[Goanet]Goanet digest, Vol 1 #758 - 15 msgs

[yhs]

I am a Pakistani goan and speak very little conkanim but do not know how to
read the goan language. Is there a way for translation of the same for
people who do not know how to read??

Thanks
Theresa


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RE: [Goanet]Re: Christians wanting things the easy way...

[Bernado Colaco]

Dear Freddy,

True that there are more bharatis speaking English
than the Brits. But in reality do they speak English?
What yaar you want me to sign for the Booker Prize
when I can not spell my own name?

B. Colaco



 wrote: > Hi Bharati Colaco: Sorry to disappoint you,
but
> today there are more 
> Bharati speakers of English than in the whole of the
> mother country -- 
> i.e. the United Kingdom, where you sometimes claim
> to reside.
> 
> While we have been obsessed with our
> backward-looking mentality, a whole 
> lot of "Bharatis" have picked up excellent English.
> When can we hope for a 
> Goan vying for the Booker Prize? Would you like to
> give the lead ;-) FN
> 
>


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RE: [Goanet]Re: Christians wanting things the easy way...

[Bernado Colaco]

 > 
> Dear Senhor Bernardo,
> 
> If so few "bharatis" have risen to the top of the
> English-speaking technological and literary ladder,
> you may want to jump on the bandwagon yourself and
> take the time to study the "hinglish" that's getting
> them places...  
> Filomena

Qda. Dona Filomena,

I do not need to get to places. Since the age of 35 I
have found the place called retirement. I am now
enjoying the fruits of my pluckings.

B. Colaco

BCom; BSc, Dip Admin Mgt; Btec Multimedia Technology;
C&G Flexo Printing; HP Laser Jet Engineer; Polycom
Video Conferencing Engineer; IrisPrint 4Up Engineer;
Best Colour RIP Support; Kodak Rainbow Series Hardware
and Software Support.


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[Goanet]Re: information on Goa, Goa's liberation, Hindus, Christians etc

[The Goan Forum]

--- ariana lopes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Dear TGF:

I am a student in my final year of the International
Baccalaureate Program in my high school. As part of
this program I write an extended research paper on a
subject of my choice. 

My paper is on the liberation of Goa. 

Specifically, I want to talk about the impact of
colonialism on the way people self-identify and based
on this why the Goan Christians did not feel it was a
liberation. (why they did not want to become part of
India). 

I chose this topic because my grandfather is Goan and
I always found his strong objection to being called
Indian interesting, and wanted to find out more about
Goa's history. I have been reading the articles on
your site and they are very helpful, but I wonder if
you could recommend other sources specific to my
paper. 

Also, I sometimes am confused as to the credentials of

the authors and the academic validity - that is,
whether they were written solely as opinion pieces, or
as academic pieces. 

If you could provide me with some further information
I would greatly appreciate it.

Specifically, could you help me with a few questions
(if possible)

Were the religious conversions in Goa under the
Portuguese forced? and were they directed toward the
upper class Goans, or more appealing to the lower 
class (as I read once)?

Are there figures available on the number of Goan
Christians who were involved in an independence
campaign, and those who  left Goa after 1961?
Thank you very much!

Ariana Lopes


Dear Ariana,

The articles on The Goan Forum are personal opinions.
Having said that, you will do well to remember that
History by Historians is also subject to personal
biases, agendae, chips(on shoulders) and axes(to
grind).

So, all I can advise you to do - is to read widely;
and then form an opinion.

On a personal note I'd say that we at TGF value ALL
shades of opinion. 

 

Now - to your questions

question 1. 

answer 1: Not so sure that the above assumption is
correct. In any event, we will never know the real
answer to the question of IF "what happened post 1961"
was what Goans really wanted. The Indian Prime
Minister Nehru was NOT really sure. That might
probably explain why his Congress Government refused
to have a plebiscite at the time.

Please refer to the following articles

http://www.colaco.net/1/letdown.htm
The Big Let Down 

http://www.colaco.net/1/goa1964a.htm
Goa: An African writer's perspective

any parallel with the 21st Century?
http://www.colaco.net/1/HarderTalk1961a.htm

a new article just posted
http://www.colaco.net/1/JdAN-Quenim.htm


Now...I hope you are NOT of the blanket Opinion that
Goan Hindus wanted merger with India & Goan Catholics
wanted to be with Portugal.

Revision apart, the facts speak for themselves. As far
as one can decipher, Most Goans (especially the
intellectual ones) were fed up with the dictatorship
of Salazar. Incidentaly, so were the Portuguese - as
events would further reveal.

Besides that - a number of Hindu Goan Freedom Fighters
got left Goa for good post 1961 & migrated (of all the
places) to Portugal !

The advice one can give you is to NOT look at it as a
Hindu-Christian issue. We are ALL Goans. Religion is a
tool used by Politicians to divide us. Hopefully, we
will not fall into that trap.


Question 2: 

Answer 2: In a great number of instances, the answer
is Yes. A good example of the futility of this forced
conversion is found in the villages of Carambolim and
Mandur (Old Goa or the "Goa" of old).

Many Hindus carried Christian names and they have
reverted back to Hinduism( or at least Hindu names
after 1961).

A rapid survey of post 1961 will reveal that there
hasn't been any signifiant reversal from Catholicism
back to Hinduism. That fact speaks for itself.

As far as , it is best to be
honest about the whole matter and call it CASTE.

Of course, the caste system and Catholicism are
incompatiblebut Goan Catholics even today live the
lie of the Caste System they learnt from their Hindu
ancestors.

It is a shame, but one which illustrates that Goans of
all classes (castes) exist(were converted) into
Catholicism.

Hopefully, this post will assist you towards an
understanding of the complexity of Politics and Power,
as well as the involvement of Religion as a means to
an end.

It happened in the area we know now as Goa, during the
thousands of years of Goa's existence - even the 451
years of Portuguese rule. It is happening TODAY.

And like every era - we have ostriches with their
heads buried in the sand.

Footnote: Hopefully Goan Christians and Hindus will
see the writing on the wall and unite. Otherwise, Goa
and Goan culture will be wiped out - once again by the
wind from the immediate EAST.

just like it happened 452 years ago!

good wishes

jose colaco
for TGF




=
Recommended Goan Sites in Cyberspace 

Goa-World at http://www.goa-world.net, TGF is at http://www.colaco.net

The Goan Forum d- list is at  http://www.egroups.com/groups/goa-goans

To

[Goanet]Important Day

[Gilbert Lawrence]

Today January 16th is:
Asmitai Dis.
 
Blessed Joseph Vaz feast - Patron of Goa and Daman and Sri Lanka.

We hope Goans, especially in the Diaspora, will celebrate these events
in their towns and clubs and review the historical and cultural
significance of these two events. This weekend will be a good
opportunity to discuss these two events with our children, grandchildren
- the next generation of Goans.
Regards, Gilbert


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[Goanet]New Goa Archbishop!

[Gabe Menezes]

VATICAN CITY, JAN 16, 2004 )

 - The Holy Father Appointed Bishop Filipe Neri Antonio Sebtastiao do
Rosario Ferrao, auxiliary of Goa e Damao, India as archbishop of the same
archdiocese (area 4,194, population 1,502,057, Catholics 450,130, priests
619, religious 1,391) in India, with the title of Patriarch "ad honorem" of
the West Indies. The archbishop-elect succeeds Archbishop Raul Nicolau
Gonsalves, whose resignation to the pastoral care of this archdiocese was
accepted by the Holy Father for having reached the age limit.

RESPONSE: I apologize to him and the Holy Father immediately promotes him!

I have friends in high places.

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes




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[Goanet]Feast of Bl. Joseph Vaz

[Gabe Menezes]

- Original Message - 
From: "Filomena Giese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 2:19 PM
Subject: [Goanet]Feast of Bl. Joseph Vaz


> Goans should take note of the contrast in speed of
> these processes not only for the much-discussed rushed
> beatification of the European Mother Teresa, but of
> other leading European figures.



> In 1998, Pope John Paul II declared Robert Schuman an
> "extraordinarily competent statesman, who served the
> people." Theologically more important, however, the
> pontiff named Schuman an "authentic Catholic" and "an
> eternal example to all those responsible for the
> construction of Europe."


RESPONSE:

Rightly Goans and indeed all non whites should be peeved off with the
attitude taken by the powers in Rome and within the Catholic heirarchy. It
is sad that this sort of discrimination still goes on. The point is that the
authorities have set aside the fact that Jesus Christ was a dark skinned
person. They may make a saint or two out of the likes of the founder of the
European Union. how many will actually pray to these so called saints
for intercession?

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes



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Re: [Goanet]Re: Confusion, conflict and faith

[Ivo Souza]

From: "Santosh Helekar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Confused people can become great scientists. Newton was famously
> confused and wrong about absolute motion and absolute rest, and
> Einstein was the same about quantum mechanics.
 Even if we concede that Newton and Einstein were confused in their own
theories, this confusion does not come from their faith.
Ivo

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Re: Confusion, conflict and faith


> In a message dated 1/14/2004 1:50:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >
> >There have been scientists among the Christian monks, who have taken
> >science to great heights.
> >
>
> Confused people can become great scientists. Newton was famously
> confused and wrong about absolute motion and absolute rest, and
> Einstein was the same about quantum mechanics.
>
> >
> >They have not been confused neither in science nor in their Christian
> >faith.
> >
>
> I don't know what is meant by being confused in faith. But if you tell
> me the names of these monks, I will tell you how they were confused in
> Science.
>
> >
> >There is no conflict between science and Christian faith.
> >
>
> What is the difference between humans and animals according to the
> Christian faith? What is the Christian view on exorcism in the
> treatment of mental illness? What is homosexuality according to the
> Christian faith? Can a wooden statue start miraculously crying tears
> of blood according to the Christian faith? Does Christian faith not
> necessitate the violation of the laws of thermodynamics from time to
> time? I submit to you that in each of these cases Science is in direct
> conflict with the Christian faith.
>
> >
> > Do we have hard evidence in all realms of human existence?
> >
>
> In Science we do. Hard evidence is the foundation of modern science.
>
> >
> >Faith is one of the sources of knowledge.
> >
>
> Not knowledge about the natural world!
>
> Faith can tell us nothing about the origin, structure and operation of
> the universe, and the living organisms that inhabit it. It cannot tell
> us with any degree of certainty whether the earth is flat or
> spheroidal, whether it moves round the sun or is fixed, whether man
> suddenly appeared on it fully formed or evolved from unicellular
> organisms, whether lightning is electrical discharge or the wrath of
> God, whether small pox is caused by a virus or because of the curse of
> a Goddess, whether an eclipse is an engulfment of a heavenly creature
> by a giant or a planetary occlusion,and so on.
>
> >
> >To say that faith should not have a place in our life is an
> >epistemological blunder.
> >
>
> Faith has a role to play in the private lives of individuals. It is
> also of use in the psychological counseling of people who depend on
> it. It does not have any epistemological role in understanding the
> natural world.
>
> >
> >What is faith for you?
> >
>
> For me it is a part of my culture, history and tradition.
>
> >
> >To say that there is no soul, no God, no creation also belong to the
> >realm of faith...
> >
>
> Not if these things are shown to be ontologically unnecessary. It is
> an ontological blunder to say otherwise. And an ontological blunder is
> far worse than an epistemological one. People have lost their lives
> from commiting an ontological blunder. If every single natural
> phenomenon can be explained without invoking any of these entities or
> processes, reason demands that we leave them out of the description of
> the natural world. Thus spoke a Christian monk, although he did not
> say it exactly in this context. His name was William of Occam. The
> Pope excommunicated him because he said something else that was in
> conflict with the Christian faith. Occam's razor is a handy tool of
> Science.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Santosh
>
>
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Re: [Goanet] St. Francis Xavier

[Gilbert Lawrence]

Response:
I hate to write this post in response to Fred- a person whom I have an
enormous respect. But is the following post of Fred an analysis of Goa's
history or is it an opinion column?
Perhaps Fred is being defensive about not knowing the details of the
true facts. Can you provide us (the GoaNet readers) the letter(s)
(translation) of SFX asking Rome to implement the inquisition in Goa?
This would be especially useful for the GoaNetters who do not reside Goa
and do not have access to this document.

As a journalist in Goa, Fred and others should be familiar what the Pope
could and could not do in the Portuguese colonies (compared to British
colonies). With the Padrado arrangement, even the Pope's bull could not
be implemented in the Portuguese colonies. And Goa's bishops were
appointed by the Pope after the individual was selected by the
Portuguese crown. 

As Goan Catholics we were victims of the Portuguese inquisition and the
despair of Portuguese colonial rule. We do not want to be the victims
the third time by making the sufferers the offenders. I am waiting for
the specific verifications that "great names (SFX) have a positive and
negative side to themselves". Thanks. Gilbert

Fredercik Noronha:
Seems like a lot of defensiveness in coming to grips with the past. 
Yes, the Inquisition did come after the death of Francis Xavier. But
it's 
also true that he asked Rome to implement it here. 
(This is history. How we interprete it today also has a lot to do with
our 
own assumptions.) 
Yes, religious intolerance flowed from the guns of the Portuguese
rulers. 
But it's also true that they did it using religion as a justification, 
with the tacit or implied support of the religious authorities of that 
time. 
Being defensive about the embarassing aspects of the past isn't going to

help us come to grips with our history. Neither is a policy of
suggesting 
that your-religion-is-more-flawed-than-mine.
Let's call a spade a spade, accept that even great names have a positive

and negative side to themselves, and ... move on. FN





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[Goanet]Inquisition and SFX

[Gilbert Lawrence]

Response from Gilbert:
To the extent that I do not like the response to every line (often used
on the net, as it reflects a tit for tat answer), I will use it to high
light many of the valid points made by Teotonio R. De Souza to my post.

From: "Teotonio R. de Souza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Goa Research Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet]Re: Inquisition and SFX

Teotonio: From what I have seen over time, GoaNet cannot replace class
room, neither long years of research and study. It can serve to call
attention to some issues and little more. 

Response: No body suggests that GoaNet should replace the class room or
years of research. However the net does provide an opportunity to the
teachers and researchers to test their interpretations with others who
perhaps may not be so 'like-minded' and to inform those who may have
misconceptions of history. This is an open dialogue for others to learn
the two perspectives.

Teotonio: The themes of Inquisition and SFX require vast reading and
thorough familiarity with a vast bibliography and documentation. Those
who think that placing documents on-line (how many?) would solve the
controversies are wrong. Historians know better that documents do not
speak for themselves. They need to be interpreted in the context in
which they were produced, and that requires lots of more knowledge than
what few documents may provide.

Response: Fully agree!  Hence a lot of 'history' depends of the bias and
prejudice of the interpreter/historian/narrator/translator.

Teotonio: It is also important that those who want to discuss seriously
a theme, keep abreast of new research findings and publications. How
many of those talking on the Goanet have read the recent publications,
say for instance, of Ines Zupanev or Ana Cannas da Cunha? This last
named author has recently published new documentation to prove that
Inquisition was already at work in Portuguese India much before 1560.
Hence, it did not wait for the
*official* establishment of it to start its work.  There were already
cases running against the cripto-Jews who had been running away from
Portuguese Inquisition in Portugal and seeking refuge in *distant* India
from 1536 onwards on a big scale. Hence, the concern of SFX and several
other important Jesuits of the time, such as Gaspar Barzeo, Baltazar
Dias, Antonio Quadrso, Belchior Nunes Barreto, Gonçalo Silveira, etc. 

Response: The above point you make is the most telling. You merge
individual /private behavior with official policy. You talk of "cases
against the cripto-Jews.. and seeking refuge in India."  There are cases
of Portuguese abuse of native Goan catholics which I pointed out and
this was of great concern of SFX and others. So how could "SFX and
several other important Jesuits of the time" be the instigators to
introduce the Inquisition? 

Teotonio: As to the point made below that SFX was busy moving about and
that after the first three years was at  places far away from India,  we
should not forget that he remained Jesuit superior responsible for
everything in the East. Even just before he left on his last voyage to
China he left detailed instructions to Fr. Gaspar Barzeo on how he
should run the show during his absence from India. 

Response: The above paragraph from one considered today's expert on
Portuguese history in Goa is most telling of what is wrong. SFX
"remained Jesuit superior responsible for everything in the East". So
the guy was in 1545 in Japan and was RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING going on
in GOA AND IN THE WHOLE OF THE EAST. And all of this with communications
by hand-written letters carried by a sail boat. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE
THAT IS POSSIBLE? From my limited reading of SFX and the local Jesuit
superior there may have even been a fall-out between the two.

Teotonio: These instructions make a very interesting reading, including
what SFX thought of women.
Response: Was this any different from what was the attitude of the time?
When you and I grew up, corporal punishment was considered routine in
home and school. Now it can lead to criminal charges. You are
interpreting thoughts and actions of one epoch with another. In the
course of that analysis we consider that version detestable and ours as
"progressive" concepts. Only an analysis of society of 1545 and 2004
about a hundred years from now will provide the answer.

Final Thoughts: If SFX was so in love with Goa and with 'the
Inquisition' and so power-hungry, why would he leave Goa and go to
places where there were no creature-comforts and where the Portuguese
were not in power?  If SFX thought that the inquisition (which you claim
existed at the time) and Portuguese power would solve his problems of
evangelization, why did he leave the Portuguese territories? Regards, GL


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[Goanet]Web Sites for Goa Parishes

[Chris Farias]

I'd like to take this opportunity to let you all know that a free web site
capability is available for all parishes to use.  The site is called
www.CatholicParishes.net.  Parishes from India, US, UK, and the Solomon
Islands are already using this very useful site.

In Goa, Our Lady of Grace, Margao has its web site with Catholic Parishes.
Check out www.CatholicParishes.net/IN/GOA/OurLadyOfGrace.

Parishes can also have their own domain name - for example, check out
www.SaintCornelius.org.

Why get left behind?  Anyone who can type and who is authorized with a login
and password can update a parish site.  So please spread the word so that as
many parishes as possible can take advantage of this facility.

To learn more, please reply to this email or email
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank you!

Sincerely,

Chris Farias

Work: 610-565-7481
Cell: 610-864-8674
http://www.CatholicParishes.net
Web Technology for the Parish in the New Millenium!





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Re: [Goanet]Re: Confusion, conflict and faith

[Ivo Souza]

From: "Santosh Helekar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Faith can tell us nothing about the origin, structure and operation of
> the universe, and the living organisms that inhabit it. It cannot tell
> us with any degree of certainty whether the earth is flat or
> spheroidal, whether it moves round the sun or is fixed, whether man
> suddenly appeared on it fully formed or evolved from unicellular
> organisms, whether lightning is electrical discharge or the wrath of
> God, whether small pox is caused by a virus or because of the curse of
> a Goddess, whether an eclipse is an engulfment of a heavenly creature
> by a giant or a planetary occlusion,and so on.

Bible does not teach us about the scientific constitution of the world (what
is described in it comes from that time and is conditioned by it), but it
teaches us that God is the Creator. Bible is not a scientific book teaching
us science, but it teaches us God's plan for humanity.

What is the Christian view on exorcism in the
> treatment of mental illness?
Mental illness is an illness and has to be medically treated. Prayer can
help the ill, but it cannot substitute the normal treatment. Illnesses can
be 'miraculously' cured, what will be attested to by physicians who follow
the case--if the cure was extraordinary, beyond the medical expectations...


What is homosexuality according to the
> Christian faith?

It is against the human nature. The homosexual is sickly, he should be
helped. But one cannot approve of homosexuality.

Can a wooden statue start miraculously crying tears
> of blood according to the Christian faith?

If it is scientifically proven that those "tears of blood" are coming from
Christ, yes. How can you exclude it, provided that there is scientific
evidence, on which you are harping so much? There are "miracles" attested by
physicians as unexplainable through medical science. They are signs of God's
love...

Does Christian faith not
> necessitate the violation of the laws of thermodynamics from time to
> time?

In what cases?

I submit to you that in each of these cases Science is in direct
> conflict with the Christian faith.

How?

>>Hard evidence is the foundation of modern science.

Science is not only empirical. There are also spiritual sciences.
Our knowledge is not only about the natural world.

>It cannot tell whether lightning is electrical discharge or the wrath of
> God, whether small pox is caused by a virus or because of the curse of
> a Goddess, whether an eclipse is an engulfment of a heavenly creature
> by a giant or a planetary occlusion,and so on.

Bible does not teach us whether the earth is flat or spheroidal. It does not
want us to believe that lightning is the wrath of God, or that small pox is
caused by the curse of a "Goddess" (Bible does not accept goddess). Bible
does not contradict science.

>> Faith has a role to play in the private lives of individuals. It is
> also of use in the psychological counseling of people who depend on
> it.
Faith in God sustains not only individuals, but communities and nations.
Christian faith is rooted in the history of  God who has spoken to humanity.
People are not fools...

Ivo


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[Goanet]Re: [The Goan Forum d-list] Holy Father appoints Bishop Filipe Neri A.S. do Rosario Ferrao as Archbishop of Goa e Damao

[godfrey gonsalves]

Goans world over will have an ocassion to rejoice on
hearing the news of the elavation  of Auxiliary Bishop
of Goa & Daman diocese as the Archbishop of Goa
replacing His Grace, Archbishop Dr Raul Niclau
Gonsalves who had retired in June 2002 on attaining
the age of superannuation 75 years but continued in
office.

This indeed is a red letter day as 16th January,
reminds one of the Feast of Blessed Fr Jose Vaz of
Sancoale amd the day Goans cas their precious vote to
safeguard Union Territory status to Goa Daman and Diu
at the historic Opinion Poll this day in 1967.

It is hoped that the new appointee will make the
Catholic Church more vibrant dynamic and  face blodly
the challenges in the changed circumstances in the
country.

This writer pleads with the newly appointed Archbishop
to pursue  immediately the matter of intimation to the
Chief of Naval Staff and the Defence authorities 
about celebrating the Feast of Nossa Senhora de Brotas
Our Lady of Springs on 2nd February, 2004 at Anjediv
Island off  Canacona strictly as per the understanding
reached by the Goa Government and the Naval
authorities, 1987 ensuring also that all the faithful
will adhere to the security considerations and other
measures as his first onerous task given the illegal
ban imposed from May 2003 by the erstwhile Station
Commander Cmdr B. R, Rao Sea Bird project based on his
misrepresentation of facts to the Defence Minister Mr
George Fernandes that a dozen temples were shifted
from the Island, which is a blatant lie. 

Secondly the Archbishop should make an inventory of
all the land and other movable and immovable assets of
the Diocese of Goa & Daman with detailed documentation
and initiate measures to retrieve movable assets that
have gone out of hand clandestinely with the
intervention and assistance of the lay faithful.

Thirdly the Archbishop should revamp the entire
Pastoral Council and other bodies so that it inducts
fresh blood and gives representation to the lay people
representing each of the segments of the Diocese.

Fourth  the Catholic Church in Goa & Daman should put
in place immediately a network of effective
communication using the electronic media to
disseminate information and put up a brave front to
check populist fundamentalist propoganda that
threatens this tiny State which is a cauldron of
communal harmony.

We extend our support well wishes and seek Gods
guidance to pursue this agenda.

Godfrey J. I. Gonsalves
Borda margao Goa
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





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[Goanet]The real insult to Goans. bootleg!

[Gabe Menezes]

- Original Message - 
From: "Anthony Barretto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 5:01 PM
Subject: [Goanet]Here is the real insult to Goans.


> Irony. Irony. Irony. Not a word of protest from a
> single true-blooded Goan over what is really an insult
> to Goans.


> Every right thinking Goan should seek an apology from
> her for making such an irresponsible and derogatory
> statement.
>
> Tony.


RESPONSE:

Margaret Mascarenhas aint a Goan?

My own reading was that as a writer she used what one might term a writers
perogative and licence to term our Goa Feni as bootleg. As rightly pointed
out by Don Gilbert Lawrence, if duty isn't paid on Feni made at home which
is then resold it can rightly be termed as bootleg. Let's be honest, most of
the Feni drunk in Goa at home is of the bootleg variety. How many actually
go to the shop and purchase a bottle made at a commercial distillery? In
fact I might add that many a small and large Taverna sell bootleg Feni to
their customers. It maybe, just maybe that the quality is better or the
price is better - it is still bootleg, even if it's the finest one has ever
drunk like the ones produced in Siolim!


Cheers,

Gabru.




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Re: [Goanet]Re: Science and Religion Sangam (SRS) in Goa

[Ivo Souza]

From: "cornel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
As a humanist, I put man/woman at the centre of our
> existence...tell me how you have arrived at the seeming  certainty and
> faith which you project in your God fearing position?
Man is the crown of God's creation. God is the Creator and our loving,
compassionate Father. I am not in "God-fearing position".

Hasn't religion
> contributed significantly to endless unnecessary  animosity among  peoples
> of the world?

Religion proclaims only love. There cannot be hatred in the name of
religion. Love, forgive, be mature...

 Clearly, we need to respect each person's  right to a view about human
> existence etc but surely we humans have advanced well beyond so much utter
> rubbish as in the Bible upon which you seem to depend so heavily.

On the one hand, you say that we need to respect each person's right to a
view about human existence. But on the other hand, you call the biblical
view, which is considered by peoples from the world as God's Word,
"rubbish"... How do you reconcile these two contradictory statements of your
message?  Do you consider all those who rely upon Bible as fools?
If your personal reflection leads you to live without God, source of life,
please go ahead... I would like to know what sustains you in your struggle
for survival, for a better existence. Love of family? of a superior cause?
of God (called by any other name)?
Ivo

Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Re: Science and Religion Sangam (SRS) in Goa


> Dear Ivo,
> I am utterly puzzled by the fervour of your traditional beliefs about the
> existence of God etc. As a humanist, I put man/woman at the centre of our
> existence and I have arrived at this through much reading and much
searching
> of my intellect and conscience.
> Please can you tell me how you have arrived at the seeming  certainty and
> faith which you project in your God fearing position? Hasn't religion
> contributed significantly to endless unnecessary  animosity among  peoples

> of the world?
>
> Clearly, we need to respect each person's  right to a view about human
> existence etc but surely we humans have advanced well beyond so much utter
> rubbish as in the Bible upon which you seem to depend so heavily.
> Yours,
> In good faith,
> Cornel



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[Goanet]Holy Father appoints Bishop Filipe Neri A.S. do Rosario Ferrao as Archbishop of Goa e Damao

[Goa's PRIDE www.goa-world.com]

From: "Goa's PRIDE www.goa-world.com" 
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004


VATICAN CITY, JAN 16, 2004 (VIS)
 
 - The Holy Father Appointed Bishop Filipe Neri
Antonio Sebtastiao do Rosario Ferrao, auxiliary of Goa
e Damao, India as archbishop of the same archdiocese
(area 4,194, population 1,502,057, Catholics 450,130,
priests 619, religious 1,391) in India, with the title
of Patriarch "ad honorem" of the West Indies. The
archbishop-elect succeeds Archbishop Raul
Nicolau Gonsalves, whose resignation to the pastoral
care of this archdiocese was accepted by the Holy
Father for having reached the age limit.

 
Goa-World.Com owner, associate and all its
well-wishers, and its net affiliates take this
opportunity to join all Goans and the faithful to
congratulate the archbishop-elect.
(Gaspar Almeida & Ulysses Menezes)
www.goa-world.com
 


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[Goanet]Here is the real insult to Goans.

[Anthony Barretto]

Irony. Irony. Irony. Not a word of protest from a
single true-blooded Goan over what is really an insult
to Goans.
Some immigrant comes to Goa clamouring for perhaps
non-existing roots and calls what is rightly -- as
Cecil Pinto says -- the nectar of Gods bootleg. 
Ha! It's obvious. When some cloured foreign liquor
goes to their head they refuse to recognise their own.
Why should we own such 'Goans'.
Every right thinking Goan should seek an apology from
her for making such an irresponsible and derogatory
statement.

Tony.

 





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[Goanet]Goa United Soccer Club

[Viviana]

From Rodolfo, The Goa United Soccer Club



Goa United Soccer Club, is organizing the 2004 Carnaval Red & Black 
Dance Party in Maryland on 21st February.

Please check out the details at,

http://www.geocities.com/viva_goa_carnaval/invite.html

We all hope to see you there,

Organizers

Viva Goa Carnaval
us" Sweepstakes 
 



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[Goanet]Fw: [goa-research-net] COMMENT: Research does count (Brian Antao, PhD)

[cornel]

- Original Message - 
From: "cornel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [goa-research-net] COMMENT: Research does count (Brian Antao,
PhD)


> Frederick,
> Apropos the comments from Brian Antao and in the limited time I have right
> now, I'd like to say that as a university tutor in the UK, I had mature
> students  from India, including Goa, who were required to undertake degree
> qualifications all over again due to existing non recognition
qualification
> rules. Such non recognition rules, I hasten to add, varied from time to
> time, depending on the labour market, but they  tended to have a
significant
> demoralising effect on  graduates from India and  I personally found this
> very painful.
>
> My students from India, whether already  graduates, working on Masters or
> PhD work, and with excellent written English, found the UK system
difficult,
> until they grasped the idea that criticality was essential in the UK
system
> for most subject areas. Thus, from being used to learning for exams by
rote
> from one or possibly two prescribed textbooks, they were faced with a
large
> reading list and were required to criticise their selective reading in
> arriving at a considered view when addressing a set question in
contributory
> coursework. This they found very challenging, and initially, fell foul of
> plagiarism rules.
>
> They told me that what mattered in their earlier learning was the ability
to
> regurgitate, word for word, from books which were sometimes written by
their
> professors. They could not envisage questioning the 'wisdom' in books as
> they virtually saw this as sacred and correct. In contrast,  here we were
> telling them that no text was 'correct' as such, and only there to be
"taken
> apart metaphorically"  and especially, their tutors' published articles
and
> books, in an informed and considered way.
>
> The development of analytical skills as opposed to descriptive ones is
> essential on a first degree course in most Western countries, and not the
> accumulation of facts to be regurgitated. Our English/indigenous students
> also find this task challenging, and, believe it or not,  sometimes their
> English is terrible!
>
>  I am sure that change towards this orientation is fast entering Indian
> university education, particularly,  due to the challenge of
globalisation.
> I do want to add however,   that the better Indian graduates had developed
> analytical skills, notwithstanding  the traditional pedagogy underpinning
> their educational experience. However,  in  November 2000, when I
travelled
> around India, recruiting post-graduate students for UK universities,  I
> visited Goa and spoke to a group of Masters students at the University.
They
> seemed genuinly surprised when I spoke to them about how analytical skills
> were enhanced in UK university teaching/learning and  they  felt that the
UK
> requirement, when contrasted with theirs, was incredibly formidable.
>
> I am merely reporting my experience and not making a value judgement in
this
> post. However, it echoes some of the points which I noted, when I quickly
> skimmed through in Brian Antao's post.
> Cornel
>



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Re: [Goanet]Re: Confusion, conflict and faith

[Filomena Giese]

--- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




> 
> >
> >Faith is one of the sources of knowledge.
> >
> 
> Not knowledge about the natural world!
> 
> Faith can tell us nothing about the origin,
> structure and operation of
> the universe, and the living organisms that inhabit
> it. It cannot tell
> us with any degree of certainty whether the earth is
> flat or
> spheroidal, whether it moves round the sun or is
> fixed, whether man
> suddenly appeared on it fully formed or evolved from
> unicellular
> organisms, whether lightning is electrical discharge
> or the wrath of
> God, whether small pox is caused by a virus or
> because of the curse of
> a Goddess, whether an eclipse is an engulfment of a
> heavenly creature
> by a giant or a planetary occlusion,and so on.
> 
Santosh,
I have always agreed with you and with old or modern
scientists who say that religious faiths cannot
explain natural phenomena.  Scientific observation and
testing of these phenomena is the basis of the
scientific method.  Religious faith in leaders,
saints, miracles, gods, goddesses, even satanic powers
thrived in times when there was no explanation of
these phenomena.
Our generation requires a more developed spirituality
that looks inward at oneself and one's relation to
Nature and others.  I see no conflict between science
and this inward spiritual quest.  When one loves and
respects Nature and the material world instead of
looking at them as supernatural powers that control
us, one is moving ahead to a healthier psyche.
In your earlier post you wrote that "matter and energy
are indestructible" (or some similar words) and
interchangeable - it is the meaning of the Samkya
philosophy I think, that Prakriti (matter) and Purusha
(soul or energy) are inter-connected as creation that
we see. 
Filomena

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[Goanet]INDIAN HELL

[Gabe Menezes]

- Original Message - 
From: "SHAILESH GRACIAS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:45 PM
Subject: [Goanet]INDIAN HELL


> Marriage? http://www.bharatmatrimony.com/cgi-bin/bmclicks1.cgi?74 Join 
> BharatMatrimony.com and get married.

RESPONSE;


Now joining the BharatMatrimony.com and get married, that would be hell!

innit mate?

Cheers,

Gabru.







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RE: [Goanet]Re: Christians wanting things the easy way...

[Filomena Giese]

--- Bernado Colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> True Dona Filomena,
> 
> But the quantity of the masters of the English
> language is a drop. I hope their numbers will
> increase
> so that they can eliminate the rest of bharat from
> the
> abyss with their great qualities. Do you envisage
> this
> happening? 
> 
> Colaco

Dear Senhor Bernardo,

If so few "bharatis" have risen to the top of the
English-speaking technological and literary ladder,
you may want to jump on the bandwagon yourself and
take the time to study the "hinglish" that's getting
them places...  
Filomena
> 
> 
> 
>

> Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" 
> your friends today! Download Messenger Now 
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html
> 
>
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[Goanet]Feast of Bl. Joseph Vaz

[Filomena Giese]

As announced on Goanet, the Novena for the feast, and
presumably for the canonization, of our Goan Bl.
Joseph Vaz has been going on and is about to conclude
on Jan 16.  
This process of getting Goans to pray for his
beatification and canonization has been grinding along
since his death in 1711 and the start of his first
Cause in 1713.  But still no end in sight, even after
290 years.
Goans should take note of the contrast in speed of
these processes not only for the much-discussed rushed
beatification of the European Mother Teresa, but of
other leading European figures.   
Amazingly, one Founder of the European Union, Robert
Schumann is expected to be beatified next year only 40
years after his death, while another, Alcide De
Gasperi is also expected to be beatified in the near
future.  Yet another European figure, the last
Austro-Hungarian Emperor who died in 1922 is also
about to be beatified.  
Here are the relevant press releases on these
Beatifications.  
Filomena

Analysis: Blessed 'Father of Europe'
By Uwe Siemon-Netto
UPI Religion Editor

WASHINGTON, Sept. 12 (UPI) -- Within the next few
weeks, Pierre Raffin, the Catholic bishop of Metz in
Eastern France, will send an extraordinary stack of
files to the Vatican. It will contain the documents
required for the beatification of Robert Schuman, the
father of the European Union, who died 40 years ago
this month.

In 2005 or 2006, the pope is expected to pronounce
this French statesman, who was instrumental in ending
centuries of hatred between his country and Germany,
the "Blessed Robert." Within another decade, Schuman
could be canonized as saint.

In 1998, Pope John Paul II declared Robert Schuman an
"extraordinarily competent statesman, who served the
people." Theologically more important, however, the
pontiff named Schuman an "authentic Catholic" and "an
eternal example to all those responsible for the
construction of Europe."


Pastoral Letter of Bishops of Slovakia
CHRISTIAN ROOTS OF EUROPE

We learn from history that a consistently lived
Christianity is not only the way to holiness, but also
a way to advance and make closer the life of nations.
It is proved by the characters of the founders of the
united Europe: Robert Schuman, Konrad Adenauer and
Alcido De Gasperi5 who, starting from their Christian
conviction, asserted the ideal of reconciliation and
gradual unification of Europe, shocked by the terrible
events of World War II. Spiritual and civic virtues
which they brought into political life made them
recognized personalities, and, in case of Schuman and
De Gasperi the process of beatification has even been
started.

Vatican Paves Way for Austro-Hungary Saint 
Sat Dec 20, 2:52 PM ET

VATICAN CITY - The Vatican (news - web sites) on
Saturday attributed a miracle to the last emperor of
Austria-Hungary, paving the way for the eventual
beatification and sainthood of Charles I. 

Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II presided over the
ceremony, which was attended by some of Charles'
heirs. Beatification requires evidence of a miracle
after the person's death and is the last formal step
before possible sainthood. 

Charles I took the throne in 1916, during World War I,
and worked for peace as the Austro-Hungarian empire
neared its end. He abdicated at the end of the war in
1918 and died in Portugal in 1922 at age 34. 
Charles "served his people with justice and charity,"
Cardinal Jose Saraiva Martins, head of the
Congregation of the Causes of Saints, said Saturday.
"He looked for peace, helped the poor, cultivated his
spiritual life with commitment." 




 

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Re: [Goanet]RE: Religions and their Followings

[cornel]

Floriano,
I beg to defer. Careful reading, for instance, of the Old Testament, and its
basis of much of the New Testament and modern Christianity, will illustrate
that it is a pretty blood-thirsty document. Secondly, it cares two hoots for
the well-being of the Palestinian neighbours by  the Chosen People.
Need I say more?
Cornel



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Re: [Goanet]Re: Inquisition and SFX

[cornel]

I want to agree with Tetonio that the internet cannot satisfactorily
replace scholarship found in texts arising from years of research. His exact
words were 'from what I have seen over time, goanet cannot replace class
room, neither long years of research and study. It can serve to call
attention to some issues and little more.'

The internet has many advantages but it seriously distorts
scholarly/academic work. All it does is generate bite-sized elements of
information, for instant consumption,  produced by individuals who may have
little or no familiarity with the material  they generate for the internet.
It is our current Macdonalisation of knowledge for  instant gratification.

The internet is largely populist by nature and useful for a snapshot of
information, which can then be searched further, the hard way, by going for
rigour to some original sources etc i.e if people take the trouble to do so.

Today,   the internet has become a serious problem for universities  because
many students extract bits and pieces from the internet when they try to
compile their essays, with little or no actual text reading, for assessable
coursework. In such situations, there is some evidence of content in the
essay, but not of its understanding. So serious has this problem become i.e.
of wholesale plagiarism from the net, that universities have been forced to
devise computer programs which can detect the unacknowledged sources which
are presented as a student's own work.

An experienced tutor can generally detect unacknowledged material taken
straight from the internet, but is often unable to prove that the matter is
plagiarised. Consequently, as an external examiner, at one UK institution, I
now insist that a viva is a requirement for any substantially  submitted
coursework. However, this strategy will become increasingly problematic if
student numbers become large. In  the final resort, because of the internet,
I think universities will have to go back to traditional exams, which had
increasingly been discarded for educational reasons, as a means of
assessment.

Finally, one interesting additional problem posed by the internet is that
many people now search the internet for their medical ailments. They then
determine what the ailment is exactly. Next, they  visit their doctor to
tell him/her what their internet diagnosis is. Then they  demand the
medication as per the internet information! Consequently, doctors are
increasingly finding it hard to convince patients that the internet obtained
diagnosis is often incorrect. However, the irony is that, at this point, the
patient is often convinced that their doctor may be experienced but
definitely not up to date!

Genuine professionals in all walks of life are increasingly put to the test
by a more knowledgeable/informed  populace,  but particularly, when highly
questionable internet information is presented to them, by articulate
clients, as definitive/accurate knowledge.

We have always known that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. However,
today, instantaneous 'voluminous knowledge' gleaned from the internet, can
be  more dangerous than ever before.
Cornel



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[Goanet]Vajpayee to succeed!

[Gabe Menezes]

I thought of Goanet readers in view of some postings recently, in regard to
the BJP and forthcoming elections. This will also hold true for Goa.:

>From the economist:

 BACK FROM LUNCH
  -1ST

 The prime minister's stock is soaring

 IN THE middle of 2002 Atal Behari Vajpayee, India's prime minister,
 looked as though he might hobble off the world stage on ailing knees,
 taking his creaking body into political retirement. TIME magazine ran a
 big story on how this "ordinary old man" was spending "the twilight of
 his political life where he wants to be--out to lunch". Nearly two
 years later, Mr Vajpayee still walks hesitantly on reconstructed knees,
 often speaks disconcertingly slowly, and enjoys his lunch more than he
 perhaps should at 79. But he is increasingly recognised as one of the
 world's most surprising statesmen. Now he is pushing his Bharatiya
 Janata Party's (BJP) multi-party coalition into an early general
 election, confident of a victory that few analysts are yet prepared to
 question.

 In the past fortnight Mr Vajpayee has pulled off a reconciliation with
 President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan, setting the two countries on
 the most promising, if uncertain, path to peace for years. He persuaded
 President George Bush to announce, on January 12th, a long-awaited
 co-operation agreement in high technology, space and nuclear products,
 which will beef up India-American relations. He got Jaswant Singh, his
 finance minister, to produce not one but two generous pre-election
 mini-budgets on January 8th and 9th. And L.K. Advani, his deputy prime
 minister, is to back up planned talks between India and Pakistan by
 meeting leaders from Kashmir's separatist All-Party Hurriyat Conference
 on January 22nd for their first-ever formal talks on devolution.

 Mr Vajpayee also seems energised by the prospect of the election
 campaign. At a recent political rally he spoke with the sort of force
 and clarity that once made him famous as an orator, and said he hoped a
 new government would be in place by the end of April.

 The prime minister's 2002 low point came when more than 2,000 people
 were killed in Hindu-Muslim riots in Gujarat. Afterwards, the state's
 controversial chief minister, Narendra Modi, won a landslide assembly
 victory for the BJP on an anti-Muslim ticket. That strengthened
 hardliners within the Sangh Parivar, the Hindu "family of
 organisations" to which the BJP belongs, and led to fears of similarly
 provocative election campaigning elsewhere. But, following a defeat in
 a small northern state, Mr Vajpayee tacked to a more moderate line,
 with campaigns stressing development and stable government. He was
 rewarded in December with election victories in three key states.

 Mr Vajpayee now seems unlikely to retire before his health compels him
 to, and certainly not, as was mooted a year or so ago, soon after the
 coming election. "If he works at 79, he can work at 84," says Pramod
 Mahajan, a prominent BJP politician. That seems to be accepted by the
 76-year-old Mr Advani, who has long been a rival as well as an ally,
 and whose prospects of becoming prime minister fade the longer Mr
 Vajpayee remains. Mr Advani is seen as a nationalist hardliner. He
 cannot mount a challenge now because he knows that he would find it
 difficult to hold the BJP's National Democratic Alliance coalition
 together, let alone win an election, if Mr Vajpayee were to depart.

 The BJP's election confidence stems partly from disarray in Congress,
 the main opposition party, which is ineptly led by the Italian-born
 Sonia Gandhi, widow of Rajiv Gandhi, the former prime minister
 assassinated in 1991. The BJP plans to campaign on a strong economy
 (with growth of over 7% last year), stable government and now the
 prospect of peace with Pakistan. It adds up to a hard act to beat.





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[Goanet]INDIAN HELL

[SHAILESH GRACIAS]

An Indian dies and goes to hell. There he finds that there is a
different hell for each country.

He goes to the German hell and asks, "What do they do here?" He is told, 
"First they put you in an electric chair for an hour. Then they lay you on 
a bed of nails for another hour. Then the German devil comes in and whips 
you for the rest of the day."

The man does not like the sound of that at all, so he moves on. He checks 
out the USA hell as well as the Russian hell and many more.

He discovers that they are all more or less the same as the German hell.

Then he comes to the Indian hell and finds that there is a long line of 
people waiting to get in.

Amazed, he asks, "What do they do here?" He is told, "First they put you 
in an electric chair for an hour. Then they lay you on a bed of nails for 
another hour. Then the Indian devil comes in and whips you for the rest of 
the day."

"But that is exactly the same as all the other hells - why are there so 
many people waiting to get in?"

"Because maintenance is so bad that the electric chair does not work, 
someone has stolen all the nails from the bed, and the devil is a former 
Govt servant, so he comes in, signs the register and then goes to the 
canteen.."
_
Marriage? http://www.bharatmatrimony.com/cgi-bin/bmclicks1.cgi?74 Join 
BharatMatrimony.com and get married.

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RE: [Goanet]Re: Christians wanting things the easy way...

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

Hi Bharati Colaco: Sorry to disappoint you, but today there are more 
Bharati speakers of English than in the whole of the mother country -- 
i.e. the United Kingdom, where you sometimes claim to reside.

While we have been obsessed with our backward-looking mentality, a whole 
lot of "Bharatis" have picked up excellent English. When can we hope for a 
Goan vying for the Booker Prize? Would you like to give the lead ;-) FN

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, [iso-8859-1] Bernado Colaco wrote:


> > 
> > Sorry, Bernardo,
> > You seem to be under the impression that "bharatis",
> > a
> > term which you seem to be using pejoratively to
> > describe non-Goan Indians, either have "crap
> > English"
> > or never had English to begin with.  If they didn't
> > have good English, how do you explain the fact that
> > there are many prize-winning Indian authors today in
> > the English medium or that so many of the CEO's here
> > in the U.S. of technology and financial firms are
> > "bharatis"? 
> 
> True Dona Filomena,
> 
> But the quantity of the masters of the English
> language is a drop. I hope their numbers will increase
> so that they can eliminate the rest of bharat from the
> abyss with their great qualities. Do you envisage this
> happening? 
> 
> Colaco

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Re: [Goanet]RE: St. Francis Xavier

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Gilbert Lawrence wrote:

> Not many Goans / Indians know that the inquisition was brought from
> Europe to Goa nine years after SFX died. And about seven years before
> SFX died, he left Goa for the far east- Spice Islands, Japan and then
> making plans to go to China. So SFX was only actively involved in India
> for the (first) three short years. This time was spent along the whole
> coast from Bassein (north of Mumbai / Bombay) to the southern tip of
> Kerala and then going to Madras/ Chennai. 
> 
> As far as destruction of the Hindu temples and Moslem mosques!  Was this
> done by the Catholic Church or was that done by conquering/colonizing
> authority (any colonizing authority be it Hindu, Muslim, Portuguese etc.
> etc.) to advance their own military-political-religious hold on the land
> and the conquered people? In this respects, Goan web sites that present

Seems like a lot of defensiveness in coming to grips with the past. 

Yes, the Inquisition did come after the death of Francis Xavier. But it's 
also true that he asked Rome to implement it here. 

(This is history. How we interprete it today also has a lot to do with our 
own assumptions.) 

Yes, religious intolerance flowed from the guns of the Portuguese rulers. 
But it's also true that they did it using religion as a justification, 
with the tacit or implied support of the religious authorities of that 
time.

Being defensive about the embarassing aspects of the past isn't going to 
help us come to grips with our history. Neither is a policy of suggesting 
that your-religion-is-more-flawed-than-mine.

Let's call a spade a spade, accept that even great names have a positive 
and negative side to themselves, and ... move on. FN

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[Goanet]RE: Religions and their Followings

[Floriano]

Re: discussions on the net about SFX, etc. etc.

It is my belief that  any religion, may it be Christianity, Islam, Hindu,
Budhism, Jainism etc. etc are based on the lives of Christ,
Mohamed, Ram-Krishna, Budha, Jain etc. respectively.

The essence of any religion is the well-being of one's neighbour and not the
increasing grades of one's own religiousness.
If it was so, Christ, Mohamed Ram-Krishna,  Budha, Jain etc. would not have
attained such  astronomical followings and veneration.

Every religion per se is unique, in that, they preach in the well-being of
one's neighbour and brotherhood. If they are  otherwise, they are
hypocrisies.

This is a story that I have heard as a small child, told to us by my late
grandmother at the evening fireplace.

That a lady from Bodiem (Tivim) had gone to Old Goa to venerate SFX during
the  Exposition. It was late in the evening and begining to get dark when
she returned  to the canoe ferry service between Postar (Aldona)  and
Bodiem, because at that time there was no transport and one had to walk the
distance. Seeing her alone and wearing gold ornaments, the boatman was seen
taking it easy in the  poling of the boat and letting it drift in the
current. Nervous and panicked the lady started asking  the boatman where he
was taking her (tum maka khuim vortai reh!). When the boat was about to
touch the bank, far from it normal landing place,  a russling noise of the
weeds of the river bank was heard as if someone was walking through the
weeds. And a voice was heard telling the boatman to take the lady back to
the landing place (Tika suater pavoi - Tika suater pavoi). The boatman,
shivering with fright, complied and the lady reached home safely. But until
she died, she believed that the stroller on the banks of the river was SFX.

And I have grown up believing that it was Amcho Goemcho Saib too.
It is said beautifully in Konkani  "MAND'LEAR DEU ANM ZALEAR FATOR'

Cheers
Floriano


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[Goanet]16 JAN 2004: GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS

[Gabe Menezes]

LAWYER DEMANDS ACTION AGAINST OLD GOA POLICE: The Old Goa police have been
strongly condemned by Adv Aires Rodrigues for their high-handedness and for
having succumbed to political pressures in registering a false and very
fabricated First Information Report against him in an alleged house trespass
case by a Norwegian citizen, Mr Ivar Fjeld, alleged to have taken place on
November 26, 2003, at Milroc Colony at Ribandar. (H)

RESPONSE:

I trust the Authorities are checking into the status of the Norwegian
citizen. Whether he has overstayed his visa; whether he owns any property in
Goa etc. etc.

Are foreigners allowed to purchase land and property in Goa (India) ? One
sees in our U.K. Newspapers on a regular basis about ex-pats buying up flats
and houses in the so called golden belt of Baga, Candolim and Calangute.


Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.



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RE: [Goanet]MAIM - ek kovita

[domnic fernandes]

Hi Cypriano,

Thanks for the beautiful and meaningful compose/song with a moral in it - 
listen to your parents and respect them 'cause they know what is best for 
you.

We need more people like you to post Konkani articles on Goanet so that more 
Goans throughout the globe embrace the language.  Keep up the good work!

Moi-mogan,
Domnic Fernandes
Anjuna/Dhahran, KSA

From: "ACC GENERAL - CYPRIANO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet]MAIM - ek kovita
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:28:22 +0300


		MAIM

Maim tum asli tednam
Valor tuzo koulo nam
Vaddon manaim zatam zatam
Vollkunk tuka paulo nam
Mogan utor sanglem zalear
Borea monar ghetlem nam
Kitem oxem kelem anvem
Kiteak tuka vollkolonam?
Kopdde moje dhuvun pillun
Fer marun kori chak
Butt moje polish korun
Dovortali ttaka ttak
Rajkunvra bhaxen vaddoitali
Fokot mhunnoi naum aplem rak
Kikont korun kuxin ghatli
Kaplem anvem tujem nak
Boreak kiteim sangot zalear
Fur'r korun portem ditalom
Khorchak kiteim magot zalear
Gharantlo bhair soron vetalom
Vochon barrant ixttam sangata
Moujen rum whisky pietalom
Sanglelem utor khala uddoun
Patkan jivit jietalom
  Pondra vorsanim ugddas ailo aiz
Maim tujea utrancho
Mhunnoi baba axetoloi
Chakonk mog avoicho
Punn tednam aum hanga aschinam
Sambhall korunk mojea putacho
Kiteak puta choltai tum
Rosto ho odruxttacho?
Kednam mevot, khuimsor mevot
Meulear portun zogddim korchonam
Pon'nas maglear xembor ditolom
Portun anink gheumchonam
Mogache zorin navoitolom,
Kainch vaitt zaunk dhiumchonam
Ekuch mogan ulo mar Maim
Dusreangher bhikek dhaddchonam
Pun him utram mojim aikonk atam
  Kotta! hanga anink assa konn?
  Adleo ieadi moje maimcheo
  Eun niraxi zata mon
  Logn zaun bapui zalom
  Kitli khuxealkai,  dhadospon
  Pun mojeai putan makai oxench
  Kelear bonvonk ganvant maka asot tonn?
Best regards,
Cypriano Fernandes (Riyadh, KSA)










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_
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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[Goanet]Legalising v/s Strengthening v/s Flushing

[Cecil Pinto]

Agnelo Mascarenhas wrote

---

AM
>few newspapers will publish letters to the editor
>without identification of the author. so much for
>anonymous posting.
CP
I beg to differ. Almost any publication in the world offers contributors of 
letters or articles to opt for the 'name withheld on request' option. A 
letter/article which is relevant will be printed anonymously provided the 
editor himself is convinced the person exists (through a verfiable 
address/phone).

There are many journalists/ editors on this discussion group who will bear 
me out on this.


AM
commercial sex will possibly make marriages redundant.
A marriage is a long term commitment to a woman. it
being very expensive to support children, specially on
the emotional, physical fronts. this cost can be seen
with single parents. strenthening commercial sex will
destabilize society. I would prefer to be very
conservative on such a front. after all it has taken
thousands of years to evolve.


CP
Commercial sex has been around as long as mankind. It's not called the 
'oldest profession in the world' for nothing, and cannot just be wished (or 
flushed) away. And despite prostitution having been around such a long time 
the 'institution of marriage' has not become 'redundant'.

Strengthening commercial sex is different from 'legalising' commercial sex. 
And I don't see any reason such a move would 'destabilise society'!!

---

AM
never underestimate
human stupidity. well meaning socialist idiots ground
the indian economy to dust before they gave up in
1992. those who exude the virtues of humaness may not
understand the unexpected sideeffects of their ideas.


CP
Rather than make broad statements like that it would be better to examine 
countries and communities where commercial sex has been legalised and the 
effects such a move had on society. 'Flushing' the prostitutes out of 
Baina, as was suggested by Ms. Pereira, who started this thread, is neither 
a practical nor a long term solution.

---

agnelo


Cecil

==



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[Goanet]Re: Inquisition and SFX

[Teotonio R. de Souza]

1. From what I have seen over time, goanet cannot replace class room,
neither long  years of research and study. It can serve to call attention to
some issues and little more. The themes of Inquisition and SFX require vast
reading and thorough familiarity with a vast  bibliography and documentation
 Those who think that placing documents on-line (how many?) would solve the
controversies are wrong. Historians know better that documents do not speak
for themselves. They need to be interpreted in the context in which they
were produced, and that requires lots of more knowledge than what few
documents may provide.

2. It is also important that those who want to discuss seriously a theme,
keep abreast of new research findings and publications. How many of those
talking on the Goanet have read the recent publications, say for instance, 
of Ines Zupanev or Ana Cannas da Cunha? This last named author has recently 
published new documentation to prove that Inquisition was already at work 
in Portuguese India much before 1560. Hence, it did not wait for the
*official* establishment of it to start its work.  There were already cases
running against the cripto-Jews who had been running away from Portuguese
Inquisition in Portugal and seeking refuge in *distant* India from 1536
onwards on a big scale. Hence, the concern of SFX and several other
important Jesuits of the time, such as Gaspar Barzeo, Baltazar Dias, Antonio
Quadrso, Belchior Nunes Barreto, Gonçalo Silveira, etc. 

3. As to the point made below that SFX was busy moving about and that after
the first three years was at  places far away from India,  we should not
forget that he remained Jesuit superior responsible for everything in the
East. Even just before he left on his last voyage to China he left detailed
instructions to Fr. Gaspar Barzeo on how he should run the show during his
absence from India. These instructions make a very interesting reading,
including what SFX thought of women.



Teotonio R. de Souza



---

Gilbert Lawrence wrote:

 

Not many Goans / Indians know that the inquisition was brought from

Europe to Goa nine years after SFX died. And about seven years before SFX
died, he left Goa for the far east- Spice Islands, Japan and then making
plans to go to China. So SFX was only actively involved in India for the
(first) three short years. This time was spent along the whole coast from
Bassein (north of Mumbai / Bombay) to the southern tip of Kerala and then
going to Madras/ Chennai.

 


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RE: [Goanet]Re: Christians wanting things the easy way...

[Bernado Colaco]

Dear Fredi,

Maza tuza ala kantala. Hindi and Marathi were forced
upon us by neo colonialists. But do you not understand
that loads of bharat are now learning hinglish. What a
bindas chap yaar you are Fredi?

B. Colaco 



--- "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote: > Hi 'bharati' Bernado: I learnt Hindi and
Marathi in
> the 'seventies in 
> schools in Goa. My parents' and the earlier
> generation's attitude was 
> similar to your's. They felt the languages were
> being 'imposed' on us. 
> Some of that sentiment rubbed off onto us.
> Fortunately *some*.
> 
> But today, when I travel to places like Mumbai
> (Bombay/Bombaim), 
> Bangalore, and elsewhere in this sub-continent sized
> country, I'm 
> grateful for having learnt sufficient of both
> languages to understand. 
> 


Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" 
your friends today! Download Messenger Now 
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html

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[Goanet]16 JAN 2004: GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS

[Joel D'Souza]

GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS
16 January 2004

WATER HARVESTING PLANS: Goa has already made a humble but definite beginning
towards inter-linking river basins in the state, keeping in line with the
announcement of river connectivity in India made by PM AB Vajpayee. The
various works on water connectivity initiated by the government were shown
to President Dr APJ Kalam during an aerial inspection held on 13 January
2004. Considering the geo-physical and geological conditions prevailing in
Goa, the State has innovated a suitable rainwater harvesting method in
combination with inter-linking of river basins. The inter-linking of Selauli
river with Khandepar in the Mandovi basin, series of bandharas in Khandepar
and Kalay rivers, connecting Chapora and Assonora rivers and constructing 23
bandharas at various locations are all efforts towards water harvesting.
(GT)

NEW HEAD FOR GOA CHURCH: A new archbishop to head the Catholic church in Goa
is to be formally announced at Rome in the next few days. However, the
identity of the successor to Archbishop Raul Gonsalves, who has presided
over Goa's Catholic church since 1978, is not known and remains a top
secret. Gonsalves is said to have submitted his resignation to the Vatican
some time last year. Apparently, the decision to name a successor to
Archbishop Gonsalves has been taken in view of the fast approaching
decennial exposition of St Francis Xaviers' relics. (H)

MUGHAL PAINTINGS: Dr Saryu Doshi, an eminent art historian and Honorary
Director of National Gallery of Modern Art, took the rapt audience on a
breathtaking journey of Mughal Paintings in the exhibition hall of Fundacao
Oriente on the evening of 13th January. Dr Doshi was here to participate in
the Modern Master's series of lectures organised as part of the Fontainhas
Festival of Arts. (H)

GOAN STALL: "PRIDE OF INDIA": Goa has bagged an award for presenting the
best stall in the "Pride of India Exposition 2004", at the Indian Science
Congress held in Chandigarh. The State participated for the first time in
the Congress held between January 3-7. The State represented by the
Department of Science, Technology and Environment, presented Goa's
achievements in all spheres and as the best State in the country. (H)

GIRL RAPED IN FACTORY REST ROOM: Maina-Curtorim police have arrested a
20-year-old youth (from St Jose de Areal) for raping a 19-year-old girl
(from Nessai) in the rest room of a factory belonging to one Suhas Naik.
(GT)

MAN RESCUED FROM ZUARI: Fishermen yesterday rescued a man from the Zuari
river who had attempted to commit suicide by jumping from the bridge.
According to information available, one Sebby Mandrekar, a resident of
Pomburpa jumped from the Zuari bridge. (NT)

LAWYER DEMANDS ACTION AGAINST OLD GOA POLICE: The Old Goa police have been
strongly condemned by Adv Aires Rodrigues for their high-handedness and for
having succumbed to political pressures in registering a false and very
fabricated First Information Report against him in an alleged house trespass
case by a Norwegian citizen, Mr Ivar Fjeld, alleged to have taken place on
November 26, 2003, at Milroc Colony at Ribandar. (H)

GARBAGE PROBLEM ROCKS MANDREM GRAM SABHA: Garbage problem rocked the gram
Sabha of Mandrem village panchayat held recently which demanded an immediate
solution to the problem in order to have a healthy environment around the
place. The issue of illegal construction in the village was also raised
during the meeting. (NT)

NEW CHARTER POLICY: The government on January 15 removed all restrictions
with respect to frequency and size of aircraft for outbound charters and
allowed Indian passport holders to travel on inbound charters. So far, only
six flights were allowed for outbound charters in 90 days. Authorities now
believe a large number of Indians living abroad will avail of charter
facilities. There is only one condition for a tour operator organizing an
outbound charter. A ratio of 2:1 should be maintained in the number of
inbound and outbound tourists. The obligation will not be required in case
of outbound charters with aircraft size of nine or less passengers and also
in case of charters to pilgrimages, like the Haj. (UNI report in Herald)

PROPERTY GIFTED TO MINORS IRREVOCABLE: In an important judgement, the
Supreme Court has ruled that property gifted to minor children by parents
cannot be revoked by them at a later stage on the ground that the child did
not expressly accepted the gift. Settling a 18-year-old litigation between a
brother and sister over the property gifted by their mother, a bench
comprising Justice YK Sabharwal and Justice DM Dharmadhikari said in a
recent judgement that "where a gift is made by a parent to a child, there is
presumption of acceptance of the gift by the donee". (PTI report in GT)

CHAOS IN PONDA: The controversy over the shifting of the old bus stand from
the Indira market premises to the new Kadamba bus stand took a new turn on
15 January. Confusion reigned supreme