Re: GNUstep, Google Summer of Code, and an idea
Am 28.03.2011 um 11:52 schrieb David Chisnall: Thanks Fred, Projects that I'd be interested in mentoring: - Porting GNUstep to the browser. I committed an Objective-C to JavaScript compiler to Étoilé svn over the weekend. Many GNUstep classes should work as-is, some will want reimplementing wrapping their JavaScript equivalents (e.g. GSDictionary, GSString, GSArray), and the drawing-related classes will need tweaking to draw on a canvas. The final step would be implementing DO-over-WebSocket, so you can run view and maybe controller classes in the browser, model classes on the server, and have stuff Just Work™ Hi David and everybody else, today a co-worker of mine brought the Cappucino-Project to my attention. http://cappuccino.org/ is a JavaScript based Web-Framework which basically implements the Cocoa-API using Objective-J which is a funky JavaScript dialect modeled after Objective-C but implemented in JavaScript itself (it sits on top so to say. While I consider programming in Objective-J itself rather weird the existence of such a framework only points out the importance of David's idea. The world™ seems to be in need of viable web toolkits! And I like the GWT (Google Web Toolkit)-like approach of David of compiling to JavaScript better than writing in Objective-J which would IMHO only feasible for people already living in the JavaScript-Land. Those people – on the other hand – know the Cocoa API very rarely. So I consider this an important project for GNUstep even if we don't find a student for this (which means we need to implement this ourselves). cheers, Lars ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: GNUstep, Google Summer of Code, and an idea
Hi Lars, On 4 Apr 2011, at 22:46, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote: today a co-worker of mine brought the Cappucino-Project to my attention. http://cappuccino.org/ is a JavaScript based Web-Framework which basically implements the Cocoa-API using Objective-J which is a funky JavaScript dialect modeled after Objective-C but implemented in JavaScript itself (it sits on top so to say. I've seen Cappucino before, and in part it was the inspiration for this project. I don't really like their Objective-J language, so much though, because it is just different enough from Objective-C that the differences bite you. It produces some really beautiful output though, and we did consider using some of their code for web apps made with Étoilé (they actually use some GNUstep code - at least according to their documentation, I've not looked at their code much), but I'm too lazy to write view classes in two languages. While I consider programming in Objective-J itself rather weird the existence of such a framework only points out the importance of David's idea. The world™ seems to be in need of viable web toolkits! Absolutely. There are only a few thousand. Definitely one more is needed! And I like the GWT (Google Web Toolkit)-like approach of David of compiling to JavaScript better than writing in Objective-J which would IMHO only feasible for people already living in the JavaScript-Land. Those people – on the other hand – know the Cocoa API very rarely. It would also be nice if we could use the same thing with our UIKit implementation (when it exists) - compile it for the web, and let people turn iPhone apps into web apps with a simple recompile. So I consider this an important project for GNUstep even if we don't find a student for this (which means we need to implement this ourselves). The code is in trunk/Languages/ObjC2JS in étoilé svn currently, for anyone who wants to play with it. In the test directory, you will find the JavaScript run-time support code (implements the C memory model and the Objective-C object model in terms of JavaScript), along with some .m files that contain tests (which all work, for me at least). There is also a jstest.html. This includes all of the run-time support scripts and jstest.js, then calls the main() function. To test one of the files, just compile it to jstest.m and open this html file with your browser (tested with FireFox 4 - should also work with Chrome and the WebKit nightly builds[1]). All of the bits of C that I have tested work, with three exceptions: - 64-bit integers don't work, and aren't high up my todo list (ObjC2JS uses an ILP32 model) - Casting integers to pointers does not work (although pointer arithmetic does, as does casting pointers to integers). This is basically impossible in JavaScript, so I have no plans to implement it. - Bitfields. These are horrible, but GNUstep uses them all over the place, so I'll probably get around to it soon. My next step is to implement some of the libc functions that we need (as wrappers around their JavaScript equivalents, or as stubs), and add some low-level classes like JSString, JSArray, JSDictionary as wrappers around JavaScript objects, so that we can use their abstract superclasses from GNUstep directly. I also want to add either an implementation of -back, or an implementation of CoreGraphics + some event handling using the canvas tag. We can probably implement CoreAnimation quite easily, since canvas elements themselves are effectively layers, and can be animated with a variety of techniques. There are also a few things I need to add in the compiler. Declared properties as lvalues in unary and binary operations is currently broken (e.g. a.b++; or a.b += 2, where a is an object and b is a property) and exceptions are not implemented (these are trivial to do, wrapping JavaScript exceptions). I probably won't bother with C++ support, because it is a horrible language, unless someone wants to pay me a lot of money for it. Anyway, my slightly rambling point is that I plan on spending some time working on this, and patches are always welcome... David [1] I use some JavaScript stuff to implement the C object model that are added for WebGL. It's possible to implement (slow) versions of these in pure JavaScript, which I'll probably do at some point if I need compatibility with other browsers. ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: GNUstep, Google Summer of Code, and an idea
Robert, I don't think they're inactive at all. I've seen plenty of posts from them on my google Buzz about Cappuccino and things being done with it. Don't assume it's Dead because there haven't been changes to the website. This is the same mistake people make with GNUstep. I believe that they were on FLOSS Weekly recently and talked about new developments. They were recently acquired by Motorola. GC On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 8:43 PM, Robert Slover rjslo...@me.com wrote: The guys doing the Objective-J/Cappucino/280-North stuff just seem to have disappeared. No activity on any of those web sites in over a year. These tools were starting to look really great, too. Did anyone see the 'Atlas' Web-GUI Builder Demo?: http://280atlas.com/what.php A web-based 'back' implementation this smooth for GNUStep would be an awesome tool. --Robert On Apr 4, 2011, at 6:42 PM, David Chisnall wrote: Hi Lars, On 4 Apr 2011, at 22:46, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote: today a co-worker of mine brought the Cappucino-Project to my attention. http://cappuccino.org/ is a JavaScript based Web-Framework which basically implements the Cocoa-API using Objective-J which is a funky JavaScript dialect modeled after Objective-C but implemented in JavaScript itself (it sits on top so to say. I've seen Cappucino before, and in part it was the inspiration for this project. I don't really like their Objective-J language, so much though, because it is just different enough from Objective-C that the differences bite you. It produces some really beautiful output though, and we did consider using some of their code for web apps made with Étoilé (they actually use some GNUstep code - at least according to their documentation, I've not looked at their code much), but I'm too lazy to write view classes in two languages. While I consider programming in Objective-J itself rather weird the existence of such a framework only points out the importance of David's idea. The world™ seems to be in need of viable web toolkits! Absolutely. There are only a few thousand. Definitely one more is needed! And I like the GWT (Google Web Toolkit)-like approach of David of compiling to JavaScript better than writing in Objective-J which would IMHO only feasible for people already living in the JavaScript-Land. Those people – on the other hand – know the Cocoa API very rarely. It would also be nice if we could use the same thing with our UIKit implementation (when it exists) - compile it for the web, and let people turn iPhone apps into web apps with a simple recompile. So I consider this an important project for GNUstep even if we don't find a student for this (which means we need to implement this ourselves). The code is in trunk/Languages/ObjC2JS in étoilé svn currently, for anyone who wants to play with it. In the test directory, you will find the JavaScript run-time support code (implements the C memory model and the Objective-C object model in terms of JavaScript), along with some .m files that contain tests (which all work, for me at least). There is also a jstest.html. This includes all of the run-time support scripts and jstest.js, then calls the main() function. To test one of the files, just compile it to jstest.m and open this html file with your browser (tested with FireFox 4 - should also work with Chrome and the WebKit nightly builds[1]). All of the bits of C that I have tested work, with three exceptions: - 64-bit integers don't work, and aren't high up my todo list (ObjC2JS uses an ILP32 model) - Casting integers to pointers does not work (although pointer arithmetic does, as does casting pointers to integers). This is basically impossible in JavaScript, so I have no plans to implement it. - Bitfields. These are horrible, but GNUstep uses them all over the place, so I'll probably get around to it soon. My next step is to implement some of the libc functions that we need (as wrappers around their JavaScript equivalents, or as stubs), and add some low-level classes like JSString, JSArray, JSDictionary as wrappers around JavaScript objects, so that we can use their abstract superclasses from GNUstep directly. I also want to add either an implementation of -back, or an implementation of CoreGraphics + some event handling using the canvas tag. We can probably implement CoreAnimation quite easily, since canvas elements themselves are effectively layers, and can be animated with a variety of techniques. There are also a few things I need to add in the compiler. Declared properties as lvalues in unary and binary operations is currently broken (e.g. a.b++; or a.b += 2, where a is an object and b is a property) and exceptions are not implemented (these are trivial to do, wrapping JavaScript exceptions). I probably won't bother with C++ support, because it is a horrible language, unless someone wants to pay
Re: GNUstep, Google Summer of Code, and an idea
On 22.03.2011 15:02, Adam Fedor wrote: On Mar 21, 2011, at 3:56 PM, Fred Kiefer wrote: On 20.03.2011 20:46, Denis Washington wrote: I have seen that the GNU project has been accepted for this year's Google Summer of Code, but the ideas list does not list anything related to GNUstep. Does that mean that the GNUstep project will not mentor any students? He is right, we already are rather late in the GSoC time line[1] and we didn't even contact the GNU people [2] and told them that we want to participate. I think Adam sorted that our last year. Maybe it still isn't to late to apply with GNU? Anybody willing to contact them? Greg, Adam, Lars? I may not be the best person for that this year, having stolen half the GNU dinner reservation at FOSDEM :-) Sorry, I though some one else was going to handle it. I'm on vacation now so it would be hard for me. But it should be relatively easy to find the GNU GSoC administrator on the GSoC site and contact them about it. After Adam and Lars don't have time for this (And Greg didn't even reply), I send a short mail to the GNU team that we would like to participate under their umbrella. Maybe this still works out. I also set up a page in our wiki for GSoC 2011 http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/Summer_Of_Code_2011. This is currently mostly a copy from last years page. Could everybody please join in an update this page as well as the page with the general ideas for GSoC? Fred ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: GNUstep, Google Summer of Code, and an idea
On Mar 21, 2011, at 3:56 PM, Fred Kiefer wrote: On 20.03.2011 20:46, Denis Washington wrote: I have seen that the GNU project has been accepted for this year's Google Summer of Code, but the ideas list does not list anything related to GNUstep. Does that mean that the GNUstep project will not mentor any students? He is right, we already are rather late in the GSoC time line[1] and we didn't even contact the GNU people [2] and told them that we want to participate. I think Adam sorted that our last year. Maybe it still isn't to late to apply with GNU? Anybody willing to contact them? Greg, Adam, Lars? I may not be the best person for that this year, having stolen half the GNU dinner reservation at FOSDEM :-) Sorry, I though some one else was going to handle it. I'm on vacation now so it would be hard for me. But it should be relatively easy to find the GNU GSoC administrator on the GSoC site and contact them about it. ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: GNUstep, Google Summer of Code, and an idea
On 20.03.2011 20:46, Denis Washington wrote: I have seen that the GNU project has been accepted for this year's Google Summer of Code, but the ideas list does not list anything related to GNUstep. Does that mean that the GNUstep project will not mentor any students? He is right, we already are rather late in the GSoC time line[1] and we didn't even contact the GNU people [2] and told them that we want to participate. I think Adam sorted that our last year. Maybe it still isn't to late to apply with GNU? Anybody willing to contact them? Greg, Adam, Lars? I may not be the best person for that this year, having stolen half the GNU dinner reservation at FOSDEM :-) Next we will have to come up with a list of proposed projects. For this we may just reuse the list from last year [3]. And perhaps add the implementation of UIKit. As for mentors, we may again reuse last year's list [4]. David already stated that he is willing to do it again and I hope to find time to do so as well. We should try to have plenty of mentors and assign the one that is best suited for the task. Not sure whether lasts years Google SoC accounts will still work or if the mentors all need to sign up again. Cheers Fred [1] http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/timeline [2] http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/timeline [3] http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/Summer_Of_Code_Ideas [4] http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/Summer_Of_Code_2010 ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: GNUstep, Google Summer of Code, and an idea
Am 21.03.2011 um 22:56 schrieb Fred Kiefer: On 20.03.2011 20:46, Denis Washington wrote: I have seen that the GNU project has been accepted for this year's Google Summer of Code, but the ideas list does not list anything related to GNUstep. Does that mean that the GNUstep project will not mentor any students? He is right, we already are rather late in the GSoC time line[1] and we didn't even contact the GNU people [2] and told them that we want to participate. I think Adam sorted that our last year. Maybe it still isn't to late to apply with GNU? Anybody willing to contact them? Greg, Adam, Lars? Sorry, not me this time, I am currently a bit busy. I may not be the best person for that this year, having stolen half the GNU dinner reservation at FOSDEM :-) Next we will have to come up with a list of proposed projects. For this we may just reuse the list from last year [3]. And perhaps add the implementation of UIKit. As for mentors, we may again reuse last year's list [4]. David already stated that he is willing to do it again and I hope to find time to do so as well. We should try to have plenty of mentors and assign the one that is best suited for the task. Not sure whether lasts years Google SoC accounts will still work or if the mentors all need to sign up again. Cheers Fred [1] http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/timeline [2] http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/timeline [3] http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/Summer_Of_Code_Ideas [4] http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/Summer_Of_Code_2010 ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev cheers, Lars ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
