Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
--- On Sun, 6/28/09, Eddie Fernandes ed...@fernandes.u-net.com wrote: Now, suppose you tell us your views on 2. The retrospective action of the Goa Government in suspending property transactions of foreigners and threatening to confiscate them. I would be outraged that a previously legal transaction could be subsequently reversed. HOWEVER, and this is key, how many of the foreign nationals transactions were legal to begin with? Since Eddie has raised this issue, can he advise? How many did not involve bribes? How many, did not fake residency requirements? How many complied with with foreign currency regulations? How many complied with Indian tax laws? Is Eddie defending illegal transactions? George
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British Families in Goa
Hi Karen Young, It is unfortunate that the govt is trying to confiscate the property you legitimately purchased. If you have registered the properety and you possess all the relevant documents, , then you all should band yourselves together and seek legal counsel without delay, What has been done has been done. Dont give up the fight to protect your savings and yr property. Enjoy a peaceful lifestyle in Goa. Best wishes Godfrey Rasquinha- UAE Subject: Re: [Goanet] Treatme gal counselk le together and seeyourselvesnt of British Families in Goaelves Hi I am one of the British who bought property in Goa after visiting for years,please sign our petition to the British Government and help us.If we loose our home in Goa we loose all our savings and pension fund. Thank you From all the British who have bought Karen Cornel DaCosta: Goa Land Purchases by Foreigners 25 Jun: From GoaNet Highlights by Cornel DaCosta. Readers will be familiar with the difficulties faced by British families who have, in good faith and following proper procedures, legitimately bought homes in Goa. They currently seem to be hounded out of such properties by methods I consider devious and unethical. While many of us live comfortably in homes we purchased in the UK, the plight of many Brits in Goa is very sad and uncertain. Consequently, they have now petitioned PM Brown to resolve the impasse in which properties purchased by foreign nationals were not being registered. To read about this click here. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Goa/Goan-properties-UK-citizens-petition-Brown/articleshow/4689436.cms There is an element of urgency to this petition as it will help all British citizens, of Goan origin or not who may find themselves in an identical situation regarding purchased properties in Goa. To stand up and be counted, go, before 17th July 2009, to http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/goahomes
[Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa.
iggy.fernan...@hotmail.co.uk Treatment of British families in Goa. Dear Goankars, For my own personal information, could someone on Goanet, please let me know:- (1) What legal documents, are required for foreigners to buy property in Goa? (2)In which state of India, or, country around the world, can foreigners, especially these British families be allowed to buy properties? (3) Why do the Brits want to buy property in Goa, while Goans throughout the world are not interested?? Regards From: ignatius fernandes Subject: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa. For the first time I agree with F.N. (Fredrick Noronha) that nobody cares about the indigenous Goans who cannot afford to buy their own homes in Goa. Regards Ignatius Fernandes.
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
Folks, Today the Economic Times of India carries a highly relevant update on the question of foreign owned property in Goa. The paper reports that the Goa Government has been denied the power to declare legitimate past purchases illegal and are proposing to take a different route! To my knowledge, the Goa newspapers have not reported this and while I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the report, I assume that it is true. Headline: Goa seeks special powers to control land sale to foreigners 29 June 2009. Economic Times (India). Excerpts: The Goa government has asked for special powers to regulate land sale to foreigners after it failed to get the President's nod for the Bill which empowered subregistrars to refuse registration of land sold to foreigners. This comes in the wake of a campaign launched by over 200 UK citizens demanding right to buy land in Goa. 335 words. For full text see http://goanvoiceuk.wordpress.com/2009/06/29/goa-seeks-special-powers-to-cont rol-land-sale-to-foreigners-economic-times-29-jun-2009-page-4/ [The petition does not demand the right to buy land in Goa but to remove the threat of confiscation of property bought legally. To view the petition and to sign it, click here. http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/goahomes/] If the links do not work, go to the Goan Voice site For almost two years the Government has not permitted registration by and sale of property where a foreigner (i.e. white) is involved. This has been a blanket ban and it is believed that it was going to apply retrospective action on law it was hoping to get approved. Eddie Fernandes
[Goanet] Treatment of British Families in Goa
Hi Romeo Ferns, Easily said than done. When the East Africans/ Kenyans in particular applied to come to India. India refused them entry saying that you have a British Passport - Go to Britain. Alternatively, give up your BP. Feeling sorry for the British now is not fair, just because they are white. Caj. Hi Karen Young,It is unfortunate that the govt is trying to confiscate the property you legitimately purchased. If you have registered the properety and you possess all the relevant documents, , then you all should band yourselvestogether and seek legal counsel without delay, What has been done has been done. Dont give up the fight to protect your savings and yr property.Enjoy a peaceful lifestyle in Goa.
[Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
Pardon me if my thinking on this issue is a bit 'clouded';I had all along assumed that the discussion was not so much about foreigners pushing up the price of property(or fish for that matter!), to the detriment of the indigenous Goans, but rather, the sad plight of those British expatriates who, having gone through reputed lawyers and Estate Agents, and bought their properties legally(after all one expects local lawyers/Estate Agents to be au fait with the laws obtaining in their own country?)- now find themselves in the unfortunate situation of losing these properties and their life savings solely because a law is now being applied retrospectively to Goa. By all means, restrict the sale of property to foreigners and perhaps, speculative land sharks too, but where property has been legally acquired, I cannot see the justification in wanting to take it back. No one is condoning illegal deals, but surely if lawyers, Estate Agents and Banks were all involved in the initial advice-giving and subsequent transactions, then I feel it is they who should now face the music. Mervyn Maciel --
[Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa/need based buying
Fred, What exactly is need based buying? Who determines who needs and who does not need? Furthermore, are you really sure you are really reflecting the views of the local side? What about the locals who wants to sell their property at the highest price possible? Why do you wish to restrict their rights to get the best deal possible? Instead of promoting rather arbitrary laws that seek to restrict individual freedoms, the better approach would be to push for a system that provides greater clarity and transparency to all the parties. Everyone who has bought or sold property in Goa (perhaps this applies to India in general) knows that there are two books - official and under the table. Accurate official statistical information on parameters like prices is an oxymoron and ownership rights are byzantine. Conversely, there is much data from around the world (as well as within India) to suggest that your rent and price control schemes do not work, for they only serve to choke long term supply in the affected market. Marlon --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक न fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: You guys talk about local thinking. But what about expat thinking? Isn't it strange that nobody sheds a single tear for the many Goans-in-Goa who can't afford to buy a home after working hard their full life here? And the expat/foreigner/non-resident buying of homes is only pushing up speculation (not need-based buying) in the unreal real estate sector. It all says something about our attitudes, values, and which side we choose to take! FN
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
I bought a house in London without ever having been a British citizen - not once, but twice. I did the same in Australia. BTW, were the British passport holders you talk about, British citizens or British Protected citizens ? - not that it makes a difference to the argument. - Original Message From: Cajetan Alvares cajul...@googlemail.com To: goa...@goanet.org Sent: Saturday, 27 June, 2009 6:34:52 AM Subject: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa J. Colaco said: I have been reading these posts about these innocents and how, onthe other hand, East African Goans were able to buy houses etc in theUK. - Well, Hi All, East African Goans have British Passports. Their Grandfathers had BP. If the British can give up their British Passport and take Indian citizenship, they too can buy land in Goa, or any where else in India. Caitan. Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
2009/6/28 Eddie Fernandes ed...@fernandes.u-net.com and registered the Government should not act retrospectively. Gabe Menezes has provided the Cidade de Goa instance as an example of local thinking. You guys talk about local thinking. But what about expat thinking? Isn't it strange that nobody sheds a single tear for the many Goans-in-Goa who can't afford to buy a home after working hard their full life here? And the expat/foreigner/non-resident buying of homes is only pushing up speculation (not need-based buying) in the unreal real estate sector. It all says something about our attitudes, values, and which side we choose to take! FN
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
I believe that both Eddie and Frederick are making very valid points - which do not have to be mutually exclusive. Eddie's first point is an universally accepted (in democratic countries) that a Law should not penalise a person for an act done (in good faith) before the law (which now places sanctions against it) came into effect. Eddie's second point is not necessarily in tandem with the first - as 'grandfathering' is different from 'penalising'. FN's point is also one which is discussed and dissected all over the world where the local (tax paying and working the soil) population are disadvantaged by the greed of the speculators and investors. These alleged 'investments' do not necessarily benefit the locals commensurate to the amount the locals are expected to pay in terms of the increase in the cost of living and cost of owning a simple home. FN makes a very good needs-based-buying point. I personally believe that Goans need to look again at those tourist facilities which inordinately push the cost of staple food (eg Fish) out of the reach of the 'sons of the soil' who toil on the soil, and also this speculative Second or Third Homes stuff which are built by destroying the Goan greenery and environment. I was appalled when I last saw the concrete poured in an ugly format - all over Calangute to Baga, Betim and Verem, Bambolim and Navelim. (I am sure there are other areas of wanton destruction). Some countries have 'equalised' the economic balance by increasing the taxation on non-resident or non-primary homes. They have also increased the taxes payable on homes owned by non-nationals. They have then ploughed back these taxes into the local economy and infrastructure eg roads, hospitals, schools etc.. Taxes on non-resident owned or non-primary-residence property can legally be increased at any time - as long as the taxes are not retrospective. The non-primary residence-tax will affect ALL speculators including Goans. Wonder how many politicians will go along with this measure. Unless the voters demand it and the journos keep them adequately and repeatedly informed of their rights. But then ! jc [1] Eddie Fernandes wrote that: the Government should not act retrospectively. [2] Eddie also noted that:Gabe Menezes has provided the Cidade de Goa instance as an example of local thinking. [3] Frederick [FN] Noronha wrote: the expat/foreigner/non-resident buying of homes is only pushing up speculation (not need-based buying) in the unreal real estate sector.
[Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa.
For the first time I agree with F.N. (Fredrick Noronha) that nobody cares about the indigenous Goans who cannot afford to buy their own homes in Goa. After working hard all their life in Goa. It is the Brits and Bharatis who come down from Mumbai and Delhi and buy all these ancestral homes and pay over the odds which the native Goans cannot match. In fairness I would rather have a Brit as my neighbour in Goa rather than a Bharati for I know a Brit would keep the place clean and tidy. Regards Ignatius Fernandes. _ Get the best of MSN on your mobile http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/147991039/direct/01/
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
Dear Frederick, You write: But what about expat thinking? I had written (deleted by you): I accept the need for any country to restrict the sale of property to foreigners... I could go further - we have a part of the UK where UK nationals from other parts of the country are not allowed to buy for the same reasons you provide. See for example: http://www.countrylife.co.uk/property/guidesbuy/article/68122/Property-Guide -Jersey.html I also believe that property prices were very low in Goa ten or even five years ago and what we have also witnessed is the bringing into line with other parts of India - particularly when you consider that the per capita income in Goa in the highest in India. Now, suppose you tell us your views on 1. The retrospective action of the Goa Govt. in legalising the Cidade de Goa encroachment 2. The retrospective action of the Goa Government in suspending property transactions of foreigners and threatening to confiscate them. 3. The percentage of Goa property sales in recent years by a) residents of other Indian states b) NRIs, PIOs and OCIs. c) Foreign Nationals. 4. Do you believe in taking sides based on self-interest and greed or on justice and fair play? I must confess that I find Dr Colaco's emotive arguments about the price of fish difficult to stomach! Is he aware that: 1. Over 90% of the catch off the coast of Goa is exported and it is this demand that is fuelling prices. 2. If foreign tourists were responsible of the high price of fish in Goa a) the price would be very much lower in areas neighbouring Goa with supplies pouring in from there to take into account higher prices available in Goa. b) the price would drop in the low tourist season. Eddie Fernandes == -Original Message- From: Frederick [FN] Noronha You guys talk about local thinking. But what about expat thinking? Isn't it strange that nobody sheds a single tear for the many Goans-in-Goa who can't afford to buy a home after working hard their full life here? And the expat/foreigner/non-resident buying of homes is only pushing up speculation (not need-based buying) in the unreal real estate sector. It all says something about our attitudes, values, and which side we choose to take! FN
[Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa..........
Not just British families, but ANYONE who wants to buy property in Goa has to go through excruciating bureaucratic processes to complete a fairly simple transaction. The process if everything is in order, can take over one year ! I dont want to take the bandwidth to describe the lengthy process, frustration and obvious inducement to give a bribe that I endured to get a fairly straightforward transaction taken care of. If anyone is interested, I would be happy to describe the months long process that I endured. The established processes create the ideal climate for unscrupulous middlemen to hoodwink the innocent property buyers, cut corners, give bribes etc. to get a transaction done and despite all this the end result may not meet the test of law. The whole process is so mind boggling that I could write a book about it. I still feel that many if not all foreigners do not perpetrate these spurious real estate transactions but are taken advantage of and are the victims. So before we throw rocks at foreigners in all fairness, lets examine both sides of the issue.
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British Families in Goa
I agree with Mervyn on his comments regarding property purchased by British Families in Goa. These purchases were made in good faith by these British families and were sold by goans in good faith without breaking any laws at the time of sale. How can the Indian govt suddenly wake up and apply their newly promulgated laws retrospectively. This is unthinkable and illegal. It is very unfair that the Indian govt would implement such laws. What has been done has been done and should be left alone. These new laws can be applied only to new sales, if any. Godfrey Rasquinha - UAE - Original Message From: Mervyn Elsie Maciel mervynels.watuwasha...@googlemail.com To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:28:43 AM Subject: [Goanet] Treatment of British Families in Goa I agree wholeheartedly with Tony de Sa's comments.Where property has been acquired illegally, by all means, let the culprits - be they politicians, lawyers or whoever, face the rigors of the law. Some Brits may well have been gullible and trusted their host advisers. If, however, they have gone through reputable and registered lawyers and Estate Agents, then I feel the onus of responsibility should lie on the shoulders of the latter. I do not in any way wish to appear to be siding with the Brits, but I think there is such a thing as trust and fair play. Mervyn Maciel --
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British Families in Goa
Mervyn Maciel wrote: [1] If, however, they have gone through reputable and registered lawyers and Estate Agents, then I feel the onus of responsibility should lie on the shoulders of the latter. [2] I do not in any way wish to appear to be siding with the Brits, but I think there is such a thing as trust and fair play. Dear Mervyn, I agree with you. The responsibility lies on the shoulders of the real estate agents and lawyers. If the government has NOT been a party to these 'land' acquisitions and transfers, I do not see how they can get involved, per se. If the lawyers and/or real estate agents have been negligent - the only remedy is legal action (civil). Governments do not commence civil actions in matters to which they are not the aggrieved party. If however, criminal negligence is proven, or criminality is being alleged - a complaint should be made to the police. I trust that the complainant has the necessary documentation (and clean hands) when he comes forward with a complaint. This 'stuff' is one of the reasons why in the UK, the new Land registration act ( I believe it was in 2002) was introducedand yet (at my last reading), the majority of the land in Britain was not registered. Hope this helps. While this is a 'issue of equity, fairplay and trust (as is meant colloquially), It is also a matter of legal possession of land, any lean or Trust ( as is known in legal context) involved and the basic requirement that anyone who parts with money of this magnitude - does due diligence. In any event, anybody coming to look for equity must have clean hands. Many lawyers are crooked because they know that the 'wheels of justice' are slow - esp with crooked lawyers slowing them down and fleecing the innocents with threats and the like. jc
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
2009/6/27 J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com Eddie Fernandes asked two questions: The answers are as follows. A private member's bill if voted upon and passed by Parliament - becomes law, and Laws in democratic countries are not retroactive. BTW: never mind the spiel in the bill What is important is WHAT the law actually states. jc RESPONSE: Talk about not being retro - what about the legislation passed to accommodate Cidade de Goa, to legalise a blatant breaking of the law? Seems to me and this holds true, Indians can and do things beyond comprehension. -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London.
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
Dear Gabe, Without commenting on whether the Cidade de Goa accommodation was just or not, 'grand-fathering' is an instrument which is used by many countries to 'regularise' something irregular done in the past. Even in UK law, one is likely to find evidence of that. That, I submit, is different from penalising somebody on the basis of newly enacted (effective say Jan 1, 2009) laws - for doing something in 2008 or earlier; something which was not illegal (or unjust) in 2008 and earlier! The last such injustice was done by the MGP when it enacted a law which transferred (a la Zimbabwe) land to the one who worked on it. (Adequate provisions were made to exempt the Mines from this Act). Hello! Concerned Goans and journos (OK, omit the journos) must get ALL the facts of the cases, and provided nothing illegal has been done by the purchaser (knowingly or otherwise) -lobby the government. jc [1] JC wrote: Eddie Fernandes asked two questions: The answers are as follows. A private member's bill if voted upon and passed by Parliament - becomes law, and Laws in democratic countries are not retroactive. [2] Gabe Menezes wrote: Talk about not being retro - what about the legislation passed to accommodate Cidade de Goa, to legalise a blatant breaking of the law? Seems to me and this holds true, Indians can and do things beyond comprehension.
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
Hi George, Thank you for your interest in the issue. The reference to the Times of India article was provided because it is recent and provides some of Mr Shantaram Naik's views. Do you agree with them? The question of retrospective legislation and interpretation is covered in the links to the two BBC items I have provided. Have you read them? I found the link to the recording of another BBC radio programme (17 mins) of 23 May 2008. Go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/items/01/2008_21_fri.shtml In March 2008 the Goa Assembly passed an amendment to the Registration of Property Act to deny property transfer rights to foreigners. The amendment requires Presidential consent which has not been forthcoming hence Mr Naik's private member's bill and in the meantime the Goa Government continues to deny foreigners transfer rights and threatens property confiscation. I accept the need for any country to restrict the sale of property to foreigners but my basic contention is that when sale deeds have been issued and registered the Government should not act retrospectively. Gabe Menezes has provided the Cidade de Goa instance as an example of local thinking. Best wishes Eddie Fernandes == -Original Message- From: goanet-boun...@lists.goanet.org [mailto:goanet-boun...@lists.goanet.org] On Behalf Of georgejpi...@yahoo.com Sent: 26 June 2009 22:42 To: estb. 1994!Goa's premiere mailing list Subject: Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa Hi Eddie First you state everyone has missed the point. Then you write The Goa Government intends to introduce a law to make legitimate past purchases unlawful!. Can you please point to the Times of India article where that is stated? I fail to see where it stated LEGITIMATE past deals will be made unlawful. Can you also point to the where it states the GOA GOVERNMENT intends to introduce a law George
[Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
In my personal opinion, Goans are not objecting to British families having second homes in Goa per se. The real issues involved here are 1) the illegal purchases of Goan homes 2) the scarcity of Goan land resources 3) the creation of gated communities. I will qualify that all purchases are not illegal but those that are should be treated according to the laws in existence. Those involved in misleading the British buyers should be brought to book. The whole nexus of Real Estate agents, lawyers, fixers and Registrars must be exposed and suitable punishments imposed. Some way has to be worked out so that the innocent are not losers. -- тσиу Tony de Sa Ph: +91 832 2470 148 M: +91 9975162897 E: tonyd...@gmail.com The future will be better tomorrow. - Dan Quayle
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
Absolutely true that, Tony. Well said floriano goasuraj - Original Message - From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com To: Goa's Premiere Mailing List, Estd 1994 goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa In my personal opinion, Goans are not objecting to British families having second homes in Goa per se. The real issues involved here are 1) the illegal purchases of Goan homes 2) the scarcity of Goan land resources 3) the creation of gated communities. I will qualify that all purchases are not illegal but those that are should be treated according to the laws in existence. Those involved in misleading the British buyers should be brought to book. The whole nexus of Real Estate agents, lawyers, fixers and Registrars must be exposed and suitable punishments imposed. Some way has to be worked out so that the innocent are not losers. -- тσиу
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British Families in Goa
Hi I am one of the British who bought property in Goa after visiting for years,please sign our petition to the British Government and help us.If we loose our home in Goa we loose all our savings and pension fund. Thank you From all the British who have bought Karen Cornel DaCosta: Goa Land Purchases by Foreigners 25 Jun: From GoaNet Highlights by Cornel DaCosta. Readers will be familiar with the difficulties faced by British families who have, in good faith and following proper procedures, legitimately bought homes in Goa. They currently seem to be hounded out of such properties by methods I consider devious and unethical. While many of us live comfortably in homes we purchased in the UK, the plight of many Brits in Goa is very sad and uncertain. Consequently, they have now petitioned PM Brown to resolve the impasse in which properties purchased by foreign nationals were not being registered. To read about this click here. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Goa/Goan-properties-UK-citizens-petition-Brown/articleshow/4689436.cms There is an element of urgency to this petition as it will help all British citizens, of Goan origin or not who may find themselves in an identical situation regarding purchased properties in Goa. To stand up and be counted, go, before 17th July 2009, to http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/goahomes
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
Folks, It is heartening that there has been interest shown on GoaNet regarding the treatment of British families in Goa even though everyone has missed the point: The Goa Government intends to introduce a law to make legitimate past purchases unlawful! MP Shantaram Naik says that he has submitted a notice of a private member's bill to amend Article 371 of the Constitution to empower the state legislature to enact a law to regulate the purchase of land by foreigners - see: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Goa/Britons-buying-land-in-Goa-should-abi de-by-law-MP/articleshow/4698993.cms Does the intention to present a private member's bill have the force of law? If such a law is successful, can it be applied retrospectively? The Goa government has threatened hundreds of British families with property confiscation and fines. These cover a wide spectrum of circumstances and it is difficult to generalise but my understanding is that in most cases property deeds had been issued and the Goa Government has registered them but the Dept. of Enforcement (an Orwellian ring!) has been investigating the cases for over two years leading to panic among the expats. It is my contention that once the sale deeds have been granted and registered, retrospective action is reprehensible. The BBC has done a programme entitled Threat to Expat Homes in Goa. You can read a synopsis of the programme by going to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7507766.stm or read the full transcript at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/facethefacts/transcript_2008_18_goa.shtml It is my belief that the next in the firing line will be foreign nationals of Indian origin who own property by purchase or bequest. Already we have seen a shift in the definition of a NRI from a person of Indian origin to a person who is an Indian citizen and resident abroad. Eddie Fernandes
[Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
J. Colaco said: I have been reading these posts about these innocents and how, onthe other hand, East African Goans were able to buy houses etc in theUK. - Well, Hi All, East African Goans have British Passports. Their Grandfathers had BP. If the British can give up their British Passport and take Indian citizenship, they too can buy land in Goa, or any where else in India. Caitan.
[Goanet] Treatment of British Families in Goa
I agree wholeheartedly with Tony de Sa's comments.Where property has been acquired illegally, by all means, let the culprits - be they politicians, lawyers or whoever, face the rigors of the law. Some Brits may well have been gullible and trusted their host advisers. If, however, they have gone through reputable and registered lawyers and Estate Agents, then I feel the onus of responsibility should lie on the shoulders of the latter. I do not in any way wish to appear to be siding with the Brits, but I think there is such a thing as trust and fair play. Mervyn Maciel --
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
While I agree with Cajetan that the East African Goans who bought property in the UK were UK nationals (some albeit overseas UK passport holders)- this, I submit is not an area of equivalence. The UK citizens have not bought primary residencies in Goa, they have invested in 'winter' holiday homes. Unless these individuals are involved in unauthorised business or doing illegal stuff AND have not helped the concretisation of Goan green-lands - I think it is rather silly and petty minded to block such purchases for the future. It is also grossly unjust to confiscate land legally bought by others.unless one is living in Comrade country. Eddie Fernandes asked two questions: The answers are as follows. A private member's bill if voted upon and passed by Parliament - becomes law, and Laws in democratic countries are not retroactive. BTW: never mind the spiel in the bill What is important is WHAT the law actually states. jc J. Colaco said: I have been reading these posts about these innocents and how, onthe other hand, East African Goans were able to buy houses etc in theUK. 2009/6/26 Cajetan Alvares cajul...@googlemail.com: Well, Hi All, East African Goans have British Passports. Their Grandfathers had BP. If the British can give up their British Passport and take Indian citizenship, they too can buy land in Goa, or any where else in India.
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
Hi Eddie First you state everyone has missed the point. Then you write The Goa Government intends to introduce a law to make legitimate past purchases unlawful!. Can you please point to the Times of India article where that is stated? I fail to see where it stated LEGITIMATE past deals will be made unlawful. Can you also point to the where it states the GOA GOVERNMENT intends to introduce a law George --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Eddie Fernandes ed...@fernandes.u-net.com wrote: Folks, It is heartening that there has been interest shown on GoaNet regarding the treatment of British families in Goa even though everyone has missed the point: The Goa Government intends to introduce a law to make legitimate past purchases unlawful! MP Shantaram Naik says that he has submitted a notice of a private member's bill to amend Article 371 of the Constitution to empower the state legislature to enact a law to regulate the purchase of land by foreigners - see: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Goa/Britons-buying-land-in-Goa-should-abide-by-law-MP/articleshow/4698993.cms
[Goanet] Treatment of British Families in Goa
As a Goan, I was ashamed to read of the plight of innocent British families who, havingfollowed the proper procedures and legitimately bought property in Goa, now find themselves being hounded by the authorities, and risk losing these properties . I hope their Petition to Prime Minister Gordon Brown will receive the support it deserves. It is disgraceful to find that while we, Goans, who emigrated to Britain from East Africa, India/Pakistan or elsewhere, were, on the whole, made welcome, the same courtesies cannot be extended to these unfortunate Britons. -- Mervyn Maciel
[Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
Those British families who have chosen to retire in Goa, either build new homes or buy old homes for renovation, and generally improve the neighborhood. I have seen many formerly dilapidated homes being taken over, renovated, and beautiful gardens planted and flower boxes or pots placed. The problem in my opinion,is that they have been very gullible, and have in many case been taken advantage of, by un-scrupulous professionals (real estate agents, builders and lawyers) who have cut corners and pulled the wool over their eyes to complete deals which do not meet the test of law. Being unfamiliar with local laws they have implicitly trusted these professionals and are now finding themselves in a stew. I hope the Government gets to the bottom of this problem and place the blame where it truly lies. But will they or will the foreigners be the scapegoats ?
[Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
I have been reading these posts about these innocents and how, on the other hand, East African Goans were able to buy houses etc in the UK. There is no doubt that many of these individuals have positively developed the - about to collapse - houses. Many immigrants have done the same in the UK and USA. They have invested and rejuvenated properties. I suggest, however, that - IF the land i.e. property title has NOT been cleanly (legally) transferred, No Govt can assist in making the new occupants the real owners. This cannot happen in the UK nor in most parts of the world. Some of us may remember the phrase I have a bridge to sell. There is NO excuse for ignorance of the law. Furthermore, the law of transfer of title (Need for Clear title) is the same, I believe in the UK as it is in Goa. If the problem is some technicality e.g. lack of Panchayat approval (read bakshish) was not obtained, the Government should definitely step in and assist. In fact, I believe that responsible Goans should petition the Government on this. After all, if it is helping to preserve Goan houses and architecture, ALL Goans should help. If the problem ONLY is that these UK individuals have been duped by unscrupulous 'agents', that is not a Governmental problem. That is a private matter. The avenue open (and it might take a lifetime to sort out) is to Sue these agents. jc == 2009/6/25 Vivian A. DSouza socorro...@yahoo.com Those British families who have chosen to retire in Goa, either build new homes or buy old homes for renovation, and generally improve the neighborhood. I have seen many formerly dilapidated homes being taken over, renovated, and beautiful gardens planted and flower boxes or pots placed. The problem in my opinion,is that they have been very gullible, and have in many case been taken advantage of, by un-scrupulous professionals (real estate agents, builders and lawyers) who have cut corners and pulled the wool over their eyes to complete deals which do not meet the test of law. Being unfamiliar with local laws they have implicitly trusted these professionals and are now finding themselves in a stew. I hope the Government gets to the bottom of this problem and place the blame where it truly lies. But will they or will the foreigners be the scapegoats ?
Re: [Goanet] Treatment of British families in Goa
Yes, some Goan agents are unscrupulous but I have learnt some (many?) of the UK buyers were aware of the residency requirements and rules but took their chances with paying off (bribes) as necessary. Now they are crying foul. Additionally, ignorance of the law is no excuse. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Vivian A. DSouza socorro...@yahoo.com wrote: Those British families who have chosen to retire in Goa, either build new homes or buy old homes for renovation, and generally improve the neighborhood. I have seen many formerly dilapidated homes being taken over, renovated, and beautiful gardens planted and flower boxes or pots placed. The problem in my opinion,is that they have been very gullible, and have in many case been taken advantage of, by un-scrupulous professionals (real estate agents, builders and lawyers) who have cut corners and pulled the wool over their eyes to complete deals which do not meet the test of law. Being unfamiliar with local laws they have implicitly trusted these professionals and are now finding themselves in a stew. I hope the Government gets to the bottom of this problem and place the blame where it truly lies. But will they or will the foreigners be the scapegoats ?
