RE: [Goanet] Goenkar, Goeantle ani Goembhaile (Uday Bhembre's views)
--- Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Comparatively, and for historical and cultural >reasons, all Indian languages are under developed; as >compared to Chinese, Japanese, English and a host >of European languages. > How can Nasci make such a categorical assertion? Has he done any kind of comparative linguistic analysis? Has he read the literature of any Indian language? >From my own modest understanding, being able to converse and write in Konkani and English with the same amount of facility, I can say with confidence that there are domains of human experience in which Konkani is much richer than English. Cheers, Santosh
RE: [Goanet]Goenkar, Goeantle ani Goembhaile (Uday Bhembre's views)
Dear Fred, Well said Fred; You have hit the nail on the head! Then again, why should knowledge of and speaking 'konkani' alone decide: 'who is a Goan'! Shouldn't Birth, long Domicile and Ancestry by birth, be more relevant, more so in today's world, of globalisation and computerisation, where minor and not so minor languages are becoming more and more 'colloquial only' language entities? Comparatively, and for historical and cultural reasons, all Indian languages are under developed; as compared to Chinese, Japanese, English and a host of European languages. That's the Indian genius, that has let us down! Why can't a person be proud and claim to be a Goan, irrespective of their 'fluency' in Konkani?? I am only half fluent in konkani and colloqually only; I will not have any one take away the"Goanness" from me; Its is the red soil of Goa and my genes bred from it, which decides it; and not any language fanatics. Nasci Caldeira Melbourne Down Under. From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org To: goanet@goanet.org Subject: [Goanet]Goenkar, Goeantle ani Goembhaile (Uday Bhembre's views) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 00:01:51 +0530 (IST) Uday Bhembre has written the lead article in Fausto V da Costa's 'Goencho Avaz' (Volume I Issue I) that hit the stands in April 2005, under the above title (Goans, in Goa and Outside). Udaybab puts forth some of the well-known arguments of the Konkani lobby (particularly the Devanagari camp) in Goa. Some of the points he makes includes: * Goa has one language, but not all Goans accept it. Some say Marathi is their mother-tongue, even if they can't speak and write it fluently. * Another type of Goan feels ashamed to speak Konkani. After Portuguese attempts to 'foreignise' him, he has become half foreign and half Goan. If they were true Goans and had tried enough, 43 years after Liberation, they would have learnt to speak Konkani. But they're not ready to do that. * Then, there are some Goans who insult Mons. Dalgado by campaigning for Romi Konkani under his name.One doesn't know if Fr Thomas Stevens' soul is crying or laughing by their cause. Bhembre argues that migratory Goans are of three kinds -- those settled within India, those abroad but planning to return sometime, and those who have migrated more or less permanently. Most Goans in the first category, both Hindu and Catholic, live in Mumbai, he argues. But Hindu Goans there have become "half Maharashtrian" while the Catholic Goans are "half foreign". They lack both unity and a voice in the city of Mumbai. Maharashtra government has done little for them. Even Lata Mangeshkar calls herself a "Maharashtrian". And look at the stereotypes that Hindi films project of Goans. There must be a quarter-million Goans in Mumbai, but they're voiceless, argues Bhembre. Gulf Goans have safeguarded their Konkani traditions. But if the Sheikh-ocracy gives way to democracy, they might opt to stay on their, and it's hard to say what would happen to them then. Goans in Europe, US and Canada have become "pordexi Goenkars", unlikely to return back. Their Goanity has got eroded. In the US, the Goan Hindus and Catholics have separate organisations. Some years back, Udaybab says, when he went to a function at Orlando, US, he found not a single Catholic in the meet. It's good that many still cherish their Goan identity, but how much Goanity is there left in them? Uday Bhembre concludes: Goans who migrated to Mangalore and Cochin in the 16th and 17th century retained their Konkani language, but we don't call them Goans. Instead, they're Mangaloreans or Cochinites. For how long will the Goans in Europe and the US, who have left their Konkani language and culture, will be recognised as Goans? JUST A COMMENT: The Konkani campaigner's narration of Goa's linguistic reality often overlooks a number of ground level realities. For one, the strong Marathi preference in a section of Goans has more to do with local caste and community realities -- and also the hardline nature of Konkani extremism in Goa -- rather than an illogical position that Udaibab is making it out to be. Secondly, the difficulty of an expat population in keeping abrest with their language is a trend affecting many migrant communities from India (and beyond). It would obviously affect Goans, an infinitely smaller community with a far longer tradition of emigration, in a much more serious way. To say that Goans are "ashamed" to speak Konkani is an exercise in myth-making;
Re: [Goanet]Goenkar, Goeantle ani Goembhaile (Uday Bhembre's views)
--- "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Uday Bhembre has written the lead article in Fausto > V da Costa's 'Goencho > Avaz' (Volume I Issue I) that hit the stands in > April 2005, under the > above title (Goans, in Goa and Outside). > > Goans in Europe, US and Canada have become "pordexi > Goenkars", unlikely to > return back. I had come in contact with a Goan priest based in Karachi. He was born and brought up in Karachi, but yet speaks konkani, though not fluently. When he was here in Melbourne on a year's sabbatical at our parish, we managed a conversation in "Konglish" at various times. However, he was quite critical of the World Goa Day - his complaint was that World Goa Day does absolutely nothing for Konkani or Goa. "You dance and have a good time, but the end result is that you come out of the WGD celebration as ignorant about Goa as you were when you went in", he said, especially with regards to the new generation. I felt quite embarassed by his views, as I myself am guilty of not having passed on the languages I learnt when I was a kid to my progeny - Konkani and Portuguese. Though grown up, I try to teach them a few sentences in both languages now and then, but this is not true imparting of knowledge as they would not be able to converse or joke in either. Mind you, my Konkani is not the same that is taught in schools in Goa today. I know that there is a large effort in promoting Konkani in Portugal. Are there any efforts being made to promote Konkani elsewhere in the world? On the other hand, would Goans settled elsewhere in the world be interested in learning Konkani and imparting the language and the culture to the next generation (other than the oft-beaten mando "Tambde Rosam")? Cheers, Gabriel de Figueiredo. Melbourne - Australia. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
[Goanet]Goenkar, Goeantle ani Goembhaile (Uday Bhembre's views)
Uday Bhembre has written the lead article in Fausto V da Costa's 'Goencho Avaz' (Volume I Issue I) that hit the stands in April 2005, under the above title (Goans, in Goa and Outside). Udaybab puts forth some of the well-known arguments of the Konkani lobby (particularly the Devanagari camp) in Goa. Some of the points he makes includes: * Goa has one language, but not all Goans accept it. Some say Marathi is their mother-tongue, even if they can't speak and write it fluently. * Another type of Goan feels ashamed to speak Konkani. After Portuguese attempts to 'foreignise' him, he has become half foreign and half Goan. If they were true Goans and had tried enough, 43 years after Liberation, they would have learnt to speak Konkani. But they're not ready to do that. * Then, there are some Goans who insult Mons. Dalgado by campaigning for Romi Konkani under his name.One doesn't know if Fr Thomas Stevens' soul is crying or laughing by their cause. Bhembre argues that migratory Goans are of three kinds -- those settled within India, those abroad but planning to return sometime, and those who have migrated more or less permanently. Most Goans in the first category, both Hindu and Catholic, live in Mumbai, he argues. But Hindu Goans there have become "half Maharashtrian" while the Catholic Goans are "half foreign". They lack both unity and a voice in the city of Mumbai. Maharashtra government has done little for them. Even Lata Mangeshkar calls herself a "Maharashtrian". And look at the stereotypes that Hindi films project of Goans. There must be a quarter-million Goans in Mumbai, but they're voiceless, argues Bhembre. Gulf Goans have safeguarded their Konkani traditions. But if the Sheikh-ocracy gives way to democracy, they might opt to stay on their, and it's hard to say what would happen to them then. Goans in Europe, US and Canada have become "pordexi Goenkars", unlikely to return back. Their Goanity has got eroded. In the US, the Goan Hindus and Catholics have separate organisations. Some years back, Udaybab says, when he went to a function at Orlando, US, he found not a single Catholic in the meet. It's good that many still cherish their Goan identity, but how much Goanity is there left in them? Uday Bhembre concludes: Goans who migrated to Mangalore and Cochin in the 16th and 17th century retained their Konkani language, but we don't call them Goans. Instead, they're Mangaloreans or Cochinites. For how long will the Goans in Europe and the US, who have left their Konkani language and culture, will be recognised as Goans? JUST A COMMENT: The Konkani campaigner's narration of Goa's linguistic reality often overlooks a number of ground level realities. For one, the strong Marathi preference in a section of Goans has more to do with local caste and community realities -- and also the hardline nature of Konkani extremism in Goa -- rather than an illogical position that Udaibab is making it out to be. Secondly, the difficulty of an expat population in keeping abrest with their language is a trend affecting many migrant communities from India (and beyond). It would obviously affect Goans, an infinitely smaller community with a far longer tradition of emigration, in a much more serious way. To say that Goans are "ashamed" to speak Konkani is an exercise in myth-making; I think most of those with a migratory background are simply unable to have fluency enough to do so... even if they wanted to. It's like arguing that two Indian computer engineers not carrying out a technical discussion in Hindi are "ashamed" of doing so ;-) Your comments and feedback is welcome. FN _ _/ \Frederick Noronha * Freelance Journalist * Goa \ __\/\ India T +91.832.2409490 M +919822 122436 | | | | \ http://fn.swiki.net http://goabooks.swiki.net |__| |___| / http://www.bytesforall.net http://www.bytesforall.org \/ - Sign up for low-volume, high-quality news summaries and updates from Goa at http://newsfromgoa.swiki.net * It's free and volunteer-driven.