Re: [Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa - shall we start doing something about it?
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet joins Noel Rebello to raise money for Daddy's Home (Margao, Goa) Sponsor Noel as he climbs Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,882m or 19,298 ft) Make a donation at www.Goanet.org, click on MAKE A DONATION, state Daddy's Home in the Donation comments For more information see: http://bit.ly/SupportDaddysHome --- Soter wrote: [1] Only if JC knew the havoc that alcohol is causing in Goa's villages and its role in corruption, [2] If only JC could experience the wonders of alcohol in swinging electoral prospects JC's response: If only Soter was aware that JC is aware of the havoc that alcoholism creates. If only Soter was aware that most States in India were (unsuccessfully) dry States until not so long ago. If only Soter was aware of the flourishing 'Dalda' and 'Navsagar' industry it spawned with the associated Gundagiri and Hafta aka Morarji Tax. If only Soter would read about the WHY many countries like the US dropped prohibition. Only then, perhaps, would Soter understand that It is NOT alcohol per se but the people who are responsible for the havoc. What is Soter suggesting Goa does next .Ban Mutton Biriyani or Sex (the latter especially because it causes an increase in the population)? History beckons that we learn from it and channel our energies wisely. We could choose to lead the 'Gandhian abstinence' ourselves - if we wish to lead by way of exampleor we could agitate to impose rules on others. Not that it cannot be done. Do they not have a Ban on Alcohol in parts of the Middle East? And that ban is very successful, Is it not? (;-) jc
Re: [Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa - shall we start doing something about it?
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet joins Noel Rebello to raise money for Daddy's Home (Margao, Goa) Sponsor Noel as he climbs Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,882m or 19,298 ft) Make a donation at www.Goanet.org, click on MAKE A DONATION, state Daddy's Home in the Donation comments For more information see: http://bit.ly/SupportDaddysHome --- JC's reactions are definitely interesting and not in the least surprising to me. Alcoholism is said to be a social disease and one need not drink to think like the one who abuses it. They will be banning beef shortly, mutton will follow. Contamination of sexes is also a concern for the saffronites. Then we can chicken out. There is no relation between prohibition and the use of alcohol whatsoever. Spurious liquor deaths also take place in Indian States where alcohol is legally available. Problem is corruption - profits. Spurious liquor is also legally available in Goa over the counter. JC has become extra defensive and jumped to associating 'abstinence' with 'prohibition'. I have never mentioned prohibition. I was talking of self-abstinence. If the government does not curb alcohol availability then probably the women will do it in time to come. Already one village in Bicholim taluka has shut down all the bars. Surprising for Goa, isn' t it? -Soter
Re: [Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa - shall we start doing something about it?
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet joins Noel Rebello to raise money for Daddy's Home (Margao, Goa) Sponsor Noel as he climbs Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,882m or 19,298 ft) Make a donation at www.Goanet.org, click on MAKE A DONATION, state Daddy's Home in the Donation comments For more information see: http://bit.ly/SupportDaddysHome --- soter so...@bsnl.in wrote: [1] I have never mentioned prohibition. I was talking of self-abstinence. [2] If the government does not curb alcohol availability then. [3] Already one village in Bicholim taluka has shut down all the bar JC's response: Dear Soter, While points 1 and 2+3 (above) appear to contradict each other, albeit partially, we may all wish to exercise abstinence (do not know what self-abstinence means). Now that I have agreed with you, almost, I believe ..let me get on with what I have to do. good wishes jc
Re: [Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa - shall we start doing something about it?
---
http://www.GOANET.org
---
Goanet joins Noel Rebello to raise money for Daddy's Home (Margao, Goa)
Sponsor Noel as he climbs Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,882m or 19,298 ft)
Make a donation at www.Goanet.org, click on MAKE A DONATION,
state Daddy's Home in the Donation comments
For more information see: http://bit.ly/SupportDaddysHome
---
Carmita says:
The order of shaking the corrupt culprits to the core, is irrelevant. The
entire system of Goa and all politicians from all parties, all governments
officers, police, etc. etc. and big business, every one needs to be shaken
to the core and given the shock treatment preferably all at the same time -
a very clear and powerful message that civil society of Goa had ENOUGH!
Soter replies:
Probably it is me who is totally ignorant about ground realities on
corruption after being in politics from a young age.
Even then, I do have suggestions.
Let each one focus on themselves and fulfill their fundamental duties of
abuiding by all laws, the rest will follow.
Build and design nothing on hill slopes like our great environmentalists
preach and do not practice. (Now do not tell me you did not understand)
Minimise on your luxuries and do not clog the streets of Panjim with big
cars, the villages with hazardous technological and industrial wastes from
lavish consumeritstic life styles.
Do not take grants from the government and sing their tunes.
Do not attend programs attended by politicians and corrupt officers.
Do not go for any favours to the politicians.
Say no to booze in Goa.
Say no to Casinos and other social evils.
Do not also patronise media which are known to be 'fixing agents'.
Do not take sponsors from miners, builders, casinos, liqour barons,
Finally , all this is at the core of corrupting society. The political
market satisfies their customers. We are in a market economy whether you
like it or not.
Sorry Carmita, after experiencing the operations of Nitoll jinn, Jagrut
Goem, Goa Bachao, Lok Shakti, I would rather trust a drug addict, goon and
a prostitute, who have contributed much to my understanding on the realities
in life, but not many of those so called opportunistic parasites who float
around goa's towns claiming to be upright.
Re: [Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa - shall we start doing something about it?
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet joins Noel Rebello to raise money for Daddy's Home (Margao, Goa) Sponsor Noel as he climbs Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,882m or 19,298 ft) Make a donation at www.Goanet.org, click on MAKE A DONATION, state Daddy's Home in the Donation comments For more information see: http://bit.ly/SupportDaddysHome --- Soter responded to Carmen( I am responding to Soter) My dear Soter, I believe that both you and Carmen have your Goan-hearts in the right places. Perhaps, you may wish to concentrate on common ground to achieve a common goal. I'd also suggest the following (part of this is based on advertising pearls): Just like Business markets its products with Short recognizable names i.e. Lux, Rexona, Kingfisher instead of Appat-ball, Sarvajanik and Jhankar (a brand of radio which failed to take off), pick a simple name for the movement - not some SuRaj, Pox, Dal, Andolan and Abhiyan etc. Understand your target audience. If you have to spend time and energy to explain the meaning of the NAME of the organization, you have lost the first two rounds of a 4 round tournament. Having said that, may I say that I find this 10 individual march/gathering a brilliant figment of someone's over optimistic enthusiasm. Movements are best when they are ground based and consistent; not some one shot deal and politics thereafter. Now my responses to Soter's suggestions. [1] Let each one focus on themselves and fulfill their fundamental duties of abuiding by all laws, the rest will follow. JC: Absolutely [2] Build and design nothing on hill slopes like our great environmentalists preach and do not practice. JC: Absolutely [3] Minimise on your luxuries and do not clog the streets of Panjim with big cars, the villages with hazardous technological and industrial wastes from lavish consumeritstic life styles. JC: Absolutely [4] Do not take grants from the government and sing their tunes. JC: Absolutely [5] Do not attend programs attended by politicians and corrupt officers. JC: Neither in Goa nor abroad. If we do, we are just aiding and abetting corruption [6] Do not go for any favours to the politicians. JC: Absolutely [7] Say no to booze in Goa. JC : Disagree. We should ONLY decide for ourselves. Legislating prohibition will (as in the past) spawn a whole new industry of 'liquor-running', boot-legging and the production and sale of dangerous and uncontrolled liquor. [8] Say no to Casinos and other social evils. JC: If the idea is to ban gambling ban ALL forms of gambling. Please understand the man-power needed to enforce this and the HAFTA it could generate. We, ourselves, could decide for ourselves that we will NOT have any dealings with the gambling industry. [9] Do not also patronise media which are known to be 'fixing agents'. JC: Absolutely [10] Do not take sponsors from miners, builders, casinos, liqour barons, JC: Absolutely, we should neither accept sponsorship nor attend functions (including Dances and Shows) which have any of the chaps/companies mentioned by Soter as sponsors or patrons. Just that you may know there are a number of physicians who do NOT accept any gifts, trips and dinner invitations from Big Pharma or their agents. Yours truly is one of them good wishes jc
Re: [Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa - shall we start doing something about it?
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet joins Noel Rebello to raise money for Daddy's Home (Margao, Goa) Sponsor Noel as he climbs Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,882m or 19,298 ft) Make a donation at www.Goanet.org, click on MAKE A DONATION, state Daddy's Home in the Donation comments For more information see: http://bit.ly/SupportDaddysHome --- Thanks J. Colaco and Soter. If things were that simple , what are people waiting for? I think all you have done is touch the tip of the iceberg and just point out some of the areas in which corruption is rampant and attitudes of people need to change. Without leadeship and guidance no one will change. Where is the incentive to stop corruption? Where are the legal consequences? Where are the criminal prosecutions? People are not going to out of the blue stop being corrupt and follow the guiding principles Soter so kindly layed out. How are they going to know about your principles to eradicate corruption Soter? Going to publish it on local papers? Corruption is everywhere, in every sphere of life in Goa. I was shocked that people in Goa even need to bribe to get jobs, even police jobs! I think the meaning of integrity is lost in today's Goa. Nothing is going to change unless there is some serious anti-corruption campaign and people begin the feel immediate consequences when asking for bribes. How are you going to stop the politicians from buying their votes during elections? How are you going to stop the ministers from taking bribes to allow people to build in the wrong places, give licenses to builders, miners and gambling casinos and so on? If you think people are going to just suddenly overnight, for no reason at all , change a lifetime of bad habits, I think you are mistaken. We may not have 10 people marching the streets in Panjim, but even if we have 100, that will be a beginning of something. Just the first step. I think there are thousands of people who are desperate, furious, exasperated and helpless about the culture of corruption in Goa. They need to come out and let the corrupt people know that goan society will no longer tolerate corruption - or will they? Corruption is a crime, isn't it? Perhaps it isn't in Goa! Best wishes Carmen On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 3:58 PM, J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com wrote: Soter responded to Carmen( I am responding to Soter) My dear Soter, I believe that both you and Carmen have your Goan-hearts in the right places. Perhaps, you may wish to concentrate on common ground to achieve a common goal. I'd also suggest the following (part of this is based on advertising pearls): Just like Business markets its products with Short recognizable names i.e. Lux, Rexona, Kingfisher instead of Appat-ball, Sarvajanik and Jhankar (a brand of radio which failed to take off), pick a simple name for the movement - not some SuRaj, Pox, Dal, Andolan and Abhiyan etc. Understand your target audience. If you have to spend time and energy to explain the meaning of the NAME of the organization, you have lost the first two rounds of a 4 round tournament. Having said that, may I say that I find this 10 individual march/gathering a brilliant figment of someone's over optimistic enthusiasm. Movements are best when they are ground based and consistent; not some one shot deal and politics thereafter. Now my responses to Soter's suggestions. [1] Let each one focus on themselves and fulfill their fundamental duties of abuiding by all laws, the rest will follow. JC: Absolutely [2] Build and design nothing on hill slopes like our great environmentalists preach and do not practice. JC: Absolutely [3] Minimise on your luxuries and do not clog the streets of Panjim with big cars, the villages with hazardous technological and industrial wastes from lavish consumeritstic life styles. JC: Absolutely [4] Do not take grants from the government and sing their tunes. JC: Absolutely [5] Do not attend programs attended by politicians and corrupt officers. JC: Neither in Goa nor abroad. If we do, we are just aiding and abetting corruption [6] Do not go for any favours to the politicians. JC: Absolutely [7] Say no to booze in Goa. JC : Disagree. We should ONLY decide for ourselves. Legislating prohibition will (as in the past) spawn a whole new industry of 'liquor-running', boot-legging and the production and sale of dangerous and uncontrolled liquor. [8] Say no to Casinos and other social evils. JC: If the idea is to ban gambling ban ALL forms of gambling. Please understand the man-power needed to enforce this and the HAFTA it could generate. We, ourselves, could decide for ourselves that we will
[Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa – shall we start doing something about it
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet joins Noel Rebello to raise money for Daddy's Home (Margao, Goa) Sponsor Noel as he climbs Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,882m or 19,298 ft) Make a donation at www.Goanet.org, click on MAKE A DONATION, state Daddy's Home in the Donation comments For more information see: http://bit.ly/SupportDaddysHome --- Soter says: Two positives could lead to a fatal short circuit. Electrical current needs a positive and negative to flow smoothly. Carmita says: Sorter, a fatal short circuit is exactly what some people in Goa need! And plenty of shocks by lightening followed by thunder storms will probably speed up the process of cleaning up Goa. Carmita says: The entire system of Goa and all politicians from all parties, all governments officers, police, big business, every one needs to be shaken to the core. Declare WAR to corruption. There is a solution! It is not an easy solution. Catch them red handed and NAME and SHAME and protests to start with. Above all Sorter, what is needed is the will of the people and if all join forces we can do it. But we need to cooperate and be positive! Our individual past experiences, sucesses and failures and disappointments etc should be used as lessons to build up the FORCE AGAINST CORRUPTION, and not undermine efforts, however small, against this evil, which is killing Goa. With reference to all above Rajendra says: To start, nothing about corruption but pure physics: In the context of normal electricity connections with positives and negatives of standard potential values, two positives do not lead to short circuit; the voltage merely doubles. A positive and a negative (or earth) that can result in short circuit as well as smooth flow of current. The former occurs when there is no resistence (a bulb, heater, fan or other appliance) between the two terminals and latter when there is adequate resistence. If two positive terminals (with unequal potential values) are created in a laboratory, current would flow smoothly from positive (with higher potential) to positive (with lower potential) if there is adequate resistence in between. Ditto with two negative terminals. Scientifically, there is no such thing as positive and negative. These are relative referances. Higher potential value terminal is referred to as positive and the lower one as negative. If you use transformers, positive terminal with reference to one terminal can become negative with reference to another. Coming to corruption: Carmita’s prescription is excellent. Let us garner resources. Four Ms: Men, Machinery, Methods, Materials. Just as electricity flows smoothly only if there is adequate resistence, the political system can run smoothly only if there is adequate resistence (what Carmita suggests) by the people. Regards Rajendra
Re: [Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa - shall we start doing something about it?
---
http://www.GOANET.org
---
Goanet joins Noel Rebello to raise money for Daddy's Home (Margao, Goa)
Sponsor Noel as he climbs Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,882m or 19,298 ft)
Make a donation at www.Goanet.org, click on MAKE A DONATION,
state Daddy's Home in the Donation comments
For more information see: http://bit.ly/SupportDaddysHome
---
Thanks JC and Carmen.
Only if JC knew the havoc that alcohol is causing in Goa's villages and its
role in corruption, I do not know if he would still disagree with me.
The good old days of social pressure are no more. The tavern keeper (gadi)
had some ethics then, but no more today. See the state of the youth in the
villages to realise the damge to society.
If only JC could experience the wonders of alcohol in swinging electoral
prospects, I do not know if he would still choose to disagree.
I knew that I was touching a sensitive spot for all goans. I have realised
this all since 1988 and will keep stressing that curbs on alcohol is the one
step desperately needed to Save Goa.
That Goa is not 'nitoll' neither 'jagrut' anymore. There is no 'lok' behind
the 'shakti', except politician and booze bhakti.
Sorry Goans, abstinence from intoxicants has become one of my principles for
consideration of any associations in activism.
-Soter
Re: [Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa - shall we start doing something about it?
---
http://www.GOANET.org
---
Goanet joins Noel Rebello to raise money for Daddy's Home (Margao, Goa)
Sponsor Noel as he climbs Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,882m or 19,298 ft)
Make a donation at www.Goanet.org, click on MAKE A DONATION,
state Daddy's Home in the Donation comments
For more information see: http://bit.ly/SupportDaddysHome
---
Carmita wrote:
And please, the sceptics and cynics out there, save your latin and
sneering and negativity for yourselves. Positive thinking is what we need.
Soter says:
Two positives could lead to a fatal short circuit. Electrical current needs
a positive and negative to flow smoothly.
One among the positives got a State funeral recently. There are many more in
line for the 50th Anniversary of Goa's liberation.
Carmita poses the right question:
If no massive attempt is made to say NO to corruption, how are we ever
going to achieve a society where integrity and honesty are again part of the
equation in life in Goa?
Soter says:
With whom do we start? Gaudes or Kamats?
[Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa - shall we start doing something about it?
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet joins Noel Rebello to raise money for Daddy's Home (Margao, Goa) Sponsor Noel as he climbs Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,882m or 19,298 ft) Make a donation at www.Goanet.org, click on MAKE A DONATION, state Daddy's Home in the Donation comments For more information see: http://bit.ly/SupportDaddysHome --- There is no doubt that CORRUPTION has become endemic in Goa. That is not surprizing, because it is endemic in India, and in other countries of course. But I am now concerned about Goa. Everyone seems to be appalled by corruption and affected by it. It affects every aspect of people's professional and daily lives, governance, and business. It has become part of the DNA of Goa. I think time has come to stop talking about it and do something about it. The 9th of December has been declared by the UN the international anti-corruption day. An ideal and symbolic day to launch a campaign against corruption. Time to join forces irrespective of political affiliations and religion, and express the popular mounting indignation and rejection of this culture of corruption that is destroying Goa in every respect. And please, the sceptics and cynics out there, save your latin and sneering and negativity for yourselves. Positive thinking is what we need. If no massive attempt is made to say NO to corruption, how are we ever going to achieve a society where integrity and honesty are again part of the equation in life in Goa? Carmen Miranda
[Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa - shall we start doing something about it?
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet joins Noel Rebello to raise money for Daddy's Home (Margao, Goa) Sponsor Noel as he climbs Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,882m or 19,298 ft) Make a donation at www.Goanet.org, click on MAKE A DONATION, state Daddy's Home in the Donation comments For more information see: http://bit.ly/SupportDaddysHome --- Dear Carmen, The comon man and woman in Goa are in agreement with you. All of us who love Goa need to stand up and give a clear message to the corrupt Powers that be that Enough is Enough. The depths to which Goa has sunk is downright shocking and we see the effects at all levels and in all spheres. We see it among our Ministers and Politicians out to fool the Goans through all sorts of ridiculous and grandiose con-schemes. We see it among the Government Machinery whether the TCP, BDO, Directorate of Panchayats, Forest Department in Goa. We see it at our Panchayat Levels where Panchayat Members want to be given an equal opportunity to rake in the moolah so they take turns at being the Sarpanch for a certain duration of time and totally disregard the Gram Sabha members and set goondas to attack the villagers. We see Panchayat members disregarding the resolutions and falsifying the Minutes. We see it among our Police and Law Enforcement Authorities in Goa. What example are we setting for the future generations if we allow the corrupt to get away with their blatant corruption? Enough is Enough - We are with you on this. Let us all join together to express our condemnation of the Corruption that has set in. Together we will bring a change in Goa. Say no to Corruption and the Corrupt! From: Carmen Miranda carmitamira...@gmail.com To: goa...@goanet.org Subject: [Goanet] The endemic corruption in Goa - shall we start doing something about it? Message-ID: aanlktinjtux_xqmvjex3fmut96pq_eedc=wqqso+_...@mail.gmail.comwqqso%2b_...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There is no doubt that CORRUPTION has become endemic in Goa. That is not surprizing, because it is endemic in India, and in other countries of course. But I am now concerned about Goa. Everyone seems to be appalled by corruption and affected by it. It affects every aspect of people's professional and daily lives, governance, and business. It has become part of the DNA of Goa. I think time has come to stop talking about it and do something about it. The 9th of December has been declared by the UN the international anti-corruption day. An ideal and symbolic day to launch a campaign against corruption. Time to join forces irrespective of political affiliations and religion, and express the popular mounting indignation and rejection of this culture of corruption that is destroying Goa in every respect. And please, the sceptics and cynics out there, save your latin and sneering and negativity for yourselves. Positive thinking is what we need. If no massive attempt is made to say NO to corruption, how are we ever going to achieve a society where integrity and honesty are again part of the equation in life in Goa? Carmen Miranda
