Re: [Goanet] India (or Goa)... and dirt / SC on India (or Goa)...and dirt
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Goa Sudharop Annual Awards
January 5, 2011 - 3:45 - 6:30pm
Hotel Mandovi, Panaji, Goa
Details at: http://bit.ly/GoaSudharop2011
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Hi Tony,
In a way you are right and in many ways you may be wrong.
Whatever age bracket you belong to, I suppose you wrote what you wrote
through life experience.
Hope (if you are married) your children (if you have and when they grow)
will not push out of the next to procure Portuguese identity and/or go
overseas.
Do let us know if any of your relatives have migrated.
Happy New Year 2011.
Oscar C. Lobo
Melbourne.
From: Tony de Sa
What I object to most strongly is the stereotyping of Indians as "Filthy".
Today, in Mapusa, I saw a white - meaning ethnic Caucasian - and he was
filthy as ever, dressed in dirty clothes, hair clearly unwashed for
ages, skin full of accumulated dirt.
People in Europe do not bathe for long periods of time. I have first
hand accounts of this.
Could I stereotype all Caucasians as filthy on the basis of this?
---
NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services'
Copies now available at:
GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038),
Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva & Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714),
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Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse
Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288)
MUMBAI: David & Co (22019010)
PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327)
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ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com/booksdistri.htm,
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---
Re: [Goanet] India (or Goa)... and dirt / SC on India (or Goa) ...and dirt
royed. Is it any wonder that plague has become endemic in India? Any other result is impossible where passengers always leave some dirt where they go and take more on leaving. On Indian trains alone passengers smoke with impunity in all carriages irrespective of the presence of the fair sex and irrespective of the protest of non-smokers. And this, notwithstanding a bye-law which prevents a passenger from smoking without the permission of his fellows in the compartment which is not allotted to smokers. = Fast-forward to April 2008, when I paid a "touristic" visit to Delhi and its environs. No wonder, I said to myself then, that people in "high places" think Goa is a "paradise". The roadsides just outside the capital were strewn with dirt, rubbish and rubble. There was an overflowing sewer near the Red Fort (Old Delhi), and just next to this overflow was a cart selling sliced water-melon. The slices were covered with flies. I was amazed when an army recruit bought a whole plateful of these fly-encrusted water-melon slices and rush to his waiting truck - these guys must be having cast-iron stomachs! This description of mine is comparable to what Gandhi described in 1917. So, has anything changed since then re hygiene and cleanliness? Gabriel. - Original Message > From: Santosh Helekar > To: estb. 1994!Goa's premiere mailing list > Sent: Mon, 3 January, 2011 6:38:29 AM > Subject: Re: [Goanet] India (or Goa)... and dirt / SC on India (or Goa) > ...and >dirt > > --- > http://www.GOANET.org > --- > > NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' > With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) > former Chief of Indian Army Staff > and Governor, Punjab & Administrator, Chandigarh UT > > > For copies of this book see footer of this message > > --- > > It looks like there is a serious misunderstanding in the post appended below >regarding Tony de Sa's assertions. It is clear that what Tony implied was that >most non-resident Goans who write on Goanet are Indian by lineage, not >nationality. In other words their genes are predominantly derived from at >least >one of the four genetically distinct original tribes that settled on the >Indian >subcontinent. > > Cheers, > > Santosh > --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' Copies now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038), Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva & Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714), Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David & Co (2730326), Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288) MUMBAI: David & Co (22019010) PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327) BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800) DELHI: Ritana (24617278) ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com/booksdistri.htm, http://goa1556.goa-india.org ---
[Goanet] India (or Goa)... and dirt / SC on India (or Goa) ...and dirt
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab & Administrator, Chandigarh UT For copies of this book see footer of this message --- On Sun Jan 2 07:25:30 PST 2011, Frederick Noronha fredericknoronha at gmail.com wrote : <<<2011/1/2 Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão I am here also reminded of a colleague of mine who had said in Konkani: “Dukor Kednai Ghu Sodta?” Doc, this indicates a bias against pigs... COMMENT : Hey! I am not biased against the pigs. They are my most favourite. Even when I was a kid I had a small piggy eating out of my hands jackfruits and mangoes; the snaps of whom I still cherish. They are the most affectionate, next to dogs. I only meant that they do not compromise to their favourite menu. Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão. --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' Copies now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038), Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva & Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714), Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David & Co (2730326), Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288) MUMBAI: David & Co (22019010) PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327) BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800) DELHI: Ritana (24617278) ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com, http://goa1556.goa-india.org ---
Re: [Goanet] India (or Goa)... and dirt / SC on India (or Goa) ...and dirt
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab & Administrator, Chandigarh UT For copies of this book see footer of this message --- It looks like there is a serious misunderstanding in the post appended below regarding Tony de Sa's assertions. It is clear that what Tony implied was that most non-resident Goans who write on Goanet are Indian by lineage, not nationality. In other words their genes are predominantly derived from at least one of the four genetically distinct original tribes that settled on the Indian subcontinent. Cheers, Santosh P.S. The claims involving the role of education in the said post quite obviously do not comport with observable facts. Before 1961 the level of literacy in Goa and India was significantly lower than what it is today, especially among the less privileged. --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão wrote: > > 1- Indians are by and large filthy. It is not taking just a > handful > of example and generalising. When I first went to Dubai in > the UAE in 1980, I > stayed at Al Faiidi Stret. It was clean, not many > buildings. It is the old > Dubai market Street ending with the Dhow ferry point which > took traders and > public to Deira market. Those days the UAE would give only > Muslims and > Christians work visas easily. But when recently I visited > the Al Faiidi St., it > was not only littered with some trash but the worst was the > sides of the > streets and some corners were red with spit of paan. > Indians do not spit, > urinate or throw garbage on their own walls or in their own > house; be it even a > hut or slum, but will do so everywhere else. Where I worked > we used to be very > strict on housekeeping and we used to chastise the Indians > and tell them to > dirty their own homes and see how their wives would react. > > 2- Tony is mistaken that the critics on the forum are > Indians by > birth. May be Tony is unaware that they were made Indians > by an Ordinance > passed post 1961. Secondly, I have yet to read in science > that DNA test can > determine Nationality. Maybe some scientist on the forum > could throw some light > ( I mean site) on this issue. > > 3- Those who say that Goans > (not the present generation); are different from Indians > are very much > correct. The question of ancestry does not arise here. It > is the education, > civilisation, integrity and morality that the virtues > differ from Indians in > general and appreciated the world over. This is what is > polluted with the > present generation due to Indian environment and > misinterpretation of “Freedom > & Liberation”. > > 4- And lastly, to change this attitude of the Indian, is > only > educating them since young in schools. It is a long term > investment just like > the Goans attained and maintained after centuries of strict > implementation. > Which I am sure will be impossible given the Government and > political setup. I > am here also reminded of a colleague of mine who had said > in Konkani: “Dukor > Kednai Ghu Sodta?” > --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' Copies now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038), Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva & Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714), Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David & Co (2730326), Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288) MUMBAI: David & Co (22019010) PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327) BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800) DELHI: Ritana (24617278) ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com, http://goa1556.goa-india.org ---
Re: [Goanet] India (or Goa)... and dirt / SC on India (or Goa) ...and dirt
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab & Administrator, Chandigarh UT For copies of this book see footer of this message --- 2011/1/2 Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão I am here also reminded of a colleague of mine who had said in Konkani: “Dukor Kednai Ghu Sodta?” Doc, this indicates a bias against pigs... QUOTE It is fairly common to hear the phrase ’sweating like a pig’ to describe a person who is perspiring profusely. However pigs do not sweat in the way that we do because they do not have sweat glands, so they need to roll in mud to cool themselves down and protect themselves from the sun. The mud also helps them to get rid of any fleas or parasites on the pigs skin because the mud cracks off as it dries, taking the parasites with it. Perhaps the need to roll in mud is why they are thought of as dirty, but pigs are actually very clean animals, they will not soil their living or eating areas unless they are forced to by the circumstances in which they are kept. QUOTE Read more: http://scienceray.com/biology/zoology/are-pigs-the-most-misunderstood-creatures-in-the-animal-kingdom/#ixzz19tM2Pu1C Just as it is very easy to have the mental image of someone poor and believe them to be "dirty"! FN Frederick Noronha :: +91-9822122436 :: +91-832-2409490 --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' Copies now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038), Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva & Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714), Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David & Co (2730326), Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288) MUMBAI: David & Co (22019010) PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327) BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800) DELHI: Ritana (24617278) ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com, http://goa1556.goa-india.org ---
Re: [Goanet] India (or Goa)... and dirt / SC on India (or Goa) ...and dirt
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab & Administrator, Chandigarh UT For copies of this book see footer of this message --- 1- Indians are by and large filthy. It is not taking just a handful of example and generalising. When I first went to Dubai in the UAE in 1980, I stayed at Al Faiidi Stret. It was clean, not many buildings. It is the old Dubai market Street ending with the Dhow ferry point which took traders and public to Deira market. Those days the UAE would give only Muslims and Christians work visas easily. But when recently I visited the Al Faiidi St., it was not only littered with some trash but the worst was the sides of the streets and some corners were red with spit of paan. Indians do not spit, urinate or throw garbage on their own walls or in their own house; be it even a hut or slum, but will do so everywhere else. Where I worked we used to be very strict on housekeeping and we used to chastise the Indians and tell them to dirty their own homes and see how their wives would react. 2- Tony is mistaken that the critics on the forum are Indians by birth. May be Tony is unaware that they were made Indians by an Ordinance passed post 1961. Secondly, I have yet to read in science that DNA test can determine Nationality. Maybe some scientist on the forum could throw some light ( I mean site) on this issue. 3- Those who say that Goans (not the present generation); are different from Indians are very much correct. The question of ancestry does not arise here. It is the education, civilisation, integrity and morality that the virtues differ from Indians in general and appreciated the world over. This is what is polluted with the present generation due to Indian environment and misinterpretation of “Freedom & Liberation”. 4- And lastly, to change this attitude of the Indian, is only educating them since young in schools. It is a long term investment just like the Goans attained and maintained after centuries of strict implementation. Which I am sure will be impossible given the Government and political setup. I am here also reminded of a colleague of mine who had said in Konkani: “Dukor Kednai Ghu Sodta?” ORIGINAL message:Tony de Sa Fri, 31 Dec 2010 06:40:24 -0800What I object to most strongly is the stereotyping of Indians as "Filthy". Today, in Mapusa, I saw a white - meaning ethnic Caucasian - and he was filthy as ever, dressed in dirty clothes, hair clearly unwashed for ages, skin full of accumulated dirt. People in Europe do not bathe for long periods of time. I have first hand accounts of this. Could I stereotype all Caucasians as filthy on the basis of this? Again another question, the critics on this forum who say Indians are filthy aren't they themselves Indians by birth? I can hear a voices from afar saying but I am Goan. Please, Sir/ Madam, do a DNA check. Go to an anthropologist/ Geneticist/ Genealogist or who ever and confirm whether you are Indo-Aryan or Dravidian. No but I can hear protests - "We are Canadian, Australian, American, British, French, Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish, Kenyan, ." True, agreed. But you are one or the other of these by virtue of Nationality. Disabuse your self from the notion that you are the genuine 24 carat thing. Nationality is a mere piece of paper, a certificate conferring certain rights and restrictions on you. Fact is that you are a plain Indian (Indo Aryan or Dravidian) descended from a Hindu lineage unless of course there was a swashbuckling Caucasian down the line who did the trick. Are those who say that 'Goans' (pre '61 or otherwise} are different from "Indians' implying that Goans have a different ancestry? If you are prepared to say that WE Indians are filthy, dirty, corrupt, irreverent, immoral, ad nauseam, then let us rock and roll and get down to brass tacks and work out practical solutions to the problem of filth, squalor, ignorance, poverty and whatever ills plague society at large. While non resident Goans are free to express opinions, I do not take kindly to their sermonizing. Yes things are different here, mindsets are different from those in your adopted countries. As Roland said earlier, taking a positive attitude and doing something to bring about change will do the trick, So you live abroad, and you feel concerned about your mother land, then don't just blow hot air. Do something about it. Thank God for the Mother Theresas, The Fr. Lyons, The George Pintos of this world. -- Tony de Sa. tonydesa at gm
[Goanet] India (or Goa)... and dirt / SC on India (or Goa) ...and dirt
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab & Administrator, Chandigarh UT Copies now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038), Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva & Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714), Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David & Co (2730326), Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288) MUMBAI: David & Co (22019010) PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327) BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800) DELHI: Ritana (24617278) ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com, http://goa1556.goa-india.org --- What I object to most strongly is the stereotyping of Indians as "Filthy". Today, in Mapusa, I saw a white - meaning ethnic Caucasian - and he was filthy as ever, dressed in dirty clothes, hair clearly unwashed for ages, skin full of accumulated dirt. People in Europe do not bathe for long periods of time. I have first hand accounts of this. Could I stereotype all Caucasians as filthy on the basis of this? Again another question, the critics on this forum who say Indians are filthy aren't they themselves Indians by birth? I can hear a voices from afar saying but I am Goan. Please, Sir/ Madam, do a DNA check. Go to an anthropologist/ Geneticist/ Genealogist or who ever and confirm whether you are Indo-Aryan or Dravidian. No but I can hear protests - "We are Canadian, Australian, American, British, French, Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish, Kenyan, ." True, agreed. But you are one or the other of these by virtue of Nationality. Disabuse your self from the notion that you are the genuine 24 carat thing. Nationality is a mere piece of paper, a certificate conferring certain rights and restrictions on you. Fact is that you are a plain Indian (Indo Aryan or Dravidian) descended from a Hindu lineage unless of course there was a swashbuckling Caucasian down the line who did the trick. Are those who say that 'Goans' (pre '61 or otherwise} are different from "Indians' implying that Goans have a different ancestry? If you are prepared to say that WE Indians are filthy, dirty, corrupt, irreverent, immoral, ad nauseam, then let us rock and roll and get down to brass tacks and work out practical solutions to the problem of filth, squalor, ignorance, poverty and whatever ills plague society at large. While non resident Goans are free to express opinions, I do not take kindly to their sermonizing. Yes things are different here, mindsets are different from those in your adopted countries. As Roland said earlier, taking a positive attitude and doing something to bring about change will do the trick, So you live abroad, and you feel concerned about your mother land, then don't just blow hot air. Do something about it. Thank God for the Mother Theresas, The Fr. Lyons, The George Pintos of this world. -- Tony de Sa. tonydesa at gmail dot com ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
