[Goanet]Re: Will the anti-casters identify their caste?
--- "Teotonio R. de Souza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > GL's line of argument comparing the action of Gandhi, Mother Theresa and > American > black civil rights campaigners is more in sync with Christ's Incarnation, > the rock base of Christianity. GL's line of argument is illogical and wrong. One does not need to be a woman or become a woman to fight sexism, a senior-citizen to fight ageism, a "chardo" to fight the caste system, etc. > Goanetters who are ashamed and reluctant to publicly admit the caste label > they have > inherited will never be taken seriously in their anti-caste campaign for such > a basic lack of > courage! I do not see if one does not accept the caste system and labels, how one is ashamed and reluctant. Perhaps, more rightly, goanetters who do not play the caste game are progressive and have moved on from petty, social constructs which have no place or justification in human conduct. > All their brave arguments seem futile and mere alibis. Some even said they > are dalits! Please do not do a Gilbert Lawrence on us and misquote or misrepresent views. Here is the exact quote "I identify with the most discriminated group - the dalits. I see the oppression they have suffered and suffer. Unfortunately I cannot do more to help now but I am concerned about justice which includes fighting the caste system." Identifying with the oppression of a group does not mean I said I am a dalit. I identify with the woman's movement and struggle for justice. I am not a woman. I identify with the African-American's fight for racial justice. I am not African-American. Etc. > I wish these "dalit" (bamonn/chardde) goanet campaigners will have an > opportunity to welcome > as in-laws persons "known in the society" to belong to low-castes or > outcastes. The issue is not simply one of in-laws but society-at-large. I reject the caste system, so there is no question about whether someone belongs to "low-castes or outcastes". We are equal. I know for some Goans this is difficult concept to grasp and accept. Regards, George
[Goanet]Re: Goans and caste
Gilbert is now taking Mrs. Mascarenhass advice and advising himself in Goan cyberspace! Gilbert, please stop, you have already won the Humor category. Regards, George --- Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Like Mrs. Mascarenhas says about Goans, "So I'll be blunt: acting like a > giant baby is not how to > make it the world." > GL
[Goanet]Re: Goans and caste
How much more polite do you want me to be! Like Mrs. Mascarenhas says about Goans, "So I'll be blunt: acting like a giant baby is not how to make it the world." GL George Pinto In his post today Gilbert says I am distracting from the "Goans and caste" topic in my responses. He then goes on to distract us again with his "position". Here are HIS statements on caste and Goans from HIS post, ALL I suppose SOMEHOW relate to Caste and Goans. Presumably, he in entered in some Humor category at the Oscar awards tonight.
Re: [Goanet]Will the anti-casters identify themselves?
Teotonio's request may strike many as peculiar, but is not off the topic. While not supporting a deterministic viewpoint (i.e. a person's views on caste are determined by her/his caste), caste background can be an important ingredient of how one relates to the issue of caste. Not sure how this works in Goa, but in Maharashtra (the birthplace of the dalit movement as well as the most obscurantist brahminical organisations), from a person's name one almost automatically knows that person's caste background. Maybe that's the case among Goan Hindus? What about Goan catholics? What is the correlation between surname and caste? Incidentally, jc, Kunbi is a caste. VG . and Kunbis. (outcastes like moi) "Teotonio R. de Souza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Could each one writing on the theme indicate what caste he belongs to? It could help to filter the emotional ingredients of the debate. I am inclined to take the anti-brahmin discourse of a chardo or sudir discussant with a pinch of salt, just as the anti-chardo discourse of a brahmin or sudir, etc. etc. Am I asking too much? Mario replies: Yes, sir, not only are you asking too much, it is none of your business, with all due respect, and also irrelevent to the issue.
[Goanet]Re: Goans and caste
All, In his post today Gilbert says I am distracting from the "Goans and caste" topic in my responses. He then goes on to distract us again with his "position". Here are HIS statements on caste and Goans from HIS post, ALL I suppose SOMEHOW relate to Caste and Goans. Presumably, he in entered in some Humor category at the Oscar awards tonight. GILBERT'S statements: QUOTE 1. 'these phantoms', directly post on the net or through you? 2. Can't you encourage these educated Goans to grow up and participate in democracy in the 21st century? 3. This same applies to 'those apparitions' that elect to speak through Cornell. 4. Perhaps instead of speaking to you 'these spirits' could undertake the studies! 5. Instead of berating the cyber-Goans (many of them, as you claim rebuke you privately and among themselves), you should scold these priests. 6. They have the pulpit every Sunday. So tell them to work through example to improve the laudable goals you claim the church should have OR ask them to leave the priesthood. 7. This, instead of you having a cozy relation with these priests and nuns. 8. Being Sunday let me give my sermaum to these 'PHATOM PADRES AND MADRES' who commune with you. 9. These priests are being a bit like Judas. 10. Like Judas they are also a minority and take pride in speaking to the Caiphas /High priest in the Bay area. 11. The last correspondence I had with your friend Filomena Geise (you brought her name into this in your last post), I showed how she was completely misinterpreting what she was reading about SFX. 12. Perhaps like the other 11 apostles they (along with most Goans) agree with their master and the church. UNQUOTE Now that Gilbert has made his views clear on caste and Goans I think he is right (see my earlier post from today). Regards, George
[Goanet]'To Aslear Aum Nam" Natak/Drama/Tiatr in Goa within Congress MLAs - Part II
As the hours tickle by, will we see the 'To Aslear Aum Nam" Natak/Drama/Tiatr in Goa within Congress MLA as a sequel to the earlier drama ? The count down begins ! Link item here: http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/2005-February/023906.html And a quote from www.colaco.net website: And the great Albert Einstein's quote implies just about the same thing: "The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." "What we are witnessing is a grand of chess being played out on the political chessboard for very high stakes, where winner takes all. There are moves and counter-moves being made and all participants are desperate to avoid being check-mated. The unfortunate part of it is that whoever wins, we the unfortunate public stand to lose! Our only hope is that somehow or the other the present lot of politicians will finish each other off, thereby leaving the arena free for more worthy representatives to take their place." http://www.colaco.net/1/guess.htm = ___ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. Konkani Drama "NOORA" by Micheal D'Silva under the auspices of United Friends Club-Kuwait on 8th April 2005. For details, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pick of the week: http://www.colaco.net/1/EthelSting.htm http://www.geocities.com/mangaloreancatholic/woc/ Goa's finest websites: www.colaco.netwww.supergoa.com www.goa-world.com
[Goanet]+ Maximo Alfonso
It was with a great deal of sadness that I read in today's Toronto Star of Max's passing. Max was my classmate in the Dr. Ribeiro Goan School in Nairobi. He was a field hockey player of note. But what I will always remember him for was for his musical talent. He was a harmonica player par excellence. As young adults, when we went on our annual class picnic - somewhere in the wilds of Kenya - Max would always entertain us on our way there and back in the bus. I remember belting out (with all the others, of course) well known picnic songs like "She'll be coming down the mountain" on the top of my lungs to Max's accompaniment on the harmonica. Indeed none of our class school picnics would be complete without Max. Max was also a school cricket player. I also made it to the second string team. When we went to play inter-school games, Max was there again to entertain us in the school bus. Later in life, when I was in University in Nairobi, Max befriended a fellow student friend of mine from Dar-se-salaam. His name was Donald Dias. He was studing Electrical Engineering. They teamed up to play in the local night clubs. Donald played jazz on the piano. He was excellent too and the two of them formed a group of Goan musicians that became very popular in Nairobi. Unfortunately, Donald succumbed to leukaemia soon after graduating and never had the pleasure of practicing as an engineer. Max will always be remembered for the joy of music he gave us. Others will remember him fondly for his athletic skills. Although he was not a close friend of mine, he was a very good friend - a kind and gentle friend. REST IN PEACE, MY FRIEND. Tim de Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] CANADA
[Goanet]RE: The Networker (Rene Barreto) - Goan Observer
Dear Constantino No apology needed. Keep up the good work you do with Goa/Goans. The future is bright with young people like you. I read an article/interview by Fred Noronha with you on the work you have done. Very impressive. Keep it up. Best regards, George
[Goanet]Re: Will the anti-casters identify their caste?
Dear Cornel and Gilbert: I did not expect my intervention to provoke a mini-tsunami that has washed away the caste labels of sevceral goanet anti-caste campaigners! GL's line of argument comparing the action of Gandhi, Mother Theresa and American black civil rights campaigners is more in sync with Christ's Incarnation, the rock base of Christianity. Those on the goanet claiming their "Catholic" affiliation seem to pay only a lip service to this. St Paul wrote that Christ by becoming man emptied himself! The word he used in Greek seems much stronger than the english equivalent: He became "dung"! St. Paul himself would say that he too became all things to all men to save some! Goanetters who are ashamed and reluctant to publicly admit the caste label they have inherited will never be taken seriously in their anti-caste campaign for such a basic lack of courage! All their brave arguments seem futile and mere alibis. Some even said they are dalits! Dalits would take as an added insult such a cock-and-bull story. They may take me more seriously and welcome my bit of collaboration if I start by admitting that I did nothing to be considered a "brahmin". I wish these "dalit" (bamonn/chardde) goanet campaigners will have an opportunity to welcome as in-laws persons "known in the society" to belong to low-castes or outcastes. Otherwise, as our Goan saying goes: Vigarache sermanv uniek! Teotonio R. de Souza --
[Goanet]Re: The Networker (Rene Barreto) - Goan Observer
Dear George Pinto, I read your message and I am sorry if I understated the role in World Goa Day and cooperation with Rene Barreto. I understand you have given a great contribution and have always hade Goa Sudharop in high esteem, having been in contact with you, Filomena Giese etc. (and even sent in an essay on Goan women in Portugal for you International Goan Womens Day). I am also intending to write on your organization in one of the next Global Goan columns in the Goan Observer. Regarding the understatement, the feature was focused on Rene Barreto as the "networker" and focal point of initiating and coordinating the worldwide events. I could not possible name all the people who have helped him - yet I made the effort to give you some credit by naming your organization in the context of the website establishment. I hope you understand this and also accept my apologies if you still think I should have acted differently. All the best, abraço Constantino * Goa @ http://www.supergoa.com/
[Goanet]Re: Goans and caste
Hi Gilbert: I have come to the conclusion you are right. All 8 positions you have taken are right. All 16 denials of those 8 positions are right. All 24 unrelated issues of those 16 denials of those 8 positions are right. All 32 variants of those 24 unrelated issues of those 16 denials of those 8 positions are right. All 40 peripheral issues of those 32 variants of those 24 unrelated issues of those 16 denials of those 8 positions are right. Your arguments are crystal clear. You have won the debate. Against past, present and future cyberGoans. You have gone further. You have debated yourself, sometimes winning, sometimes losing. You have been magnanimous and forgiven yourself when you lost. There is nothing more for me to add on this topic with Gilbert except offer my congratulations. Regards, George
[Goanet]Will the anti-casters identify their "castes" ?
GL responds: Cornel, I am proud of you for what you stand. And as a general principle I agree with you. But here you are trying to reinvent the wheel and have it both ways. Gandhi fought for independence not by denying his Indian heritage. He brought back home-made khadhi and proudly wore it - even to see the King at Buckingham palace and after Churchill called him 'a half-naked fakir'. Mother Teresa fought discrimination by identifying and living with the poor. All the civil rights progress made in the USA is by Black leaders proudly showing off their race and not running away from it. Are you 'too superior' to follow some well tested methods? Don't you like to follow Ali, Arthur Ashe, Tiger Woods, Oprah, Cosby, etc? Or the black experience of fighting discrimination is to much for you to stomach. :=)) Or you would rather just talk and write about it and not solve racism. Regards, GL, Utica, NY Cornel: I am genuinely puzzled by your query. The issue for me is a war against casteism in belief and practice among Catholic Goans from an anti-casteist perspective. I would resent, intensely, anyone trying to put me into a caste category, and clearly, I would be utterly stupid to try to put myself into one as per your suggestion! If we accepted your suggestion we would be seeking the retention of caste rather than rejecting it outright as is the anti-casteist position. Is there something we are missing Teotonio as per your post? Regards, Cornel
[Goanet]Goanet News Bytes * Feb 27, 2005 * Rane fears constitutional crisis
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G o a n e t - N e w s B y t e s FEBRUARY 27, 2005 DATELINE: GOA
||g |||o |||a |||n |||e |||t || Issue compiled by
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Rane 26-day government to face confidence vote in the
Goa Assembly on Monday. BJP ex-CM Manohar Parrikar
says the Congress won't be successful, All India Radio reports.
12 BJP MLAs on a "tour" of Rajasthan back in Goa: All India Radio.
Pramod Mahajan (BJP) and Margaret Alva also in Goa. (AIR)
o RANE FEARS constitutional crisis by Speaker on Feb 28, appraiss Guv.(H)
o BJP FILES DISQUALIFICATIOn plea against its ex DyCM Digambar Kamat.(H)
o NO CONSENSUS about next candidate for Benaulim among ULP.(H)
o RANE PRAISES Lalu Prasad Yadav's "mass-oriented (railway) budget" (NT)
o ELECTRONIC MEDIA not banned for floor-test, says Speaker. (NT)
o FALL OF PARRIKAR government planned in advance, claims Willy. (NT)
o SPEAKER KEEPS Rane guessing on sitting arrangements in House. (GT/W)
o NCP predicts BJP sponsored 'dirty tricks' on Monday. (GT)
Mickky Pacheco claims that it was Dr Wilfred de Souza who
toppled the Manohar Parrikar government in January this
year. He added that he was part of the game-plan
masterminded by the NCP unit chief. Pacheco said the
entire motive of him joining the BJP (just before that
party's government collapsed) and breaking away the
very next day, was to destabilise the BJP government.
"If I had not merged with the BJP, Babush Monserratte
would not have resigned, Pacheco said. One of the
preconditions for joining the BJP, Mickky said, was to get
the Town and Country Planning portfolio, which was
readily agreed to by the then CM. (Herald)
QUOTE... UNQUOTE: "Shri Mathany (sic) Saldanha the lone member of the United
Goans Democratic Legislature Party having office at Casa dos Aliados, Abade
Faria Road, Margao, Goa is directed to be present in the Goa legislative
assembly on 28th February, at 2.30 pm onwards when the House sits for the
Assembly session and vote in favour of the motion of confidence whenever the
same comes for voting in the house. Violation of this whip will entail
consequences under the Tenth Schedule of the Constitution of India. For
United Goans Democratic Party, sd/- Adv Anacleto Viegas..." advert
prominently displayed in today's Gomantak Times.
-
ISSUES THAT MATTER TO GOA:
-
o TRAWLERS CONTINUE to deputy the Supreme Court ban. Of late,
fishing trawlers along the Sinquerim-Baga beach have become
part of the touristy spectacle like the grounded River
Princess. More so between Candolim and Calangute, write
Alister Miranda & Reuven Procenca in the Gomantak Times.
When they visited Candolim beach on Feb 24, at least 12 trawlers
were spotted blatantly violating the five-fathom rule, with at
least three fishing less than 100 metres from the beach. (GT)
o INCOME TAX joint commissioner, Margao range, S M Keshkamat
action taken under the law of the land will not amount to
harassment. It may be recalled that some Congress-linked
politicians had made an issue over this issue recently.
Keshkamat said "the organisation" had been inciting the
people inorder to "garner political support by making
the issue a political one, without properly knowing the
exact position of law".
o Awareness about HIV/AIDS in rural Goa is very low, writes Preetu NairGT
o Supreme Court verdict to have severe impact on mines in Goa, says
Dr Claude Alvares, environmentalist. Says he: "It is also unfortunate
that the mining lobby has hardly done anything for the environment,
except dig in the ground, take out the ore and sell it, while
people continue to suffer everywhere and everything is in a mess in
the mining areas. (GT)
-
VILLAGE GOA
-
o AMBAULIM-QUEPEM had 700 patients undergo a free medical check
at a recent camp organised by the Lions of Cavelossim. (H)
o BASTORA consumer form meet at Menezes Vaddo, held on Feb 27.(H)
o BORIM saw an unidentified person die of injuries after
being struck by a vehicle l
[Goanet]Re: TRS's : Will the anti-casters identify their "castes" ?
Teotonio, I am genuinly puzzled by your query. The issue for me is a war against casteism in belief and practice among Catholic Goans from an anti-casteist perspective. I would resent, intensely, anyone trying to put me into a caste category, and clearly, I would be utterly stupid to try to put myself into one as per your suggestion! If we accepted your suggestion we would be seeking the retention of caste rather than rejecting it outright as is the anti-casteist position. Is there something we are missing Teotonio as per your post? Regards, Cornel
[Goanet]Re: Will the anti-casters identify themselves?
Dear Mervyn I like your reply! It implies a sense of humour and sounds less tragic than one I received from someone who did not respond to me but to his own assumptions! No debate can be maintained with persons who reveal a disturbed state of mind and pretend that being "catholics" gives them the right to ignore caste system or resolve it! The Church and Christians of Goa must have thought that way at all times, that they were "good catholics". It did not prevent them from compromising with the caste system till today! Mervyn, may I know if Maciels were your Jesuit connections? Are you a "zonn" collector of any village in Goa? Regards, Teotonio - I would really, really like to indicate what caste has been assigned to me, but I don't have a clue. However, I do know that there are others on this net who have a pretty good idea of which caste(s) has been assigned. These are the same people who in Tanzania could, and would, block other people from becoming members of the Goan clubs there because of their caste. The last time I was interested in the caste system, I was a pre-teen. I asked my mom what caste we were, and she said she did not have a clue. Even at that time, I thought that was strange as mom was THE smartest woman I knew. However, since her only brother and four of her first cousins were Jesuits, I ASSumed we must be of good stock :-) So, if there are any of you good folks out there who can help, please let me know on what rung of the ladder (by the grace of God) I was born too. Mervyn2.0 Award Winning Writer AVISO Esta mensagem (incluindo quaisquer anexos) pode conter informação confidencial para uso exclusivo do destinatário. Se não for o destinatário pretendido, não deverá usar, distribuir ou copiar este e-mail.Se recebeu esta mensagem por engano, por favor informe o emissor e elimine-o imediatamente. Obrigado. DISCLAIMER This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential information for exclusive use of its recipient.If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, distribute or copy this e-mail. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender and delete it immediately. Thank you http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1503/teo_publ.pdf
[Goanet]Re: Goans and caste
Hi George, Thanks for the feedback. Do you think you could give others a chance especially those who talk to you in word or in spirit on this subject? Your post (before last) accused me of being distracted... That's because I was courteous enough to respond to your distracting views. And of course I don't have to mention again their in-built contradictions. Again clearly you are confusing caste among native and Diaspora Goans with social injustice in India (which also includes economic, educational, race, gender, etc). So please confine your comments to Goan caste, if you want me to respond to your posts. Or else you will be arguing with yourself and win. And you can be polite about it. Polite - what's that? :=)) Why are these lay people, priests and nuns talking through you on caste issues? Can't 'these phantoms', directly post on the net or through you? Can't you encourage these educated Goans to grow up and participate in democracy in the 21st century? This same applies to 'those apparitions' that elect to speak through Cornell. Again neither you nor he nor JC have posted specific studies of patterns of casteism. Perhaps instead of speaking to you 'these spirits' could undertake the studies! Or are they giving the same old excuse? "Busy... no time!" Instead of berating the cyber-Goans (many of them, as you claim rebuke you privately and among themselves), you should scold these priests. They have the pulpit every Sunday. So tell them to work through example to improve the laudable goals you claim the church should have OR ask them to leave the priesthood. This, instead of you having a cozy relation with these priests and nuns. Being Sunday let me give my sermaum to these 'PHATOM PADRES AND MADRES' who commune with you. Without being too strong or judgmental, with your virulent and constant anti-Catholic stand, these priests are being a bit like Judas. Don't you think so? Like Judas they are also a minority and take pride in speaking to the Caiphas /High priest in the Bay area. Or perhaps you are TOTALLY MISREPRESENTING what they are telling you (that's why you cannot repost their messages to you). The last correspondence I had with your friend Filomena Geise (you brought her name into this in your last post), I showed how she was completely misinterpreting what she was reading about SFX. Talking of her, when are we going to see her research on SFX and Goa's inquisition? Vast majority of priests and nuns do not write or speak to you. Perhaps like the other 11 apostles they (along with most Goans) agree with their master and the church. Or is this just illogical? :=)) Regards, GL George Pinto: 1. The vast, overwhelming consensus is that the caste system is alive and well among some Goan Catholics and in the Goa church. Except for Gilbert, most (all?) of the posts appear to suggest it exists. So I am not sure what further consensus is needed other than Gilbert is now grudgingly admitting to what is obvious to the rest of us. 2. I am not sure what "a few of them happen to be Catholics" means? The caste system exists among some Hindus too. Is Gilbert still being defensive with respect to Catholics with an emphasis on their feelings? 3. Over the last few years, some priests and nuns have written or spoken to me privately and have commended me for my constructive comments where the church needs to improve. In addition, I occasionally receive thanks for my positive comments - the most recent was two weeks ago regarding the great work the Redemptorist Goan priests are doing in social justice matters. In certain instances, they said they wrote or speak privately as they teach at Catholic institutions or are affiliated with Catholic hospitals, etc. and do not want public comments to generate controversy. Same with lay Catholics who have written or spoken to me privately. I understand but I do not agree as I think it is important to speak up publicly. Is Gilbert constrained by being in this group where he cannot speak out "without wounding any individual, group of individuals, segments of Goan society or Goan institutions"? Regards, George --- Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With so many replies to Cornell, here may be consensus statement around > which many Goan Catholics participating in this thread may find > acceptable. > > > "Some Goans still continue to have some deep-seated caste instincts and > unfortunately a few of them happen to be Catholics." > > This makes a lot more sense without wounding any individual, group of > individuals, segments of Goan society or Goan institutions. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Does he tell you he loves you when he's hitting you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Ynf6uA/isnJAA/d1hLAA/E5z3lB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.ya
[Goanet]Casters, anti-casters & research
In a very curious way, this brings up the point Gilbert often makes about research. When "researchers" do their spiel, should we merely accept what they say without a murmur? or should we ask them about their study design, material & methods, how they have tried to eliminate or minimize bias, data analysis techniques etc (Like Gilbert himself is expected answer when he presents his papers to the scientific community) True that the historical "researchers" look at documents to which we mortal humans don't normally have access, or are able to decipher (because of our own linguistic deficiences) BUT: Is there undocumented stuff? For instance: 1. Do we know the exact number of Goans who were murdered by the fiery Inquisition? 2. Do we know the exact number of Goan widows who mudered by the fiery Sati? 3. WHAT happened to their property? Now Teotonio de Souza writes: superfluous in Goa with the extensive use of pigs.> jc's response:-> I'd forgive Janet Rubinoff if she did not know that the HWTs (human waste transporters) of India were NOT a part of the Apartheid Caste System. They were not even considered human beings. She just may not have known this. And nobody perhaps bothered to advise her either. However, what might be of interest is to know the Study Design Janet Rubinoff utilised to come to the above quoted (by TRS) conclusion in her thesis. What was the "p" value of that study? and...What, for instance, is the reason that HWTs are no longer used in cities like Poona(Pune) and London? I hope no "researcher" comes up with a godshem "thesis" which indicates that HWTs became superfluous in London because of London Underground. That will really be cute. On another but related matter "Teotonio R. de Souza" wrote: Mario Goveia: "No Dice" Jose Colaco: NO "caste", as is a Kunbi (way BELOW the foot of the wretched "caste" system) Teotonio de Souza: It is not very difficult though to find it out with some effort and time that any research usually requires. George Pinto: I have no caste. If anyone tries to assign one to me, I categorically reject it. I identify with the most discriminated group - the Dalits. Teotonio de Souza writes: I respect the blunt or polite refusal by those who do not wish to reveal the caste label they have inherited. Jose Colaco's response: Nonsense. THIS Goan Catholic has INHERITED zero apartheid label. Now, if the good research historian Teotonio de Souza wishes to advise us that he IS a member of (BELONGS TO) this or that "caste", he should feel absolutely free to do the honours. Unless of course he is NOT an "anti-caster". In that event, his silence on this question will be understood for what it is worth. jc http://www.colaco.net _ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
[Goanet]Cast System
Hi Goanetters, There is an age old saying ,that "Wearing a pair of trousers do not make u a gentleman". Similarly becoming a Catholic or Christian does not make u an outcaste. - or does it! In fact Dalits have a separate church in the South of India. Why? The same saying applies here in a different context, - in Europe we now have " the New Rich". These newly acquired riches does not make a person behave like a gentleman. In the same way a person who has become a Christian, does not automatically become an 'aristocrat' One has to learn to behave, - pouring some H2O on ur head does not make u an aristocrat. Therefore Brahmins will always be Brahmins. A Dalit was asked by a foreigner, 'how do u know who is a Dalit and who is not?' The Dalit said - We Just Know - They know! This is Not Just A Goan Problem. Sincerly, Milad Meah. (Acton, London)
[Goanet]New research on * Goan MP's in the Portuguese Parliament*
Dear Jorge / Livia, Thanks for clarifying how the candidates for Estado da India were chosen from Portuguese Africa, even after it was liberated in 1961. Was Purxottam Quenim already one of the half dozen Hindus like Coissoró settled in Portugal before 1961? Do you know if he and Albuquerque make any significant contribution on behalf of Goa, Daman and Diu? Were they also members of the so-called Comissariado do Estado da India set up by the Salazar regime to keep up the international campaign to regain Goa!? You are right, I had already conveyed to Gabriel Figueiredo by personal e-mail my mistaking Abilio for Abel. Bom fim de semana. Teotonio R. de Souza --- Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:53:53 -0500 From: Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: goanet@goanet.org Subject: [Goanet]Re: New research on * Goan MP's in the Portuguese Parliament* Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org I will make only three small comments to what Teotonio R. de Souza wrote. Re «Who could have elected those after 1961? Do you know of a lady Albuqurque from your village and who was one of those non-elected representatives?»: Goans who were residing in Portugal or any of the so-called Portuguese "overseas provinces" (Angola, Mozambique, etc.) and wished to vote, could choose to vote either on a "candidate" who stood for the constituency where the voter resided or on a "candidate" who stood for the "Estado da India". Of course, all these "candidates" were put forward by Salazar's party "Uniao Nacional". It is in this way that the Albuquerque lady was "elected" as "deputada pelo Estado da India". Re «I do not know of any Hindus, even after the Republic of 1910, who occupied any place in the Portuguese parliament as representatives of Portuguese India. Narana Coissoró is a post.1974 phenomenon!»: At the time of the December 1961 events that led to the integration of Goa, Daman and Diu in the Republic of India, Purxotoma Quenim was one of the two representatives of the "Estado da India" in the Portuguese Parliament. I don t know who was the other one - maybe Mgr. Canon Castilho de Noronha. - As for Narana Coissoro, in the recent elections he was made to stand as his (Christian Democrats) party's candidate for Faro (Algarve), a district where that party was always conspicuous by its absence. He failed. So Coissoro is now out of Parliament. Re «As for Goans in the regional assemblies, there was one Abel Fernandes, who held power in the Evora muncipality during three decades till a couple of years back. He belonged to the Communist party. I do not know of any other who left a mark»: The correct name is Abilio Fernandes. I understand (though I am not sure) that now he was elected MP for the district of Evora, on the Communist Party list Jorge
[Goanet]CMs of Goa - chronology and comment
Historian Prajal Sakhardande, in his column "Pages from the Past" in today's Navhind Times, has an interesting chronology of the Chief Ministers of Goa. I have made a synopsis of his column in a tabular format below and added some comments of my own. I'm not much of a political analyst but I hope some Cyber Goans will be able to shed more light on these illustrious people who have sat on the 'kodel', and perhaps answer my questions about the events that surrounded some of the change-overs. Forgive my ignorance. 19/12/1961 Liberation. What form of Government was existent till the results of the first election? Military rule? How long did Major General Candith remain in power? When did Governor Tumkur Shivshankar take over? 20/12/1963 - 02/12/1966 Dayanand Bandodkar (Bhau - highly revered first CM) Bandodkar never contested the first elections but became CM and later stood for elections. Opinion Poll. What form of Government was existent during this four month period? Was Bandodkar running a caretaker Government? Why did the Opinion Poll have to disrupt an elected party's tenure? 05/04/1967 - 23/03/1972 Dayanand Bandodkar 23/03/1972 - 12/08/1973 Dayanand Bandodkar Dayanand Bandodkar expired. Is it true he had a heart attack while playing Table tennis at Panjim Gymkhana? I though he was a cricket enthusiast. Does a new CM have to be sworn in immediately by law, or is this just convention? 12/08/1973 - 07/06/1977 Shashikala Kakodkar (Taee - only woman CM till date) 07/06/1977 - 27/04/1979 Shashikala Kakodkar Why this 8 month gap? Is this the time Rane and some others broke away from the MGP? Did they join the Congress or form their own party? Is it true Rane is of Rajput descent? When did the Ranes come to Goa? What exactly is their claim to royalty? 16/01/1980 - 07/01/1985 Pratapsingh Raoji Rane (Rane - most often CM) 07/01/1985 - 30/05/1987 Pratapsingh Raoji Rane Statehood. Did Rane have to be sworn in again because Goa became a State? 30/05/1987 - 09/01/1990 Pratapsingh Raoji Rane 09/01/1990 - 27/03/1990 Pratapsingh Raoji Rane What happened here? Is this where the "defection culture" started? The short lived Progressive Democratic Front (PDF) Government was formed here or later? 27/03/1990 - 14/04/1990 Churchill Alemao (Churchill - dramatic Strongman of the South) Is it true that kept his word and vacated the CM's chair, or was he forced to quit? 14/04/1990 - 14/12/1990 Luis Proto Barbosa (Barbose - Speaker turned CM) President's Rule. How did the PDF government fall? 25/01/1991 - 18/05/1993 Ravi Naik (Popular Champion of the Bhandari Samaj) 18/05/1993 - 02/04/1994 Wilfred D'Souza (Dotor Willy - Egoistic manipulator) 02/04/1994 - 08/04/1994 Ravi Naik From what I hear, in these six days a record number of land conversions were authorised and crores of rupees changed hands - including Gubernatorial. Banu Prakash Singh was the Governor at the time. Public memory is short. 08/04/1994 - 16/12/1994 Wilfred D'Souza 16/12/1994 - 29/07/1998 Pratapsingh Raoji Rane 29/07/1998 - 23/11/1998 Wilfred D'Souza Who ruled for these three days? Why the gap? 26/11/1998 - 08/02/1999 Luizinho Faleiro (Luizinh - Rags to riches through Unions and Politics) President's Rule. 09/06/1999 - 24/11/1999 Luizinho Faleiro 24/11/1999 - 24/10/2000 Francisco Sardinha (Sardinh - Charismatic King Momo with panache) 24/10/2000 - 03/06/2002 Manohar Parrikar (Parrikar - "I am the State", RSS dictator) 03/06/2002 - 02/02/2005 Manohar Parrikar 02/02/2005 - present Pratapsingh Raoji Rane
[Goanet]Aitaracheo Kaskutleo: "Honey, This is High Voltage Detector"
Honey, This is High Voltage Detector Sumar vis odik minutam zalim astelim. Mhoje sundoren bedroom-antli light palloun mhoje khuxik aslelea unxear apli tokli tenkoilear. Ghoddie, aichi rat poili rat zait itlo vell purean tinnem aplo radio off dovorlear. Dis bhor bhurgeam sovem boball ani urleli karandai ratche nidhunk ghelele koden mhaka aikunk poddtali. Tichi-i mhonn chuk korunk zata? Na! Chougam bhurgeanchi avoi ti. Vhoddle put kollejik vetat tor dhuvo xarantlea iskolant xiktat. Sokalchea so zavnchea adinch tinnem uttonk zai. Disantleant kedna ghorchem kam sompon ti bed-ik tenktta, ek-ek pavtti tikach zanui nasta. Aiz Aitar. Novebrachi 21vis tarik, voros 2004. Ami dogaim sokallim Pornea Goeant Sant Fransis Xavierachea relikanche solave ugtavnneank gelelim. Dobajik ugttavnne sohobolidanachem Mis (Solemn Pontifical Mass) sokalchea 9.30 horar suru zalelem tem donparchea 12.30 vaztam somplelem. Thoddo vell ferrient bhovun ghora pavtta mhollear 3.30 vazlelim Ghora ailear, bhurgeanim ponasam voir jevnna aidonamcho dall kuznantlea basinant ximpdailolo. To duvun kaddtta ani ghorantleo hanga thoim xipoddleleo vostu zagear ghalta mhollear bhurgeanchea avoik vo mhoje sundorek borech trass poddle astele. Ghoddie aiz khup kansar zalea asteli oxem hanv chinta astana tinnem aplea radiocho button on kelo. Nidhlo re? Mhojem tondd dusre vaten aslem tem tichea vatten ghuvndailem ani mhojo dhavo hat sodam porim tichea tokle sokla ghatlolo tedna tinnem apli tokli mhojea hatar pattoili . Mhojo uzvo hat tichea lamb kensar khellunk lagle ani tinnem aplem ek zhamgod mhojea zhangdar chitkun dovortana radiocho illoso volume choddoun ti fuddem uloili Kazar zalea uprant donui-i 1984 ani 1994 vorsanlea Saibachea ugttavnnenk ami hajir aslelim. Argham Dhonia Devak hev-ui khepek, ugttavnnenche disa ami sangatak asat. Ponn he pavtti, Bom Jesus Basilica lagsor ghalelea mattvant bhitor sorteleank ani toxench Saibache relikecho umo gheunk Se Cathedral-an vochunk, pulisani koddok bondabost keleli dista. Bhitor sorunk kherit security gate bosoileat ani soglle ietrekar (pilgrims) tatuntlean bhitor sortana kim-kim korun puliseam lagim aslelem machine avaz korta. Hem sogllem kitem? Ani itli pulisanchi bondabost Saibachea povitr suater kiteak? Osama Bin Laden ek mulltotvvadi (fundamentalist.) Amerik desh ani Amerikacho lok tacho vhodd dusman. Sonvsarachea konxea konxeani tache onueai-i (followers) asat. Amchea Bharantatui (Jammu- Kashmirant) kaim tache somorthok (supporters) jietat. Atmhottea bomb (suicide bomb) ghalun hea akantvadi (terrorist) khoisoruch morunk ani nisonton korunk toiar zatat ani odik korun Amerikan, Israel lokancho zomo asta thoimsor. Tanchi dusmankai tannim Amerika na tor Israel desant vochun korchi. Amchea dortorer kiteak re, ani odik korun bhagivont Saibachea Goeant? Tinnem husko dakhoun mhonnttlem Saibachea exposition-ank akkhea sonvsarache ietrekar ienvche asat ani tatunt Amerik ani Israel lokamcho aspav asa. Mhonnttokoch hanvem tuka sanglam tea pormonnem akantvadi khoisoruch gusunk xekttat. Te jivak vittelele monis. Goenkaranchi toxich pordeshi ietrekaranchi surokxea samballunk, protek monxan Bom Jesus Basilica ani Se Cathedral-ant vetana gate-tixim metal detector dovorleat, thevtilean par (cross) korunk zai. Metal detector mhonnttat tem kitem?, ho vichar kortana tinnem aplo dhavo hat mhojea fatti pattlean ghalun, mhaka, aplea xatier vornnun dhorlo. Konnai-i monxachea hangar, koslei-i bomba sarkeli sfort (blast) zauncheli vost, vo weapon zoxem pistol ani dusrim bhirankun attiaram aslear ho metal detector kolit korta. Koxem kollta hea metal detector-ak tujea hangar weapon asa vo na mhonn?, mhaka anikui apleavixim vornnun tinnem vicharlem. Metal detector-cho kantto vo needle danger mhonn dakoitoch Oi? Ani hea vellar ghorcho detector khoimchem weapon-achi topasnni korta tor? Lino B. Dourado = http://www.goa-world.net/poems http://www.goa-world.net/poems/lino __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
