[Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
The post appended below as well as another entitled "[Goanet] Nuns treated like servants by priests" reveals an obsession with one-sided political activism centered around other people's religion. This is evident from the misleading generalization in the quote below. It conveniently ignores the fact that the young Indian American community is well represented (and probably have a disproportionately higher representation) by Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Parsees and non-religious people. Also, the blanket claim that young Indian Americans suffer from cultural bigotry is patently bogus. It serves the dual political purpose of demeaning both the United States and the Hindu community for a Marxist propagandist like Vijay Prashad. Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 3/20/09, Marshall Mendonza wrote: > > "young Indian Americans suffer from cultural bigotry, and > that this experience sends them in search of an identity fix – > either to benign or not so benign organisations. The VHPA and its >"Yankee > Hindutva" parivar know this fully well. " > > http://epw.in/epw//uploads/articles/13284.pdf >
[Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
Santosh: The post appended below reveals an obsession with one-sided political activism centered around other people's religion. Response: Does Santosh believe and want us to believe that Hindutva (ideology) and Hinduism (religion) are synonymous? Does Santosh suggest the Hindutva represents hindus and hindu religion? Does Santosh expect us to keep off hindutva activities which affect our common well being and safety if we do not happen to be hindus? I look forward to his response. Mario: Why wasn't this posted by one of the vaunted defenders in India of everything Christian. Did Marshall not see this? Where is Fr. Ivo? Where is Jason Keith? Don't any of our Indian Goans read the Times of India? I'd like to know what they have to say for themselves. Response: I do not generally comment on any intra-religious issues - whether, hindu, muslim, christian or otherwise. These are best left to be tackled from within the communities as then there is greater acceptance. I comment / post on social issues which affect our common well being and safety. I consider hindutva (ideology) to be the greatest threat we as a nation are facing today. Gujarat happened because of hindutva. Orissa happened because of hindutva. Karnataka is happening because of hindutva. Goa is not too far off. Pramod Muthalik, of Sri Ram Sene who is seeking to spread his wings in Goa has been welcomed by the HJS /SS which has its base in Goa. Incidentally the HJS/ SS is on the radar of the security forces for its terrorist activities. I find we goans so insular in our thinking that very often we do not see the danger till it is right on our door step. Regards, Marshall
[Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
Santosh Helekar: I hope you agree that the following misleading quote is derisively targeted towards the Hindu community in America:"young Indian Americans suffer from cultural bigotry, and that this experience sends them in search of an identity fix – either to benign or not so benign organisations. The VHPA and its "Yankee Hindutva" parivar know this fully well. Response: A plain statement made by an author of the article becomes a misleading quote in another's mind. The article deals with Indians in USA and their relationship with the VHPA. It is but obvious, that reference would be made to the Hindu community as the VHP would be unlikely to attract Indians from other communities. Just shows in which direction the poster's mind works. The poster has not replied to my queries. I hope he does not do a Barad again. Regards, Marshall
[Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
Mario wrote: > Why wasn't this posted by one of the vaunted defenders in India of > everything Christian. Did Marshall not see this? Where is Fr. Ivo? > Where is Jason Keith? Don't any of our Indian Goans read the Times of > India? I'd like to know what they have to say for themselves. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:07:09 +0530 From: Marshall Mendonza I do not generally comment on any intra-religious issues - whether, hindu, muslim, christian or otherwise. These are best left to be tackled from within the communities as then there is greater acceptance. Mario asks: Wht???!!! Are you now telling us you are not a Christian? If intra-religious issues "are best left to be tackled within the communities..." then doesn't this mean that you - assuming you are a Christian - should have been the first one to post the Times of India report on the abominable abuse of Catholic nuns, and expressed your outrage and demanded that the perpetrators be brought to justice and expelled from the Catholic Church? Marshall wrote: I consider hindutva (ideology) to be the greatest threat we as a nation are facing today. Mario responds: I don't think anyone on Goanet, including the Hindus, has defended the excesses of Hindutva. What they object to are suggestions Hindutva applies to all Hindus or when they believe your facts or interpretations are faulty. Marshall wrote: I find we goans so insular in our thinking that very often we do not see the danger till it is right on our door step. Mario responds: Marshall, with all due respect you are describing yourself, not to mention your single-minded obsession with Hindutva and little else. Apparently, because one of the abused nuns did not show up at your door step, you felt quite comfortable to ignore her plight and the others like her. By the way, where is Fr. Ivo? May I appeal to him to take a break from re-defining the English language to address this issue which he should be much more concerned about?
[Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Marshall Mendonza wrote: > > "young Indian Americans suffer from cultural bigotry, and > that this experience sends them in search of an identity fix ? > either to benign or not so benign organisations. The VHPA and its >"Yankee > Hindutva" parivar know this fully well. " > > http://epw.in/epw//uploads/articles/13284.pdf Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 07:10:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Santosh Helekar Also, the blanket claim that young Indian Americans suffer from cultural bigotry is patently bogus. Mario adds: Santosh is quite correct. I have lived in the USA for 38 years, have made three asli-Americans, who have made four more and are probably working hard at making some more - at least I hope so:-)) While energetic critics will always be able to find examples in such a multi-cultural society that is also the most competitive society on earth of incidences that can be construed or spun as discrimination, in America discrimination has the opposite effect than in most other countries. In America, anyone who wastes their time in discriminating against others instead of bettering themselves in order to be competitive, falls further behind economically and socially. The reason is that those supposedly being discriminated against don't give a sh.., ..er, rip, because they can find plenty of influential Americans who are only concerned about "the content of their character" and their education and job skills. Other than the few native Americans, every American KNOWS they are or have descended from "foreigners", and those who may temporarily forget can be easily reminded. As a classic example of natural selection, immigrants who want to rely on their own abilities and build their own economic safety nets and are willing and able to compete head-to-head with the anyone, are the ones most attracted to America and most likely to become Americans. Fifty years ago Irish Americans were actually discriminated against with openly diaplayed signs that read "No Irish need apply", and the Irish are whiter in complexion than most other Europeans. Such a sign today whould get the sign maker locked up. Such signs didn't stop the Irish and it has never stopped any other immigrant either. If there is anything young and old Indian-Americans "suffer from" it is envy and amazement and admiration at their achievements.
[Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
Santosh Helekar: Please note above the brazen admission that reference was indeed being made to the Hindu community rather than the extremists. Response: One must grant Santosh the credit for maliciously and mischievously twisting and interpreting a sentence taken out of context and giving it a communal colour. Nothing new, standard hindutva tactics, if one may say so. In response to the following statement of Santosh- "The post appended below reveals an obsession with one-sided political activism centered around other people's religion." I had posed the following queries: Does Santosh believe and want us to believe that Hindutva (ideology) and Hinduism (religion) are synonymous? Does Santosh suggest the Hindutva represents hindus and hindu religion? Does Santosh expect us to keep off hindutva activities which affect our common well being and safety if we do not happen to be hindus? Till date Santosh has studiously avoided answering them. I will not be surprised if Santosh does a Barad. I can well understand his predicament. Regards, Marshall
[Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
Marlon Menezes: It is interesting to note that during the Marshall-Santosh dialogue, Nasci launched a despicable vituperative on hinduism, Marshall chose not to repudiate himself from Nasci's outrageous comments. This was a clear signal to me, that Marshall is either communal by nature, or so desperate for support, that he would sell his soul to the devil. Either way, I believe Marshall, like Nasci to be on very shaky ethical grounds. Response: Nice try Marlon. Better luck next time:-) Regards, Marshall
[Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
Santosh Helekar: Why are there misguided people and organizations in this world?Why do we have left-wing and right-wing fringe political activists and organizations in India and the U.S.?Why do criminals infest all political parties and organizations?Cheers,Santosh Response: It comes as a pleasant surprise that Santosh accepts and agrees that Vijay Prashad did make some substantive points in his article about the VHPA and the kind of people that it attracts in the USA. For once Santosh and Vijay Prashad are on the same wavelength. Regards, Marshall
Re: [Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
Hi Santosh, I'd really be curious to know and if you could back this up with some published statistics, whether the Indian-American community/social organisations in the US are indeed well represented by Christians, Muslims, Parsees and Sikhs. Best, Selma --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Santosh Helekar wrote: > From: Santosh Helekar > Subject: [Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion > To: " estb. 1994!Goa's premiere mailing list" > Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 9:10 AM > > The post appended below as well as another entitled > "[Goanet] Nuns treated like servants by priests" reveals an > obsession with one-sided political activism centered around > other people's religion. This is evident from the misleading > generalization in the quote below. It conveniently ignores > the fact that the young Indian American community is well > represented (and probably have a disproportionately higher > representation) by Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Parsees > and non-religious people. Also, the blanket claim that young > Indian Americans suffer from cultural bigotry is patently > bogus. It serves the dual political purpose of demeaning > both the United States and the Hindu community for a Marxist > propagandist like Vijay Prashad. > > Cheers, > > Santosh > > --- On Fri, 3/20/09, Marshall Mendonza > wrote: > > > > "young Indian Americans suffer from cultural bigotry, > and > > that this experience sends them in search of an > identity fix – > > either to benign or not so benign organisations. The > VHPA and its >"Yankee Hindutva" parivar know this fully > well. " > > > > http://epw.in/epw//uploads/articles/13284.pdf > > > > > >
Re: [Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
Hi Selma, I will get you the numbers if available. But here is what I know. The total Asian Indian population in America is 2.5 millions. From actual surveys it appears that about 1.5 million of these are Hindus. The remaining must belong to other religions, or be non-religious. I estimate for instance from the distribution in Houston neighborhoods that there is a significant over-representation of Kerala Christians compared to that in Indian cities. It is certainly likely that there are more Goan Christians than Hindus in America. Regardless, I hope you agree that the following misleading quote is derisively targeted towards the Hindu community in America: "young Indian Americans suffer from cultural bigotry, and that this experience sends them in search of an identity fix – either to benign or not so benign organisations. The VHPA and its "Yankee Hindutva" parivar know this fully well. " selected by Marshall Mendonza Cheers, Santosh Selma wrote: > >Hi Santosh, >I'd really be curious to know and if you could back this up with some >>published statistics, whether the Indian-American community/social >>organisations in the US are indeed well represented by Christians, >Muslims, >Parsees and Sikhs. > --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Marshall Mendonza wrote: > > Does Santosh believe and want us to believe that Hindutva > (ideology) and > Hinduism (religion) are synonymous? > Does Santosh suggest the Hindutva represents hindus > and hindu religion? > Does Santosh expect us to keep off hindutva activities > which affect our > common well being and safety if we do not happen to be > hindus? > I look forward to his response. >
Re: [Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
Santosh, I realised as soon I sent the email that I had read yours incorrectly to mean a representation of non-Hindus in American-Indian social/community organisations. From what I have read, these are Hindu-centric in the US. The same holds true here in the UK only here they also tend to be region-specific, such as Punjabi, etc. take care, Selma --- On Sun, 3/22/09, Santosh Helekar wrote: > From: Santosh Helekar > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion > To: " estb. 1994!Goa's premiere mailing list" > Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 10:24 AM > > Hi Selma, > > I will get you the numbers if available. But here is what I > know. The total Asian Indian population in America is 2.5 > millions. From actual surveys it appears that about 1.5 > million of these are Hindus. The remaining must belong to > other religions, or be non-religious. I estimate for > instance from the distribution in Houston neighborhoods that > there is a significant over-representation of Kerala > Christians compared to that in Indian cities. It is > certainly likely that there are more Goan Christians than > Hindus in America. > > Regardless, I hope you agree that the following misleading > quote is derisively targeted towards the Hindu community in > America: > > "young Indian Americans suffer from cultural bigotry, and > that this experience sends them in search of an identity fix > – either to benign or not so benign organisations. The > VHPA and its "Yankee Hindutva" parivar know this fully well. > " > > selected by Marshall Mendonza > > Cheers, > > Santosh > > > Selma wrote: > > > >Hi Santosh, > >I'd really be curious to know and if you could back > this up with some >published statistics, whether the > Indian-American community/social >organisations in the US > are indeed well represented by Christians, >Muslims, > Parsees and Sikhs. > > > > --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Marshall Mendonza > wrote: > > > > Does Santosh believe and want us to believe that > Hindutva > > (ideology) and > > Hinduism (religion) are synonymous? > > Does Santosh suggest the Hindutva represents hindus > > and hindu religion? > > Does Santosh expect us to keep off hindutva > activities > > which affect our > > common well being and safety if we do not happen to > be > > hindus? > > I look forward to his response. > > > > > >
Re: [Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
--- On Sun, 3/22/09, Mario Goveia wrote: > > I don't think anyone on Goanet, including the Hindus, has > defended the excesses of Hindutva. What they object to > are suggestions Hindutva applies to all Hindus or when they > believe your facts or interpretations are faulty. > >. > > Marshall, with all due respect you are describing yourself, > not to mention your single-minded obsession with Hindutva > and little else. > I would like to thank Mario for clearly expressing what should have been obvious to most reasonably unbiased, impartial and neutral observers on Goanet. I give below recent examples of how the equation of an entire community with an extremist ideology (as well as demonization of detractors) is being carried out in this forum: EXAMPLE 1 "It is but obvious, that reference would be made to the Hindu community as the VHP would be unlikely to attract Indians from other communities." .Marshall Mendonza Please note above the brazen admission that reference was indeed being made to the Hindu community rather than the extremists. EXAMPLE 2 "Does Santosh believe and want us to believe that Hindutva (ideology) and Hinduism (religion) are synonymous? Does Santosh suggest the Hindutva represents hindus and hindu religion? Does Santosh expect us to keep off hindutva activities which affect our common well being and safety if we do not happen to be hindus?" Please note the political tactic of asking rhetorical questions to manufacture a guilt by association, spelled out in the following abusive reference to detractors. EXAMPLE 3 "I hope he does not do a Barad again." .Marshall Mendonza Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
Marshall Mendonza had offered me a fake conditional apology a few days ago because of the abusive behavior he was engaged in. True to form he has now had a relapse of that condition. The reason for this latest bout of abuse against me is because I exposed the fact that he gratuitously initiated a thread to malign the young Indian American community, as a whole, by propagating the falsehoods disseminated by a Marxist activist named Vijay Prashad on a fringe political website. Here is the bogus defamatory quote that he tried to sell you: "young Indian Americans suffer from cultural bigotry, and that this experience sends them in search of an identity fix – either to benign or not so benign organisations. The VHPA and its "Yankee Hindutva" parivar know this fully well." ..Selected by Marshall Mendonza Here is his explanation that by "young Indian Americans" he was referring to the youth of the Hindu community: "It is but obvious, that reference would be made to the Hindu community as the VHP would be unlikely to attract Indians from other communities." .Marshall Mendonza I would like to caution Goanetters that Marshall Mendonza is trying to sell you lies about young Indian Americans. These young folk do not suffer from cultural bigotry. They do not in general join any benign or not so benign organization in search of an identity fix, whatever the heck that means. I say this from my personal experience of having taught and interacted with scores of young Indian Americans. Two of them are my own children. Mario Goveia, who has been in the U.S. much longer than I have, has separately attested to what I am saying here. Please do not trust Marshall Mendonza, and the garbage he posts in this forum. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 3/23/09, Marshall Mendonza wrote: > > Response: > One must grant Santosh the credit for maliciously and > mischievously twisting > and interpreting a sentence taken out of context and giving > it a communal > colour. Nothing new, standard hindutva tactics, if one may > say so. > > In response to the following statement of Santosh- > "The post appended below reveals an obsession with > one-sided political > activism centered around other people's religion." > > I had posed the following queries: > Does Santosh believe and want us to believe that Hindutva > (ideology) and > Hinduism (religion) are synonymous? > Does Santosh suggest the Hindutva represents hindus > and hindu religion? > Does Santosh expect us to keep off hindutva activities > which affect our > common well being and safety if we do not happen to be > hindus? > > Till date Santosh has studiously avoided answering them. I > will not be > surprised if Santosh does a Barad. I can well understand > his predicament. >
Re: [Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
--- On Tue, 3/24/09, Marshall Mendonza wrote: > >Ignoring all the vituperative, vitriolic and bucolic bile excreted by >Santosh which has by now become standard and normal fare for him, I would >like to go back to the topic of discussion. > I am relieved that no conditional apology was offered this time around. I can take this type of abuse, but conditional apologies are unbearably embarrassing. As far as the question asked below is concerned, it is as funny as it is naive. Why are there misguided people and organizations in this world? Why do we have left-wing and right-wing fringe political activists and organizations in India and the U.S.? Why do criminals infest all political parties and organizations? Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Marshall Mendonza wrote: > >Will Santosh explain why persons like Narendra Modi are eulogized by some >of >the expat population in USA and repeatedly invited by some of the >various >Indian associations to be the keynote speaker or chief guest, >despite his >gory track record? >
Re: [Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
It is interesting to note that during the Marshall-Santosh dialogue, Nasci launched a despicable vituperative on hinduism, Marshall chose not to repudiate himself from Nasci's outrageous comments. This was a clear signal to me, that Marshall is either communal by nature, or so desperate for support, that he would sell his soul to the devil. Either way, I believe Marshall, like Nasci to be on very shaky ethical grounds. Marlon --- On Mon, 3/23/09, Marshall Mendonza wrote: One must grant Santosh the credit for maliciously and mischievously twisting and interpreting a sentence taken out of context and giving it a communal colour. Nothing new, standard hindutva tactics, if one may say so.
Re: [Goanet] Obsession with other people's religion
--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Marshall Mendonza wrote: > >For once Santosh and Vijay Prashad are on the same wavelength. > Marshall is giving you bogus information as usual. Vijay Prashad's wavelength is on the extreme left fringe of the invisible spectrum. I trust only those who are in the neutral center of broad daylight. But more importantly, Prashad spreads lies about others for political reasons. I would not trust anything he says or writes, knowing that he tried to shill for communist criminals who murdered a girl, and that he falsely claimed that her innocent father and brother were her murderers, instead. Please see his slanderous hearsay accusation below: http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad05232007.html Here is the relevant quote: "Stories were blown out of context, and allegations flew around (sexual assaults, murders) that have since been shown to be false. The most sensational was the murder of a young woman, Tapasi Malik, who had been a leader in the Singur struggle against the land acquisition. The blogs and the capitalist media blamed this death on the CPM. The Central Bureau of Investigation is now of the view that she was killed by her father and brother." Sudhanva Deshpande and Vijay Prashad Now here are the real convicted murderers: "GUILTY: CPM’s Suhrid Dutta, ally Debu Malik for killing Tapasi Express News Service Posted: Nov 12, 2008 at 0306 hrs" http://www.expressindia.com/story_print.php?storyId=384632 "Life term for Suhrid, Debu in Tapasi case Express News Service Posted: Nov 13, 2008 at 0331 hrs IST" http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/life-term-for-suhrid-debu-in-tapasi-case/385174/ Given this evidence, which was provided earlier, I do not understand why anybody would copy and paste in this forum any garbage that Vijay Prashad writes. I would have been ashamed of myself if I did so. Cheers, Santosh
