Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran?
-- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The govts of Afghanistan and Iraq were installed by the Americans. The Americans carefully vetted who would be allowed to hold govt positions. Mario responds: The above assertion is completely false as one can expect from Mervyn, who has always been a staunch supporter of the Islamo-fascist oppression in Afghanistan and Iraq. Mario, It's fascinating to watch how your mind does not work. Anyone reading the above would think that your Americans stood by and winked as terrorists, insurgents and Dorito lovers ran for positions in the Iraqi elections/govt. Please confirm if this is the case or not ;-) Secondly, your posts here are starting to give me coulrophobia. (1) In the meantime the Islamo-fascists that Mervyn and his left wing cohorts clearly support, are in their death throes, reduced to targeting and killing innocent civilians in their desperate attempts to deny them freedom and democracy. Mario, Just in case the US press is not reporting it, dead soldiers are being returned to the US at the rate of 12 per day. I am going to ASSume that these US soldiers were killed by the insurgents in Iraq. The only other assumption is that the Americans are killing themselves in Iraq. Then again, there is the possibility that these soldiers just died of fright. Mervyn3.0 (1) The term coulrophobia, the fear of clowns, is a recent coining in response to a surprisingly large amount of interest in the condition, particularly on the Internet. __ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | --
Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran?
-- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- Mervyn wrote: The govts of Afghanistan and Iraq were installed by the Americans. The Americans carefully vetted who would be allowed to hold govt positions. Mario responds: The above assertion is completely false as one can expect from Mervyn, who has always been a staunch supporter of the Islamo-fascist oppression in Afghanistan and Iraq. The US-led coalitions removed the Muslim tyrants in these two countries, and had only an advisory role in the formation of the governments and constitutions and no role is who decided to run as candidates for office. They played no different role than what they did after liberating Germany, Japan and Italy after WW-II, and helping them develop into free democracies. Mervyn writes: In Iraq, the puppet leader does not have control over the road from his residence to the airport. Mario replies: This is another falsehood that Mervyn has been repeating for quite sometime, in language that clearly shows a contempt for the people of Iraq and their elected leaders. The road to the airport in Baghdad has not only been open for several months but commerce is flourishing along many parts of the road, which was cleared by Iraqi forces. Mervyn writes: To most of us, the people of those two countries are under the sadistic and brutal heel of AMERICAN tyrants. Mario responds: The most of us are all left wingers who opposed the liberation of the Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq. These comments are beneath contempt from a Canadian resident whose abysmally weak and feckless country did nothing but try and obstruct the liberations of these two countries. Mervyn clearly demonstrates a heinous contempt for the oppressed people of Afghanistan and Iraq that have been liberated by the US-led coalition, have now had several UN sponsored and supervised elections where millions voted at the risk of their lives, and are going forward in the development of their free and democratic countries. In the meantime the Islamo-fascists that Mervyn and his left wing cohorts clearly support, are in their death throes, reduced to targeting and killing innocent civilians in their desperate attempts to deny them freedom and democracy. -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | --
Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran?
-- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although I have never read Fox News, this was recently dismissed here in some newspapers, as higly biased towards the right-wing. Mario observes: Cornel, An honest observer would watch a news channel before making such biased comments, based on assertions by news media that are as left wing and anti-American as you are. Blind leading the blind. Cornel writes: I happen to be persuaded by what I choose to read/see just as Mario is persuaded by what he chooses to read/see. Mario observes: What is unfortunate is that you are so blinded by your anti-American hatred that you cannot see the woods for the trees. Perhaps the news organizations that persuaded you, an anti-American who has opposed the liberations of Afghanistan and Iraq from the beginning, failed to mention that both Afghanistan and Iraq have now developed written constitutions and are being run by elected governments. Cornel writes: Perhaps, (to the utter ire of Mario I'm sure), I will conclude by drawing on Marx, when he said that capitalism is a conspiracy not by the free market [in relation to the media in this instance] but against it. Mario observes: There we have it, clear written proof that Cornel is a committed communist. No wonder he opposes any attempts at spreading freedom and democracy. History has passed these folks by, communism has been discarded on the thrash heap of history where it belongs, leaving them bitter with hatred in their loss. I hope Santosh is reading this as he recently accused me of insulting Cornel by calling him a communist. -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | --
Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran?
-- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- Mervyn Further to you post below, there is a well known saying that, in times of war, truth is the first casualty. In this context, it becomes clear that two rather different sets of info are coming out about world events generally, and about the situation in Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran in particular. Clearly, like you, I am reading and finding persuasive, media material (TV, radio, and newspapers) most of which sadly provides horrific news and analyses about the current two war zones. But seemingly quite opposite to such media, Mario finds material in Fox News, and the like, persuasive and very acceptable as stated so himself. Although I have never read Fox News, this was recently dismissed here in some newspapers, as higly biased towards the right-wing. Yet, the paradox is that the common producer of Fox News in the USA, and TV Sky News in the UK is Rupert Murdock. I have found Sky News excellent and much more comprehensive than BBC. Therefore, the Murdoch enterprise, by way of example, simply slants news to satisfy different consumer tastes/orientations. I happen to be persuaded by what I choose to read/see just as Mario is persuaded by what he chooses to read/see. Unfortunately, if there is no measure of scepticism about what both sides are reading/seeing there can be no dialogue as such. This is clearly evident in the markedly entrenched opposed positions on this Goanet thread. Perhaps, (to the utter ire of Mario I'm sure), I will conclude by drawing on Marx, when he said that capitalism is a conspiracy not by the free market [in relation to the media in this instance] but against it. Thus, Murdock (as with other media barons) the arch capitalist, makes his money by pushing the media line differently for people to buy and find acceptable. In the UK, he appears to push a left of centre line but in the USA a right of centre line. If this is true, then the antagonistic posters in this particular area on Goanet minimally reflect what is read and seen on TV as source material in different parts of the West and elsewhere. Clearly, global media capitalism may be having the better of us, as well as a field day in current circumstances. Just some quick thoughts. Cornel - Original Message - From: Mervyn Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@goanet.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran? --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Were it not for the sacrifice of these countries, 50 million Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq would still be under the sadistic and brutal heel of Muslim tyrants, Mario, The govts of Afghanistan and Iraq were installed by the Americans. The Americans carefully vetted who would be allowed to hold govt positions. These elected puppets do not have any control over their respective countries. In both countries, the leader of the govt is nothing more than the mayor of the capital, depending on American forces (both public and mercenaries) for his survival. In Iraq, the puppet leader does not have control over the road from his residence to the airport. In Afghanistan, opium production and export is up ten fold since the Americans took over. In Iraq, oil production and export is down. To most of us, the people of those two countries are under the sadistic and brutal heel of AMERICAN tyrants. Mervyn 3 -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | --
Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran?
-- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- On 04/01/06, Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is another attempt by Cornel to sound glib, without making any contribution to the debate or any suggestions on how to address the problem of a recalcitrant Iran. --- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: RESPONSE: George Bush insists that Iran must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. So why, six years ago, did the CIA give the Iranians blueprints to build a bomb? Check it out at http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1678220,00.html What an almighty cock up!!! Mario observes: Almighty cock up - I'm using Gabe's cockney lingo here - is correct. However the almighty cock up was aimed at confusing the Iranians, not helping them, as Gabe has falsely insinuated in his post. It was part of a deliberate disinformation program in the long tradition of disinformation programs perfected by the British during WW-II to confuse the Germans, and used by everyone engaged in geopolical conflicts ever since. Here are the relevent excerpts from the same article posted by Gabe which show this was a disinformation ploy: Excerpt 1. This was just an intelligence-gathering effort, the CIA officer said, not an illegal attempt to give Iran the bomb. He suggested that the Iranians already had the technology he was going to hand over to them. It was all a game. Nothing too serious. On paper, Merlin was supposed to stunt the development of Tehran's nuclear programme by sending Iran's weapons experts down the wrong technical path. The CIA believed that once the Iranians had the blueprints and studied them, they would believe the designs were usable and so would start to build an atom bomb based on the flawed designs. But Tehran would get a big surprise when its scientists tried to explode their new bomb. Instead of a mushroom cloud, the Iranian scientists would witness a disappointing fizzle. The Iranian nuclear programme would suffer a humiliating setback, and Tehran's goal of becoming a nuclear power would have been delayed by several years. In the meantime, the CIA, by watching Iran's reaction to the blueprints, would have gained a wealth of information about the status of Iran's weapons programme, which has been shrouded in secrecy. Excerpt 2. Operation Merlin has been one of the most closely guarded secrets in the Clinton and Bush administrations. It's not clear who originally came up with the idea, but the plan was first approved by Clinton. After the Russian scientist's fateful trip to Vienna, however, the Merlin operation was endorsed by the Bush administration, possibly with an eye toward repeating it against North Korea or other dangerous states. Several former CIA officials say that the theory behind Merlin - handing over tainted weapon designs to confound one of America's adversaries - is a trick that has been used many times in past operations, stretching back to the cold war. -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | --
Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran?
-- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario, To debate with extreme right-wingers, some of whom are virtually fascistic in their thinking, is an exercise in futility. Such extremists are best ignored in my view. Mario observes: Cornel, Your statement is so rich in irony, but typical of a committed left winger. Here we have the entire left wing opposing the liberation and democratization of Iraq, and also opposing the confrontation of the Islamo-fascists whose leaders have recently admitted that their goal is to defeat the west by force and wipe Israel off the map, and YOU think that right-wingers are fascistic - a new word you just made up - in their thinking? This twisting of reality and turning it on it's head is simply breathtaking! It is little wonder that you find Tony Correia-Afonse's comments attractive, since he seems to believe that the Islamo-fascists can be curbed by Chamberlain-like appeasement and corrupt and worthless international organizations and treaties. Don't any of you left wingers KNOW that Bill Clinton tried both appeasement of Islamo-fascism and international treaties with N. Korea and Iran during the 90's and both were brazenly ignored by those countries? Don't any of you left wingers KNOW that Osama Bin Laden unilaterally declared war on the US at the height of Bill Clinton's apeasement-oriented administration, then proceeded to attack the US throughout the 90's with no response? Don't any of you left wingers KNOW that Osama was emboldened by this, and called the US a weak horse and his organization a strong horse as a result and that it led directly to the attack on 9/11? What version of reality do you folks live under? Oh, I know. It is the version that says that Tony Blair was responsible for the bombings in London, and Saddam was a benign humanitarian who had no WMDs, and all those mass graves in Iraq were simply an attempt by the Shia and Kurds to save on funeral expenses. It is little wonder that you wish to ignore reality and find defending your position an excercise in futility. I would feel the same way if I did not have the facts on my side. In the meantime, it is left to the responsible national leaders in the US, UK and Australia, and their coalition, to deal with a country that publicly threatens to wipe a country off the map and seeks nuclear weapons in order to do so. -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | --
Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran?
-- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Were it not for the sacrifice of these countries, 50 million Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq would still be under the sadistic and brutal heel of Muslim tyrants, Mario, The govts of Afghanistan and Iraq were installed by the Americans. The Americans carefully vetted who would be allowed to hold govt positions. These elected puppets do not have any control over their respective countries. In both countries, the leader of the govt is nothing more than the mayor of the capital, depending on American forces (both public and mercenaries) for his survival. In Iraq, the puppet leader does not have control over the road from his residence to the airport. In Afghanistan, opium production and export is up ten fold since the Americans took over. In Iraq, oil production and export is down. To most of us, the people of those two countries are under the sadistic and brutal heel of AMERICAN tyrants. Mervyn3.0 __ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | --
Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran?
-- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- Mario, To debate with extreme right-wingers, some of whom are virtually fascistic in their thinking, is an exercise in futility. Such extremists are best ignored in my view. Cornel - Original Message - From: Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@goanet.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran? -- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- On 04/01/06, Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario observes: This is another attempt by Cornel to sound glib, without making any contribution to the debate or any suggestions on how to address the problem of a recalcitrant Iran. RESPONSE: George Bush insists that Iran must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. So why, six years ago, did the CIA give the Iranians blueprints to build a bomb? Check it out at http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1678220,00.html What an almighty cock up!!! -- Cheers, Gabe Menezes. London, England -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | -- -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | --
Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran?
-- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- On 04/01/06, Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario observes: This is another attempt by Cornel to sound glib, without making any contribution to the debate or any suggestions on how to address the problem of a recalcitrant Iran. RESPONSE: George Bush insists that Iran must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. So why, six years ago, did the CIA give the Iranians blueprints to build a bomb? Check it out at http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1678220,00.html What an almighty cock up!!! -- Cheers, Gabe Menezes. London, England -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | --
Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran?
-- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tony, Blair is already yesterday's man. Minimally, it would be best not to count on such a devious Iraq war-monger in your tongue in cheek advice on world problems. As to Bush, I'm afraid my comments would be unprintable here. Mario observes: This is another attempt by Cornel to sound glib, without making any contribution to the debate or any suggestions on how to address the problem of a recalcitrant Iran. -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | --
Re: [Goanet] Re:How should the world deal with Iran?
-- | Wishing all Goanetters | | a Prosperous | | and | | Happy New Year - 2006 | |Goanet - http://www.goanet.org | -- --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario: My humble suggestion for solving all the world's current problems including Iran - Scrap all international organisations, treaties and conventions established over the past few centuries. Entrust the reponsibility of running the world with full authority to take whatever action they may deem necessary for solving world problems to US President George W. Bush and UK Premier Tony Blair. If they feel that the security of the U.S. and the U.K. demands it, they should be free to blast he rest of the world to high heaven, if required. It may be the only way in which they could carry out their God-given mission of spreading freedom and democracy thoughout the world! Mario responds: As we have seen in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the peaceful capitulation of Lybia, there is no need to blast the world to high heaven, even while a cynical world sat on the sidelines and displayed a callous disregard for the condition of the oppressed Muslim populations in those countries. I hope you agree that all the international organizations and their treaties, especially the UN, have been totally corrupted and ignored as we saw with the 17 UN resolutions defied by Saddam Hussein from 1991 to 2003 and the oil-for-food scandal, and the agreements entered into by N. Korea and Iran, then broken in an amazing defiance of civilized norms. I hope you agree that these same international organizations, especially the UN, have also shown a callous disregard for international tyranny, conflicts, genocides, atrocities and pandemics, as we saw in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kosovo, Rwanda, Burundi, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Somalia and Sudan among other areas, and are seeing in N. Korea and Iran, and continue to see in the HIV-AIDS stricken areas of the world. I hope you agree that democracies tend to not attack their neighbors unilaterally or export terrorism and fascism, that only democracies tend to go to the aid of the oppressed, and therefore, simple sequential logic seems to indicate that spreading freedom and democracy throughout the world is the only common sense way to achieve lasting world peace in the long term - assuming, of course, that lasting world peace is a goal one deems worthy of striving for. Since the rest of the world is either far too weak or short-sighted to see this, it is fortunate that the only countries that have any concern for others and have any spine left, the UK, the US and Australia, along with some of the eastern European countries that have learned to appreciate the freedom and democracy that was previously denied them by the old Soviet Union, also have leaders who are willing to bring their own resources to bear to promote the safety and well being of others. Were it not for the sacrifice of these countries, 50 million Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq would still be under the sadistic and brutal heel of Muslim tyrants, ever ready to join their fellow Islamo-fascists in exporting tyranny, and ever willing to further their 60 year attempt to wipe Israel off the map, as recently confirmed publicly by Ayman al-Zuwahiri and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Prior to WW-II, feckless leaders like Neville Chamberlain let the Nazi genie out of the bottle, and millions had to die in order to bring the Nazis and their partners in evil, the Fascists and Imperialists under control. Those countries, stripped of their evil ideas are now friends and productive members of the world community. Of what's left of the modern Axis of Evil, N. Korea, in my opinion, will be controlled by neighbors most at risk, leaving Iran and Syria that the US and its allies better deal with, or Israel will do so pre-emptively for it's own survival. -- |Goa - 2005 Santosh Trophy Champions | || | Support Soccer Activities at the grassroots in our villages | | Vacationing in Goa this year-end - Carry and distribute Soccer Balls | --
