Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Hi Tony, And to Helga, I branded the Africanisation policy in the railways and in other areas as racist, because it was not like affirmative acction in this country, but literally taking revenge at the British at the cost of the Asians who developed the Railways and government infrastructure. My father's 40 years of experience and the fact that he took Tanzanian nationality was never considered. I believe my father should have been appointed the Head of the Township It took me a while to get reply as I was being pummeled by deadlines - in the meantime several interesting discussions are going on! Sorry Tony but I still find it hard to label as racist the policy of Africanisation. Perhaps it was not implemented properly like the affirmative action program in the USA and (do not forget) India! Unfortunately several states in the USA have reversed Affirmative action and many Americans would like to see it totally abolished. But considering the plight of Africans who for hundreds of years lived under apartheid-like regimes it would need a very special bunch of politicians to bring about a smooth transition. When you see everyone prospering in your country while you live in poverty you want change - history is full of examples of blood baths that resulted from this problem. Unfortunately and through no fault of their own (perhaps?) many Goans like your father suffered the consequences. The British are largely to be blamed for the big mess. Colonization as we all know is never pretty. Let's just say 'asante sana' for the good times and the good opportunities that Africa gave us all! The latest is that Saudi Arabia now recognizes that with all its money it still needs to educate its youth and employ them and is trying a Saudization (spelling?!!!) program. When that happens many of our Goans will once again find themselves expendable. And since , Helga you were born in Nairobi, I am certain your parents must have told you about the three goan clubs in Nairobi. But the third club - The Goan Gymkhana was mainly was Goan Brahmins. And even after it forcibly opened to everyone after Kenya's independence in December 1963, pockets of prejudice still existed. If you were not a brahmin, you would be refused a dance by a Brahmin girl just because of your lower status; I was 3 years old when I returned from Nairobi and no I do not remember my mother telling me anything of these clubs. She was too refined to frequent those anoxic fish bowls. She would rather have spent her time reading Hall Caine - which is where she got my name! So did Goans (excluding of course the bigoted Brahmins and God help them!!!) mix with the Africans? I would like to hear more about that. and I am sure you must heard of the most famous of them all, when the Brahmin father told his daughter that he would burn himself to death if she got married to the low caste guy. But the girl who was adamant about getting married to the guy, had the guts to tell her father that she would supply him with the fuel. Now I know where the tiatristas find their plots! In the milieu of East Africa Goans!!! Regards Helga
Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## . When on holiday in Portugal and especially when attending conferences there, I have been struck by the warm reception I have inevitably received from the indigenous Portuguese as an Irmao or brother. This is clearly, because of my Portuguese name and knowledge of my Goan origins. In four decades, a welcome as a brother has never happened to me in the UK and is unlikely ever to happen. Prof. Cornel irmão, Portugal is not perfect. In the illiterate regions (thanks to Salazar)of Portugal say for example the autonomous islands where the populace do not have a clue of Portugals past, there are pockets of racism. But this is nothing compared to what you have highlighted in your report. (UK). B. Colaço ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## I have to agree with Rui Collaco's post that the attitude to 'coloured' people or to 'visible professional minorities', has been different between Anglo-Saxons and those of Iberian people, especially in the case of the educated Portuguese. When on holiday in Portugal and especially when attending conferences there, I have been struck by the warm reception I have inevitably received from the indigenous Portuguese as an Irmao or brother. This is clearly, because of my Portuguese name and knowledge of my Goan origins. In four decades, a welcome as a brother has never happened to me in the UK and is unlikely ever to happen. I put this to a significant cultural difference between the way Anglo-Saxons invariably see me as the eternal foreigner, however educated, sophisticated or long resident in the UK., even though there is a growing awareness of the unsupportable former colonial position on race with the advent of simple contact, cuisine and even anti-racist education. In contrast, the educated indigenous Portuguese have invariably seen me as Portuguese, regardless of my cordial insistence that I am Indian! One just can't win!! The above situation is also to be found historically in the way the Portuguese saw their black slaves compared to the way Anglo-Saxons saw such black slaves in mainland America. The process of manumission, for example, was significantly different between the two peoples. I have no firm knowledge about racism, prejudice and discrimination in Portugal today but I feel certain that some must exist. Perhaps, a Goanetter could throw some light on this matter in an informed/dispassionate way. Cornel - Original Message - From: Rui Collaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 1:27 AM
Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Hi Mervyn, Many thanks for the info you sent on Dar bands of the 1950s/60s. I also kindly got a lot of detail yesterday from Tony Barros. I did eventually, figure out the name of the DeMello Brothers' from Dar-- the Band which played alongside my group in Mombasa in 1959/60. They were called the Modernaires then but I know that names changed over time with different personnel. Best regards, Cornel - Original Message - From: Mervyn Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Incidentally, I knew two Dar bands--Tony Ferns and the DeMello brothers. I also knew Remy the late sax player. My own group which I led on sax, from Mombasa, played at Spiro's (Greek) hotel in Tanga a couple of times. The DeMello band (regret I can't recall the name of the group), snip I believe he still plays the piano in Toronto but it was sad to discover that Tony Ferns passed away prematurely. I think you are refering to the band The Demello Brothers. Remy moved to the Middle East and played there for some time. He then came to Toronto and had his band here too. Unfortunately, he suffered a heart attack some years ago and is bedridden. The youngest brother, Francis has a one man band here in Toronto. The most famous Goan musician from Tanzania must be George D'souza. He used to have his own 30 minute show on Radio Tanzania on Saturday nights. George looked like and used to sing in the Tom Jones style. He move to Toronto and performed at the Royal York, Toronto's top hotel, for 20 years. Mervyn2.0 __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Tony Barros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My wife-Edna and myself were supposed to attend the dance, but other issues changed our plans. It's 10:30 p.m. and I am certain Merwyn is swinging away - apparently for the first time as a married man. Correct me if I am wrong,Merwyn or was the pix a gimmick. Tony, I am at a loss as to why the people I know best, even after seeing the pictures, still do not believe I got married. Kaplay said he had to get a confirmation from my Mom before he would believe As for Dr. Adolfo Mascarenhas- he was the only fully fledged Professor of the University of Dar es Salaam when I left. Merwyn could enlighten me if there were other appointments-possibly his wife who I believe snaked her way very well up the ladder after heading the University's library. I am not certain of the surgeon-Primo Carneiro. I am quite sure that Ophelia Mascarenhas was a professor prior to me leaving Tanzania. I am forwarding a copy of this to the Tanznite-Goan net where their son Chris is an active member. He will confirm the matter. Dr. Primo Carneiro is a full Professor at the UDSM medical school. His son was here for the Zanzibar function yesterday. Mervyn __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: [Goanet] Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Or are you going through a third party??? Cheers, Eddie Fernandes (i.e. Eddie Fernandes NOT Goan Voice UK) Could you explain the 'NOT' Goan Voice in the first instance rather than questioning others as usual? And why you should be curious of 'Goan Voices'? And who influenced you to do that? Also under foxy 'caption' you come up with hidden agendas. Possibly the one-finger keyboard experience makes you do that. AlmeidaG(ji) -- On our investigation I did conclude that this was the same 'Eddie Fernandes' and that is you. Quote: but the one who posted this message is Eddie Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED], of Goan Voice UK. Unquote. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## - Original Message - From: Goan Voices I have read about this jibe of 'our mutual friend' and 'my friend' between two foxes at some quarter at foxy intervals. If anyone has objection to our posting on this forum, let him stand out and shout 'stop'. The coverage of items as varied on Goa and Goans as we put out/post cannot be matched as well as at the speed. Step out and exercise! The dust may have gathered AlmeidaG(ji) Arre AlmeidaG(ji), You are so cute! You speak with forked tongue to ensure that you cannot be understood. However, no one objects to your postings and neither does anyone dispute that you are the greatest and the fastest!! Since the subject of identities has been aired in this forum recently, I had hoped that you would enlighten us with the reason for the change to Goan Voices. However, keep it flowing! Viva Goan Voices!! Cheers, Eddie Fernandes --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 06/10/2004
Re: Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Eddie Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred, I guess I could not resist the urge to congratulate our mutual friend Almeidaji for his new Goan Voices identity :-) I have read about this jibe of 'our mutual friend' and 'my friend' between two foxes at some quarter at foxy intervals. If anyone has objection to our posting on this forum, let him stand out and shout 'stop'. The coverage of items as varied on Goa and Goans as we put out/post cannot be matched as well as at the speed. Step out and exercise! The dust may have gathered AlmeidaG(ji) __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Fred, I guess I could not resist the urge to congratulate our mutual friend Almeidaji for his new Goan Voices identity :-) You are right - there is a need to build a union catalogue of not only Goa-related books but also important journal articles, early photographs, etc. It would have to be one of the big three in Goa - Goa University, Central Library or Xavier Institute of Historical Research - preferably by all three in collaboration. They have been talking of it long enough. Goa University has, for example, already published, in book form, the bibliographies of the Nuno Gonsalves and Pissurlencar collections. Once they have done that it would be straightforward to add local holdings. Creating the records is a project I cannot envisage as I am strictly a one fingered typist. Re the size of my collection - I have never attempted a count. Also, for example, does one count Goa Today as a single item, as one item per year or by number of issues? Regarding your original enquiry regarding Church records, from Goan Voice UK issue 2003-33, 15 August 2003: Moving Here, a new website, http://www.movinghere.org.uk/ was launched last week. It consists of digitised photographs, maps, objects, documents and audio items recording migration experiences of the past 200 years such as: a.. The Goan contribution to the Royal Navy. a.. Link to the National Archives Office listing of Goan Prisoners of war. a.. Photographs of Goa going back to 1906. a.. British government policy on the migration of Ugandan Asians a.. Details of Roman Catholic Church Records from Goa. There are parish registers for 92 churches that consist of baptisms, marriages and burials and date from the 18th to the 20th century. These can be consulted through world-wide network of Family History Centres, including many in Britain. You can send in an audio or written report of your own experiences or check out the accounts of others As far as I am aware, the Church records have not been digitised and cannot be searched online. Cheers Eddie Fernandes - Original Message - From: Frederick Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 8:33 AM Subject: Re: Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa Eddie, You've dodged the issue, and not quite fallen for my bait ;-) What's the figure now? Secondly, would you be willing to put out a list, somewhere in cyberspace, about the holdings? For my side, I could do the same... this would immensely add to the information about books on Goa. Since the public libraries have their own plans about making details about their holdings available widely via the Internet, maybe individual could take the lead. What say? FN Fred, Not quite 2000 - you have massaged that figure for years :-) However, Almeidaji will explain that my book collection is meant to keep me happy with my profession of dusting them. BTW I see that our schizophrenic friend Almeidaji has changed his pseudonym again, from Goa World to Goan Voices.They do say that imitation is the highest form of appreciation. Thank you Almeidaji :-) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 05/10/2004
Re: Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Eddie, You've dodged the issue, and not quite fallen for my bait ;-) What's the figure now? Secondly, would you be willing to put out a list, somewhere in cyberspace, about the holdings? For my side, I could do the same... this would immensely add to the information about books on Goa. Since the public libraries have their own plans about making details about their holdings available widely via the Internet, maybe individual could take the lead. What say? FN Fred, Not quite 2000 - you have massaged that figure for years :-) However, Almeidaji will explain that my book collection is meant to keep me happy with my profession of dusting them. Frederick Noronha 784 Near Convent, Sonarbhat SALIGAO GOA India Freelance Journalist TEL: +91-832-2409490 MOBILE: 9822122436 http://fn.swiki.net http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks fred at bytesforall.org http://www.bytesforall.org
Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## - Original Message - From: Frederick Noronha(FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you visit the Central Library's Rare Books Section in Goa, I'm sure you will find a lot of references to the subject. Likewise, Eddie Fernandes in London has a 2000+ book collection on Goa. But I don't think he's going to loan you those ;-) FN Fred, Not quite 2000 - you have massaged that figure for years :-) However, Almeidaji will explain that my book collection is meant to keep me happy with my profession of dusting them. Anyway, Gabe already has a copy of the book and wishes to buy more for friends. He can wait for a cheapo deal to Goa and get copies from OIBS in Mapuca OR ask someone in Goa to post copies to him OR ask Teresa Albuquerque for the contact details of her relative in London who has copies of some of her books. BTW I see that our schizophrenic friend Almeidaji has changed his pseudonym again, from Goa World to Goan Voices.They do say that imitation is the highest form of appreciation. Thank you Almeidaji :-) Cheers, Eddie Fernandes --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 05/10/2004
Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Gabe Menezes wrote: RESPONSE: The same author wrote about Goans in Kenya - perhaps that would fit the bill. I have found it difficult to buy a copy for my friends. I bought one years ago. cheers, Gabe. Dr Teresa Albquerque, author of the 'Goans in Kenya' (1999) is a member of Goanet. She can be contacted via email [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you visit the Central Library's Rare Books Section in Goa, I'm sure you will find a lot of references to the subject. Likewise, Eddie Fernandes in London has a 2000+ book collection on Goa. But I don't think he's going to loan you those ;-) FN
Re: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Wrt to the comment of goans in EA having been sparse.at one time ( pre 1900..) Zanzibar was considered an entry point. Ladis DaSilva ( a goan who was born on the island) recounts in his book Through a Doorway in Zanzibar .the employment of goan civil/ mech. engineers and clerks in the service of the Omani Sultanate .I think some link with the coastal strip ( Mombasa , Malindi etc) that was previously occupied by the Portuguese existed. A retired civil servant ? Maciel , now resident in the UK, has penned a pretty good background of the relevant Kenya scene in his novel Bwana Karani One does wonder if goans undertook work in the building of the Mombasa to Uganda railway, ...of course the indentured Indian labourers would have outnumbered the clerically / professionally inclined goans who moved to EA in those days. - Original Message - From: Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 6:50 PM Subject: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## From: Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:49 PM Subject: [Goanet]Goans in East Africa I read the article about the early years of the British in East Africa. Obviously of interest to me was mention of the role of Indians in the time period and specially that of Goans. I was disappointed to read only a 1-2 line reference of their contribution. Perhaps this report was written before the Goans and other Indians arrived in significant numbers. RESPONSE: The same author wrote about Goans in Kenya - perhaps that would fit the bill. I have found it difficult to buy a copy for my friends. I bought one years ago. cheers, Gabe.
