Re: [Goanet] Portuguese Passport - its implications
As far as I know, at least in the UK and in Australia, it is not easy to get on the dole. You need to be genuinely (and be able to prove) unable to work to get on the dole. I have heard of a number of people who have somehow managed to by-pass these requirements, but it does not mean that any citizen can get the dole for the asking. PS In Australia, I cannot get on the dole if I lose my job and my wife is working - yet we pay our own separate Income Tax (not joint). Funny world we live in. From: J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Cc: goanet goa...@goanet.org Sent: Wednesday, 11 December 2013 6:52 AM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Portuguese Passport - its implications On 10 December 2013 09:32, Antonio Menezes ac.mene...@gmail.com wrote: 'Unemployed Portuguese passport holders in Goa could then claim unemployment doles and benefits of other Portuguese financial schemes in metropolitan Portugal. Since Portuguese accept the responsibility for these Goans , they may be forced to pay unemployment doles to concerned Goans in Goa. This may lead to thousand others to apply for the Portuguese passports with the sole intention to claim unemployment doles paid by the Portuguese taxpayer . Will Portugal be in a position to accept fresh demands for doles which may put the Portuguese economy at a grave risk ? COMMENT: There are many reasons why Goans apply to obtain or reaffirm their Portuguese nationality. One of the reasons is that It is their right. As far as unemployment benefits are concerned, there are guidelines which have to be met. One of them is that applicants must have made the necessary contibutions (pagamentos) to national insurance (Segurança Social). There are some inter-EU conditions and arrangements for RESIDENT TAXPAYERS of the EU nations who have changed residence from one to another EU country. If any Goan or other Portuguese national has made the requisite contribution into the fund, I do not understand the barulheira wrt those contributors receiving benefit-payments. Politicians make two types of 'vote-calculations'. (1) Lefties increase unemployment benefits to those who support them electorally (2) All give out some non-contributory benefits to the indigent and aged. But, the funds must come from somewhere i.e. Contribution + Taxation/Borrowing. Judging by the semi-disciplined approach taken by Portugal at this moment, I cannot see Portuguese Goans resident in Goa being able to collect dole just by virtue of being Portuguese citizens. If there is a loophole ...I am sure that it will be closedlike the UK is likely to do wrt Easter European folks who are 'spinning' the system. jc
Re: [Goanet] Portuguese Passport - its implications
On 10 December 2013 09:32, Antonio Menezes ac.mene...@gmail.com wrote: 'Unemployed Portuguese passport holders in Goa could then claim unemployment doles and benefits of other Portuguese financial schemes in metropolitan Portugal. Since Portuguese accept the responsibility for these Goans , they may be forced to pay unemployment doles to concerned Goans in Goa. This may lead to thousand others to apply for the Portuguese passports with the sole intention to claim unemployment doles paid by the Portuguese taxpayer . Will Portugal be in a position to accept fresh demands for doles which may put the Portuguese economy at a grave risk ? COMMENT: There are many reasons why Goans apply to obtain or reaffirm their Portuguese nationality. One of the reasons is that It is their right. As far as unemployment benefits are concerned, there are guidelines which have to be met. One of them is that applicants must have made the necessary contibutions (pagamentos) to national insurance (Segurança Social). There are some inter-EU conditions and arrangements for RESIDENT TAXPAYERS of the EU nations who have changed residence from one to another EU country. If any Goan or other Portuguese national has made the requisite contribution into the fund, I do not understand the barulheira wrt those contributors receiving benefit-payments. Politicians make two types of 'vote-calculations'. (1) Lefties increase unemployment benefits to those who support them electorally (2) All give out some non-contributory benefits to the indigent and aged. But, the funds must come from somewhere i.e. Contribution + Taxation/Borrowing. Judging by the semi-disciplined approach taken by Portugal at this moment, I cannot see Portuguese Goans resident in Goa being able to collect dole just by virtue of being Portuguese citizens. If there is a loophole ...I am sure that it will be closedlike the UK is likely to do wrt Easter European folks who are 'spinning' the system. jc
Re: [Goanet] portuguese passport
FATHER's false surname of Ullah, you are also au fait about my father, that is all there is to say, really (on this forum). I have NO IDEA about your name, other than your first middle last name is possibly derived from Portuguese as we are on a Goan forum, it could be Galician / Spanish too I guess your family name is originally Portuguese, (perhaps a conversion if you are 100% Goan / PIO etc), I dont know, but I hazard a guess your surname could have been de Dias also, etc etc... None of my business either. Regards John Monteiro Paulo Colaco Dias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (TRUNCATED) John Monteiro, let me tell you that your comparison is most absurd. You are comparing the process of recouping or acquiring Portuguese citizenship with the process of getting a British passport. That comparison does not make sense and it is ridiculous. It is Portuguese Citizenship that takes time to get. Not a Portuguese passport because you can get that in less than 24 hours.I have often corrected Goans in this respect. You should not say you are getting a Portuguese passport. The right term is getting Portuguese Citizenship which is a completely different process. In order to get a Portuguese passport, you need to be a Portuguese citizen first. Just like in order to get a British passport you need to be a British citizen first. Clear now?... I do hope so. BTW, is your name really John on your birth certificate or Joao? :-) I am just surprised that your father being so Portuguese gave you the name of John instead of Joao..Paulo Colaco Dias -- -Original Message- Subject: Re: [Goanet] portuguese passport Its always nice to hear of something positive, and thank you for that, shows that perseverance patience pays off in the end. Well done congratulations to you. Two years does seem an awful long time when you consider in the UK three weeks for a passport is 'a lifetime's wait' for the majority who want to use it only to go on holidays to Costa del Fish Chips. Patience on your part, correct documentation etc have at last paid off for you. John Monteiro Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] portuguese passport
Its always nice to hear of something positive, and thank you for that, shows that perseverance patience pays off in the end. Well done congratulations to you. Two years does seem an awful long time when you consider in the UK three weeks for a passport is 'a lifetime's wait' for the majority who want to use it only to go on holidays to Costa del Fish Chips. Patience on your part, correct documentation etc have at last paid off for you. And the good advice you give about any old documents is a valid point, anything that has an official date stamp, and is a formal document would go a long way to help prove any Goan's case as well as limiting the time window, down to 2 years in your case. Goodness only knows how long some other applicants have waited, or not got any further than the initial application. John Monteiro . M S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have got my papers processed thru the Goa Consulate within 2 years I think if you have an old document which the consulate is asking to curb fraud from indians your process will be quick. rergards, Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] portuguese passport
John Monteiro, let me tell you that your comparison is most absurd. You are comparing the process of recouping or acquiring Portuguese citizenship with the process of getting a British passport. That comparison does not make sense and it is ridiculous. You can actually get a Portuguese passport on the same day of application if you are already a Portuguese citizen and if you apply in Portugal. It is Portuguese Citizenship that takes time to get. Not a Portuguese passport because you can get that in less than 24 hours for 90 euros if you apply in Portugal. I have often corrected Goans in this respect. You should not say you are getting a Portuguese passport. The right term is getting Portuguese Citizenship which is a completely different process. In order to get a Portuguese passport, you need to be a Portuguese citizen first. Just like in order to get a British passport you need to be a British citizen first. Clear now? I do hope so. It takes time because it is not a simple process. Your birth registration needs to be transcribed to the Portuguese Civil Birth Registration Office. Often there are spelling mistakes in names from Indian registry offices, people change names on their Indian passports, parents' names are written in different ways, with different spellings, sometimes the dates are not the same from one document to the other, etc. This is just to say that a small difference in names or dates amongst documents belonging to the same person can be taken as suspicious or forgery. Example: Suppose your Indian passport has a different name than what it is actually written on your birth certificate. Or maybe less names or even different spellings of your names. This is extremely common in Indian documents (indian certificates, indian passports, etc). In India people change names very easily or omit names or even change their names to the English version (change Joao to John, Alberto to Albert, Vicente to Vincent, Miguel to Minguel, etc I could give you thousands of examples). BTW, is your name really John on your birth certificate or Joao? :-) I am just surprised that your father being so Portuguese gave you the name of John instead of Joao. So the two years referred by M S [EMAIL PROTECTED] was the period required to process his papers to get Portuguese citizenship. 2 years is good. Maybe this person's case was straightforward and there were no errors in names, dates, etc. If a case presents different names or mistakes in dates, etc, the Portuguese authorities become suspicious and the applicants are then requested to do affidavits which take time and effort from all parties involved. This is the reason why the process takes long. Many legitimate cases have problems with names and dates in the documents presented. A big problem because the Portuguese are extremely strict with names and dates. If there are differences, your process will be delayed until you explain the differences and fix the problem by issuing affidavits or sworn written declarations. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JOHN MONTEIRO Sent: 01 August 2008 11:28 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: Re: [Goanet] portuguese passport Its always nice to hear of something positive, and thank you for that, shows that perseverance patience pays off in the end. Well done congratulations to you. Two years does seem an awful long time when you consider in the UK three weeks for a passport is 'a lifetime's wait' for the majority who want to use it only to go on holidays to Costa del Fish Chips. Patience on your part, correct documentation etc have at last paid off for you. John Monteiro No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 01/08/2008 06:39
Re: [Goanet] portuguese passport
Not just the Indian registries but also, many priests in Bombay / Mumbai hacked (better still dismembered) off the names of individuals when they came to Bombay to get married. I guess it had something to do with their modern proclivities, education and bringing order. So, a Maria Otilia Jovita Edwige became Maria Otilia (surname of husband). The problem very few rose up in arms, or barely protested. Of those who did were put in their place, or promptly kissed the ring. Otilia is my mother and I have shortened her name here but one gets the idea. Its hilarious but says a lot about finessed mediocrities. In most cases these were Goan priests — who are now hanging out with their maker. BTW, I genuinely appreciate priests and relate to their vicissitudes, but have no patience with thugs. BAMTE. Its not unlike priests blocking parents from naming a child, Jesus or Magdalene. Perhaps there were white papers floating from the Church hierarchy on how to unburden the faithful of the weight of those long names. I remember at a conversation last year in Mumbai -- someone mentioning the low success rate of Goans from Mumbai being admitted to Portuguese citizenship, but the fact that many others do have Portuguese citizenship -- who barely scraped a toenail in Goa. Asundi, zalem tem zalem. Konnui jinkle (tumchea devak argam favo) ani zaite -- zenkam khorench Portugalak vospachi ass asli te dusrea margar apli ghadi choloitat. venantius From: Paulo Colaco Dias [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Goanet] portuguese passport Example: Suppose your Indian passport has a different name than what it is actually written on your birth certificate. Or maybe less names or even different spellings of your names. This is extremely common in Indian documents (indian certificates, indian passports, etc). In India people change names very easily or omit names or even change their names to the English version (change Joao to John, Alberto to Albert, Vicente to Vincent, Miguel to Minguel, etc I could give you thousands of examples). BTW, is your name really John on your birth certificate or Joao? :-) I am just surprised that your father being so Portuguese gave you the name of John instead of Joao.
Re: [Goanet] : PORTUGUESE PASSPORT - again ?!
--- CONVENTION OF THE GOAN DIASPORA FROM GOA INTO THE WORLD Lisbon, Portugal June 15-17, 2007 Details at: http://www.goacom.org/casa-de-goa/noticias.html --- Bonefacio Lopes wrote on May 12, 3007 Could someone tell us what is happening to all those applications which have been gaining or rather embracing dust on Portuguese passport i am still waiting to hear on the application a friend had applied in 1995 , our memories are so weak If the media can come up with a solution and dig out what is happening to all those applications ,it's only you guys can now do something so please HELP HELP HELP HELP. == jc's response May 12, 2007 Ah! Bonefacio, It is possible that our memories are really weak. I am posting the correspondence of a Year+ ago when I offered (on GoaNet) to try assist you IF you provided the information needed to follow up these issues. I trust that the attached correspondence is self explanatory. You will recall that you did NOT provide the missing info. I'd repeat this to us Goans: Nothing will fall automatically in our laps. If we want something, we have to do the due diligence and go after it, sincerely jose = MORE that One Year Ago = On 29/03/06, jose colaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Bonefacio, Grateful if the missing info is provided: 1. Full Name as per application (should be identical to name on birth certificate) : == 2. Date application was handed over to Consulate in Goa; == 3. If application made in person or through agent (WHICH agent) (INFO MISSING) 4. If application made through agent, please verify yourself that the application was handed over. (INFO MISSING) 5. Process number == 6. On what basis the application was made i.e. (INFO MISSING) applicant Born in Goa pre-Dec 19, 1961 or Parents are Portuguese citizens. (what proof has been submitted) (INFO MISSING) 7. ADDITIONAL Date of Birth of applicant (INFO MISSING) Place of Birth of applicant (INFO MISSING) Father's full name (as on application) (INFO MISSING) Mother's full name(as on application) (INFO MISSING) Were Parents / Applicant in Portuguese East Africa or East Timor? (INFO MISSING) If so WHEN (INFO MISSING) 8. Have Parents officially rescinded Portuguese Nationality ? (INFO MISSING) 9. Has applicant officially rescinded Portuguese Nationality ? (INFO MISSING) 10. Has ANY response been given to applicant? (INFO MISSING) MESSAGE from a friend who offered to pay her own fare to Lisbon and help for free!!== Dear Jose, Dev Jivont zalo, Dev Jivon zaloknim,knim,knim... I will not approach the Registo Centrais (RC) before knowing his parents' names, (there could be (many XXX), place of birth and date of birth. The number indicated is the Consulate number so what I was going to find out is exactly the RC number. I know that in 1995, information was given that in the cases of atribuição, the documents had to be submitted at the consulates in the area of their residence. This gave rise to the Consulate accepting documents without the parents' transcrição being carried out. So, if I don't get the full information I refuse to give any help. Of all the points you raised, Bonefacio replied only to two. --- Goanet recommends, and is proud to be associated with, 'Domnic's Goa' - A nostalgic romp through a bygone era. This book is the perfect gift for any Goan, or anyone wanting to understand Goa. Distributed locally by Broadway, near Caculo Island, Panjim internationally by OtherIndiaBookStore.Com. For trade enquiries contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
