Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S AAiyar(Times of India)
August 25, 2009 - Goanet's 15th Anniversary
From: "Mario Goveia"
<<
Anyone who finds outsourcing beneficial in their business but is not doing
so because of the Pope is harming his or her business, by definition.
***You have not yet understood what the Holy Father is teaching.
Fr. Ivo wrote:
> The Holy Father is right, whereas Mario is wrong. Benedict XVI did not
"end" outsourcing ("if outsourcing were to end"), but "guided" it. Read
the text before you criticise.
If anyone followed his "guidance" at their cost, he did not do them any
favors, and harmed those who would have received the outsourced jobs as
well..
***Then you are free to continue to do what you are doing...
>>>The shareholders own the company and no other "stakeholders" would
benefit if it were not for them. So what if they have geographical
mobility? The fact is that they have invested in a particular business
which has to maximize its resources so that all the "stakeholders" can
benefit in the long run.
***This is precisely what Benedict XVI is saying...
In short, as I said earlier, "Benedict XVI is not against outsourcing, but
is appealing to responsibility towards all the stakeholders over mere
profitability of shareholders"...
Mario responds:
There would be no successful "stakeholders" without successful
"shareholders" making "mere" profits.
***If all profit, then it is correct according to Benedict XVI.
<<< Memo to Goanetters: Please note that Fr. Ivo and Pope's JP II and Benny
have never had to make anything so crass as "mere" profits.
***If the Church (priests, convents or monasteries) makes profit, you will
say that they are concerned with money affairs...
As a businessman myself, the Vatican can PLEASE keep it's "guidance" to
itself and use it in any businesses it owns. Listening to their
non-expert advice would hamper my business.
***You can follow your ways, please... Donations will come from evwerywhere.
You can offer him shoes bought in Dharavi and insure seats in heaven...
Regards.
Fr.Ivo
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S AAiyar(Times of India)
August 25, 2009 - Goanet's 15th Anniversary
From: "Mario Goveia"
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:34:57 -0700
From: "isouza"
When Benedict XVI is writing on integral human development, he certainly
knows more than you and I.
Mario responds:
Speak for yourself, Fr. Ivo:-))
***There is no need to be a professional economist or politician to know
what it is dishonest behaviour in economic or political fields. The Holy
Father will never speak on economics or politics without consulting experts
in economics and politics...
Real human development has progressed the most for the most people most of
the time when people followed their own free market instincts, not by what
any Pope or other elitist like Karl Marx thought who has never had to
decide what products to make or sell, never hired people in a business,
never had to pay them every month from the cash flow of the business,
never had to worry about making a profit for the business, and knows beans
about economics or the pros and cons of outsourcing.
*** "Free market instincst"... Karl Marx ...elitist... sell our products,
learnthe tricks of the trade, pay justly and honestly your workers, make
porfit in your business. The businessmen will learn all this in their day to
day life. Not all of them are graduated in economics or politics. You can
see how well the Goan politicians are doing without even S.S.C... They would
have been successful and really responsible to the Goan people if they had
followed the principles laid by the Church in her Social Encyclicals...
This would be as bogus as a Pope preaching about day-to-day marital
relations as part of "human development".
***That is what John Paul II did throughout his life, and the married
couples are grateful to him. The Youth still remember him.
Fr. Ivo wrote:
Rather than teaching technical economics Benedict XVI is teaching how love
can solve the problems of the nations. "Love-caritas- is an extraordinary
force which leads people to opt for courageous and generous engagement in
the field of justice and peace".
Mario observes:
Unfortunately, while love may make the world go round, Pope Benny's love
doesn't seem to include those who would lose their livelyhoods if
outsourcing were to end because of Pope Benny trying to put some bogus
moral guilt trip on business owners.
*** The Holy Father is right, whereas Mario is wrong. Benedict XVI did not
"end" outsourcing ("if outsourcing were to end"), but "guided" it. Read the
text before you criticise.
"...Moreover, the so-called
outsourcing of production can weaken the company's sense of responsibility
towards the stakeholders - namely the workers, the suppliers, the
consumers,
the natural environment and broader society - in favour of the
shareholders,
who are not tied to a specific geographical area and who therefore enjoy
extraordinary mobility".
"Today's international capital market offers great
freedom of action. Yet there is also increasing awareness of the need for
greater social responsibility on the part of business. Even if the ethical
considerations that currently inform debate on the social responsibility
of
the corporate world are not all acceptable from the perspective of the
Church's social doctrine, there is nevertheless a growing conviction that
business management cannot concern itself only with the interests of the
proprietors, but must also assume responsibility for all the other
stakeholders who contribute to the life of the business: the workers, the
clients, the suppliers of various elements of production, the community of
reference..."
" Paul VI invited people to give serious attention to
the damage that can be caused to one's home country by the transfer abroad
of capital purely for personal advantage[95]. John Paul II taught that
investment always has moral, as well as economic significance[96]. All
this - it should be stressed - is still valid today, despite the fact that
the capital market has been significantly liberalized, and modern
technological thinking can suggest that investment is merely a technical
act, not a human and ethical one.
"There is no reason to deny that a certain
amount of capital can do good, if invested abroad rather than at home. Yet
the requirements of justice must be safeguarded, with due consideration
for
the way in which the capital was generated and the harm to individuals
that
will result if it is not used where it was produced[97]." (CV no.40).
In short, as I said earlier, "Benedict XVI is not against outsourcing, but
is appealing to
responsibility towards all the stakeholders over mere profitability of
shareholders"...
Real economic justice and peace comes from stable economies where people
have stable employment and are free to buy and sell products and services
and run their businesses wi
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S AAiyar(Times of India)
August 25, 2009 - Goanet's 15th Anniversary From: "Mario Goveia" <<***When Benedict XVI is writing on integral human development, he certainly knows more than you and I. "Caritas in Veritate" is the recent addition to the Church's Social Teaching. It is making ripples, it was released at a time when the whole world is reeling under the baneful economic crisis. The Holy Father presents it as a new and efficacious paradigm of development that will ensure the integral uplift of humankind and will effectively salvage humanity from the current economic crisis. In this encyclical, Benedict XVI revisits the teachings of Paul VI on integral human development--he reaffirms the relevance of Populorum Progressio, calling it "the Rerum Novarum of the present age". He emphasizes and reiterates the 'inclusive' development that Paul VI envisoned, namely man's complete development and the development of all humankind. Love in truth is the "principal driving force behind the authentic development of every person and of all humanity". In his encyclical letter, the Holy Father "focuses on the principles essential for authentic human development" and underscores the social themes vital to the well-being of humanity. Such key-principles of Catholic Social Teaching as solidarity, the common good, universal destination of goods, participation, subsidiarity, human dignity and the unity of the human family have also been sufficiently emphasized. In short, the Holy Father has aptly demonstrated to the world that the Church is indeed an "expert in humanity". Rather than teaching technical economics Benedict XVI is teaching how love can solve the problems of the nations. "Love-caritas- is an extraordinary force which leads people to opt for courageous and generous engagement in the field of justice and peace". Regards. Fr.Ivo
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S AAiyar(Times of India)
August 20 - WORLD GOA DAY Celebrating the inclusion of Konkani in the 8th schedule of the Indian Constitution on August 20, 1992 For a list of World Goa Day events see: http://worldgoaday2009.blogspot.com 2009/8/19 Gabe Menezes > > > > > How do they train themselves to be so impervious to reality? > > > http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-republicans-religion-and-t Seems like a screwed up link, so try this one out:- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-republican-party-is-t_b_262594.html If not successful please copy paste...How to they train themselves. and Google it. Now we can appreciate the effect of the Moon (Luna) on the minds of people suffering Bipolar, check out this one, which seems more appropriate:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypomania It was at the Mezza Luna L.A. that they had a Pizza and saltimbocca, Sicilian style...had Campari soda as an aperitif, quaffed Chianti and finished off with Marsala wine - not least but last some strange drink called Sambuca with a few Coffee beans and had at light to it! Then O.J. went on the rampage (allegedly) and had the couple well and truly done in. All the while they tell you that they are sane :-(( ; like a caged dog, gone potty. Family should realise that weekends alone are not a solution. Seems to me a case gone too far for any sort of correction. Amen. Gabe
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S AAiyar(Times of India)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Apartment for sale in Campal/Miramar area, Panaji, Goa. Spacious 3 bedroom flat (3BHK)available for sale in upscale area near Miramar beach Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com 2009/8/18 Bosco D'Mello > > > > RESPONSE: > #1) What has Zimbabwe, N. Korea, etc have to do with the Pope in this > instance? Or > even Aiyar-ji for that matter. > > > - B > How do they train themselves to be so impervious to reality? http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-republicans-religion-and-t -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London.
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S AAiyar(Times of India)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Apartment for sale in Campal/Miramar area, Panaji, Goa. Spacious 3 bedroom flat (3BHK)available for sale in upscale area near Miramar beach Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Mario Goveia > The economically weakest nations, like Zimbabwe and many other > African nations, many Latin American nations, and Cuba and N. Korea, > are economic basket cases because of their own corruption, > oppression and incompetent internal policies which assume that a small > number of powerful elites know what's good for everyone else, better > than they do. RESPONSE: #1) What has Zimbabwe, N. Korea, etc have to do with the Pope in this instance? Or even Aiyar-ji for that matter. #2) I suppose the 'powerful elites' referred to above also include the avaricious pinheads on Wall Street who have sucked trillions of dollars of the tax-payers dollars. #3) Weeks later, Aiyar-ji continues to confound Mario-G. Kamaal hai!! - B
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S AAiyar(Times of India)
From: "Mario Goveia" "Stick to religion and helping the poor, and stay the hell away from economics." From: George Pinto I am surprised Aiyar writes an article without quoting the actual piece he takes exception to. Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:27:22 -0400 From: "Bosco D'Mello" Oops!! Looks like Aiyar-ji did a number on Mario-G!! Best advice is gratuituous advice from Mario-G!! Fulfilled his daily quota, all without reading any facts!! Mario responds: Ooops! Looks like Bosco has stepped in cow-cakes again:-)) He apparently knows about as much about the Vatican's attitude towards economics as he does about medical waiting lists in Canada:-)) I wonder what part of my comments above did Bosco fail to understand? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/world/europe/08pope.html Pope Benedict XVI on Tuesday called for a radical rethinking of the global economy, criticizing a growing divide between rich and poor and urging the establishment of a “true world political authority” to oversee the economy and work for the “common good.” He criticized the current economic system, “where the pernicious effects of sin are evident,” and urged financiers in particular to “rediscover the genuinely ethical foundation of their activity.” ***The Church has the competence to criticise any social or economic or political systems. The Church does not give economic or political solutions, but can guide them. The common good is the key criterion for all economic activity. An international authority is needed to protect the weak nations. And, http://www.indiancatholic.in/news/storydetails.php/12752-1-6-Pope%E2%80%99s-Encyclical-creates-fear-in-outsourcing-industry-in-India > According to Raman Roy, a pioneer in outsourcing industry in India the > recent encyclical by the Pope seems to be questioning the adverse effect > of Outsourcing in the world market and the economies of the western > countries. The Pope writes in the Encyclical, “The so-called outsourcing of production can weaken the company’s sense of responsibility towards the stakeholders — namely the workers, the suppliers, the consumers, the natural environment and broader society — in favour of the shareholders, who are not tied to a specific geographical area and who, therefore, enjoy extraordinary mobility.” ***Benedict XVI is not against outsourcing, but is appealing to responsibility towards all the stakeholders over mere profitability of shareholders... And: http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=14970 The Caritas in Veritate encyclical, overdue by a couple of months reportedly due to difficulties encountered in translating to Latin, underscores the "need for a system with three subjects: the market, the State and civil society," to "civilising of the economy", the Vatican Information Service said, quoting from the text. The encyclical is Benedict's third. Filled with terms like "globalisation," "market economy," "outsourcing," "labour unions" and "alternative energy,", the New York Times reported, "it is not surprising that the Italian media reported that the Vatican was having difficulty translating the 144 page document into Latin." ***Benedict XVI could not write on economic issues without using the terms "globalisation", market economy", "outsourcing", "labour union" or "alternative energy" so as to continue the Social Teaching of the Church started by Leo XIII on May, 15, 1891, and continued by all the successive Popes till Paul VI with his enc.Populorum Progressio on March 26, 1967, which has been deepened and applied to the modern changed situation in his enc.Caritas in Veritate. Regards. Fr.Ivo See CV, no.40: "Today's international economic scene, marked by grave deviations and failures, requires a profoundly new way of understanding business enterprise. Old models are disappearing, but promising new ones are taking shape on the horizon. Without doubt, one of the greatest risks for businesses is that they are almost exclusively answerable to their investors, thereby limiting their social value. Owing to their growth in scale and the need for more and more capital, it is becoming increasingly rare for business enterprises to be in the hands of a stable director who feels responsible in the long term, not just the short term, for the life and the results of his company, and it is becoming increasingly rare for businesses to depend on a single territory. Moreover, the so-called outsourcing of production can weaken the company's sense of responsibility towards the stakeholders — namely the workers, the suppliers, the consumers, the natural environment and broader society — in favour of the shareholders, who are not tied to a specific geographical area and who therefore enjoy extraordinary mobility. Today's international capital market offers great freedom of action. Yet there is also increasing awareness of the need for greater social responsibility on the part of business. Even if the eth
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S AAiyar(Times of India)
- Goanetter Francis Rodrigues (Vasco/Toronto) unveils his book, The Greatest Konkani Song Hits. Launch dates: Goa (Kala Academy) on 9 Aug. 4 pm. U.K. (Staines) on 15 Aug. Canada on 20 Aug and US on 30 Aug. Details http://www.konkanisongbook.com/ - -Original Message- From: Mario Goveia > Ooops! Looks like Bosco has stepped in cow-cakes again:-)) RESPONSE: Wht?? Mario located more people like him, more people that Aiyar-ji did a number on!! Shabash!!! And Mario is yet to read the referenced 48-page encyclical from the Pope. Shabash again!!! > I wonder what part of my comments above did Bosco fail to understand? RESPONSE: The same part that Mario fails to understand; stuff that he writes. Same part. > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/world/europe/08pope.html > http://www.indiancatholic.in/news/storydetails.php/12752-1-6-Pope%E2%80%99s-Encyclical-creates-fear-in-outsourcing-industry-in-India > http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=14970 RESPONSE: And why all these links?? Mario has already been crowned the "top cut-and-paste artist here while at the same time having close to zero knowledge about what he writes about. Numero Uno!!!". Mind you with all these links he is forwarding from the anti-Bush liberal media, perhaps he is like the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing [1] - lambasting Obama while being a local campaign manager propping up the Dems. I hope Carmen does not take Mario's pomposity seriously. He is after all the voice of the "top cut-and-paste artist". He is best at taking jabs at fellow Goanetters. Does it on a daily basis. He ensures we see his name four times each day except on weekends. Whaaat?? Ohh!! You are welcome, Mario!! I know you like cup-cakes! - B [1] - Wolf In Sheep's Clothing by This Providence
