Re: [Goanet] Goan emigration -- 3 (Herald August 2 )
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Nothwithstanding Antonio Menezes' grudge against the "high-caste fellas", I really wonder whether caste really played a part in education in Parochial schools. Valmiki has some investigation to perform in this regard :-). First of all, to which segment of population was the the Vavraddeancho Ixxt aimed at? Secondly, did the Parochial schools impart only music? or was it in addition to the basics of reading and arithmetic? I ask because I am puzzled. Many musicians of the Goa Symphony Orchestra of 1952 were field workers, who were searched for in the muddy fields of Salcette and Sanguem. They not only could play very effectively, as reported to me by a now-retired octogenerian musician in London, Antonio "Oboe" Noronha, but as far as I could ascertain, they could also read, write and keep "contas". Gabriel - Original Message From: Antonio Menezes To: goanet Sent: Sunday, 2 August, 2009 5:35:47 PM Subject: [Goanet] Goan emigration -- 3 (Herald August 2 ) Antonio responds: I fully agree with what Valmiki has written ecept when he writes "" a large idle population of educated and not so ''' It somehow gives the impression that Goans who migrated to India were 90% educated and 10% illiterate whereas in reality it was the other way around i.e. 90% illiterate and 10% literate. The latter were mostly from the so called high castes fellas who were educated inthe parochial schools.. Thanks to the Grande Patriarca Portugues das Indias Orientais and his sacerdotal assistants comprising of the highest caste made by the Indian God, the illiterate Goan catholics were more at home with Jezu, Jezu than with A,B,C, and 1,2,3, Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Re: [Goanet] Goan emigration -- 3 (Herald August 2 )
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html I don't intend getting drawn into one of those classic Goanet debates. But if Antonio Menezes, whose writing I admire, re-reads what I wrote, he may perhaps realise I indicated no proportion or percentage of educated and not-so-educated Goans who emigrated to British India. And did the church in Goa really deny "education to the poor?" Maybe I have to learn more, but my impression was that close on the heels of the colonial state, it was the church that imparted -- other than Jezu, Jezu -- instruction in the ABCs, 123s and DoReMis. Despite the *Grande Patriarca Portugues das Indias Orientais* or whatever his honorific title! -v - Original Message - From: "Antonio Menezes" To: "goanet" Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:28 PM Subject: [Goanet] Goan emigration -- 3 (Herald August 2 ) Antonio responds: I fully agree with what Valmiki has written ecept when he writes "" a large idle population of educated and not so ''' It somehow gives the impression that Goans who migrated to India were 90% educated and 10% illiterate whereas in reality it was the other way around i.e. 90% illiterate and 10% literate. The latter were mostly from the so called high castes fellas who were educated inthe parochial schools.. Thanks to the Grande Patriarca Portugues das Indias Orientais and his sacerdotal assistants comprising of the highest caste made by the Indian God, the illiterate Goan catholics were more at home with Jezu, Jezu than with A,B,C, and 1,2,3, The Goan catholic church may not have been entirely wrong in denying education to poor Goan catholics. Teotonio R.De Souza writing on Medieval Goa ( Herald Aug 1 ) quotes St. Paul writing toRomans ''''Noli propter escam destruere opus Dei --- Do not destroy God's work for the sake of food.''''
[Goanet] Goan emigration -- 3 (Herald August 2 )
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Mr. Valmiki Faleiro has very succintly described the modern times Goan emigration as follows: ( and it is worth repeating word by word0 ' A queer British interlude in Goa ( 1799 - 1813 ) spurred the largest, longest, and yet surviving wave of Goan emigration , initially to the rest of India and on high seas ( Royal navy and merchant navy ) Then to Burma and Bahrain . And finally to British (East ) Africa,West Asia ( petro dollar Gulf area) and beyond ( U.K., Canada, U.S.A. , Australia and New Zealand. While in Goa the British spotted two assets: one natural (Mormugao Harbour and it connection to the hinterland Western Portuguese Railway WIP ) and the other human which was a large idle population of educated and not so , well acquainted with European life style ( read non vegetarian food) and hence mostly Goan ABC staff in British households in India followed by 2nd and 3rd generation clerks)' Antonio responds: I fully agree with what Valmiki has written ecept when he writes "" a large idle population of educated and not so ''' It somehow gives the impression that Goans who migrated to India were 90% educated and 10% illiterate whereas in reality it was the other way around i.e. 90% illiterate and 10% literate. The latter were mostly from the so called high castes fellas who were educated inthe parochial schools.. Thanks to the Grande Patriarca Portugues das Indias Orientais and his sacerdotal assistants comprising of the highest caste made by the Indian God, the illiterate Goan catholics were more at home with Jezu, Jezu than with A,B,C, and 1,2,3, The Goan catholic church may not have been entirely wrong in denying education to poor Goan catholics. Teotonio R.De Souza writing on Medieval Goa ( Herald Aug 1 ) quotes St. Paul writing toRomans Noli propter escam destruere opus Dei --- Do not destroy God's work for the sake of food.
