Re: [Goanet] Re: Review of the Review by the Reviewer (to Mario)
It's a deal - as long as the mass becomes sorpotel and I can have some. > --- Elisabeth Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mario done! > I'll buy you a glass of feni at Georgie's bar if you > promise to buy me a kilo of dukra mass at the tinto. > :) > Elisabeth _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Re: Review of the Review by the Reviewer
Hi Gilbert, First you accuse me, than strangely for some reason you portray feelings of empathy. The tons of accusations are from you alone Gilbert! You need to refresh your memory by visiting the archives; hopefully you will be able to focus clearly on what you read, what you understand and able to correctly analyze the posts instead of stubbornly holding to preconceived views. Second, you assume too much. Nobody has emailed me privately on this issue and I am not a journalist. I don't need confusing, badly written and uninformed posts from you to enrich myself. Gilbert, you don't have the slightest idea about book reviews. Victor, with his in-depth knowledge in writing, editing and publishing has patiently explained to you about the business of book reviews. You on the other hand have failed to grasp the basics which you are short of. Instead of thanking Victor for his educative posts, you have once again accused him of being unsupportive of Goan authors. Finally, though late, I hope you have figured out why I post Goa-related articles on this forum. Avelino ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Avelino, I empathize with you. I am in the same boat as you. I am defending the criticism of a Goan author's writings; Because Mehta's review is hitting on Edna Fernandes' work. And all that Goans - D'Souza, Colaco, Pinto, Goveia and Ribeiro did is hit-up on me ... another Goan. And some of them did it above and below the belt, as we have seen. They elected to make an issue of MY WRITINGS rather than the Reviewers' or the contents (and its application) of the Holy Warriors as seen from the reviews. One "poor fellow" speculated on my sleep pattern.:=)) Sure, Goans can always count on another Goan Is not that what we keep saying? It makes me feel better that you are getting, "tons of accusations of all shades and color".:=)) For a moment, I thought that Elisabeth and I were the only cyber-Goans rooting for Edna Fernandes' work. Of course with Elisabeth's masterful analysis of Mehta's review, many must have elected to "watch the display." Consider yourself lucky that most of your critiques have e-mailed you privately. My detractors have done so via a public bulletin board with SOME resorting to what can only described as a "personal smear campaign" all of which was "Off Topic" of course! I am sure this exchange will add to your experience and make you a better journalist. As for me, I can tell the Goan ayatollahs that this has been my hands-on contribution for Goans.:=)) Will they buy my community-seva? Don't you think your response to my original faux pas (retracted with apology) would have been better served :=)) with: "Thank you GL for giving me credit for this review. Yet I did not write it. My sole role as journalist was to forward what has been published elsewhere. I concur with you that Dr. Mehta's review was overly dismissive of Holy Warriors. His unfavorable review gives a different impression than what has been presented by others including Khushwant Singh, which has also been provided." Yet, if it was not for what you started and then Victor, Elisabeth and I continued, this would have been another "lame thread." Instead it was educational to all. More importantly if "Holy Warriors" and this dialogue improves community relations and forestalls even one episode of sectarian violence in Goa and India, it would have been useful. India can ill-afford to repeat its religious and caste-related violent history again and again and again. So the important thing is not to review the book, but to STUDY it and apply its wisdom. I think you, Avelino, are doing a terrific job as a Goan reporter keeping us informed of events in Goa and India. I thank you for it. Good luck to you. Keep up the good work. Kind Regards, GL. ---D'Souza, Avelino Let me remind you once again that I posted the review for awareness of "Holy Warriors" and comments, what I got in bargain are tons of accusations of all shades and color. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Review of the Review by the Reviewer (to Mario)
Mario done! I'll buy you a glass of feni at Georgie's bar if you promise to buy me a kilo of dukra mass at the tinto. :) Elisabeth --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- Elisabeth Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Edna wrote a book, which Pratap reviewed. Pratap > has > > every right to do that, just as we have every > right > > to question the legitimacy of his review. And the > > fact that instead of doing this, we Goans are > > fighting amongst ourselves about airline > > stewardesses and matters of trivia is indicative > > of our politics and our polity. > > > Mario adds: > > > I agree with your conclusions, and I did not > specifically have you in mind when I wrote "others". > > Let's all quit bickering, Goan-style, and just buy > the > book and review it for ourselves. We'll ask Edna to > donate a portion of her windfall revenues to the > home > for retired airline stewardesses, and make it a > win-win situation for all:-)) > > > > _ > Do not post admin requests to the list. > Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Review of the Review by the Reviewer
Gilbert, Instead of all this endless circular "lafda" over reviews that is leading nowhere, why don't you just buy a copy of the book and read it? If you like it, keep it. If you don't, give it away. Case closed. If you feel moved to do so, write your own review. You have already spent more time arguing about reviews than the entire book is worth, and generated more heat than light:-)) > Mario. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi Victor, > > It is always a pleasure and stimulus to dialogue > with an individual who remains on topic. I hope > others can emulate your example. I will do so by > specifically responding to the points you raise with > my reply under each of your paragraphs. > Kind Regards, GL > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Review of the Review by the Reviewer
--- Elisabeth Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Edna wrote a book, which Pratap reviewed. Pratap has > every right to do that, just as we have every right > to question the legitimacy of his review. And the > fact that instead of doing this, we Goans are > fighting amongst ourselves about airline > stewardesses and matters of trivia is indicative > of our politics and our polity. > Mario adds: > I agree with your conclusions, and I did not specifically have you in mind when I wrote "others". Let's all quit bickering, Goan-style, and just buy the book and review it for ourselves. We'll ask Edna to donate a portion of her windfall revenues to the home for retired airline stewardesses, and make it a win-win situation for all:-)) > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Re: Review of the Review by the Reviewer
Dear George, Than you for appreciating the posts I forward. I know people do get confused sometimes, but Gilbert seems perennially confused. Moreover, Gilbert, who has co-authored a fiction story, seems to know little or nothing about reviews. He is irked by Mehta's review of a Goan author; on the other hand he does not miss any opportunity to mindlessly accuse Goans on this forum. I wonder how he lives with such double standards! Best Wishes, Avelino ___ George Pinto wrote: Hi Avelino Please note the adverse response you received was from one confused cybergoan, who has a history of shooting from the hip and embarrassing himself in cyberspace. Many of us value and appreciate your forwards - do not be discouraged. Regards, George --- "D'Souza, Avelino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Gilbert, > Let me remind you once again that I posted the review for awareness of > "Holy Warriors" and comments, what I got in bargain are tons of > accusations of all shades and color. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Review of the Review by the Reviewer
Dear Mario, By "others" I suspect you mean me. It's ok, I'm a big girl, I can take it. I didn't jump on any bandwagon nor should the reasons escape you, as I make them adequately clear in my post. Gilbert may have been amiss in accusing Avelino of writing the review, but what followed was also totally tangential i.e a) a protracted discussion on airline stewardesses and b)Gilbert's initial error. What, we as Goans didn't do was analyse the review by Pratap Mehta and see if it indeed it was a review or just the reviewer's own personal views projected as analysis of Edna's work. It does bother me, that a logical discourse of Pratap Mehta's review did not ensue. Not to belabour this post, since I would rather it die a natural death seeing that it has veered off course completely; but just to state one instance, Pratap Mehta writes this: "This claim is comforting to both fundamentalists and liberals: it is a way some fundamentalists can deny they really are so; and liberals can assert that they really understand what is going on." When Pratap makes this assertion, he is referencing an American definition of the word "liberal", no doubt a throwback to his Harvard days. This definition of the word, nor its juxtaposition to "fundamentalist" exists in the Indian context. I believe, what Gilbert was trying to say (before the Avelino "foot in the mouth" incident",) is how objective is Pratap's review of the work? Has he reviewed it in the context and climate that it is written in, has he reviewed the accuracy of her statements, her documentary? Or is he just imposing his own perceptions by way of "review". Edna wrote a book, which Pratap reviewed. Pratap has every right to do that, just as we have every right to question the legitimacy of his review. And the fact that instead of doing this, we Goans are fighting amongst ourselves about airline stewardesses and matters of trivia is indicative of our politics and our polity. Elisabeth - Mario wrote: > Then some others who had also not read the book > jumped > on the band-wagon, for reasons that escape me. > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Review of the Review by the Reviewer
--- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro wrote: > > You do not like it because it was unfavourable. > Mario observes: > Victor, Excellent exposition of book reviewing and comments on this curious episode. > If we go back to Gilbert's original rant about the review we will see that a) he had not read the book, perhaps had never even heard of it, b) he thought Avelino wrote the review, c) he did not like the wording of the review from which he concluded that d) the hapless Avelino was "cheap", "in keeping with Goan character" and using the review to "claw his way up by stomping on someone else's efforts." Whoa! > Knowing Gilbert, I was a little shocked at his atypical vitriol and uncharacteristic opinion of "Goan character", and chalked up his irritability at the time to his recent promotion to Grandpa, and the fact that he may have had to stay up the previous night singing lullabyes and/or just come from cleaning the baby's poop :-)) > Then some others who had also not read the book jumped on the band-wagon, for reasons that escape me. > Fortunately, all the unnecessary heat eventually generated some well-needed light and Gilbert and the others now know what is really going on, and those who needed to be have been duly "educated" by the sage comments of people like you, who wisely looked before leaping. > I hope all this means that Edna sells lots of books to people who may want to know what all the fuss was about :-)) > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Re: Review of the Review by the Reviewer
Gilbert, I have not read the book "Holy Warriors" which was released recently, so I am not in a position to say about the disparity in reviews written by Khuswant Singh and Pratap Mehta. Even after reading the book, I might not be able to do any justice as reviewing is not my expertise as I don't have in depth knowledge of religious fundamentalists, historical perspectives, psychological understanding, Goa's ever changing Identity to name a few which forms the bench mark to judge "Holy Warriors". Let me remind you once again that I posted the review for awareness of "Holy Warriors" and comments, what I got in bargain are tons of accusations of all shades and color. Avelino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not so fast Elisabeth! Rolling over based on opinions is not for "Huttons." They only roll over based on facts. Neither Avelino nor Victor explain the disparity of the reviews on "Holy Warriors" that was posted. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Review of the Review by the Reviewer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Not so fast Elisabeth! Rolling over based on opinions is not for "Huttons." They only roll over based on facts. Neither Avelino nor Victor explain the disparity of the reviews on "Holy Warriors" that was posted. Khushwant Singh (very renowned in his own right): "This is vividly brought out in Edna Fernandes's powerful book. Holy Warriors is as fair and objective an assessment of the perils that lie ahead for India as any that I have ever read. It is a must for all of those who wish this country to prosper as a secular democracy." Dear Gilbert, Why do you expect me to explain the disparity between the reviews? Must two reviewers think alike? My novel and my short story collection have been praised by some reviewers, and panned by some others. Sometimes, the same qualities that pleased one reviewer displeased another. An author has to take this sort of thing in stride. On your second point, Khushwant Singh is renowned in his particular fields; is he renowned in the field that is pertinent to an appraisal of this book, to the same extent that your bete-noir, Mehta, is? You have invited various individuals to review the book as well. Some have accepted. Were I to write about the book, no sensible person would consider it a review, because I do not have sufficient expertise to judge a book of this character; anything I wrote would be merely an _expression_ of personal opinion, and not to be judged in the same league as Dr. Mehta's! Anyone who writes a professional book deserves a professional review. I believe our author got one. You do not like it because it was unfavourable. Other reviews may surface in time that are more to your liking, but that will in no way change Dr. Mehta's position. He wrote what he felt he needed to write. Regards, Victor _Do not post admin requests to the list.Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)_ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] RE: Review of the Review by the Reviewer
Dear Avelino, I've already eaten crow and humble pie and acknowledged that Pratap Mehta is indeed an author of note. However, I still see red when someone describes goans who want to cling onto their identity as "fundamentalist". This, I cannot stomach. I am one of those Goans, who is very proud to be a Goan and will cling onto my identity till evolution batters it out of me. Elisabeth --- "D'Souza, Avelino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.knowledgecommission.org/members/pbProfile.aspx > > Excerpt from the above link: > > "Dr. Pratap Bhanu Mehta is President and Chief > Executive, Centre for > Policy Research, New Delhi. He was previously > Professor of Government at > Harvard University and Associate Professor of > Government and of Social > Studies at Harvard. He was also Professor of > Philosophy and Law and > Governance, JNU." > > > Avelino > > _ > > Victor Rangel-Ribeiro wrote: > > Elisabeth Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm not too sure about the discussions that > preceded, > but I agree with Gilbert that the review of Holy > Warriors by Pratap Mehta, is disingenuous to say the > least. It is no secret that most reviewers earn > their > bread and butter, trying to be psuedointellectuals > pontificating over material they themselves are > incapable of putting together. Never having > published > anything of note, most reviewers spend their time in > tiny offices (if they are lucky) at major > publications > writing out book reviews when they're not doing food > reviews. As such, they are much like air stewardess' > who having failed to launch their acting careers > spend > their life harassing passengers on discount > airlines. > > Dear Elisabeth, > You have taken Pratap Mehta to task for what you > consider to be > specific > flaws in his review, and that is your prerogative. > But I do think you > are > wrong in stating that "most reviewers earn their > bread trying to be > pseudointellectuals... in tiny offices ... at major > publications." > Reviews of > fiction, at least here in the USA, are written > largely by freelancers > who are > handpicked by editors for having themselves been > published; nonfiction > books > in specialised fields such as music are reviewed not > in the popular > press but > in scholarly publications, by very knowledgeable > people with excellent > credentials. That has been my experience. > I must also add that I have been flying since > 1953, and have yet to > meet the > kind of air stewardess you describe. You must have > had a terrible > experience > with one particular person, but in general I have > found them to be very > helpful even in quite stressful conditions. > Regards, > Victor > > _ > Do not post admin requests to the list. > Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] RE: Review of the Review by the Reviewer
Victorio darling, if I don't stretch the truth (much like Pratap Mehta) every now and then, do you think anyone would read the drivel I write? :)) Lighten up and drink that free beer you get onboard. :)) Elisabeth --- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Elisabeth Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm not too sure about the discussions that > preceded, > but I agree with Gilbert that the review of Holy > Warriors by Pratap Mehta, is disingenuous to say the > least. It is no secret that most reviewers earn > their > bread and butter, trying to be psuedointellectuals > pontificating over material they themselves are > incapable of putting together. Never having > published > anything of note, most reviewers spend their time in > tiny offices (if they are lucky) at major > publications > writing out book reviews when they're not doing food > reviews. As such, they are much like air stewardess' > who having failed to launch their acting careers > spend > their life harassing passengers on discount > airlines. > > Dear Elisabeth, > You have taken Pratap Mehta to task for what you > consider to be specific > flaws in his review, and that is your prerogative. > But I do think you are > wrong in stating that "most reviewers earn their > bread trying to be > pseudointellectuals... in tiny offices ... at major > publications." Reviews of > fiction, at least here in the USA, are written > largely by freelancers who are > handpicked by editors for having themselves been > published; nonfiction books > in specialised fields such as music are reviewed not > in the popular press but > in scholarly publications, by very knowledgeable > people with excellent > credentials. That has been my experience. > I must also add that I have been flying since > 1953, and have yet to meet the > kind of air stewardess you describe. You must have > had a terrible experience > with one particular person, but in general I have > found them to be very > helpful even in quite stressful conditions. > Regards, > Victor > __ > > _ > Do not post admin requests to the list. > Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] RE: Review of the Review by the Reviewer
http://www.knowledgecommission.org/members/pbProfile.aspx Excerpt from the above link: "Dr. Pratap Bhanu Mehta is President and Chief Executive, Centre for Policy Research, New Delhi. He was previously Professor of Government at Harvard University and Associate Professor of Government and of Social Studies at Harvard. He was also Professor of Philosophy and Law and Governance, JNU." Avelino _ Victor Rangel-Ribeiro wrote: Elisabeth Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm not too sure about the discussions that preceded, but I agree with Gilbert that the review of Holy Warriors by Pratap Mehta, is disingenuous to say the least. It is no secret that most reviewers earn their bread and butter, trying to be psuedointellectuals pontificating over material they themselves are incapable of putting together. Never having published anything of note, most reviewers spend their time in tiny offices (if they are lucky) at major publications writing out book reviews when they're not doing food reviews. As such, they are much like air stewardess' who having failed to launch their acting careers spend their life harassing passengers on discount airlines. Dear Elisabeth, You have taken Pratap Mehta to task for what you consider to be specific flaws in his review, and that is your prerogative. But I do think you are wrong in stating that "most reviewers earn their bread trying to be pseudointellectuals... in tiny offices ... at major publications." Reviews of fiction, at least here in the USA, are written largely by freelancers who are handpicked by editors for having themselves been published; nonfiction books in specialised fields such as music are reviewed not in the popular press but in scholarly publications, by very knowledgeable people with excellent credentials. That has been my experience. I must also add that I have been flying since 1953, and have yet to meet the kind of air stewardess you describe. You must have had a terrible experience with one particular person, but in general I have found them to be very helpful even in quite stressful conditions. Regards, Victor _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
