > NEGATIVE ten dollars".
> > >
> > > The credit card account is a liability. If it INCREASES it means you
> owe
> > more. If it decreases it means you owe less. So the transactions are
> doing
> > the right thing. Your problem was with the initial balance. IF you
> started
> > out owing NEGATIVE five hundred dollars and you made a payment of two
> > hundred dollars the balance should be negative seven hundred dollars. In
> > other words, your transactions were doing the right thing but your
> initial
> > balance was on the wrong side of the ledger.
> > >
> > > OK, you are where you are, how to correct your books. You apparently
> > started your books with an amount for the credit card account of some
> > negative amount X. So now you need to enter a correction transaction in
> the
> > amount of 2X. The debit side would be starting equity and the credit side
> > your credit card account. You are reducing your equity by 2X because you
> > initially overstated it by X and you did owe X.
> >
> > Michael,
> >
> > Careful: The representation of the balance in the register depends on
> > Preferences>Accounts>Reversed Balance Accounts. What you say is correct
> if
> > the default Credit Accounts is selected, but if either of the others is
> > selected then a credit card (or any other liability and equity) register
> > will show a negative balance when used in the normal way.
> >
> > Custom Shots,
> >
> > Please tell us what you have set for that preference.
> > Regards,
> > John Ralls
> >
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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> >
>
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Murugan Muruganandam]

Can you please explain what  account type you have selected to create this 
credit card account?  your charges are reducing your outstanding and not the 
other way around?





Saludos Cordiales


Murugan


From: gnucash-user 
 on behalf of 
Custom Shots 
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 1:09 PM
To: john 
Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject: Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

John Ralls,
In GnuCash Preferences: Accounts: Reverse Balance Accounts: Credit Accounts
is selected. That shows amounts owed as negative numbers.
After adjusting settings as others have suggested, I have seen another
anomaly. This is happening with only one credit account. I have four credit
accounts. The other three are working properly. This one in question is the
only one that is incorrect. I am attaching a screenshot of the register as
it is after changing settings. Like this or with reverse balance accounts
credit selected the balance should go down after a payment. It doesn't it
goes up. Even with negative numbers, the negative balance owed goes up
meaning I owe more after a payment.

On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 10:45 AM john  wrote:

>
>
> > On Mar 5, 2023, at 7:03 AM, Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > On 3/4/2023 1:26 PM, Custom Shots wrote:
> >> I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
> this
> >> has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction
> to my
> >> credit card account the negative balance increases instead of
> decreasing.
> >> Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build
> ID:
> >> 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
> entry
> >> transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
> >
> > Are we confusing you?
> >
> > Let's go back to the beginning (and that is where the mistake was)
> >
> > What are you saying when you say "the credit card balance is negative"?
> What are you saying when you say "I owe you ten dollars" vs "I owe you
> NEGATIVE ten dollars".
> >
> > The credit card account is a liability. If it INCREASES it means you owe
> more. If it decreases it means you owe less. So the transactions are doing
> the right thing. Your problem was with the initial balance. IF you started
> out owing NEGATIVE five hundred dollars and you made a payment of two
> hundred dollars the balance should be negative seven hundred dollars. In
> other words, your transactions were doing the right thing but your initial
> balance was on the wrong side of the ledger.
> >
> > OK, you are where you are, how to correct your books. You apparently
> started your books with an amount for the credit card account of some
> negative amount X. So now you need to enter a correction transaction in the
> amount of 2X. The debit side would be starting equity and the credit side
> your credit card account. You are reducing your equity by 2X because you
> initially overstated it by X and you did owe X.
>
> Michael,
>
> Careful: The representation of the balance in the register depends on
> Preferences>Accounts>Reversed Balance Accounts. What you say is correct if
> the default Credit Accounts is selected, but if either of the others is
> selected then a credit card (or any other liability and equity) register
> will show a negative balance when used in the normal way.
>
> Custom Shots,
>
> Please tell us what you have set for that preference.
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Mark via gnucash-user]

Mar 6, 2023 10:11:40 Custom Shots :

> This is happening with only one credit account. I have four credit
> accounts. The other three are working properly. This one in question is the
> only one that is incorrect.

Are they all set as type "credit card"? If you right click the account and 
click edit account you can see and change what type the account is.
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[john]

> On Mar 5, 2023, at 7:03 AM, Michael or Penny Novack 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 3/4/2023 1:26 PM, Custom Shots wrote:
>> I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and this
>> has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction to my
>> credit card account the negative balance increases instead of decreasing.
>> Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build ID:
>> 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double entry
>> transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
> 
> Are we confusing you?
> 
> Let's go back to the beginning (and that is where the mistake was)
> 
> What are you saying when you say "the credit card balance is negative"? What 
> are you saying when you say "I owe you ten dollars" vs "I owe you NEGATIVE 
> ten dollars".
> 
> The credit card account is a liability. If it INCREASES it means you owe 
> more. If it decreases it means you owe less. So the transactions are doing 
> the right thing. Your problem was with the initial balance. IF you started 
> out owing NEGATIVE five hundred dollars and you made a payment of two hundred 
> dollars the balance should be negative seven hundred dollars. In other words, 
> your transactions were doing the right thing but your initial balance was on 
> the wrong side of the ledger.
> 
> OK, you are where you are, how to correct your books. You apparently started 
> your books with an amount for the credit card account of some negative amount 
> X. So now you need to enter a correction transaction in the amount of 2X. The 
> debit side would be starting equity and the credit side your credit card 
> account. You are reducing your equity by 2X because you initially overstated 
> it by X and you did owe X.

Michael,

Careful: The representation of the balance in the register depends on 
Preferences>Accounts>Reversed Balance Accounts. What you say is correct if the 
default Credit Accounts is selected, but if either of the others is selected 
then a credit card (or any other liability and equity) register will show a 
negative balance when used in the normal way.

Custom Shots,

Please tell us what you have set for that preference.
Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 3/4/2023 1:26 PM, Custom Shots wrote:

I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and this
has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction to my
credit card account the negative balance increases instead of decreasing.
Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build ID:
4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double entry
transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.


Are we confusing you?

Let's go back to the beginning (and that is where the mistake was)

What are you saying when you say "the credit card balance is negative"? 
What are you saying when you say "I owe you ten dollars" vs "I owe you 
NEGATIVE ten dollars".


The credit card account is a liability. If it INCREASES it means you owe 
more. If it decreases it means you owe less. So the transactions are 
doing the right thing. Your problem was with the initial balance. IF you 
started out owing NEGATIVE five hundred dollars and you made a payment 
of two hundred dollars the balance should be negative seven hundred 
dollars. In other words, your transactions were doing the right thing 
but your initial balance was on the wrong side of the ledger.


OK, you are where you are, how to correct your books. You apparently 
started your books with an amount for the credit card account of some 
negative amount X. So now you need to enter a correction transaction in 
the amount of 2X. The debit side would be starting equity and the credit 
side your credit card account. You are reducing your equity by 2X 
because you initially overstated it by X and you did owe X.


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[R Losey]

I was sure someone else would say this.

My credit card balance is positive, not negative - as I add charges, the
positive total goes up... as I make payments, the total goes down. I'm
guessing that all of your charges are reversed.

On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 2:46 PM Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Are you sure you have all your CC Charges entered correctly?
> It sounds like something is being entered backwards.
>
> -derek
>
> On Sat, March 4, 2023 2:28 pm, Custom Shots wrote:
> > That's exactly what I'm saying.  I owe $500. That's a negative balance in
> > my credit card account, showing in red with a minus sign. I enter a
> > payment
> > of $200 and the negative balance increases to -$700. The negative balance
> > should decrease to -$300. Yet the other half of the transaction correctly
> > withdraws $200 from cash.
> > I did play with the settings when I decided I liked seeing what I owed as
> > red negative numbers.
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 4, 2023, 11:54 AM Stan Brown 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 2023-03-04 10:26, Custom Shots wrote:
> >> > I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
> >> this
> >> > has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction
> >> to
> >> my
> >> > credit card account the negative balance increases instead of
> >> decreasing.
> >> > Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build
> >> ID:
> >> > 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
> >> entry
> >> > transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
> >>
> >> Presumably by "correctly" you mean that the positive balance of the cash
> >> or checking account goes down? If so, I agree with you that it's
> >> correct: a credit to an asset account reduces the balance of that
> >> account. (Paying someone is a credit to cash, and getting money from
> >> someone is a debit to cash.)
> >>
> >> You might take a look in Edit » Preferences » Accounts, under "Reverse
> >> Balanced Accounts". I can't remember the details from when I set up my
> >> data file a few years ago, but I do remember that on experimenting with
> >> those settings the only one that _didn't_ give nonsensical results was
> >> "Credit accounts".  (I mean nonsensical to me; I'm sure the developers
> >> must have had some good reason for those other settings.)
> >>
> >> Are you saying something like: the balance on your Visa account was
> >> minus $200, and you paid $65, and now the balance is minus $265 instead
> >> of the expected minus $135? That would be wrong under any circumstances,
> >> as far as I can understand. Or did you mean it literally that the
> >> account balance "increases", since minus $135 is greater than minus
> >> $200? If that's what you meant, then everything is correct except that
> >> the credit-card account is showing a minus sign in front of correct
> >> balances, and for that I'd definitely have a look at "Reverse Balanced
> >> Accounts".
> >>
> >> Stan Brown
> >> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> >> https://BrownMath.com
> >> ___
> >> gnucash-user mailing list
> >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> >> -
> >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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> >>
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
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>
>
> --
>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>
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-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[David Carlson]

Taking into consideration the advice given by others here, now try changing
Edit>Preferences>Accounts>Reverse Balanced Accounts to None from Credit.
This will change the running balance in your credit card accounts to the
red color that you prefer, but it will not change the text color, signs or
columns of the amounts in the transactions.



On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 4:14 PM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>
> > I would take Stan's advice and change, at least temporarily, to the
> formal
> > accounting labels. The logic implemented in GnuCash to keep to the
> accounting
> > formalism is most clearly expressed in that format.
>
> Yes --- those new to double entry bookkeeping can be easily confused by
> the supposedly user friendly column titles. Gnucash is showing ledger
> accounts in three column format (pretty much a 20th Century change form
> the older two column format with no running balance kept. The three
> columns are debit, credit, and running balance.
>
> > A purchase made via  a Credit card account (a liability)  will have a an
> entry
> > with a split crediting that account with the other split a debit entry
> to an
>
> You can confuse folks new to double entry bookkeeping when you use a
> term like "split" that way. All transactions have AT LEAST two accounts
> affected, a debit and a credit. Reserve "split" for when there are more
> than two so either the debit side, the credit side, or both are split
> into more than one account on that side of the transaction.
>
> OK, back to the original problem. The transaction represented by a
> payment on a credit card would be a debit to the credit card account and
> a credit to the account from which the payment was made. That would
> USUALLY be a checking account, but notice that I am not assuming that <<
> the transaction MIGHT be a "balance transfer" between two credit cards >>
>
> I strongly suggest you choose options like "show as negative" only once
> you are experienced with double entry bookkeeping. Double entry
> bookkeeping evolved before European math accepted negative numbers. The
> "senses" are debit and credit (not positive and negative) and that's not
> the same. Instead, the different fundamental account types have either a
> debit or credit natural balance. If an account whose natural balance is
> debit has a credit balance that's like a negative but note that the
> reverse is true. For an account whose natural balance is credit, a debit
> balance would be like negative. In other words, can;t associate debit
> with plus and credit with minus.
>
> Michael D Novack
>
>
>
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-- 
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Michael or Penny Novack]

I would take Stan's advice and change, at least temporarily, to the formal
accounting labels. The logic implemented in GnuCash to keep to the accounting
formalism is most clearly expressed in that format.


Yes --- those new to double entry bookkeeping can be easily confused by 
the supposedly user friendly column titles. Gnucash is showing ledger 
accounts in three column format (pretty much a 20th Century change form 
the older two column format with no running balance kept. The three 
columns are debit, credit, and running balance.



A purchase made via  a Credit card account (a liability)  will have a an entry
with a split crediting that account with the other split a debit entry to an


You can confuse folks new to double entry bookkeeping when you use a 
term like "split" that way. All transactions have AT LEAST two accounts 
affected, a debit and a credit. Reserve "split" for when there are more 
than two so either the debit side, the credit side, or both are split 
into more than one account on that side of the transaction.


OK, back to the original problem. The transaction represented by a 
payment on a credit card would be a debit to the credit card account and 
a credit to the account from which the payment was made. That would 
USUALLY be a checking account, but notice that I am not assuming that << 
the transaction MIGHT be a "balance transfer" between two credit cards >>


I strongly suggest you choose options like "show as negative" only once 
you are experienced with double entry bookkeeping. Double entry 
bookkeeping evolved before European math accepted negative numbers. The 
"senses" are debit and credit (not positive and negative) and that's not 
the same. Instead, the different fundamental account types have either a 
debit or credit natural balance. If an account whose natural balance is 
debit has a credit balance that's like a negative but note that the 
reverse is true. For an account whose natural balance is credit, a debit 
balance would be like negative. In other words, can;t associate debit 
with plus and credit with minus.


Michael D Novack



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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[David Cousens]

I would take Stan's advice and change, at least temporarily, to the formal
accounting labels. The logic implemented in GnuCash to keep to the accounting
formalism is most clearly expressed in that format.

A purchase made via  a Credit card account (a liability)  will have a an entry
with a split crediting that account with the other split a debit entry to an
asset account(capital purchase) or an expense account. This will increase the
(positive) balance of the account.

A payment to the credit account should be a credit entry split to your bank
account and a debit entry split to the credit card account. This will decrease
the credit card account (positive) balance. Unless you overpay it, your credit
card should not have a negative balance.

Anything else will then likely be an incorrect transaction.

David Cousens




On Sat, 2023-03-04 at 11:26 -0700, Custom Shots wrote:
> I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and this
> has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction to my
> credit card account the negative balance increases instead of decreasing.
> Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build ID:
> 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double entry
> transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
> ___
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Derek Atkins]

Are you sure you have all your CC Charges entered correctly?
It sounds like something is being entered backwards.

-derek

On Sat, March 4, 2023 2:28 pm, Custom Shots wrote:
> That's exactly what I'm saying.  I owe $500. That's a negative balance in
> my credit card account, showing in red with a minus sign. I enter a
> payment
> of $200 and the negative balance increases to -$700. The negative balance
> should decrease to -$300. Yet the other half of the transaction correctly
> withdraws $200 from cash.
> I did play with the settings when I decided I liked seeing what I owed as
> red negative numbers.
>
> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023, 11:54 AM Stan Brown 
> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-03-04 10:26, Custom Shots wrote:
>> > I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
>> this
>> > has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction
>> to
>> my
>> > credit card account the negative balance increases instead of
>> decreasing.
>> > Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build
>> ID:
>> > 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
>> entry
>> > transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
>>
>> Presumably by "correctly" you mean that the positive balance of the cash
>> or checking account goes down? If so, I agree with you that it's
>> correct: a credit to an asset account reduces the balance of that
>> account. (Paying someone is a credit to cash, and getting money from
>> someone is a debit to cash.)
>>
>> You might take a look in Edit » Preferences » Accounts, under "Reverse
>> Balanced Accounts". I can't remember the details from when I set up my
>> data file a few years ago, but I do remember that on experimenting with
>> those settings the only one that _didn't_ give nonsensical results was
>> "Credit accounts".  (I mean nonsensical to me; I'm sure the developers
>> must have had some good reason for those other settings.)
>>
>> Are you saying something like: the balance on your Visa account was
>> minus $200, and you paid $65, and now the balance is minus $265 instead
>> of the expected minus $135? That would be wrong under any circumstances,
>> as far as I can understand. Or did you mean it literally that the
>> account balance "increases", since minus $135 is greater than minus
>> $200? If that's what you meant, then everything is correct except that
>> the credit-card account is showing a minus sign in front of correct
>> balances, and for that I'd definitely have a look at "Reverse Balanced
>> Accounts".
>>
>> Stan Brown
>> Tehachapi, CA, USA
>> https://BrownMath.com
>> ___
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-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Stan Brown]

> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023, 11:54 AM Stan Brown  > wrote:
> 
[snip]
> You might take a look in Edit » Preferences » Accounts, under "Reverse
> Balanced Accounts". I can't remember the details from when I set up my
> data file a few years ago, but I do remember that on experimenting with
> those settings the only one that _didn't_ give nonsensical results was
> "Credit accounts".  (I mean nonsensical to me; I'm sure the developers
> must have had some good reason for those other settings.)
> 
> Are you saying something like: the balance on your Visa account was
> minus $200, and you paid $65, and now the balance is minus $265 instead
> of the expected minus $135? ...

On 2023-03-04 11:28, Custom Shots wrote:
> That's exactly what I'm saying.  I owe $500. That's a negative balance
> in my credit card account, showing in red with a minus sign. I enter a
> payment of $200 and the negative balance increases to -$700. The
> negative balance should decrease to -$300. Yet the other half of the
> transaction correctly withdraws $200 from cash.
> I did play with the settings when I decided I liked seeing what I owed
> as red negative numbers.

In that case, I don't have anything else to offer. I'll look forward to
seeing how this is resolved. I think it's unlikely to be a bug -- that
would have been caught long ago -- but I can't think of another explanation.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Custom Shots]

That's exactly what I'm saying.  I owe $500. That's a negative balance in
my credit card account, showing in red with a minus sign. I enter a payment
of $200 and the negative balance increases to -$700. The negative balance
should decrease to -$300. Yet the other half of the transaction correctly
withdraws $200 from cash.
I did play with the settings when I decided I liked seeing what I owed as
red negative numbers.

On Sat, Mar 4, 2023, 11:54 AM Stan Brown  wrote:

> On 2023-03-04 10:26, Custom Shots wrote:
> > I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
> this
> > has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction to
> my
> > credit card account the negative balance increases instead of decreasing.
> > Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build ID:
> > 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
> entry
> > transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
>
> Presumably by "correctly" you mean that the positive balance of the cash
> or checking account goes down? If so, I agree with you that it's
> correct: a credit to an asset account reduces the balance of that
> account. (Paying someone is a credit to cash, and getting money from
> someone is a debit to cash.)
>
> You might take a look in Edit » Preferences » Accounts, under "Reverse
> Balanced Accounts". I can't remember the details from when I set up my
> data file a few years ago, but I do remember that on experimenting with
> those settings the only one that _didn't_ give nonsensical results was
> "Credit accounts".  (I mean nonsensical to me; I'm sure the developers
> must have had some good reason for those other settings.)
>
> Are you saying something like: the balance on your Visa account was
> minus $200, and you paid $65, and now the balance is minus $265 instead
> of the expected minus $135? That would be wrong under any circumstances,
> as far as I can understand. Or did you mean it literally that the
> account balance "increases", since minus $135 is greater than minus
> $200? If that's what you meant, then everything is correct except that
> the credit-card account is showing a minus sign in front of correct
> balances, and for that I'd definitely have a look at "Reverse Balanced
> Accounts".
>
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Stan Brown]

On 2023-03-04 10:26, Custom Shots wrote:
> I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and this
> has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction to my
> credit card account the negative balance increases instead of decreasing.
> Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build ID:
> 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double entry
> transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.

Presumably by "correctly" you mean that the positive balance of the cash
or checking account goes down? If so, I agree with you that it's
correct: a credit to an asset account reduces the balance of that
account. (Paying someone is a credit to cash, and getting money from
someone is a debit to cash.)

To balance that credit, the other side of the transaction, the part
applied to your credit-card account, must be a debit. The credit-card
account is a liability, so a debit reduces its balance. If the balance
is already negative, then a debit will make it more negative.

You might take a look in Edit » Preferences » Accounts, under "Reverse
Balanced Accounts". I can't remember the details from when I set up my
data file a few years ago, but I do remember that on experimenting with
those settings the only one that _didn't_ give nonsensical results was
"Credit accounts".  (I mean nonsensical to me; I'm sure the developers
must have had some good reason for those other settings.)

So you might experiment with that setting. (You might also consider
ticking the box to use "formal accounting labels". Some people like the
informal ones, some don't. The formal labels require you to know what a
debit and a credit are, but that's easily learned and then at least one
layer of obscurity is removed when diagnosing unexpected behavior.)

But I'm trying to work out what you're reporting, and I don't understand
it. You say the credit-card account was negative before you made the
payment, and then it "increased". That doesn't seem right -- normally a
credit-card account would be positive, being your liability, the amount
you owe. (But the "Reverse Balanced Accounts" setting I mentioned above
could change that.)

Are you saying something like: the balance on your Visa account was
minus $200, and you paid $65, and now the balance is minus $265 instead
of the expected minus $135? That would be wrong under any circumstances,
as far as I can understand. Or did you mean it literally that the
account balance "increases", since minus $135 is greater than minus
$200? If that's what you meant, then everything is correct except that
the credit-card account is showing a minus sign in front of correct
balances, and for that I'd definitely have a look at "Reverse Balanced
Accounts".

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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