Re: [Goanet] Foo will titch our chillren English? (Surely not Selma!)
--- Goanet Classifieds --- Enescil, a Brazilian engineering firm requires Engineers, Architects and Draftsmen, proficient in AutoCAD, for their new office in Goa Those interested can email enescil@gmail.com by 15 November 2011 Selected candidates will be sent to Brazil for 2 months training --- One cannot but disagree with Selma on her perspective below. The cut-and-paste quilt of various facts and info-tidbits, while not incorrect in the details, presents a wholly misleading picture of the situation as it is. Even before Selma posted this, I happened to come across this Guardian story of how the disempowered in India see English as a road to upwardly mobility. It would be a big mistake, in my view, to dump the baby with the bathwater. Or to be obsessed about "low standards". See India's outcasts put faith in English Dalits are building a temple in honour of a language they believe can liberate them from the oppressions of the caste system http://bit.ly/ttjjMS While Selma could get access to the Queen's English (whether in the Gulf or the UK), most of us will have to make do with the Hinglish or Konklish version of it. And why not? It has served us well, it allows us to communicate, and it enables us to earn a livelihood. In any case, India is going to become the country with the largest English speaking population in the world. Currently we are at #2, after the US, but ahead of the Philippines. I think these figures could be underestimates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population So, while we might speak it badly, we'll simply have the chance of calling it Indian English, or Goan English (if you have Singlish in Singapore, why not!). As Jose Colaco has argued elsewhere, I too agree that the Goan women are better than us guys in speaking English. Or maybe writing it too. (They're generally better in all the language departments.) Maybe it is a problem when some try to affect 'foreign' accents, instead of just going 'natural' and speaking as they do, in intelligible English. On the weekend, we had a talk in Goa by the ex-Principal of Sophia College, Sr Mary Braganza. Institutions like this and St Xavier's (in Bombay) have shaped a generation and more of Goan women and men leaders of society. Perhaps the fact that we have so few institutions of excellence here, and that those who get their education here, spend the best part of their lives overseas, also adds to the problem. Added to this, we get told off by the Selmas for our poor standards, which is like pouring salt (or vinegar) into one's wounds! We should not see the glass as half-empty, but rather as half-full. There would be many who have done well for themseves in Goa, and from Goa, in the world of English. Just that we have maybe not spent time to list them: QUOTE Spoken Indian English is often the butt of jokes by "educated" British, American and Indian English-speakers alike as is evidenced by such characters as Peter Sellers' Indian party-goer in the movie The Party and the Simpsons' convenience-store owner Apu Nahasapeemapetilon; there is also no dearth of jokes among Indians 'riffing' the pronunciation and idiomatic inconsistencies of Indian English (see External Links at bottom). However, in spite of banter regarding colloquial English, India has a consistent and long record of pre- and post-Independence thinkers and writers whose writings and speeches are attestations to many Indians' absolute mastery of the language. Among others, Swami Vivekananda, Rabindranath Tagore, C Rajagopalachari,Shri Aurobindo Ghosh, Jawaharlal Nehru, the world-famous novelist R K Narayan, and Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan come to mind as prominent figures whose English, often though not always written, was of the highest quality in any country. Many more contemporary Indians, such as Vikram Seth and Salman Rushdie, are acknowledged masters of English literary style. Indian English writers and English writers of Indian origin – notably Booker Prize winners Salman Rushdie and Arundhati Roy – have in addition made creative use of more stereotypical Indian English through the mouths of characters in their works. http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Indian_English ENDQUOTE I do agree with the problems we've long faced with English-language publications (and even books) in Goa. We've been suffering this (or, should I say, the readers have been suffering it) since the 1980s, as far as I know. Veteran journalists like Lambert Mascarenhas recently said it was a bigger disaster in the 1960s, when Portuguese typesetters wer
Re: [Goanet] Foo will titch our chillren English? (Surely not Selma!)
--- Goanet Classifieds --- Enescil, a Brazilian engineering firm requires Engineers, Architects and Draftsmen, proficient in AutoCAD, for their new office in Goa Those interested can email enescil@gmail.com by 15 November 2011 Selected candidates will be sent to Brazil for 2 months training --- On 20 November 2011 09:16, Mervyn Lobo wrote: > The invigilator, a fellow Goan of Tanzania, told me to make sure I ticked > the box saying English is my native language. I was surprised at the time. > The invigilator, who will be reading this, requested me to do so as she > knew what the results would be. I scored either 98% or 99% on that test. > Mervyn, Interesting. So do you think that a lot of Goans answering the TOEFL might be creating the Kurzon Dilemma, by claiming that Konkani is their mother-tongue (and by implication, primary spoken language)? FN --- Protect Goa's natural beauty Support Goa's first Tiger Reserve Sign the petition at: http://www.goanet.org/petition/petition.php ---
Re: [Goanet] Foo will titch our chillren English? (Surely not Selma!)
--- Goanet Classifieds --- Enescil, a Brazilian engineering firm requires Engineers, Architects and Draftsmen, proficient in AutoCAD, for their new office in Goa Those interested can email enescil@gmail.com by 15 November 2011 Selected candidates will be sent to Brazil for 2 months training --- On 20 November 2011 03:46, Mervyn Lobo wrote: > > > Those living in the USA understand this. In a few years, those > living in India and China will be challenging the English with > new words, expressions and forms of writing/speaking the > language. > > Mervyn > RESPONSE: You are right, like speaking pukka English!. -- DEV BOREM KORUM Gabe Menezes. --- Protect Goa's natural beauty Support Goa's first Tiger Reserve Sign the petition at: http://www.goanet.org/petition/petition.php ---
Re: [Goanet] Foo will titch our chillren English? (Surely not Selma!)
--- Goanet Classifieds --- Enescil, a Brazilian engineering firm requires Engineers, Architects and Draftsmen, proficient in AutoCAD, for their new office in Goa Those interested can email enescil@gmail.com by 15 November 2011 Selected candidates will be sent to Brazil for 2 months training --- Frederick FN Noronha wrote: Mervyn, Interesting. So do you think that a lot of Goans answering the TOEFL might be creating the Kurzon Dilemma, by claiming that Konkani is their mother-tongue (and by implication, primary spoken language)? --- FN, As you can imagine, there is a Catch 22 or irony when one is taking a "Test of English as Foreign Language" and marks of English as his/her native tongue. I think my invigilator suggested I claim English as my native tongue because she did not want to go thru the hassle (again) of confirming the results or raising eyebrows as to how well the test was conducted in Tanzania. On a different note, I believe all Goans in Tanzania speak English more fluently than Konkani. In fact, those born in Tanzania after independence speak Kiswahili as well as they speak English. The only time you will hear a young person speak Konkani is when s/he is trying to communicate with the grand-parents. Mervyn --- Protect Goa's natural beauty Support Goa's first Tiger Reserve Sign the petition at: http://www.goanet.org/petition/petition.php ---
Re: [Goanet] Foo will titch our chillren English? (Surely not Selma!)
--- Goanet Classifieds --- Enescil, a Brazilian engineering firm requires Engineers, Architects and Draftsmen, proficient in AutoCAD, for their new office in Goa Those interested can email enescil@gmail.com by 15 November 2011 Selected candidates will be sent to Brazil for 2 months training --- On 20 November 2011 22:08, Mervyn Lobo wrote: > As you can imagine, there is a Catch 22 or irony when one is taking > a "Test of English as Foreign Language" and marks of English as > his/her native tongue. Talking about which, I am amazed how geography, expectations and racism sometimes shows up in the early 21st century. When I did a review of the late Dr. Cleo Odzer's book *Goa Freaks* (recommended reading if anyone wants to understand one interpretation of hippy tourism in Goa, but hard to locate), the author appeared a bit surprised that I could write in passable English. The review, for those who might be curious (remember the cat anyway!), is here: http://www.amazon.com/Goa-Freaks-Hippie-Years-India/product-reviews/156201059X Then, I have this friend, who is an IIT-educated engineer based in New Delhi. Patrice Reimens will know whom I'm talking about :-) Apparently, some Western lady journalist (British, I think) rang him up late one night, and asked him for some comment on some subject. Now, not everyone is flattered when a journalist (or even a foreign journalist) rings up, particularly if it's late at night, I guess. AM narrated to me how the conversation went, and I quote from memory: BLJ (British Lady Journalist): Can we do a short interview? AM: Not now really BLJ: Oh, but you speak good English... AM: ... and so do you! That was that, I guess! Maybe sometime in the 22nd or 23rd century, we will be able to break the link between the brown skin and a poor quality of English. Or, for that matter, between the plebs (and the less affluent) and poor English. I'm sure it need not be that way till kingdom come... Already, our good friend Dr Luis Dias is taking his dream forward and teaching streetkids how to play the violin! That too in Goa... To those who have dreams, I dare you: come back (at least for awhile) and show what you can do! FN --- Protect Goa's natural beauty Support Goa's first Tiger Reserve Sign the petition at: http://www.goanet.org/petition/petition.php ---
