Re: [Goanet] On religious discrimination, India next only to Iraq: US thinktank

[Santosh Helekar]

---
  http://www.GOANET.org 
---

Happy New Year Twenty-Ten

---

The latest post by "mmendonz...@gmail.com" in this thread contains statements 
that mislead Goanetters about the Pew Report and about my earlier response on 
this issue. Like the earlier post by this author, the claims made are cherry 
picked from a few examples, in the present case provided by the Pew forum 
merely to illustrate its methodology. Let me point out some of these gross 
distortions and false statements below:

--- On Sat, 1/2/10, Marshall Mendonza  wrote:
>
> Nowhere does the Pew Report suggest or even indicate that so far as >India is 
> concerned that India ranks high in the Social Hostility Index >due to deaths 
> caused by war, military action, left wing extremism or >terrorist violence as 
> the poster would like to mislead us into believing. >

This is grossly misleading because the Pew Report clearly points out in its 
Methodology section on page 43 that religion-related terrorism, war and armed 
conflict are major indicators used in calculating the Social Hostilities Index, 
in which India figured high. Here are the relevant excerpts from the report:

QUOTE
Religion-Related Terrorism and Armed Conflict
Terrorism and war can have huge direct and indirect effects on religious 
groups, destroying religious sites, displacing whole communities and inflaming 
sectarian passions. Accordingly, the Pew Forum tallied the number, location and 
consequences of religion-related terrorism and
armed conflict around the world, as reported in the same primary sources used 
to document other forms of intimidation and violence. .They are factored 
instead into the index of social hostilities involving religion, which includes 
one question specifically about religion-related terrorism and one question 
specifically about religion-related war or armed conflict. In addition, other 
measures in both indexes are likely to pick up spillover effects of war and 
terrorism on the level of religious
tensions in society. For example, hate crimes, mob violence and sectarian 
fighting that occur in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or in the context of 
a religion-related war would be counted in the Social Hostilities 
Index,
Religion-related war or armed conflict is defined as armed conflict (a conflict 
that involves sustained casualties over time or more than 1,000 battle deaths) 
in which religious rhetoric is commonly used to justify the use of force, or in 
which one or more of the combatants primarily identifies itself or the opposing 
side by religion.
UNQUOTE
.The Pew Report, page 43

Also, please note in the quote below the two year time period used for 
estimating fatalities:

QUOTE
Fourth, two independently coded years of data (July 1, 2006, through June 30, 
2007, and July 1, 2007, through June 30, 2008) were averaged to create solid 
baseline measures that are less affected by methodological or informational 
variability in any one year.
UNQUOTE
.The Pew Report, page 33

If you look at all the raw data during this period in India from the sources 
relied on by the U.S. State department, the most number of deaths from 
terrorism and armed conflict occurred in the Northeast and Kashmir. Left-wing 
armed extremist violence caused the next highest number of fatalities. The 
average estimates of violent deaths during the two years are as follows:

Northeast States  - 1789 (due to terrorism and armed conflict)
Jammu and Kashmir - 1623 (due to terrorism and armed conflict)
Rest of India -  551 (due to terrorism and armed conflict)
Left-wing Armed Extremism - 1353

>
>It is the posters own interpretation and conclusion to divert our >attention 
>from the core issue viz.  persecution of religious minorities. 
>

This statement and the insinuation contained in it are false. The report 
clearly documented persecution against both minorities and the majority in 
India. Please see the following quote on Page 46:

QUOTE
Which religious groups have allegedly been harassed by social groups? Jains, 
Muslims, Pandits, Hindus and Christians
UNQUOTE
.The Pew Report, page 46

Please note that I had not said or implied anything regarding the majority or 
the minorities in my earlier post, as insinuated in the above smear by 
"mmendonz...@gmail.com". Here is the link to my earlier post on Goanet:

http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg55750.html 

>
>Refer pages 45 to 48 which details some of the incidents. Incidentally, >out 
>of the 7 states covered, 5 are/were BJP ruled staes and 2 are >Congress ruled. 
>This itself tells its own story.
> 

This statement misuses for a political purpose, a few Indian examples provided 
by the P

[Goanet] On religious discrimination, India next only to Iraq: US thinktank

[Marshall Mendonza]

---
  http://www.GOANET.org 
---

Happy New Year Twenty-Ten

---

 Santosh Helekar:
 The title of the Times of India news story and in its text thoroughly
misleads readers in this regard. The excerpts in the post appended below
does worse.India figures high only when you count the 25 most populous
countries because of its very high social hostilities index and its
population.

 Response:
The Times of India report got the essence and gist of the Pew Report dead
on. The Pew Report is all about global restrictions on religions covering
198 countries. It studies government restrictions on religions (GRR) and
social hostility involving religion (SHR) and measures them on a scale of
1-10. India scores 5.1 in the GR Index and a high 8.8 on the SH Index. The
Telegraph too carries a similar report. Refer link
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1091231/jsp/nation/story_11927638.jsp

Santosh Helekar:
India figures very high only in the social hostilities index, which is
obvious because this index is skewed by hundreds of deaths due to war,
military action, and religious extremist, left-wing extremist and terrorist
violence in places like the Northeast and Kashmir, as indicated in the Pew
methodology.

Response:
Nowhere does the Pew Report suggest or even indicate that so far as India is
concerned that India ranks high in the Social Hostility Index due to deaths
caused by war, military action, left wing extremism or terrorist violence as
the poster would like to mislead us into believing. It is the posters own
interpretation and conclusion to divert our attention from the core issue
viz.  persecution of religious minorities. Refer pages 45 to 48 which
details some of the incidents. Incidentally, out of the 7 states covered, 5
are/were BJP ruled staes and 2 are Congress ruled. This itself tells its own
story.

Here are some excerpts from the report pertaining to India vis-a-vis other
countries:
http://pewforum.org/newassets/images/reports/restrictions/restrictionsfullreport.pdf

1. Among all regions, the Middle East-North Africa has the highest
government and social restrictions on religion, while the Americas are the
least restrictive region on both measures. Among the world’s 25 most
populous countries, Iran, Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistan and India stand out as
having the most restrictions when both measures are taken into account,
while Brazil, Japan, the United States, Italy, South Africa and the United
Kingdom have the least. (pgs 2 & 3)

2. Under the GRR, India scores among the top 20% with a score of 5.1 . Under
the SHR, India scores an extremely high of 8.8  to be counted among the top
5%. Other countries in this categoy in order of ranking are Iraq,
Pakistan,Afghanistan,Indonesia,Bangladesh,Somalia,Israel,Sri
Lanka,Sudan,Saudi Arabia. (pgs 22, 25 &28)

The Pew Forum’s Social Hostilities Index is a measure of concrete, hostile
actions that effectively hinder the religious activities of the targeted
individuals or groups.

3. As the chart on page 28 shows, nearly all of the 50 most populous
countries that are high on both measures of restrictions are in Asia or the
Middle East-North Africa region. Many of the restrictions in these countries
are driven by groups pressing for the enshrinement of their interpretation
of the majority faith, including through Shariah law in Muslim societies and
through the Hindutva movement in India, which seeks to define India as a
Hindu nation. (Additional examples of restrictions on religion in India can
be found on page 45 of the Methodology.)

4. The list of countries with very high levels of social hostilities differs
considerably from the list of those with the most restrictive governments.
Only one country, Saudi Arabia, appears on both lists.Several others that
are very high in social hostilities also score in the high range on
government restrictions; these include India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Iraq,
Afghanistan, Somalia and Israel.(page 19).



The report is a blessing in disguise for all of us Indians. We have the
choice of using it as a wake up call to rectify the situation or bury it and
pretend that all is well and hunky dory. It is upto each one of us to make
the choice.



Regards,



Marshall

Re: [Goanet] On religious discrimination, India next only to Iraq: US thinktank

[Santosh Helekar]

This news story is a travesty. The finding that is highlighted and 
sensationalized is cherry picked from within the bowels of the original Pew 
report. That finding is not even mentioned in the executive summary. The title 
is completely misleading. 

Here is the link to the executive summary of the original Pew Report. 

http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=491

Here is the pertinent excerpt:

QUOTE
Some restrictions result from government actions, policies and laws. Others 
result from hostile acts by private individuals, organizations and social 
groups. The highest overall levels of restrictions are found in countries such 
as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran, where both the government and society at 
large impose numerous limits on religious beliefs and practices. But government 
policies and social hostilities do not always move in tandem. Vietnam and 
China, for instance, have high government restrictions on religion but are in 
the moderate or low range when it comes to social hostilities. Nigeria and 
Bangladesh follow the opposite pattern: high in social hostilities but moderate 
in terms of government actions.
UNQUOTE

Please note that "the highest overall levels of restrictions are found in 
countries such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran", not India. Please note that 
this quote, although provided by Times of India, was not cherry picked for 
display on Goanet. The quote picked was one that showed India in the worst 
possible light.

India figures very high only in the social hostilities index, which is obvious 
because this index is skewed by hundreds of deaths due to war, military action, 
and religious extremist, left-wing extremist and terrorist violence in places 
like the Northeast and Kashmir, as indicated in the Pew methodology. The data 
were taken from only two time periods - July 1, 2006, through June 30, 2007, 
and July 1, 2007, through June 30, 2008.

There are 19 countries above India as far as state-sponsored religious 
restrictions are concerned, the most important measure of religious 
discrimination in any country. The only country that figures in the very high 
category in both government restrictions and social hostility index is Saudi 
Arabia. The title of the Times of India news story and in its text thoroughly 
misleads readers in this regard. The excerpts in the post appended below does 
worse.

India figures high only when you count the 25 most populous countries because 
of its very high social hostilities index and its population.

Cheers,

Santosh


--- On Tue, 12/22/09, Marshall Mendonza  wrote:
>
> Excerpts:
>
> For 
> India,
> international recognition of its free and pluralistic
> society has always
> been hard to come by and while things are changing,
>
> they are clearly changing slowly. A study carried out by
> Washington-based
> Pew Research Centre, the highly respected US thinktank,
> said India is next
> only to Iraq when it comes to social hostility and
> religious discrimination
> perpetrated by individuals and groups.
>
> The study titled `Global Restrictions on Religion' took
> into account the
> situation in as many as 198 countries, North Korea being
> the only notable
> exception, to derive the conclusion. India was just below
> Iraq and well
> above countries like Saudi
> Arabiaand
> Afghanistan when it came to social hostility in the
> country. Pakistan
> is
> at the third place right below India.
>
>
>
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/On-religious-discrimination-India-next-only-to-Iraq-US-thinktank/articleshow/5363193.cms
>


  

[Goanet] On religious discrimination, India next only to Iraq: US thinktank

[Marshall Mendonza]

Excerpts:

For 
India,
international recognition of its free and pluralistic society has always
been hard to come by and while things are changing,

they are clearly changing slowly. A study carried out by Washington-based
Pew Research Centre, the highly respected US thinktank, said India is next
only to Iraq when it comes to social hostility and religious discrimination
perpetrated by individuals and groups.

The study titled `Global Restrictions on Religion' took into account the
situation in as many as 198 countries, North Korea being the only notable
exception, to derive the conclusion. India was just below Iraq and well
above countries like Saudi
Arabiaand
Afghanistan when it came to social hostility in the country. Pakistan
is
at the third place right below India.



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/On-religious-discrimination-India-next-only-to-Iraq-US-thinktank/articleshow/5363193.cms