Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Aaron Toponce]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 01:45:17PM -0400, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
> IMO, if your client is showing correct PGP/MIME signatures on this list,
> you should file a defect report about your client.  The message has been
> changed in transit and is no longer in the exact same state as it was
> when the sender issued it.  The change may be trivial, but it's still a
> change, and IMO it is not the job of the MUA to try and fix the botchery
> inflicted by GNU Mailman.  The correct thing to do, IMO, is to report to
> the user the true state of affairs: "the signature is not correct and
> the message appears to have been altered in transit."

I don't understand this. Mutt verifies the signature correctly, but Mutt is
calling GnuPG externally. If the message was signed with a space, and if
the space is being replaced by a tab character, then the signature should
fail. Because it is not failing, is telling me that it was initially a tab
when you signed the mail, and something either mangled it to be a space, or
your diff(1) is reading a text that mangled the tab to a space. I don't see
how this is the failure of the MUA, but GnuPG says the signature verifies.

-- 
. o .   o . o   . . o   o . .   . o .
. . o   . o o   o . o   . o o   . . o
o o o   . o .   . o o   o o .   o o o


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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:45:17 -0400
"Robert J. Hansen"  wrote:

Hello Robert,

>IMO, if your client is showing correct PGP/MIME signatures on this list,
>you should file a defect report about your client. 

It certainly warrants investigation.  I'll check bug tracker and ML
archives to see if it's known first.

-- 
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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
What do you call that noise, that you put on?
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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Robert J. Hansen]

On 06/29/2012 12:02 PM, Steve wrote:
> Oh dear. I found it. The bug has been reported
> 2003: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/265961

That bug turned out to be in Enigmail, not Mailman.  Mailman was
repackaging the attachment in a way that was technically valid but which
Enigmail wasn't expecting.  Patrick fixed that bug about a decade ago: I
think the fix predates the 0.9 release.

There was a different PGP/MIME bug that Daniel Kahn Gillmor [1] reported
to Mailman a while ago, and discovered it had been fixed and was now a
lifecycle issue.

The bug affecting GnuPG-Users may either of those two older ones, or
something completely new -- I've barely looked into it at all.


[1] Daniel, if I'm misspelling your last name please accept my
apologies.  I seem to never remember the correct spelling, and I assume
you like seeing your name misspelled about as much as I like being
called "Rob Hanson."  :)

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:48:28 -0400
"Robert J. Hansen"  wrote:

Hello Robert,

>Mika is more or less right, except it isn't headers -- it's the PGP/MIME
>attachment separator.  Mailman makes a very slight tweak and that's

That makes more sense.  I thought I must have been going mad.   :-)

>This mailing list does not play nice with PGP/MIME, the last time I
>checked.  (For a long time Enigmail's list didn't, either, but that

Seems okay here;  Most messages check out, be they inline or MIME
signed.  As I said before (IIRC) it's something else that borks the PGP
sig.

Thanks for the explanations, Robert.


-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:02:57 +0300
Mika Suomalainen  wrote:

Hello Mika,

>I am using GMail as headers probably say if you look at them.

The form address is hotmail. Message ID is hotmail, too.  gmail *is*
mentioned, but not in any of the transport headers.  Anyhow, Robert has
explained where and how the breakage occurs.

> PS. Could you install and setup Enigmail and try to verify PGP/MIME by
> yourself?

Short answer;  No.

Longer answer;  I'm not inclined to install another MUA (Thunderbird),
set it up for use, install enigmail and set that up, just to test for
this breakage.

-- 
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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Robert J. Hansen]

On 06/29/2012 12:26 PM, Brad Rogers wrote:
> Seems okay here;  Most messages check out, be they inline or MIME
> signed.

IMO, if your client is showing correct PGP/MIME signatures on this list,
you should file a defect report about your client.  The message has been
changed in transit and is no longer in the exact same state as it was
when the sender issued it.  The change may be trivial, but it's still a
change, and IMO it is not the job of the MUA to try and fix the botchery
inflicted by GNU Mailman.  The correct thing to do, IMO, is to report to
the user the true state of affairs: "the signature is not correct and
the message appears to have been altered in transit."

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Robert J. Hansen]

On 06/29/2012 12:00 PM, Steve wrote:
> not meaning to spark up new discussions about this issue (we've had that
> before). But I really think, the energy invested in this discussion
> would be better invested in writing mailman tweaks.

In the language of software engineering, this has moved from a defect to
fix to a lifecycle issue.  "Defect" is the stage where a bug is
reported: "fix" is the stage where the fix is available: "lifecycle" is
the often years-long process of getting the fix out to people who need it.

If I understand things correctly (and I may not be), Werner does not
host gnupg.org himself.  He rents a box in a colo facility for that, and
he's more or less stuck with whatever versions of software the provider
offers.  The provider hasn't offered an updated GNU Mailman, so
GnuPG-Users has this unfortunate situation where PGP/MIME doesn't
reliably work on it.

For what it's worth, my message left here as a correctly-signed PGP/MIME
message.  I received it back from the list as just 'signature.asc'.  A
(partial) diff of the two emails reveals:

>
> This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156)
> --===1821215289==
12,13c61,62
<  protocol="application/pgp-signature";
<  boundary="enigBE03611A84F54D493777EBD6"
---
>   protocol="application/pgp-signature";
>   boundary="enigBE03611A84F54D493777EBD6"
71a121,135
>
>
> --===1821215289==
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> ___
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> Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users


That should hopefully make it clear exactly what the problem is.

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Mika Suomalainen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

29.06.2012 15:06, Brad Rogers kirjoitti:
> Headers are outside what is signed, surely?
> 
> Changing, adding or removing headers should have no bearing on the 
> validity of PGP signatures.  If header changes were involved,
> nothing would be verifiable, because every mail server an email
> passes through adds at least on more piece of info to those
> headers.

Ask Enigmail developers, they are giving me this explaining.

> TBH, I'd have thought the issues you're experiencing are more
> likely to be caused by Hotmail.

I am using GMail as headers probably say if you look at them.

PS. Could you install and setup Enigmail and try to verify PGP/MIME by
yourself?

- -- 
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-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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Comment: gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys 82A46728
Comment: Public key: http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt
Comment: Fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A  AA65 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
Comment: See my Icedove / Thunderbird guide here http://git.io/YUDk8g
Comment: See my GPG guide here http://git.io/5KWssQ
Comment: See my Enigmail guide here http://git.io/bXla3g
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP7dGvAAoJEE21PP6CpGcofCYP/2mR8/owjJcKAgqRdLaFvwqg
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ANzwKWB6fSItW4OxaKt9kG8nFRtQdhyJwKfiAarYum9El4iaM3h+OglaT2zXP4J6
CGPkGjCyYCImTIxACehUJf2BwK2sABpNoAhPpwOl6QSFZFPHMdkKpjaqIduzimEJ
GkRSlklqm9+6nyJdRrtG76Tjj5oBAEF3d8mlifISMQ+0h1rffHpUSYiMC9ypzXAp
xi/ZjgDo2Yd1CZnix+Dl
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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:00:03 +0200
Steve  wrote:

Hello Steve,

>not meaning to spark up new discussions about this issue (we've had
>that before). But I really think, the energy invested in this

It was not my intention to "open old wounds" as it were.  I was curious
about Mika's statement, which made no sense to me.  Robert's explained
things.  Curiosity satisfied.

>discussion would be better invested in writing mailman tweaks.

Would that I could.  I had trouble with "Hello World".  In BASIC.   :-(

-- 
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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Steve]

Oh dear. I found it. The bug has been reported 2003: 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/265961

I wish I had better coding skills, but I don't. Sorry I can't code the fix...

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Steve]

Hey all,

not meaning to spark up new discussions about this issue (we've had that 
before). But I really think, the energy invested in this discussion would be 
better invested in writing mailman tweaks.

Also, someone mentioned, that there already in fact *is* a mailman patch for 
PGP/MIME to work properly? Do I recall that memory correctly? I'm stunned that 
this issue keeps coming up.

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/ says Mailman 2.1.15 has been released on 
13-June-2012. Is the patch in question included in that release?

Imo, things should rather move forward than stagnate and arguing that a mailing 
list software breaks PGP/MIME is fine. But as a consequence arguing for a non 
documented standard (OpenPGP Inline) is strange. I'd rather argue, that mailman 
needs a fix.

Let's not start a war over this. But could someone please elaborate why mailman 
after such a long time still breaks PGP/MIME?

All the best and kind regards,
steve


Am 29.06.2012 um 17:48 schrieb Robert J. Hansen:

> On 06/29/2012 08:06 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
>>> If you ask on Enigmail mailing list, they will tell you that that
>>> issue is with Mailman (or other mailing list software) which messes up
>>> with headers and makes PGP/MIME unverifiable. They will also say that
>> 
>> Headers are outside what is signed, surely?
> 
> Mika is more or less right, except it isn't headers -- it's the PGP/MIME
> attachment separator.  Mailman makes a very slight tweak and that's
> enough to bollix up the signature.
> 
> This mailing list does not play nice with PGP/MIME, the last time I
> checked.  (For a long time Enigmail's list didn't, either, but that
> problem has since been fixed.)  In general, PGP/MIME with GNU Mailman is
> always a roll of the dice.
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, Mika is right: that's why Enigmail recommends inline OpenPGP.
> We've all seen PGP/MIME break in too many different contexts.  For
> instance, I've seen MTAs that strip off attachments, inspect the
> attachments for malware, then re-attach them but with very slight
> differences that break PGP/MIME.  I've seen MUAs that can't understand
> it, mailing list software that breaks it, and so on.
> 
> PGP/MIME is a superior technical standard, but it's quite fragile.  We
> believe PGP/MIME is the clear choice *if possible*, but given how often
> it's not possible we recommend inline OpenPGP by default.
> 
> 
> 
> (This message is PGP/MIME signed.  I know my system works correctly with
> PGP/MIME and that neither my MUA nor MTA mangle it.  If it's not coming
> through, the most likely culprit is the list's GNU Mailman installation.)
> 
> 
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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Robert J. Hansen]

On 06/29/2012 08:06 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
>> If you ask on Enigmail mailing list, they will tell you that that
>> issue is with Mailman (or other mailing list software) which messes up
>> with headers and makes PGP/MIME unverifiable. They will also say that
> 
> Headers are outside what is signed, surely?

Mika is more or less right, except it isn't headers -- it's the PGP/MIME
attachment separator.  Mailman makes a very slight tweak and that's
enough to bollix up the signature.

This mailing list does not play nice with PGP/MIME, the last time I
checked.  (For a long time Enigmail's list didn't, either, but that
problem has since been fixed.)  In general, PGP/MIME with GNU Mailman is
always a roll of the dice.



And yes, Mika is right: that's why Enigmail recommends inline OpenPGP.
We've all seen PGP/MIME break in too many different contexts.  For
instance, I've seen MTAs that strip off attachments, inspect the
attachments for malware, then re-attach them but with very slight
differences that break PGP/MIME.  I've seen MUAs that can't understand
it, mailing list software that breaks it, and so on.

PGP/MIME is a superior technical standard, but it's quite fragile.  We
believe PGP/MIME is the clear choice *if possible*, but given how often
it's not possible we recommend inline OpenPGP by default.



(This message is PGP/MIME signed.  I know my system works correctly with
PGP/MIME and that neither my MUA nor MTA mangle it.  If it's not coming
through, the most likely culprit is the list's GNU Mailman installation.)




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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:31:09 +0300
Mika Suomalainen  wrote:

Hello Mika,

>If you ask on Enigmail mailing list, they will tell you that that
>issue is with Mailman (or other mailing list software) which messes up
>with headers and makes PGP/MIME unverifiable. They will also say that

Headers are outside what is signed, surely?

Changing, adding or removing headers should have no bearing on the
validity of PGP signatures.  If header changes were involved, nothing
would be verifiable, because every mail server an email passes through
adds at least on more piece of info to those headers.

TBH, I'd have thought the issues you're experiencing are more likely to
be caused by Hotmail.

-- 
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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Mika Suomalainen]

On 27.06.2012 18:33, Peter Lebbing wrote:
> For future reference, that URL is in the headers of every mail you get from 
> the
> list, btw.


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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Mika Suomalainen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 28.06.2012 21:50, Peter Lebbing wrote:
> On 28/06/12 17:24, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>> Were you able to verify that signature?
> I don't believe my Enigmail is willing to check any PGP/MIME 
> signatures for me... must be something broken with the 
> installation. I don't really pay attention to signatures on this 
> mailing list, and this is the only place I come across PGP/MIME.

If you ask on Enigmail mailing list, they will tell you that that
issue is with Mailman (or other mailing list software) which messes up
with headers and makes PGP/MIME unverifiable. They will also say that
this is why they recommend PGP/INLINE, it's more resistant to messing
by mailing list software.

- -- 
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NOTICE! I am on mobile broadband with very limited time, so I cannot
read emails very much.
The best time to contact me is probably weekends when I have better
connectivity with good luck.

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Mika Suomalainen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

On 28.06.2012 18:55, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:24:32 +0300 Mika Suomalainen
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Mika,
> 
>>> Were you able to verify that signature?
> Several people use PGP/MIME, all of which verify here, and include
> the list headers you seem to be saying get removed.  Not only on
> this list, but many other lists, too.
> 
> I have seen weirdness with *footers* and PGP signed messages, but
> that is with footers not being displayed, rather than being
> removed. Checking message source shows that they are still there.

I am using Enigmail and I cannot verify any PGP/MIME signatures on
this list. They just appear as attachment: signature.asc and aren't
recognizes as PGP/MIME signatures.

This is why I have P-R rule to use PGP/INLINE on this list and others
which I know to fail with PGP/MIME.

- -- 
[Mika Suomalainen](https://mkaysi.github.com/) ||

NOTICE! I am on mobile broadband with very limited time, so I cannot
read emails very much.
The best time to contact me is probably weekends when I have better
connectivity with good luck.

[gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
4DB53CFE82A46728](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt) ||
[Why do I sign my
emails?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/WhyDoISignEmails.html) ||
[Do you have problems verifying my PGP/MIME signature on mailing
list?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/PGP-MIME.html) ||
[Please don't send
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[This signature](https://gist.github.com/2643070#file_icedove.md)

[Please reply below this
line](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/topposting.html)


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Homepage: http://mkaysi.github.com/
Comment: gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys 82A46728
Comment: Public key: http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt
Comment: Fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A  AA65 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
Comment: See my Icedove / Thunderbird guide here http://git.io/YUDk8g
Comment: See my GPG guide here http://git.io/5KWssQ
Comment: See my Enigmail guide here http://git.io/bXla3g
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP7ViQAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoKAIP/0kwEeZ3OEZaRY5hLCgozt6E
dnil3lxthW5Y1c4+m166CP10wnaVlAvx5LK/ZOaLZ8rt34NXzeQ6jWTCjXb+imSG
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Dj2gmnhAxpWIWuFrUCNx
=pdN/
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Peter Lebbing]

On 28/06/12 17:24, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> Were you able to verify that signature?

I don't believe my Enigmail is willing to check any PGP/MIME signatures for
me... must be something broken with the installation. I don't really pay
attention to signatures on this mailing list, and this is the only place I
come across PGP/MIME.

Peter.

-- 
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Brad Rogers]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:24:32 +0300
Mika Suomalainen  wrote:

Hello Mika,

>Were you able to verify that signature?

Several people use PGP/MIME, all of which verify here, and include the
list headers you seem to be saying get removed.  Not only on this list,
but many other lists, too.

I have seen weirdness with *footers* and PGP signed messages, but that
is with footers not being displayed, rather than being removed.
Checking message source shows that they are still there.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
Does she always shout at you, does she tell you what to do
Family Life - Sham 69


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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Mika Suomalainen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 28.06.2012 14:52, Peter Lebbing wrote:
> On 28/06/12 12:40, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>> I think that it's not on those, which are PGP/MIME signed.
> The PGP/MIME signed mail by Brad Rogers in this very thread does
> include the headers:
> 
>>> [...] Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:14:46 +0100 From: Brad Rogers
>>>  To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org Subject: Re:
>>> ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking Message-ID:
>>> <20120627161446.058c6...@abydos.stargate.org.uk> In-Reply-To:
>>> <20120627143030.99d05e6...@smtp.hushmail.com> References:
>>> <20120627143030.99d05e6...@smtp.hushmail.com> [...] List-Id:
>>> Help and discussion among users of GnuPG
>>>  List-Unsubscribe:
>>> <http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/options/gnupg-users>, 
>>> <mailto:gnupg-users-requ...@gnupg.org?subject=unsubscribe> 
>>> List-Archive:  List-Post:
>>> <mailto:gnupg-users@gnupg.org> List-Help:
>>> <mailto:gnupg-users-requ...@gnupg.org?subject=help> 
>>> List-Subscribe:
>>> <http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users>, 
>>> <mailto:gnupg-users-requ...@gnupg.org?subject=subscribe> 
>>> Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
>>> boundary="===0701166120==" Sender:
>>> gnupg-users-boun...@gnupg.org Errors-To:
>>> gnupg-users-boun...@gnupg.org
>>> 
>>> --===0701166120== Content-Type: multipart/signed;
>>> micalg=PGP-SHA256; boundary="Sig_/4hiLgDJgDUgTfM4CV5h8JMn"; 
>>> protocol="application/pgp-signature"

Were you able to verify that signature?

- -- 
[Mika Suomalainen](https://mkaysi.github.com/) ||

NOTICE! I am on mobile broadband with very limited time, so I cannot
read emails very much.
The best time to contact me is probably weekends when I have better
connectivity with good luck.

[gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
4DB53CFE82A46728](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt) ||
[Why do I sign my
emails?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/WhyDoISignEmails.html) ||
[Do you have problems verifying my PGP/MIME signature on mailing
list?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/PGP-MIME.html) ||
[Please don't send
HTML.](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/HTML.html) ||
[This signature](https://gist.github.com/2643070#file_icedove.md)

[Please reply below this
line](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/topposting.html)


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Homepage: http://mkaysi.github.com/
Comment: gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys 82A46728
Comment: Public key: http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt
Comment: Fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A  AA65 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
Comment: See my Icedove / Thunderbird guide here http://git.io/YUDk8g
Comment: See my GPG guide here http://git.io/5KWssQ
Comment: See my Enigmail guide here http://git.io/bXla3g
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP7HcsAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoikMP/0WRk81ygqvHlvqetvLkLg+T
JmvXH6ZeHTkZtpGEWpnXRDo27zsPTChgT5LWXZbmK3+4Cu64MvGnls0HD21Xdnc+
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=JS1W
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Peter Lebbing]

On 28/06/12 12:40, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> I think that it's not on those, which are PGP/MIME signed.

The PGP/MIME signed mail by Brad Rogers in this very thread does include the
headers:

> [...]
> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:14:46 +0100
> From: Brad Rogers 
> To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> Subject: Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking
> Message-ID: <20120627161446.058c6...@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
> In-Reply-To: <20120627143030.99d05e6...@smtp.hushmail.com>
> References: <20120627143030.99d05e6...@smtp.hushmail.com>
> [...]
> List-Id: Help and discussion among users of GnuPG 
> List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/options/gnupg-users>,
>   <mailto:gnupg-users-requ...@gnupg.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> List-Archive: 
> List-Post: <mailto:gnupg-users@gnupg.org>
> List-Help: <mailto:gnupg-users-requ...@gnupg.org?subject=help>
> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users>,
>   <mailto:gnupg-users-requ...@gnupg.org?subject=subscribe>
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===0701166120=="
> Sender: gnupg-users-boun...@gnupg.org
> Errors-To: gnupg-users-boun...@gnupg.org
> 
> --===0701166120==
> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA256;
>   boundary="Sig_/4hiLgDJgDUgTfM4CV5h8JMn";
>   protocol="application/pgp-signature"

Peter.

-- 
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Mika Suomalainen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 27.06.2012 18:33, Peter Lebbing wrote:
> For future reference, that URL is in the headers of every mail you
> get from the list, btw.

I think that it's not on those, which are PGP/MIME signed.

- -- 
[Mika Suomalainen](https://mkaysi.github.com/) ||

NOTICE! I am on mobile broadband with very limited time, so I cannot
read emails very much.
The best time to contact me is probably weekends when I have better
connectivity with good luck.

[gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
4DB53CFE82A46728](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt) ||
[Why do I sign my
emails?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/WhyDoISignEmails.html) ||
[Do you have problems verifying my PGP/MIME signature on mailing
list?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/PGP-MIME.html) ||
[Please don't send
HTML.](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/HTML.html) ||
[This signature](https://gist.github.com/2643070#file_icedove.md)

[Please reply below this
line](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/topposting.html)


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Homepage: http://mkaysi.github.com/
Comment: gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys 82A46728
Comment: Public key: http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt
Comment: Fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A  AA65 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
Comment: See my Icedove / Thunderbird guide here http://git.io/YUDk8g
Comment: See my GPG guide here http://git.io/5KWssQ
Comment: See my Enigmail guide here http://git.io/bXla3g
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP7DSOAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoj0wQAJ7jhKESXtXSXDayKRdqwDrK
qTzIsjNm4SyQZ6+AHOO0i+oCi/Qc3sk5bWzj0jXby93pK65Y+eWswjdoNw3Dd1K2
dEaH5WEGUzJpeizzPwZCXlT5NXI7ISNIcKTWYaapgPMh3u8txPy3/y3Qr82vrgwY
MkBj08Y01NTtz6ZFnt4TOACzNFeTIlKMyd3sID0i9w2QhAkfOvubFN32Kiip78ep
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7Xg2cIovqcG1gQNyKZcG
=oLUB
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking (Andy Ruddock)

[vedaal]

>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:54:16 +0100
>From: Andy Ruddock 

>I just set up a free hushmail account, using the web interface you 

>don't
>get an In-Reply-To field in the header.
>I couldn't find any settings which would enable this.
>So, if you're using a free hushmail account then I guess you're 
>going to
>continue breaking threads.
>If you're a premium user then you can use pop and/or imap and a
>different mail client.

am a premium user
(btw, free hushmail has very little space, and doesn't allow for 
nym's,
so any hush user whose e-mail address ends in 'nym.hush.com' is a 
premium user)

Usually access gnupg during downtime at work, and cannot use a 
'nym' on my work-based e-mail clients.

Will think about setting up a 'non-thread breaker' thunderbird 
arrangement on my laptop, and send messages from there


Thanks

vedaal


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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Andy Ruddock]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

ved...@nym.hush.com wrote:
> 
> ok
> 
> changed to individual digest mode, and replying directly
> (hushmail default of 'reply' is to individual user and cc to list)
> 
> hope it works,
> 
> if not, any other suggestions to try in hushmail?
> 
> TIA
> 
> vedaal
> 

I just set up a free hushmail account, using the web interface you don't
get an In-Reply-To field in the header.
I couldn't find any settings which would enable this.
So, if you're using a free hushmail account then I guess you're going to
continue breaking threads.
If you're a premium user then you can use pop and/or imap and a
different mail client.

- -- 
Andy Ruddock
- 
andy.rudd...@rainydayz.org (GPG Key ID 0xB0324245)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJP6zq4AAoJECqtbbewMkJFTBYP/j1PuZPmanl4a3JwYFqsfoMz
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VeEmO6NVMk11+cUWBJeT
=c2Cy
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[vedaal]

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:34:02 -0400 Peter Lebbing 
 wrote:

>and you get an interface where you can change such settings.

ok

changed to individual digest mode, and replying directly
(hushmail default of 'reply' is to individual user and cc to list)

hope it works,

if not, any other suggestions to try in hushmail?

TIA

vedaal


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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Peter Lebbing]

On 27/06/12 17:14, Brad Rogers wrote:
> Sadly, with mailman, unsubbing and resubbing is the only way for a
> regular user to change their subscription format.

Having switched from digest to individual message mode myself about a year ago,
I can tell you you are mistaken. I did it succesfully in the options web
interface as described in my other mail.

Peter.

-- 
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Peter Lebbing]

On 27/06/12 16:30, ved...@nym.hush.com wrote:
> btw,
> how do I change from 'digest-mode' to 'individual-list mode'?

Go to , enter your e-mail
address and password you subscribed with, and you get an interface where you can
change such settings.

For future reference, that URL is in the headers of every mail you get from the
list, btw.

HTH,

Peter.

-- 
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt

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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:30:30 -0400
ved...@nym.hush.com wrote:

Hello ved...@nym.hush.com,

Unfortunately, as you suspected, the message I'm replying to did break
threading.  It's Hushmail that's at fault, I believe.

>does it require unsubscribing and re-subscribing,
>or is there an easier way?

Sadly, with mailman, unsubbing and resubbing is the only way for a
regular user to change their subscription format.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
Go away, come back, go away, come back
Leave Me Alone (I'm Lonely) - P!nk


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Re: ideal.dll // fixing thread breaking

[vedaal]

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:33:38 -0400 Aaron Toponce 
 wrote:

>On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 08:44:11PM +0200, Werner Koch wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 20:12, aaron.topo...@gmail.com said:
>> > 
So, if >Thus, the reason I began with 'if'. :)

Am using Hushmail (have been using it since it came out) and am 
replying to the above gnupg message to try to see how to fix the 
'thread-breaking' problem.

I get the gnupg as a 'digest', and as an individual e-mail when the 
poster cc's me.

This post is currently a reply to the original poster and cc'd to 
the list.

I hope it does * not* break the thread, but am afraid it probably 
will.

The only fix I can think of, is to get the gnupg posts as 
individual e-mails, not as a digest, and reply to them.

If anyone has an idea of how to fix it, am willing to try.

btw,
how do I change from 'digest-mode' to 'individual-list mode'?

does it require unsubscribing and re-subscribing,
or is there an easier way?

Thanks,

vedaal


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