Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat, Palestine
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Alfred, what I remember reading is that the French and other Western countries were US allies helping the US in every way they could to get rid of the Soviets in Afghanistan. They knew the Arabs well and had fought them in many of their colonies so they supplied the US with a lot of intelligence and used the religious card to make the Mujahedeen do most of the work. In fact a French colleague told me that he had read that the 'tactics of torture' witnessed in the Abu Ghraib prison came straight out of the French dossier produced during the Algerian war. I dont think they gave it to the US directly but its been around for the intelligence to read and absorb. Helga > > > But, Helga, the French surely had no colonial influence in Afghanistan, not > even ever selling/brokering arms sales to them. > > They would certainly have wishe to do that but were effectively preempted by > the Us and USSR. > > My best compliments to dear Wiki! > AT
Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat, Palestine
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## From: "Helga do Rosario Gomes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat, Palestine Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:37:27 +0900 But, Helga, the French surely had no colonial influence in Afghanistan, not even ever selling/brokering arms sales to them. They would certainly have wishe to do that but were effectively preempted by the Us and USSR. My best compliments to dear Wiki! AT Fred, in 2005 I am going to call you Wiki ! And another journalist friend (Stacey) told me that they were mulling over relocating the displaced Jews to Alaska? Oddly, post 9/11 we used to read a lot of articles on the role played by the west in bring this 'evil man' Sadaam to power and once the NYT had a small article about how the CIA had supplied satellite imagery to Sadaam showing the movements of the Iranian troops as they approached and probably were poised to take over the small coast that Iraq possesses. For Iraq, losing that would have spelt doom or so the article said. The images gave him the exact location of the troops and then he gassed them and of course they retreated. Nowadays I hardly ever read any analysis about how Saddam came to power, how other Iraqi leaders, unappetizing/unattractive to a West were overthrown and of course what happened in Afghanistan during the Russian occupation. In the latter, I read (also in the NYT) that the French who understand the people of its colonies well, encouraged the Afghanis to kill Russians in the name do God because the Russians as Communists were not supposed to believe in one. What happened to articles such as these? Maybe I should be looking in Wikipedia?!!! Now I want to make one of those smileys but I do not know how to! Helga > > Tim posted a very interesting backgrounder on this issue. > > Since I needed to educate myself about a subject we hardly hear the intricacies > of in this part of the globe, no prizes for guessing (specially for you, Helga) > which was the next URL-destination. Right, it was http://en.wikipedia.org > > _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat, Palestine
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## George, You need to do a lot more homework and catching up after your extended trip to Mars. It is obvious your anti-American sentiment is clouding your facts and judgement. Please see my comments below under Responses: --- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ## > # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] # > # Want to check the archives? > http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# > # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to > reflect respect to others # > ## > > --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > George, > > > > Which planet did you just arrive here from? > George: Planet earth where we get truth from non-Fox News sources. Truth has already prevailed and it is not the right-wing version. Response: No credible news sources support your version, George, which is why the problem continues to fester and people continue to die. > > > Israel should "leave" before negotiations can > begin? Leave and go where? > >George: Back to pre-1967 borders. Response: Whew! I'm glad you cleared that up. I thought you said you wanted them to leave Israel. Unfortunately they will not give back any land they won while defending themselves unless the Palestinians accept their right to exist in peace and security. Unfortunately, since you have just returned from your trip into space, the Islamic militants do not want a 2 state solution. > > > Don't you know anything about how and why Israel > was formed? > George: There is a reason present day Palestinians fight to recover what even hard-core Israeli apologists acknowledge are "occupied territories". > The Palestinians should not be humiliated to negotiate when an outsider is staying in their living room. Kick the intruder out and then negotiate. Arafat was extremely accommodating in trying to negotiate while Israeli genocide is being committed in HIS house. No different than what the USA occupying force (a term even Bush used) is doing to innocent civilians in Iraq while calling them insurgents. Response: The Palestinians were given part of a house in 1947, but they wanted the whole house, and brought a bunch of goondas to help them. Unfortunately, the Israelis routed them and the goondas, and now "occupy" some of what he had. They cannot get any of it back until they agrees to behave themselves in future, which they have refused to do. And they still want the whole house. So the low grade conflict will continue until they behave themselves and stop targeting innocent civilians. Did you know they target innocent civilians, George, using suicide bombers to do so? How would you like that happen to your friends and family? Soon there will be a wall they cannot cross. Since you are still catching up with events, you may not have heard that there was a guy named Saddam Hussein in Iraq who killed hundreds of thousands of his friends and neighbors as well as innocent Iraqis, and Bush decided to kick the bully out. Some of his friends are still fighting, but soon they will be gone as well, and the Israelis will have some freedom and democracy for a change. I hope you don't mind, George, or are you also against freedom and democracy for the Iraqis. Is that why you are such a staunch anti-American, George? > > Regards, > George > > >
Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat, Palestine
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Touche, Gabriel. --- Gabriel de Figueiredo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ## > # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] # > # Want to check the archives? > http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# > # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to > reflect respect to others # > ## > > --- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It is similar to someone going into their > > neighbor's house and making all sort of demands > > and refusing to leave. > > Very interesting, George. I would like to ask the > neighbour who came to assist us in throwing out an > "outsider" to leave as well. They have been > squatting > on our prime land for over 40 years ... > > Gabriel. > > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! > Movies. > http://au.movies.yahoo.com > >
Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat, Palestine
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Please fight for justice wherever you see fit. But > it takes more than words and sending emails - > perhaps I am wrong. Also hijacking discussions to > Dec 1961 probably won't work. Dec 1961 has > been discussed ad nauseum in Goan cyberspace (check > the archives). > > Regards, > George > George, I know that Dec 1961 has been discussed ad nauseum. I also know that I am guilty of hijacking the discussion, taking it off to a different track. I sort of regret doing this, but I have to draw attention to the hyprocrisy that is being spouted. As far as you and many others are concerned, it appears OK for India to occupy Goa, but not so for Israel to occupy Palestine? Common, either you stand for justice, or you don't. The similarities between the two situations are glaring. It is just that on one side, erstwhile USSR sided India in supporting its action; on the other side, US sided Israel. The excuses used for their respective actions were about as good as any excuse (God-given land et al). It is a good thing that we Goans are as "docile" as they come, otherwise there would have been blood spilt on both sides. Gabriel. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat, Palestine
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is similar to someone going into their > neighbor's house and making all sort of demands > and refusing to leave. Very interesting, George. I would like to ask the neighbour who came to assist us in throwing out an "outsider" to leave as well. They have been squatting on our prime land for over 40 years ... Gabriel. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat, Palestine
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Fred, in 2005 I am going to call you Wiki ! And another journalist friend (Stacey) told me that they were mulling over relocating the displaced Jews to Alaska? Oddly, post 9/11 we used to read a lot of articles on the role played by the west in bring this 'evil man' Sadaam to power and once the NYT had a small article about how the CIA had supplied satellite imagery to Sadaam showing the movements of the Iranian troops as they approached and probably were poised to take over the small coast that Iraq possesses. For Iraq, losing that would have spelt doom or so the article said. The images gave him the exact location of the troops and then he gassed them and of course they retreated. Nowadays I hardly ever read any analysis about how Saddam came to power, how other Iraqi leaders, unappetizing/unattractive to a West were overthrown and of course what happened in Afghanistan during the Russian occupation. In the latter, I read (also in the NYT) that the French who understand the people of its colonies well, encouraged the Afghanis to kill Russians in the name do God because the Russians as Communists were not supposed to believe in one. What happened to articles such as these? Maybe I should be looking in Wikipedia?!!! Now I want to make one of those smileys but I do not know how to! Helga > > Tim posted a very interesting backgrounder on this issue. > > Since I needed to educate myself about a subject we hardly hear the intricacies > of in this part of the globe, no prizes for guessing (specially for you, Helga) > which was the next URL-destination. Right, it was http://en.wikipedia.org > >
Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat, Palestine
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## George, Which planet did you just arrive here from? Israel should "leave" before negotiations can begin? Leave and go where? Don't you know anything about how and why Israel was formed? Aren't you aware that Jews have been in Palestine since Old Testament days? Aren't you aware that Israel was formed with UN approval? Aren't you aware that there was a similar UN approved partition in India at about the same time? No, it is not similar to someone going into their neighbor's house and making all sort of demands and refusing to leave. It is like getting a house as part of a legal civil arrangement, and one disgruntled party refusing to accept and abide by the arrangement, then trying to get their way by force instead of through negotiations. --- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ## > # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] # > # Want to check the archives? > http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# > # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to > reflect respect to others # > ## > > I do not find it interesting that those attacking > Israel should first make concessions first. > Israel is an occupier, it should first leave then > negotiations can begin about maps, security, > etc. It is similar to someone going into their > neighbor's house and making all sort of demands > and refusing to leave. Israel should first leave, > then the negotiations can begin about security > and long-term existence. Till then, the Palestinians > are compelled to use force to remove an > unwelcome neighbor. > > Regards, > George > > > --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I find it interesting that all those attacking > Israel > > and its security guarantee by the US, while > claiming > > to value life, NEVER ask for a cease fire by all > > parties and for peaceful negotiations to begin, > and > > NEVER ask ask for an acceptance by the Arabs of > > Israel's right to exist in peace and security. > > >
Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat, Palestine
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Tim posted a very interesting backgrounder on this issue. Since I needed to educate myself about a subject we hardly hear the intricacies of in this part of the globe, no prizes for guessing (specially for you, Helga) which was the next URL-destination. Right, it was http://en.wikipedia.org That volunteer-driven encyclopaedia has some fascinating material on Israel, Zionism and anti-Zionism. Check it out for yourself. Just place each term you need info on, in the 'search' box of the homepage of Wikipedia. [Incidentally, it points out that Herzl's Der Judenstaat -- The Jewish State -- argued for a land in Palestine seen as "our ever-memorable historic home", or Argentina "one of the most fertile countries in the world" while in 1903 British proposed land for a Jewish state in what was then Uganda, but would have fallen in modern-day Kenya.] And no, I have no stake in promoting the Wikipedia (apart from thinking that it's a great idea, contains some excellent stuff, and tried posting content to it's Goa page a few times -- you can too!) FN
