Re: [Goanet] 25th June 1975, Imposition of Emergency - India's Most Infamous Day
Seriously Naguesht, Marshall is not absolving the Old Dame, he is pointing to a legal technicality. Ask him how it is that he says "It is incorrect to say that Indira Gandhi violated the constitution." So go for this point. He will either respond well or fall on his face. This is another way to approach things. Its as simple as that. And we must not forget the Supreme Court and what it did in upholding the Emergency and allowing for the layering, infusion and application of draconian powers. It is true in all probability that Indira Gandhi was not being pressured by the West to relinquish power. The scholars would have been on this by now if she was being--but we shall see. But she did it for her own political reasons--in my opinion they (as in she--Congress) were willing to sit it out. People got to ridicule / many still scoff, but in the end does it matter to the Congress. Indian politicians do not like to be ridiculed but are also learning to work with that figurative reality. But at that point, it was a good way out for them. Give these things a thought. This is high strategy that we only occasionally see these days. I do not respect it at all, but who am I to say that. This does not absolve her at all in my reading. An analogy with business, no matter which political party the MEA bureaucracy at South Block is doing rather well and making sure that India will keep shining as they see fit. And at the end of the day, things are run by a whole other bunch of ghosts. venantius From: Naguesh Bhatcar Marshall, How can you absolve Indira Gandhi?Whatever your take on this, ultimately it was Indira Gandhi the Prime Minister, who was responsiblefor whatever that took place during the emergency --sterilisations or whatever else, that werethe excesses of the emergency era. If you now want to say that only Sanjay Gandhi was the troublemaker,he was then being hailed as the hero and Indira Gandhi never pulled him up.
Re: [Goanet] 25th June 1975, Imposition of Emergency - India's Most Infamous Day
Marshall, How can you absolve Indira Gandhi?Whatever your take on this, ultimately it was Indira Gandhi the Prime Minister, who was responsiblefor whatever that took place during the emergency --sterilisations or whatever else, that werethe excesses of the emergency era. If you now want to say that only Sanjay Gandhi was the troublemaker,he was then being hailed as the hero and Indira Gandhi never pulled him up. Also, if you remember, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court A.N.Ray, was appointed by Indira Gandhi, bypassingthe top 3 - Hegde, Shelat and Grover. Indira Gandhi had tried every which way to bypass the Constitution. Whywould she not get favourable ruling? The emergency was not for a month or two, but 21 months of hell. Also, you seem to have sidetracked the issue of Operation Blue Star, which I had mentioned in my previousresponse to your original posting. The Congress Party is yet to apologize to the Sikh families that were impactedby the killings, during the 1984 riots. Naguesh Bhatcar sgbhat...@hotmail.com > Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:52:48 +0530 > From: mmendonz...@gmail.com > To: goanet@lists.goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet] 25th June 1975, Imposition of Emergency - India's Most > Infamous Day > > Naguesh Bhatcar: > Indira Gandhi was left with no choice. She had violated the constitution to > stay in power and was under pressure from the entire world. > > Response: > It is incorrect to say that Indira Gandhi violated the constitution. In fact > the Supreme Court upheld the imposition of emergency. > There are instances all over the world where dictators after usurping > absolute power have refused to let go. Indira Gandhi, to the best of my > knowledge, was under no pressure or compulsion from foreign sources although > her actions met with general disapproval from the democratic world. It was > basically internal compulsions caused by excesses like mass sterialisation, > demolition of houses, stifling of dissent, imprisonment of those opposed to > her, curbs on freedom of speech etc. which forced her to hold elections. I > do agree with you that it was a good thing that she, Sanjay Gandhi as well > as the Congress Party lost the elections. It brought them back down to earth > and realise the power of the people. > > Naguesh Bhatcar: > And please remember that Sonia and Maneka Gandhi were then the dear > daughters-in-law ofIndira Gandhi! > > Respomse: > Regarding Sonia and Maneka, it is common knowledge that Sonia was never into > politics at that time. However, Maneka was very active and edited a magazine > called Surya which ran articles and stories which would make many an > opposition leaders's ears burn. Maneka fully supported her husband Sanjay > Gandhi in all his activities. Rather than Indira, it was Sanjay Gandhi who > was more hated by the people for his brash ways. Today Maneka and Varun are > leading lights of the BJP. Varun even evoked admiration and applause for his > hate speech in Pilibhit from the sangh parivar. That it backfired in > retrospection, is another matter. > > Regards, > > Marshall
Re: [Goanet] 25th June 1975, Imposition of Emergency - India's Most Infamous Day
I am amused at the following statement: > Inspite of the emergency, one must give credit to Indira Gandhi that she did > revoke the emergency when she found out that it was extremely unpopular. She > did hold elections in a democratic and free manner and accepted the results > of her defeat with grace. Indira Gandhi was left with no choice. She had violated the constitution to stay in powerand was under pressure from the entire world. She definitely deserved to lose. If you bring Babri Masjid into the picture, what about Operation Blue Star in June 1984?Indira Gandhi created Sant Jairnail Singh Bhindranwale, to counter the Akali Dal and whenhe got too hot handle, she decided to get rid of him. Operation Blue Star ultimately led toher assassination by her bodyguards, which in turn led to the slaughtering of so many innocent Sikhs, who are still fighting to get justice. And please remember that Sonia and Maneka Gandhi were then the dear daughters-in-law ofIndira Gandhi! Naguesh Bhatcar sgbhat...@hotmail.com > Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:45:32 +0530 > From: mmendonz...@gmail.com > To: goanet@lists.goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet] 25th June 1975, Imposition of Emergency - India's Most > Infamous Day > > Vinay Natekar: > > 34 Years Back on this day the 25th June 1975 was the blackest day in > Post Independence India when Indira Gandhi who heading the dynastic > Congress Party imposed an ‘Internal Emergency’ in India to suppress her > opponents and not due to internal security of the country. > > Response: > > I agree that 25th June, 1975 was certainly one of the blackest days in free > India. But then so was 6th December, 1992 the day the Babri Masjid was > razed to the ground and caused a major schism between the two major > communities besides bloodshed and an era of violence which continues to this > day. 28th Feb 2002 would also qualify as yet another black day when a > genocide of muslims was unleashed by communal forces. 23rd August 2008 would > also qualify as another black day when violence was unleashed on helpless > Christians in Orissa by communal forces. > > > > Incidentally isn’t it ironic that Maneka Gandhi and Varun Gandhi the wife > and son of the villain of the emergency, Sanjay Gandhi, are now proud > members and leading lights of the BJP. Yet another, Jagmohan , who > steamrolled houses in Delhi in the name of beautification and committed > other excesses was a Cabinet member in the BJP government. > > > > Inspite of the emergency, one must give credit to Indira Gandhi that she did > revoke the emergency when she found out that it was extremely unpopular. She > did hold elections in a democratic and free manner and accepted the results > of her defeat with grace. > > > > Regards, > > > > Marshall
