Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
August 25, 2009 - Goanet's 15th Anniversary From: Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net In my opinion, the Pope was assuming he knew better what was good for everyone else when he made his comments in the encyclical. In economics, he doesn't. Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:34:57 -0700 From: isouza icso...@sancharnet.in When Benedict XVI is writing on integral human development, he certainly knows more than you and I. Mario responds: Speak for yourself, Fr. Ivo:-)) Real human development has progressed the most for the most people most of the time when people followed their own free market instincts, not by what any Pope or other elitist like Karl Marx thought who has never had to decide what products to make or sell, never hired people in a business, never had to pay them every month from the cash flow of the business, never had to worry about making a profit for the business, and knows beans about economics or the pros and cons of outsourcing. This would be as bogus as a Pope preaching about day-to-day marital relations as part of human development. Fr. Ivo wrote: Rather than teaching technical economics Benedict XVI is teaching how love can solve the problems of the nations. Love-caritas- is an extraordinary force which leads people to opt for courageous and generous engagement in the field of justice and peace. Mario observes: Unfortunately, while love may make the world go round, Pope Benny's love doesn't seem to include those who would lose their livelyhoods if outsourcing were to end because of Pope Benny trying to put some bogus moral guilt trip on business owners. Real economic justice and peace comes from stable economies where people have stable employment and are free to buy and sell products and services and run their businesses without coercion by the heavy hand of government or the Vatican. If the Vatican wants REAL economic justice and peace it should lecture governments to get out of the way of their business enterprises, and focus on helping them with reasonable tax policies and the best infrastructure and security systems possible so that they are free to conduct their businesses more easily and without fear. In such an environment private charities spring up to help those members of the society who are unable to help themselves.
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
August 20 - WORLD GOA DAY Celebrating the inclusion of Konkani in the 8th schedule of the Indian Constitution on August 20, 1992 For a list of World Goa Day events see: http://worldgoaday2009.blogspot.com 2009/8/19 Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net: False. The real kamaal is Bosco's single-minded obsession with this person, Aiyar-ji, while the discussion has passed him by:-)) What are you'll Bambai-ised, Hindi-ised Goenkars talking about? I have no problem with diversity, but I just can't follow your kamaal, camel, kamal dialogue here! Please could someone offer an English-to-English translation :-) FN -- FN +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490 Konkani adages http://konkani-adages.notlong.com/ Medieval Goa http://medieval-goa.notlong.com/
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
August 20 - WORLD GOA DAY Celebrating the inclusion of Konkani in the 8th schedule of the Indian Constitution on August 20, 1992 For a list of World Goa Day events see: http://worldgoaday2009.blogspot.com Bosco wrote: #1) What has Zimbabwe, N. Korea, etc have to do with the Pope in this instance? Or even Aiyar-ji for that matter. Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:18:36 +0100 From: Gabe Menezes gabe.mene...@gmail.com How do they train themselves to be so impervious to reality? http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-republicans-religion-and-t Mario observes: Hey, Gabe, It would help if you posted a complete URL, but I was able to find the article anyway and found it filled with untruths and half truths. The column you have posted has nothing to do with either the topic of this thread or Bosco's comment that you have referenced, which, unbeknownst to you, I have answered in another post. The article is just another in a long list of scurrilous articles that the left wing Independent is famous for. Here are just a few of the more egregious examples: Excerpt: Since Obama's rise, the US right has been skipping frantically from one fantasy to another, like a person in the throes of a mental breakdown. It started when they claimed he was a secret Muslim, and – at the same time – that he was a member of a black nationalist church that hated white people. Mario responds: According to its title, this column is supposed to be about Republicans. Here we see the the author jumping to using the general term the US right, who may or may not be Republicans. I know many Republicans and I would like Johann Hari or Gabe to show us some evidence of a comment by any Republican official that Obama was any kind of Muslim, secret or not. The facts are that Obama said in his memoires that his father was an atheist, then, before he went to Saudi Arabia to genuflect before Kind Abdullah, he suddenly said he had Muslim roots and many memories of experiencing Muslim culture as a youth in Indonesia, which he had also previously swept under the rug. The second part is true, regardless of whether any Republican said it or not. Obama was a member for 20 years of one of the most viciously radical anti-American and anti-Jewish churches in Chicago, which he also tried to deny until outed by the Pastor who said Obama would say anything to get elected. Excerpt: Then, once these arguments were rejected and Obama won, they began to argue that he was born in Kenya and secretly smuggled into the United States as a baby, and the Hawaiian authorities conspired to fake his US birth certificate. So he is ineligible to rule and the office of President should pass to... the Republican runner-up, John McCain. Mario responds: Johann Hari either does not know or deliberately left out the fact that the person who first questioned Obama's status as a natural born American was a Democrat who was once an Assistant Attorney General in Pennsylvania and a Hillary Clinton supporter and has a web site: www.obamacrimes.com This started well before the election so Mr. Hari is wrong again when he says it started after Obama won. However, some Republicans have questioned why Obama, if he has nothing to hide, has not released his original birth certificate but a proxy document which is not the same thing. Johann Hari also displays his ignorance because a) Obama being born in Kenya to an obviously American mother would not have invalidated his natural born American status unless his mother had renounced her citizenship, and there is no evidence that she did. For example, John McCain was born in Panama. b) If Obama was disqualified for any reason the Presidency would not pass to John McCain but to the comical Vice President Joe Biden. Excerpt: These aren't fringe phenomena: a Research 200 poll found that a majority of Republicans and Southerners say Obama wasn't born in the US, or aren't sure. Mario responds: This is just flat out false. The author uses another scurrilous journalistic trick by lumping Republicans and Southerners thus no one can tell what exactly he is referring to because one is a political party and the other is a geographical region. The Research 200 poll, a fringe poll which is not used by mainstream organizations, actually showed that a majority of Republicans polled believed Obama was born in the US, so this is another flat out falsehood by the author. Excerpt: This trend has reached its apotheosis this summer with the Republican Party now claiming en masse that Obama wants to set up death panels to euthanise the old and disabled. Yes: Sarah Palin really has claimed – with a straight face – that Barack Obama wants to
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Apartment for sale in Campal/Miramar area, Panaji, Goa. Spacious 3 bedroom flat (3BHK)available for sale in upscale area near Miramar beach Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com From: Mario Goveia The economically weakest nations, like Zimbabwe and many other African nations, many Latin American nations, and Cuba and N. Korea, are economic basket cases because of their own corruption, oppression and incompetent internal policies which assume that a small number of powerful elites know what's good for everyone else, better than they do. Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:59:05 -0400 From: Bosco D'Mello bos...@canada.com #1) What has Zimbabwe, N. Korea, etc have to do with the Pope in this instance? Or even Aiyar-ji for that matter. Mario responds: The clue lies in the last 20 or so words of the excerpt shown above of what I wrote. In my opinion, the Pope was assuming he knew better what was good for everyone else when he made his comments in the encyclical. In economics, he doesn't. On reconsideration, and after much prayer, fasting and abstinence, I see that I should have made the connection more clear. So, you are correct in raising the question because to figure it out on your own would take adding two and two to make the connection:-)). Aiyar-ji, on the other hand, is your obsession. In my original response, which sent you careening into space, where you may still be, I did not even mention him. To see this and avoid doing a Marlon in future, please re-read: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-August/181161.html Bosco wrote: #2) I suppose the 'powerful elites' referred to above also include the avaricious pinheads on Wall Street who have sucked trillions of dollars of the tax-payers dollars. Mario responds: No, these avaricious capitalists don't fit into this discussion, because I don't believe they presume to know what's good for everyone else better than they do. On the other hand, the decision to bail them out was pushed by people like Henry Paulson who thought they knew what was good for everyone else, and was an unfortunate decision should have not been made by Bush. It was one of his biggest mistakes. Under free market principles, not to bail them out would have been better for everyone else in the longer run. Other banks and investment banks that were better run would have quickly acquired the ones that could not make it. The owners and managers of the failed banks would have paid a heavy price for their serious mistakes, which is how the free market cleanses itself. Bosco wrote: #3) Weeks later, Aiyar-ji continues to confound Mario-G. Kamaal hai!! Mario observes: False. The real kamaal is Bosco's single-minded obsession with this person, Aiyar-ji, while the discussion has passed him by:-)) Aiyar-ji has never featured in any of my opinions on this subject. The only mention I have made of this person is to point this out when Bosco keeps bringing him up.
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
- BOOK RELEASE: Medieval Goa by Teotonio R. de Souza Will be re-released after 30 years on August 21, 2009 at 5:15pm at Goa Chambers of Commerce and Industry Hall, near Azad Maidan in Panjim, Goa http://medieval-goa.notlong.com - Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:32:23 -0700 From: isouza icso...@sancharnet.in The Church has the competence to criticise any social or economic or political systems. The Church does not give economic or political solutions, but can guide them. The common good is the key criterion for all economic activity. An international authority is needed to protect the weak nations. Mario responds: The Church has no competence or credibility in economic situations as the recent encyclical clearly proves and thus no experience or ability to guide these either. The Church depends on the largesse of its members who provide for the Church from the fruits of their own labor and ingenuity and enterprise. For the Pope to lecture anyone on economics is about as credible as the Pope lecturing anyone on how to have better marital relations. The common good is not served by gratuitous and incompetent advice by people who make their living not by providing goods and services, but from providing moral leadership - most of the time - and living off the generosity and the fruits of the enterprise of others. The economically weakest nations, like Zimbabwe and many other African nations, many Latin American nations, and Cuba and N. Korea, are economic basket cases because of their own corruption, oppression and incompetent internal policies which assume that a small number of powerful elites know what's good for everyone else, better than they do.
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
- Goanetter Francis Rodrigues (Vasco/Toronto) book launch in London, England @ the World Goa Day festivities on 15 Aug at 7pm Details http://www.konkanisongbook.com - Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:13:57 -0700 From: isouza icso...@sancharnet.in Religion should guide business. We should criticise globalization and capitalism, when the system harms the lesser humans... Globalization has its strong and weak points. Capitalism should be moderate. Otherwise, social justice is not met in human relationships... Mario observes: These comments show the typical ignorance of how capitalism works. True capitalism is based on free market economics, which means that no government or religious leader decides what's good for everyone else and what constitutes social justice. Each individual does what they believe is in their own long term interest, which includes being considerate towards the welfare of others, i.e. social justice, not because some bureaucrat or religious leader thinks its a good idea, but because it is good for the individual. Thus individuals will decide by their decisions and actions if globalization has strong and weak points in their case, which is something they evaluate in everything they do. Capitalism is moderate and socially conscious by definition, because being immoderate and socially unconscious is not good for the capitalist. The numerous capitalists who are now either out of business or rotting in jail all forgot that key lesson. Here is a concise explanation of how this works in practice. http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/economic-miracle.html BTW, there is no pure capitalist system in the world today because of interference by politicians who think they know what's good for everyone else, better than they do. Countries today are on a spectrum which ranges from capitalism on one end and socialism on the other. In actual practice, the more capitalism in a country the better the quality of life for the most people for the longest time. The economic resurgence of India and China after 50 wasted years of extreme socialism and communism is a classic example. Some of the fruits of capitalism can be squandered however, by corruption, which is what we can see for ourselves in India, including in Goa. Fr. Ivo wrote: This advice [for the Vatican to keep its nose out of economics] is faulty. Precisely the Holy Father is teaching the world how to improve the quality of life through genuine economic activity. Mario responds: The Pope has nothing to teach the world about how capitalism works, and his recent encyclical proves it beyond any doubt. Capitalism takes care of improving the quality of life in its sphere of influence it for it's own benefit, not because someone else thinks it is a good idea. This can be observed by examining the relative quality of life in countries that are closer to the capitalism end of the economic scale, where the quality of life is far superior to those countries that are closer to the socialist end.
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
- Goanetter Francis Rodrigues (Vasco/Toronto) book launch in London, England @ the World Goa Day festivities on 15 Aug at 7pm Details http://www.konkanisongbook.com - From: Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar Sunday August 02, 2009 Religion and business rarely mix well. This shows up in the encyclical of Pope Benedict XVI. The encyclical generally supports globalization, but criticizes western companies that outsource business to developing countries. ***Religion should guide business. We should criticise globalization and capitalism, when the system harms the lesser humans... Globalization has its strong and weak points. Capitalism should be moderate. Otherwise, social justice is not met in human relationships... The Pope should be thankful for their largesse or he may have to find a job and do some useful work that generates an income:-)) ***The Holy Father has enough jobs, his mission is large and his work is for the universal Church and for the world at large. He does not need another job for his income... My advice to the Vatican, Stick to religion and helping the poor, and stay the hell away from economics. ***This advice is faulty. Precisely the Holy Father is teaching the world how to improve the quality of life through genuine economic activity. Regards. Fr.Ivo
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
- Goanetter Francis Rodrigues (Vasco/Toronto) book launch in London, England @ the World Goa Day festivities on 15 Aug at 7pm Details http://www.konkanisongbook.com - I don't think the Church has a job in supporting capitalism, moderate or otherwise. There was a time when the Church also made the mistake of thinking it could ride the tigers of colonialism and slavery. History proved it wrong. FN 2009/8/14 isouza icso...@sancharnet.in: Capitalism should be moderate. Otherwise, social justice is not met in human relationships... -- FN +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490 Konkani adages http://konkani-adages.notlong.com/ Medieval Goa http://medieval-goa.notlong.com/
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
From: Mario Goveia Ooops! Looks like Bosco has stepped in cow-cakes again:-)) I wonder what part of my comments above did Bosco fail to understand? Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 00:40:54 -0400 From: Bosco D'Mello bos...@canada.com The same part that Mario fails to understand; stuff that he writes. Same part. Mario located more people like him, more people that Aiyar-ji did a number on!! Mario responds: What is Bosco prattling on about? It looks like he is still trying to get out of the cow cakes he stepped in and still does not seem to understand a word of what I said in my post: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-August/181161.html I took issue with the Vatican's incursion into economics, and never even mentioned Aiyar-ji in my initial comments on the subject. My comments were only about the Vatican and economics. Bosco is hung up on Aiyar-ji, so I showed several other independant sources who have never heard of Aiyar-ji, that made my point that the Vatican had made bogus economic pronunciations in its encyclical. Bosco has written nothing so far to rebutt my conclusions or anything specific to defend why the Vatican strays into economics which is not its field of expertise. Bosco wrote: I hope Carmen does not take Mario's pomposity seriously. Mario responds: Mario's never-humble responses to Carmen, or anyone else on Goanet, stand on the facts and common sense he presents, and not on factless and illogical imitations of the Goan crab mentality, with have nothing specific to say about the topic under discussion.
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html -Original Message- From: George Pinto I am surprised Aiyar writes an article without quoting the actual piece he takes exception to. Here is the link to the Pope's encyclical, CHARITY IN TRUTH http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html -Original Message- From: Mario Goveia The Vatican's business is religion and morals. When they wade into economics and business they can be as moronic as Karl Marx, the Nehru family, Fidel and Raul Castro. Who the hell does Pope Benny think pays for his Gucci shoes and opulent palaces and royal lifestyle.. The Pope should be thankful for their largesse or he may have to find a job and do some useful work that generates an income My advice to the Vatican, Stick to religion and helping the poor, and stay the hell away from economics. RESPONSE: Oops!! Looks like Aiyar-ji did a number on Mario-G!! Best advice is gratuituous advice from Mario-G!! Fulfilled his daily quota, all without reading any facts!! - B
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Goanetter Francis Rodrigues (Vasco/Toronto) unveils his book The Greatest Konkani Song Hits. Launch dates: Goa (Kala Academy) on 9 Aug. 4 pm. U.K. (Staines) on 15 Aug. Canada on 20 Aug and US on 30 Aug. Details http://www.konkanisongbook.com/ 2009/8/6 Bosco D'Mello bos...@canada.com -Original Message- From: George Pinto I am surprised Aiyar writes an article without quoting the actual piece he takes exception to. Here is the link to the Pope's encyclical, CHARITY IN TRUTH http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html -Original Message- From: Mario Goveia The Vatican's business is religion and morals. When they wade into economics and business they can be as moronic as Karl Marx, the Nehru family, Fidel and Raul Castro. Who the hell does Pope Benny think pays for his Gucci shoes and opulent palaces and royal lifestyle.. The Pope should be thankful for their largesse or he may have to find a job and do some useful work that generates an income My advice to the Vatican, Stick to religion and helping the poor, and stay the hell away from economics. RESPONSE: Oops!! Looks like Aiyar-ji did a number on Mario-G!! Best advice is gratuituous advice from Mario-G!! Fulfilled his daily quota, all without reading any facts!! - B QUESTION: The sole voice of reason, puts foot in mouth, it is entertainment but I'd rather pay some money and go watch the proms. -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London.
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
- Goanetter Francis Rodrigues (Vasco/Toronto) unveils his book, The Greatest Konkani Song Hits. Launch dates: Goa (Kala Academy) on 9 Aug. 4 pm. U.K. (Staines) on 15 Aug. Canada on 20 Aug and US on 30 Aug. Details http://www.konkanisongbook.com/ - From: Mario Goveia The Vatican's business is religion and morals. When they wade into economics and business they can be as moronic as Karl Marx, the Nehru family, Fidel and Raul Castro. My advice to the Vatican, Stick to religion and helping the poor, and stay the hell away from economics. From: George Pinto I am surprised Aiyar writes an article without quoting the actual piece he takes exception to. Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:27:22 -0400 From: Bosco D'Mello bos...@canada.com Oops!! Looks like Aiyar-ji did a number on Mario-G!! Best advice is gratuituous advice from Mario-G!! Fulfilled his daily quota, all without reading any facts!! Mario responds: Ooops! Looks like Bosco has stepped in cow-cakes again:-)) He apparently knows about as much about the Vatican's attitude towards economics as he does about medical waiting lists in Canada:-)) I wonder what part of my comments above did Bosco fail to understand? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/world/europe/08pope.html Excerpt: Pope Benedict XVI on Tuesday called for a radical rethinking of the global economy, criticizing a growing divide between rich and poor and urging the establishment of a “true world political authority” to oversee the economy and work for the “common good.” He criticized the current economic system, “where the pernicious effects of sin are evident,” and urged financiers in particular to “rediscover the genuinely ethical foundation of their activity.” [end of excerpt] And, http://www.indiancatholic.in/news/storydetails.php/12752-1-6-Pope%E2%80%99s-Encyclical-creates-fear-in-outsourcing-industry-in-India Excerpt: According to Raman Roy, a pioneer in outsourcing industry in India the recent encyclical by the Pope seems to be questioning the adverse effect of Outsourcing in the world market and the economies of the western countries. The Pope writes in the Encyclical, “The so-called outsourcing of production can weaken the company’s sense of responsibility towards the stakeholders — namely the workers, the suppliers, the consumers, the natural environment and broader society — in favour of the shareholders, who are not tied to a specific geographical area and who, therefore, enjoy extraordinary mobility.” [end of excerpt] And: http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=14970 Excerpt: The Caritas et Veritate encyclical, overdue by a couple of months reportedly due to difficulties encountered in translating to Latin, underscores the need for a system with three subjects: the market, the State and civil society, to civilising of the economy, the Vatican Information Service said, quoting from the text. The encyclical is Benedict's third. Filled with terms like globalisation, market economy, outsourcing, labour unions and alternative energy,, the New York Times reported, it is not surprising that the Italian media reported that the Vatican was having difficulty translating the 144 page document into Latin. [end of excerpt] And http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1909020,00.html Excerpt: Ever wondered what God makes of the current global economic crisis? We'll never know, of course, but the man the Roman Catholic Church deems the Almighty's pastor in chief has finally weighed in with his own take: Pope Benedict XVI offers neither stock tips nor bailout plans in Caritas in Veritate (Charity in Truth), but the long-awaited third encyclical of his papacy is a wide-ranging commentary on the sources of our economic woes and a holy blueprint for recovery based on something greater than the once mighty dollar. [end of excerpt]
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar (Times of India)
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html I am surprised Aiyar writes an article without quoting the actual piece he takes exception to. Here is the link to the Pope's encyclical, CHARITY IN TRUTH http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html I am not interested in defending the Pope or the contents of the encyclical, but does Aiyar realize that outsourcing helps countries like the Philippines, Mexico, Brazil, all with large, predominantly Catholic populations. The Pope could not possibly be against Catholics. I seriously doubt there was a racial element in the encyclical, although as I have written previously on the Blessed Vaz cause, the Vatican is not immune to racial criticism. There is another point Aiyar misses. Some of the beneficiaries of outsourcing in the West are Indian owned companies who have Indian operations; many non-white owned companies too in the West outsource. So I think Aiyar's criticism is misplaced here. In any case, I have provided the link above to the encyclical and readers can make up their minds. Regards, George Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 15:43:35 +0530 From: goanetrea...@gmail.com To: goanet@lists.goanet.org The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar Sunday August 02, 2009 Religion and business rarely mix well. This shows up in the encyclical of Pope Benedict XVI. The encyclical generally supports globalization, but criticizes western companies that outsource business to developing countries.
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Please read the encyclical written by the Pope before reading S.A. Aiyar . Meera Noronha
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar (Times of India)
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Who is going to benefit from this? Is it the original Goan youth from Goa or some outside Ghatti? answer my question and I will tell you if help will be given or all hell will break loose. Regards, Derrick Da Costa Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 15:43:35 +0530 From: goanetrea...@gmail.com To: goanet@lists.goanet.org The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar Sunday August 02, 2009 Religion and business rarely mix well. This shows up in the encyclical of Pope Benedict XVI. The encyclical0 generally supports globalization, but criticizes western companies that outsource business to developing countries. --- Read all Goanet messages at: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/ ---
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar(Times of India)
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Meera, Instead of leaving us in all that killing and chilling suspense, please could you tell us specifically what is it that the Pope has not said that Swaminathan Aiyar attributes to him? Or is there something excluded from what the Pope said? Would you consider writing a rejoinder to the TOI, where the original letter was carried? Since you suggest that Aiyar isn't reflecting the Pope's views on outsourcing adequately, please show us why this is so. Till then, I'll go along with Aiyar's view. FN 2009/8/5 noronha noronha...@dataone.in: Please read the encyclical written by the Pope before reading S.A. Aiyar . Meera Noronha -- FN +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490 Konkani adages http://konkani-adages.notlong.com/ Medieval Goa http://medieval-goa.notlong.com/
Re: [Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar (Times of India)
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 15:43:35 +0530 From: goanetrea...@gmail.com To: goanet@lists.goanet.org The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar Sunday August 02, 2009 Religion and business rarely mix well. This shows up in the encyclical of Pope Benedict XVI. The encyclical generally supports globalization, but criticizes western companies that outsource business to developing countries. Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:40:32 -0400 From: derrick da costa derekdaco...@hotmail.com Who is going to benefit from this? Is it the original Goan youth from Goa or some outside Ghatti? Mario responds: The Vatican's business is religion and morals. When they wade into economics and business they can be as moronic as Karl Marx, the Nehru family, Fidel and Raul Castro, Manuel Ortega, Hugo Chavez and Robert Mugabe. Let's not leave out the great economist Kim Jong Il:-)) They continue to make the most nonsensical pronouncements and forget that they are biting the hand that feeds them. Who the hell does Pope Benny think pays for his Gucci shoes and opulent palaces and royal lifestyle if not hard working Catholics from around the world, making an income by providing goods and services, and then donate some of their hard earned income to the church. The Pope should be thankful for their largesse or he may have to find a job and do some useful work that generates an income:-)) They do not live like kings because of poor people. If Santosh and the atheists prove to be correct I will be really ticked off with all the time and money I have wasted on these high minded mor..., ...er, people, especially when they interfere in things they know nothing about. My advice to the Vatican, Stick to religion and helping the poor, and stay the hell away from economics.
[Goanet] The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar (Times of India)
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html The Pope's moral blunders on outsourcing S A Aiyar Sunday August 02, 2009 Religion and business rarely mix well. This shows up in the encyclical of Pope Benedict XVI. The encyclical0 generally supports globalization, but criticizes western companies that outsource business to developing countries. This criticism has an unfortunate ethnic slant. The Pope echoes the wish of a white labour aristocracy in the West to snatch jobs and income away from much poorer but more competitive workers in Third World countries. That is repugnant in both economic and moral terms. The western argument cannot quite be called racist. Politicians and workers in the West are not all white - some are black or brown. Yet, the ethnic implications of the western protest against outsourcing cannot be ignored. The protest rarely focuses on outsourcing to white countries like Poland, Latvia or Bulgaria. It focuses overwhelmingly on outsourcing to black, brown and yellow nations. This is mainly on economic grounds - wages are lower in Asia than in Eastern Europe, and so, the scope for outsourcing is far greater. Yet, the ethnic implications cannot be ignored. The mainly white labour aristocracy of the West is clamouring to get companies to shut down jobs and production in countries with black, brown and yellow workers. This means impoverishing poor workers to subsidize the labour aristocracy. Instead of being ashamed of trying to rob the poor of jobs, the labour aristocracy talks in high moral tones, as though it has a God-given right to jobs that have actually gone entirely on merit to the Third World. For most of history, China and India were the richest countries in the world, with the most advanced technologies and best jobs. The Industrial Revolution changed that - the best jobs moved to the West, and millions of Indian textile workers were rendered unemployed by British mills. The western labour aristocracy never complained of that shift of the best jobs from the East to the West, but cannot countenance a shift in the opposite direction. One valid western objection, on both economic and moral grounds, relates to the use (mainly by China) of prison labour, forced labour and child labour to produce cheap goods for export. Such exports have largely been checked, and now constitute a negligible part of outsourcing. This objection does not apply at all to India's burgeoning exports of software or BPO, or to the shift of 80,000 IBM jobs or 35,000 Accenture jobs to India. China has become the world's biggest supplier of manufactured goods, while India has become a major exporter of computer software, back-office services and RD. This has transformed the economies of the two most populous countries in the world, made them the fastest growing in the world, and helped hundreds of millions of poor people to rise out of poverty. You might think that the Pope would hail this as a great development for humanity. Instead, he has parroted the bogus claims of the white labour aristocracy. His encyclical says, the so-called outsourcing of production can weaken the company's sense of responsibility towards the stakeholders - namely the workers, the suppliers, the consumers, the natural environment, and broader society - in favour of the shareholders, who are not tied to a specific geographical area and who, therefore, enjoy extraordinary mobility. The racial implications of this leave me dumbstruck. The Pope has posed the issue as one of stakeholders versus shareholders. But are white stakeholders the only ones that matter? When IBM shifts 80,000 jobs to India, 80,000 Indian stakeholders replace American ones. Are the rights of 80,000 Indian stakeholders any less than those of the Americans they replace? When Chinese suppliers outbid American ones in supplying hardware to IBM, are the Chinese lesser stakeholders than the Americans they replace? The Pope is simply wrong in posing outsourcing as a conflict between shareholders and stakeholders. Outsourcing merely globalizes stakeholders across the world instead of leaving them within narrow national walls. And as a believer in one world, the Pope should be encouraging this spread of stakeholders across all humanity. Shareholders are getting globalised no less than workers, suppliers or consumers. Many shareholders of Citibank and IBM come from the West
