Re: [Goanet]Blindspot In Meaningful Aviation Planning
Mr. Souza, Kindly note that Our Goa government is a mere puppet and can not take any effective action. It is guys like you and the quiet ones to lend their voices on this issue. I wonder if Goanet could conduct a poll on their website regarding this topic: Should the indian navy get out of Dabolim?. Kind regards B. Colaco --- Aloysius D'Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: airport. Maybe with your voice added to those of Goans internationally we may be able to make OUR Goa government see sense. ___ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
[Goanet]Blindspot In Meaningful Aviation Planning
Thanks Sucheta, I fully agree and I had congratulated Philip on his clear message regarding the unnecessary MOPA airport. Maybe with your voice added to those of Goans internationally we may be able to make OUR Goa government see sense. Cheers Aloysius - Original Message - From: Sucheta Dalal goanet@goanet.org To: goanet@goanet.org Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:08 PM Subject: [Goanet]Re: Blindspot In Meaningful Aviation Planning | So many well meaning and useful groups degenerate rapidly because participants | refuse debate with politeness. I am sorry to jump into a Goa issue, but surely | Mr.Ferns, we would all have benefited with some clear and temperate analysis | that does not ascribe motives to Phi Thomas. | | I thought that the point made by Mr.Thomas are extremely relevant. I don't see | any need for a second airport at Goa (after all, money for this lavish | infrastructure comes from we, the people Especially those of us who are stupid | enough to pay our taxes regularly). | | Secondly, I don't see why the Navy's pilot training cannot be shifted to | Karwar, which is just as beautiful ( I am a half Karwari) but not a money- | spinning tourist destination. And the Dabolim airport opened up for | development and better infrastructure. | | I am really keen on hearing your views -- hopefully without the sarcasm. | | best | Sucheta | | gerry ferns [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | SPECK IN THE OTHERS EYE,IGNORING THE MOTE IN YOUR | OWN | | With utmost respect I beg to submit that 'there are | none so blind as those who refuse to see, and none so | deaf as those who refuse to hear. |
RE: [Goanet]Blindspot In Meaningful Aviation Planning
Hello Gerry, Your attack on Phillip Thomas' above mentioned article, is unwarranted. I beg to differ completely on your so called Fallacies List. You have only made (false) statements and you presume that goanetters are gullible, to take your statements as fact! Well I am not; and please read me further down. From: gerry ferns [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet]Blindspot In Meaningful Aviation Planning Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 05:34:55 -0700 (PDT) FALLACIES a}that military and civilian uses are mutually incompatible/exclusive. Nasci: For 'efficiency and streamlining operations', they are incompatible and should be exclusive; only in the emergency of war, all such facilities will come under the control of the war machine. b}that military and civilian aspects of national security are seperate, hermetic compartments. Nasci: It is correct that these be seperate! c}that development of another airport in North Goa would neccessarily eat into the tourism pie of Goa. Nasci: The Mopa Aoirport will certainly eat into the tourism pie of Goa; definitely so! d}that if the airport in Mopa also massages development in Maharashtra,it would be against the interests of India. Nasci: It will not be against the interest of India, but will certainly be completely against the interest of South Goa, Middle Goa and Eastern Goa, that will remain underdeveloped! e}that Managements of Hotels in South Goa are so ossified/fossilised ,that they would be completely unable to respond to the changing Aviation scenario in Goa. Nasci: They will certainly not be able to respond and will in time 'go bankrupt'; and many of the residents of South Goa will loose jobs and business a plenty. It can and will soon become a 'backward area; Such will be impact of Mopa on South Goa! f} that the citizens of India residing in SOUTH GOA, have greater priority than citizens of India residing in NORTH GOA, to infrastructure,employment -generation,business opportunities, accessibility and convenience. Nasci: No! In the case of Mopa, its the residents of North Goa alone who will have good access and priveledge; where as in the case of Dabolim, ALL the people of Goa, North, South, and East, already have equal access and priveledge etc. Besides, the Dabolim Airport location etc has already made it a 'tremendous airport! All the infrastucture servicing the airport is close at hand; the roads etc are already there; and the Terminal and other infrastructure facilities can be further beefed up, at a fraction of the cost involved with Mopa! Only the 'Naval Air' has to move either to Sea Bird or to Mopa; Let the Navy build and use Mopa airport if at all! g}that the Tourism Industry has yet not factored the prospect of the airport in North Goa in their business plans ,and are yet to take off the block in terms of accquiring land in North Goa in the vicinity of the Airport to further their business prospects in Goa. Nasci: The Tourism Dept. should never acquire land etc. in North Goa/ Pernem. Let the Navy do the acquisition for the Mopa Airport, for their use, if at all! h}that hotel businessess currently operating in SOUTH GOA have a divine/inalienable right to control every variable in the business environment that might even remotely impact their business. Nasci: What rubbish are you saying? We are talking of all Goans; it's you who is talking only for Pernem residents! You seem to have a vested interest in land in North Goa! Is this true? j}that the YOUTH in North Goa, have no stake whatsoever in the EMPLOYMENT GENERATING CAPACITY OF THE AIRPORT IN MOPA. Nasci: These are your words! If you are 'Youth' than you are mistaken youth! Open your eyes, and see how big the world is. k}that the new airport in MOPA is out of SYNC with the National Aviation Policy. l}that it is utterly neccessary to protect the STATUS QUO and not build another Airport in North Goa, as this would be against the interests of ALL GOANS/INDIANS. Nasci: This is true! If funds, private or Govt. are diverted to Mopa; then Dabolim will be neglected and the Youth of Goa'' who you seem to be vouching for, will be the worst sufferers! Sell the Dabolim Airport to the private sector and build it up and let the Naval Air acquire lane at Mopa and develop the same' if they so need it. COME ON MR THOMAS RESPECT THE READERS OF GOANET.LET NOT MILK BE PASSED OFF AS SEASONED WINE Nasci: Gerry, I hate to say this! But it is you who is trying to pass off 'Urine' as wine! Think well and truly for all of Goa and support the efforts of PhillipThomas and myself. Phillip Thomas is thinking of all of Goa and all of India too; very much unlike you. Cheers! Nasci Caldeira Melbourne.
[Goanet]Blindspot In Meaningful Aviation Planning
SPECK IN THE OTHERS EYE,IGNORING THE MOTE IN YOUR OWN With utmost respect I beg to submit that 'there are none so blind as those who refuse to see, and none so deaf as those who refuse to hear. And so on it can go on. Since I am sufficiently stimulated by the loud talk of the Article into NOT wanting to be categorised as ,,,none so dumb as those who refuse to speak, I am constrained to FOCUS attention to some of the FALLACIES underying the viewpoint of Mr Philip Thomas, which are discernible to my limited and UNTUTORED perception: FALLACIES a}that military and civilian uses are mutually incompatible/exclusive. b}that military and civilian aspects of national security are seperate, hermetic compartments. c}that development of another airport in North Goa would neccessarily eat into the tourism pie of Goa. d}that if the airport in Mopa also massages development in Maharashtra,it would be against the interests of India. e}that Managements of Hotels in South Goa are so ossified/fossilised ,that they would be completely unable to respond to the changing Aviation scenario in Goa. f} that the citizens of India residing in SOUTH GOA, have greater priority than citizens of India residing in NORTH GOA, to infrastructure,employment -generation,business opportunities, accessibility and convenience. g}that the Tourism Industry has yet not factored the prospect of the airport in North Goa in their business plans ,and are yet to take off the block in terms of accquiring land in North Goa in the vicinity of the Airport to further their business prospects in Goa. h}that hotel businessess currently operating in SOUTH GOA have a divine/inalienable right to control every variable in the business environment that might even remotely impact their business. j}that the YOUTH in North Goa, have no stake whatsoever in the EMPLOYMENT GENERATING CAPACITY OF THE AIRPORT IN MOPA. k}that the new airport in MOPA is out of SYNC with the National Aviation Policy. l}that it is utterly neccessary to protect the STATUS QUO and not build another Airport in North Goa, as this would be against the interests of ALL GOANS/INDIANS. COME ON MR THOMAS RESPECT THE READERS OF GOANET.LET NOT MILK BE PASSED OFF AS SEASONED WINE __ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
[Goanet]]BLINDSPOT IN MEANINGFUL AVIATION PLANNING
Congratulations - Philip -- your letter to Sucheta is very clear and to the point Thanks Aloysius - Original Message - From: Philip Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: goanet@goanet.org Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: [Goanet]BLINDSPOT IN MEANINGFUL AVIATION PLANNING | Ms Sucheta Dalal | Reputed Business Columnist | | Dear Ms Dalal: | | I enjoyed your column in INDIAN EXPRESS, June 19, 2005, titled Wither | Airports?. You were right to highlight the fact that our aviation | authorities are unprepared for the monumental challenge of making our | airports uptodate, including A380-ready. This commendable stance is, | however, in stark contrast to an earlier report by others in the same paper | (on May 27) which blithely recommended that Goa go in for an A380 airport at | a greenfield site (Mopa in Goa) by 2014! Although this report made no | ripples at all, at least that I know of, it may still do incalculable harm | to Goa's already distorted aviation scene by further skewing the badly | needed efforts to improve it. In fact a careful look at the vexed problem of | Goa's aviation scenario may shed useful light on the overall national | problem of urgently updating our airport infrastructure that you have | rightly called for in your June 19 column. | | Great Wall of Goa | | What the May 27 report failed to disclose was that Goa's sole airport, | Dabolim in the south, is controlled since the early 1960s by the Navy which | places unrealistic restrictions on a tourism oriented facility in the name | of interminably training a couple of squadrons of pilots for carrier based | fighter operation using obsolescent and tricky Sea Harriers. | | As you may be aware, the Navy has recently commissioned a mammoth base | called Project Seabird at Karwar about 100 km south of Goa in Karnataka. The | ostensible purpose of this project is to decongest Mumbai harbour. However | there is no commensurate will to decongest Dabolim airport for civilian | flight purposes i.e. by shifting military flight training etc to Seabird or | even other places. The air station there is still only on paper, awaiting | financial and other high level clearances. It could become a reality in the | next phase of the project. Its another matter that the Karwar terrain is not | all that suitable for any airflield which is much more than of minimal | proportions. | | In the mean time, Dabolim has been booked for training pilots of MIG29Ks | which have recently been acquired along with an old Russian aircraft | carrier. These carrier based fighters are said to be the first to be ordered | by any Navy in the world. So the prospect of the Navy easing up on civilian | flight restrictions at Dabolim in the foreseeable future are quite dim. | That's why I call the military presence at Dabolim airport the Great Wall of | Goa! The only way out may be to push for joint military/civilian management | which is not unheard of abroad in places like the U.S. But where will the | push for this come from? More on this later. | | Mopa | | For the past couple of years, a proposal has been doing the rounds for a | greenfield airport at Mopa in North Goa. There is natural resistance to this | for several reasons. First, it is feared that once Mopa is ready then | civilian flghts at Dabolim will have to cease. There are several precedents | for this. This happened at the Navy air station in Kochi when the | public/private greenfield airport called CIAL came up nearby a few years | ago. The same thing is due to occur at HAL controlled Bangalore airport when | the new BIAL comes up in 2-3 years time. | | A discontinuation of civilian flights like this would always be a boon for | the military which would naturally prefer a free run at its bases. It is | another matter whether the Navy, whose essential armament is carrier based | aircraft, really needs an airport with a mammoth 11,000 foot runway which is | fit for jumbo jets (including perhaps the A380 after a suitable upgrade of | the type you described). Thus Dabolim at present, you will appreciate, is a | purely dog-in-the-manger situation. | | On the other hand, Mopa would cut into the business of South Goa hotels | which depend heavily on international chartered and scheduled domestic | flights at close-in Dabolim. There is also a strong hunch in Goa that Mopa | would only give a much needed boost to emerging competitor resorts in | southern Maharashtra. In fact the INDIAN EXPRESS article of May 27 | graphically shows links to offbeat places like Ratnagiri, Kolhapur, | Sindhudurg etc from Mopa, while ostensibly emphasising an aircraft | (A380)which is meant for hub-to-hub international travel. | | Low Cost Aviation | | Now that India has finally caught the low cost aviation bug there may be | some hope for beleaguered civil aviation at Dabolim. It is beginning to be | realised
[Goanet]BLINDSPOT IN MEANINGFUL AVIATION PLANNING
Ms Sucheta Dalal Reputed Business Columnist Dear Ms Dalal: I enjoyed your column in INDIAN EXPRESS, June 19, 2005, titled Wither Airports?. You were right to highlight the fact that our aviation authorities are unprepared for the monumental challenge of making our airports uptodate, including A380-ready. This commendable stance is, however, in stark contrast to an earlier report by others in the same paper (on May 27) which blithely recommended that Goa go in for an A380 airport at a greenfield site (Mopa in Goa) by 2014! Although this report made no ripples at all, at least that I know of, it may still do incalculable harm to Goa's already distorted aviation scene by further skewing the badly needed efforts to improve it. In fact a careful look at the vexed problem of Goa's aviation scenario may shed useful light on the overall national problem of urgently updating our airport infrastructure that you have rightly called for in your June 19 column. Great Wall of Goa What the May 27 report failed to disclose was that Goa's sole airport, Dabolim in the south, is controlled since the early 1960s by the Navy which places unrealistic restrictions on a tourism oriented facility in the name of interminably training a couple of squadrons of pilots for carrier based fighter operation using obsolescent and tricky Sea Harriers. As you may be aware, the Navy has recently commissioned a mammoth base called Project Seabird at Karwar about 100 km south of Goa in Karnataka. The ostensible purpose of this project is to decongest Mumbai harbour. However there is no commensurate will to decongest Dabolim airport for civilian flight purposes i.e. by shifting military flight training etc to Seabird or even other places. The air station there is still only on paper, awaiting financial and other high level clearances. It could become a reality in the next phase of the project. Its another matter that the Karwar terrain is not all that suitable for any airflield which is much more than of minimal proportions. In the mean time, Dabolim has been booked for training pilots of MIG29Ks which have recently been acquired along with an old Russian aircraft carrier. These carrier based fighters are said to be the first to be ordered by any Navy in the world. So the prospect of the Navy easing up on civilian flight restrictions at Dabolim in the foreseeable future are quite dim. That's why I call the military presence at Dabolim airport the Great Wall of Goa! The only way out may be to push for joint military/civilian management which is not unheard of abroad in places like the U.S. But where will the push for this come from? More on this later. Mopa For the past couple of years, a proposal has been doing the rounds for a greenfield airport at Mopa in North Goa. There is natural resistance to this for several reasons. First, it is feared that once Mopa is ready then civilian flghts at Dabolim will have to cease. There are several precedents for this. This happened at the Navy air station in Kochi when the public/private greenfield airport called CIAL came up nearby a few years ago. The same thing is due to occur at HAL controlled Bangalore airport when the new BIAL comes up in 2-3 years time. A discontinuation of civilian flights like this would always be a boon for the military which would naturally prefer a free run at its bases. It is another matter whether the Navy, whose essential armament is carrier based aircraft, really needs an airport with a mammoth 11,000 foot runway which is fit for jumbo jets (including perhaps the A380 after a suitable upgrade of the type you described). Thus Dabolim at present, you will appreciate, is a purely dog-in-the-manger situation. On the other hand, Mopa would cut into the business of South Goa hotels which depend heavily on international chartered and scheduled domestic flights at close-in Dabolim. There is also a strong hunch in Goa that Mopa would only give a much needed boost to emerging competitor resorts in southern Maharashtra. In fact the INDIAN EXPRESS article of May 27 graphically shows links to offbeat places like Ratnagiri, Kolhapur, Sindhudurg etc from Mopa, while ostensibly emphasising an aircraft (A380)which is meant for hub-to-hub international travel. Low Cost Aviation Now that India has finally caught the low cost aviation bug there may be some hope for beleaguered civil aviation at Dabolim. It is beginning to be realised that there is a need for more functioning airports including multiple facilities for big cities. (Note that Goa can be usefully viewed as a city state). In Mumbai the AAI is bitterly regretting having parted with Juhu airport to the BMC thirty years ago for road building purposes. There is talk of reopening Bangalore and Hyderabad airports even when BIAL and HIAL are operational. Even the Kochi naval airport is being eyed again for civilian use! But all this may be wishful
