Re: [Goanet] Old-style measurements... paileo, kudov, khandi
How much is a PAILI ? 4 PODDs = 1 PAILI. Ms Adriana Fernandes adferns21 at rediffmail.com
Re: [Goanet] Old-style measurements... paileo, kudov, khandi
For you Rico, Greetings. This is of one of my findings. The podd measures 1.024 litres according to the methods I have used. It can be used to measure rice, solam, salt, dry fish prawns. Now, if it is plain water, it could be taken as 1 kg. Rice works out to be roughly 0.75 kg. So also the weight of other items will vary. I once checked out with the Legal Metrology officials so they could move to leagalise it, but it found no favour with them. There are also more measures; smaller ones like ginnati, onnati, etc which are fractions of podd and monn which is a multiple of podd. One good source of info and pictures is the dean's palace in Quepem town. Francis fraxavborg at gmail.com On 10/25/13, Frederick FN Noronha फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا wrote: Recently, I came across a reference to a *khandi,* and was quite puzzled. There are hardly any references online to this old style of calculating paddy yields, field sizes and seed-inputs required for cultivation.
Re: [Goanet] : Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi?
Dear Sebastian, Thanks for clarifications. Moi-mogan, Domnic FernandesMob: 8805237604 I think Domnicbab has mistakenly interchanged the order of gin'nattem and an'nattem in the sequence of measures. On consulting Dalgado I find: Girnatti = one-eighth part of Podd. (This is repeated by Kresens Monter.) Odnatti = half Natti or one-fourth part of Podd. Natti is not given; nor is Solgem. But Dessai gives Solgem as ordi Podd. Hence, Solgem and Dalgado's Natti are synonymous. Dalgado gives Muddi as a package of rice in hay, but does not mention the measure of its contents. He also gives Muddo as a large Muddi. I too have no knowledge of Muddi being used as a measure. But Dessai gives Muddi as bara pailio tandllanchi tonnan bandil'li pottli; and Muddo as solla pailianchi Muddi, and this last is traced to the year 1290. Hope this helps. Sebastian Borges
Re: [Goanet] : Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi?
I think Domnicbab has mistakenly interchanged the order of gin'nattem and an'nattem in the sequence of measures. On consulting Dalgado I find: Girnatti = one-eighth part of Podd. (This is repeated by Kresens Monter.) Odnatti = half Natti or one-fourth part of Podd. Natti is not given; nor is Solgem. But Dessai gives Solgem as ordi Podd. Hence, Solgem and Dalgado's Natti are synonymous. Dalgado gives Muddi as a package of rice in hay, but does not mention the measure of its contents. He also gives Muddo as a large Muddi. I too have no knowledge of Muddi being used as a measure. But Dessai gives Muddi as bara pailio tandllanchi tonnan bandil'li pottli; and Muddo as solla pailianchi Muddi, and this last is traced to the year 1290. Hope this helps. Sebastian Borges On 27 Oct 2013 Domnic Fernandes domval...@hotmail.com wrote: Gui'natti/gui'natem X 4, equals 1 anna'tti (ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili You guys have missed out one of the measures SOLGEM, and I think the first two measures are interchanged. So, the above should read as follows: 2 (two) An?natteo equals 1 (one) gin?natti 2 (two) gin?natteo equals 1 (one) solgem2 (two) solgim equals 1 (one) podd4 (four) poddi equals 1 paili . There is also another measure called MUDDI (a bale) which usually contained 4 kuddov. Rice was packed in muddieo pretty much like bales of khajur i.e., it was filled in woven baskets using dry leaves on sides to avoid pilferage and then wrapped around with dry hay and secured tightly with sumb (coir cope). The package was widely used as a gift at weddings and other functions. People also packed and stored rice in muddieo. There were two types of paileo ? one with metal bar fixed in line with its top, which was fitted to a metal ring around top of paili; it was called filsanvachi paili and the other without. Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use. In Bardez we say: katrun map. People used a round of piece of bamboo to level the contents but most preferred to use a piece of round metal pipe, which was already available at a chul (fire place) to blow fire. Moi-mogan, Domnic FernandesAnjuna, Goa ... Sebastian Borges
Re: [Goanet] : Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Prossor Bostaum Bab: Moi Mogan ani Man'nan Tumcho nomam kortam. Thanks for the emendations. That's precisely the help I requested for in compiling the list of our nearly-erstwhile weights measures. I have been away from Goa since 1968. That -- long absence -- plus mymounting ailments, along with related medications, I believe, has resulted in a substantial amnesiac-syndrome. Hence, You willing, let's make a little effort present this list as perfectly calibrated as we can. Towards this purpose, I wish to invite you, Victor Hugo, Augusto a fewother cognoscenti, to join me for a lunch, in Loutulim, come December at a date mutually suitable for the bunch. OK? It will, indeed, be a great pleasure we will have contributed somethingusefull to Goan-way-of-life in transition: Our, hardly insignificant, contributionto our posterity. Yours sincerely,Chacha Alfred. Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 00:29:38 -0700 From: s_m_bor...@yahoo.com To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: Re: [Goanet] : Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi Re: [Goanet] Subject: Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have different meanings in different villages? In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem. Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov. Kuddov x 20 = 1 khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio! In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms are interchanged. Chacha may please clarify. Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use. Sebastian Borges On 26 Oct 2013 Alfred de Tavares alfredtava...@hotmail.com wrote: Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in these weights measures of millenia past. Soon our neonati generations will not know about this paraphernalia, essential to our goneby existence..., good God forbid, such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils, slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards, sharpenersPAPER may be heading towards oblivion. Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to sayhow very apocalyptic... Thus a record of pre-kilogram-littre measures, inalianable necessities of every-minute life, sketchily recorded. We had: Gui'natti/gui'natem X 4, equals 1 anna'tti (ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili 4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1 vod'lo/dedd mond. All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien) ie heaped/peaked-up. Then going higher: 20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1 kumbh. These were almost always measured kortad; but could on occasion, depending on the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare) could be asked for in sui form. The proportion to ammount of seed to a field depend on type of field/cultivation: Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides; khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up (dyked, Dutch-style fields. Khazans in turn have two types of planting: pausav/vaingon is the rainy season crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs which were filled up and used as sources of irrigation during dry season. These, again man'made water storages turn out rich yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and in flow of thei waters are regulated with admirably efficient sluice-gates. in our times their cash yields have crossed into crores at annual village comunidade auctions. There is much detail to be filled up, which I intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia, unless they already have it. What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to various fields/crops. Will do so in December. I use to help my Pai a good deal during the mirg/cultivation times, before going on to boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc. I promise also detailed list of the fluid-measurs: Xer, pau, so on. the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis, winowing. I invite all informed friends to please fill in as details of yester-things tickle you minds. OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an enviable collection of all these implements. A reminiscent Chacha... - Sebastian Borges
Re: [Goanet] Old-style measurements... paileo, kudov, khandi (bmviega...@yahoo.com)
Where is the picture of khandi ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk27/4746475517 http://goabooks.wordpress.com
Re: [Goanet] : Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi
Re: [Goanet] Subject: Old-style measurements... paileo,kudov, khandi Has chacha made a mistake or do some terms have different meanings in different villages? In my village (Velim) gin'nattem x2 = 1 an'nattem. Paili x 2 = 1 kuddov. Kuddov x 20 = 1 khanddi. Khanddi x 20 = 1 kumbh. Hence, 1 kumbh = 800 pailio. But by Chacha's reckoning 1 kumbh = 1600 pailio! In my village the monsoon or 'Pavsalli' crop is called Sorodd and the dry season (irrigated) crop is Vaingonn; Chacha's terms are interchanged. Chacha may please clarify. Kortad is, of course, the Portuguese translation of the Konkani 'katorn' that we use. Sebastian Borges On 26 Oct 2013 Alfred de Tavares alfredtava...@hotmail.com wrote: Good... you guys are edifying our posterity in these weights measures of millenia past. Soon our neonati generations will not know about this paraphernalia, essential to our goneby existence..., good God forbid, such daily-requisite materials viz. pencils, slates, erasers, chalks, blackboards, sharpenersPAPER may be heading towards oblivion. Ousch...as our Viviana, in Cal, is bound to sayhow very apocalyptic... Thus a record of pre-kilogram-littre measures, inalianable necessities of every-minute life, sketchily recorded. We had: Gui'natti/gui'natem X 4, equals 1 anna'tti (ten) X 4, equals 1 podd' x 4, equals i paili 4 pailis equal 1 mond(h); 5 paillis equal 1 vod'lo/dedd mond. All these measures could be asked for 'cortad' ie levelled with a stave or ?sui (suien) ie heaped/peaked-up. Then going higher: 20 monds equaled 1 Khandi and 20 khandis equaled 1 kumbh. These were almost always measured kortad; but could on occasion, depending on the avarice/cruelty pf the batkar (very rare) could be asked for in sui form. The proportion to ammount of seed to a field depend on type of field/cultivation: Thus, morod/terraceed fields on hillsides; khazan/low-lying, sub-river-level filled up (dyked, Dutch-style fields. Khazans in turn have two types of planting: pausav/vaingon is the rainy season crop and sorod is the dry season crop irrigated by respective village toyems/ponds/resevoirs which were filled up and used as sources of irrigation during dry season. These, again man'made water storages turn out rich yields of tastiest fish and the daily out and in flow of thei waters are regulated with admirably efficient sluice-gates. in our times their cash yields have crossed into crores at annual village comunidade auctions. There is much detail to be filled up, which I intend to do. I have just outlined the bare sketch What say Rico, JC. Sholud I turn in ove to Wikipedia, unless they already have it. What, for ex I have not proportions of seed to various fields/crops. Will do so in December. I use to help my Pai a good deal during the mirg/cultivation times, before going on to boarding school (LHS), colleged, etc. I promise also detailed list of the fluid-measurs: Xer, pau, so on. the zot'ta, the plouging, the mownis, winowing. I invite all informed friends to please fill in as details of yester-things tickle you minds. OBS: Victor Hugo's incomparable CHITRA has an enviable collection of all these implements. A reminiscent Chacha... - Sebastian Borges
Re: [Goanet] Old-style measurements... paileo, kudov, khandi
I recall sacks on three bullock-carts. They filled a structure that was known as a 'gottho,' which was rebuilt as a guest residence, this year. Trippers welcome. Eric. 90 khandis, by my friend's count, would be 9000 kgs (at 90-100 kgs per khandi). Is he wrong? Or a mixup here? FN
Re: [Goanet] Old-style measurements... paileo, kudov, khandi
90 khandis, by my friend's count, would be 9000 kgs (at 90-100 kgs per khandi). Is he wrong? Or a mixup here? FN On 26 October 2013 00:37, eric pinto ericpin...@yahoo.com wrote: Ninty khandis of paddy were delivered from Mayem every winter, to become free picking for a hundred and fifty odd chickens. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ FN P+91-832-2409490 M+91-9822122436.. _/ _/ New from Goa,1556 [http://bit.ly/Goa1556Books2 ]... _/ _/ http://bit.ly/TGIU-cover | The General Is Up _/ _/ http://bit.ly/gfai-cover | Goa Found Imagined._/ _/ http://bit.ly/MR-cover | Mirrored Reflections(poetry). _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Re: [Goanet] Old-style measurements... paileo, kudov, khandi
Dear Fredrick, There is also concept of Man which is approximately 15 kg for dehusked Arecanut. I came across all these concepts often while talking to farmers. I would also request you to spread a word about Paddy farming through SRI method. Regards, Sachin tendulkar1970 at gmail.com Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from !DEA -Original Message- From: Frederick FN Noronha Subject: Old-style measurements... paileo, kudov, khandi Recently, I came across a reference to a *khandi,* and was quite puzzled. There are hardly any references online to this old style of calculating paddy yields, field sizes and seed-inputs required for cultivation.
Re: [Goanet] Old-style measurements... paileo, kudov, khandi
If I am not wrong there is a similar system in Punjab. But on a larger scale. I heard them talk about this three weeks ago in Chandigarh W Sent from my iPad Wendell Rodricks, Campal, Panjim. GOA 403001. INDIA Off tel: +91-832-2420604, Shop tel: +91-832-2238177 Off email: rns.wend...@gmail.com On 25-Oct-2013, at 12:22 AM, Frederick FN Noronha wrote: Recently, I came across a reference to a *khandi,* and was quite puzzled. There are hardly any references online to this old style of calculating paddy yields, field sizes and seed-inputs required for cultivation. A friend (who knows his farming) share with me the following details. Would really appreciate your inputs:
Re: [Goanet] Old-style measurements... paileo, kudov, khandi
Pileo. In Cuncolim, Salcete area around 1960 I was a farmhand and we called Paileo. P. Soprey sopreyp at yahoo.com On Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:01 PM, Frederick FN Noronha wrote: Recently, I came across a reference to a *khandi,* and was quite puzzled. There are hardly any references online to this old style of calculating paddy yields, field sizes and seed-inputs required for cultivation. A friend (who knows his farming) share with me the following details. Would really appreciate your inputs:
