[google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
It's sad that Amazon does not support customers that exercise the right of free speech. But I'd also assume that Google would not stand up against the us government for offending the first amendment. :-( However, I will still donate to Wikileaks and I would suggest anyone else to do the same: http://wikileaks.org/support.html "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost." Thomas Jefferson "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington On Dec 4, 1:34 am, supercobra wrote: > Amazon and Google have been long-time partisans of freedom of speech. > > However in this case, the pressure coming from the government must be > incredible. Amazon is not the only victim of these intimidations. US > government employees have been forbidden to visit Wikileaks sites and > to discuss these matters on Facebook. At least one US university has > been 'persuaded' to ask their students not to reference any Wikileaks > documents in their research papers... (how is that for doing thorough > research!). > > Even crounties bend under US pressure. We have seen it to be the case > with Spain & Germany which dropped their lawsuits, investigations and > enforcement of arrest warrants for torture and kidnappings > (renditions) after the US pressured them (source Wikileaks cables). > > So I would assume that Google or any organization would probably comply as > well. > > To ensure free speech can not be prevented by taking down web sites, > we need to create a totally distributed website hosting technology > based on BitTorrent or something similar. > > Happy coding. ;-) > > Daniel Guermeur > > -- superco...@gmail.com > > Co-author of App Engine Java and GWT Development:http://bit.ly/hdTHyB > Blog:http://supercobrablogger.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:18 PM, nickmilon wrote: > > There is a lot of talk and flame wars going on "AWS vs GAE" topic, up > > to now all this talk was concentrated on technical and economic > > issues. > > News of Amazon throwing away the WikiLeaks website has raised new > > arguments on the cloud battlefront. > > So I want to raise here the hypothetical question what would be the > > fate of WikiLeaks if it was hosted on App Engine ? > > (For obvious reasons I do not expect a definite yes/no answer from > > Google's team, but may be I am wrong) > > > Happy coding:-) > > > Nick > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine" group. > > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
Philip +1 Still I am not sure that G would surrender so easily as Amazon did, there is a precedence: G vs Lieberman story: http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2008/05/dialogue-with-sen-lieberman-on.html when G stood to its values. By the way ... http://wikileaks.org/support.html doesn't work for me http://213.251.145.96/support.html is working (for the time been) On Dec 4, 3:15 pm, Philip wrote: > It's sad that Amazon does not support customers that exercise the > right of free speech. But I'd also assume that Google would not stand > up against the us government for offending the first amendment. :-( > > However, I will still donate to Wikileaks and I would suggest anyone > else to do the same:http://wikileaks.org/support.html > > "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be > limited without being lost." > Thomas Jefferson > > "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be > led, like sheep to the slaughter." > George Washington > > On Dec 4, 1:34 am, supercobra wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amazon and Google have been long-time partisans of freedom of speech. > > > However in this case, the pressure coming from the government must be > > incredible. Amazon is not the only victim of these intimidations. US > > government employees have been forbidden to visit Wikileaks sites and > > to discuss these matters on Facebook. At least one US university has > > been 'persuaded' to ask their students not to reference any Wikileaks > > documents in their research papers... (how is that for doing thorough > > research!). > > > Even crounties bend under US pressure. We have seen it to be the case > > with Spain & Germany which dropped their lawsuits, investigations and > > enforcement of arrest warrants for torture and kidnappings > > (renditions) after the US pressured them (source Wikileaks cables). > > > So I would assume that Google or any organization would probably comply as > > well. > > > To ensure free speech can not be prevented by taking down web sites, > > we need to create a totally distributed website hosting technology > > based on BitTorrent or something similar. > > > Happy coding. ;-) > > > Daniel Guermeur > > > -- superco...@gmail.com > > > Co-author of App Engine Java and GWT Development:http://bit.ly/hdTHyB > > Blog:http://supercobrablogger.blogspot.com/ > > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:18 PM, nickmilon wrote: > > > There is a lot of talk and flame wars going on "AWS vs GAE" topic, up > > > to now all this talk was concentrated on technical and economic > > > issues. > > > News of Amazon throwing away the WikiLeaks website has raised new > > > arguments on the cloud battlefront. > > > So I want to raise here the hypothetical question what would be the > > > fate of WikiLeaks if it was hosted on App Engine ? > > > (For obvious reasons I do not expect a definite yes/no answer from > > > Google's team, but may be I am wrong) > > > > Happy coding:-) > > > > Nick > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "Google App Engine" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
It seems the question is not hypothetical any more and a new government request is coming soon: "The Tunisian government, known for its restriction on freedom of expression, rapidly blocked the access to Tunileaks. They first blocked http://tunileaks.appspot.com/ ( without the https). One day later, they blocked Google App Engine’s IP address (209.85.229.141) in order to block Tunileaks under https, making appspot.com partially unavailable in the country . ( http://elitestv.com/pub/2010/12/tunisia-censorship-continues-as-wikileaks-cables-make-the-rounds ) On Dec 6, 10:10 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)" wrote: > I don't have anything to add to this discussion except that we're > always thinking of our users first. We recently published something > called the "Transparency Report" which shows which governments ask us > to take things down: > > http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests > > -- > Ikai Lan > Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine > Blogger: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com > Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine > Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:30 AM, Jeff Schwartz wrote: > > Freedom of speech is always a worthwhile subject and its defense is the > > ethical and moral obligation of every freedom loving individual but perhaps > > this is best discussed in a dedicated blog on the subject. > > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:11 AM, nickmilon wrote: > > >> Philip +1 > >> Still I am not sure that G would surrender so easily as Amazon did, > >> there is a precedence: G vs Lieberman story: > > >>http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2008/05/dialogue-with-sen-lieb... > >> when G stood to its values. > > >> By the way ... > >>http://wikileaks.org/support.html doesn't work for me > > >>http://213.251.145.96/support.html is working (for the time been) > > >> On Dec 4, 3:15 pm, Philip wrote: > >> > It's sad that Amazon does not support customers that exercise the > >> > right of free speech. But I'd also assume that Google would not stand > >> > up against the us government for offending the first amendment. :-( > > >> > However, I will still donate to Wikileaks and I would suggest anyone > >> > else to do the same:http://wikileaks.org/support.html > > >> > "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be > >> > limited without being lost." > >> > Thomas Jefferson > > >> > "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be > >> > led, like sheep to the slaughter." > >> > George Washington > > >> > On Dec 4, 1:34 am, supercobra wrote: > > >> > > Amazon and Google have been long-time partisans of freedom of speech. > > >> > > However in this case, the pressure coming from the government must be > >> > > incredible. Amazon is not the only victim of these intimidations. US > >> > > government employees have been forbidden to visit Wikileaks sites and > >> > > to discuss these matters on Facebook. At least one US university has > >> > > been 'persuaded' to ask their students not to reference any Wikileaks > >> > > documents in their research papers... (how is that for doing thorough > >> > > research!). > > >> > > Even crounties bend under US pressure. We have seen it to be the case > >> > > with Spain & Germany which dropped their lawsuits, investigations and > >> > > enforcement of arrest warrants for torture and kidnappings > >> > > (renditions) after the US pressured them (source Wikileaks cables). > > >> > > So I would assume that Google or any organization would probably > >> > > comply as well. > > >> > > To ensure free speech can not be prevented by taking down web sites, > >> > > we need to create a totally distributed website hosting technology > >> > > based on BitTorrent or something similar. > > >> > > Happy coding. ;-) > > >> > > Daniel Guermeur > > >> > > -- superco...@gmail.com > > >> > > Co-author of App Engine Java and GWT Development:http://bit.ly/hdTHyB > >> > > Blog:http://supercobrablogger.blogspot.com/ > > >> > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:18 PM, nickmilon wrote: > >> > > > There is a lot of talk and flame wars going on "AWS vs GAE" topic, > >> > > > up > >> > > > to now all this talk was concentrated on technical and economic > >> > > > issues. > >> > > > News of Amazon throwing away the WikiLeaks website has raised new > >> > > > arguments on the cloud battlefront. > >> > > > So I want to raise here the hypothetical question what would be the > >> > > > fate of WikiLeaks if it was hosted on App Engine ? > >> > > > (For obvious reasons I do not expect a definite yes/no answer from > >> > > > Google's team, but may be I am wrong) > > >> > > > Happy coding:-) > > >> > > > Nick > > >> > > > -- > >> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> > > > Groups "Google App Engine" group. > >> > > > To post to this group, send email to > >> > > > google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> > > >
[google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
Burry, Yes that was the original question. On Dec 8, 2:04 am, Barry Hunter wrote: > Blocking is nothing new. China of course has been doing it for a long > time - but they are by no means the only country. > > Surely in this thread you asking if Google would do anything themselves? > > On 7 December 2010 22:36, nickmilon wrote: > > > > > > > > > It seems the question is not hypothetical any more and a new > > government request is coming soon: > > > "The Tunisian government, known for its restriction on freedom of > > expression, rapidly blocked the access to Tunileaks. They first > > blockedhttp://tunileaks.appspot.com/( without the https). One day > > later, they blocked Google App Engine’s IP address (209.85.229.141) in > > order to block Tunileaks under https, making appspot.com partially > > unavailable in the country . > > (http://elitestv.com/pub/2010/12/tunisia-censorship-continues-as-wikil... > > ) > > > On Dec 6, 10:10 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)" > > wrote: > >> I don't have anything to add to this discussion except that we're > >> always thinking of our users first. We recently published something > >> called the "Transparency Report" which shows which governments ask us > >> to take things down: > > >>http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests > > >> -- > >> Ikai Lan > >> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine > >> Blogger: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com > >> Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine > >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine > > >> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:30 AM, Jeff Schwartz > >> wrote: > >> > Freedom of speech is always a worthwhile subject and its defense is the > >> > ethical and moral obligation of every freedom loving individual but > >> > perhaps > >> > this is best discussed in a dedicated blog on the subject. > > >> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:11 AM, nickmilon wrote: > > >> >> Philip +1 > >> >> Still I am not sure that G would surrender so easily as Amazon did, > >> >> there is a precedence: G vs Lieberman story: > > >> >>http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2008/05/dialogue-with-sen-lieb... > >> >> when G stood to its values. > > >> >> By the way ... > >> >>http://wikileaks.org/support.html doesn't work for me > > >> >>http://213.251.145.96/support.html is working (for the time been) > > >> >> On Dec 4, 3:15 pm, Philip wrote: > >> >> > It's sad that Amazon does not support customers that exercise the > >> >> > right of free speech. But I'd also assume that Google would not stand > >> >> > up against the us government for offending the first amendment. :-( > > >> >> > However, I will still donate to Wikileaks and I would suggest anyone > >> >> > else to do the same:http://wikileaks.org/support.html > > >> >> > "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be > >> >> > limited without being lost." > >> >> > Thomas Jefferson > > >> >> > "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be > >> >> > led, like sheep to the slaughter." > >> >> > George Washington > > >> >> > On Dec 4, 1:34 am, supercobra wrote: > > >> >> > > Amazon and Google have been long-time partisans of freedom of > >> >> > > speech. > > >> >> > > However in this case, the pressure coming from the government must > >> >> > > be > >> >> > > incredible. Amazon is not the only victim of these intimidations. US > >> >> > > government employees have been forbidden to visit Wikileaks sites > >> >> > > and > >> >> > > to discuss these matters on Facebook. At least one US university has > >> >> > > been 'persuaded' to ask their students not to reference any > >> >> > > Wikileaks > >> >> > > documents in their research papers... (how is that for doing > >> >> > > thorough > >> >> > > research!). > > >> >> > > Even crounties bend under US pressure. We have seen it to be the > >> >> > > case > >> >> > > with Spain & Germany which dropped their lawsuits, investigations > >> >> > > and > >> >> > > enforcement of arrest warrants for torture and kidnappings > >> >> > > (renditions) after the US pressured them (source Wikileaks cables). > > >> >> > > So I would assume that Google or any organization would probably > >> >> > > comply as well. > > >> >> > > To ensure free speech can not be prevented by taking down web sites, > >> >> > > we need to create a totally distributed website hosting technology > >> >> > > based on BitTorrent or something similar. > > >> >> > > Happy coding. ;-) > > >> >> > > Daniel Guermeur > > >> >> > > -- superco...@gmail.com > > >> >> > > Co-author of App Engine Java and GWT > >> >> > > Development:http://bit.ly/hdTHyB > >> >> > > Blog:http://supercobrablogger.blogspot.com/ > > >> >> > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:18 PM, nickmilon > >> >> > > wrote: > >> >> > > > There is a lot of talk and flame wars going on "AWS vs GAE" topic, > >> >> > > > up > >> >> > > > to now all this talk was concentrated on technical and economic > >> >> > > > issues. > >> >> > > > News of Amazon throwing away the WikiLeaks websi
[google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
Regarding the reverse proxy idea: Will the user's IP address get passed through so your app / Google's service sees it (and not the proxy server)? Will it work for SSL/https connections too? Will browsers bark that names don't match certificates or some other problem? Is that a good alternative to using a custom domain via Google domains? Thanks for the tip! I'm not worried about this now, but it's a good trick to know! On Dec 10, 2:34 am, Jeff Schnitzer wrote: > The solution to this sort of thing is really remarkably simple... set > up a reverse proxy on any of the zillions of other cloud providers. A > 256MB rackspace cloud instance costs $11/mo, runs apache/mod_proxy > just fine, and is 12ms to ghs.google.com. > > That IP address gets banned? Set up a new instance. Keep getting > banned? Automate the process. > > Jeff > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
Freedom of speech is always a worthwhile subject and its defense is the ethical and moral obligation of every freedom loving individual but perhaps this is best discussed in a dedicated blog on the subject. On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:11 AM, nickmilon wrote: > Philip +1 > Still I am not sure that G would surrender so easily as Amazon did, > there is a precedence: G vs Lieberman story: > > http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2008/05/dialogue-with-sen-lieberman-on.html > when G stood to its values. > > By the way ... > http://wikileaks.org/support.html doesn't work for me > > http://213.251.145.96/support.html is working (for the time been) > > > On Dec 4, 3:15 pm, Philip wrote: > > It's sad that Amazon does not support customers that exercise the > > right of free speech. But I'd also assume that Google would not stand > > up against the us government for offending the first amendment. :-( > > > > However, I will still donate to Wikileaks and I would suggest anyone > > else to do the same:http://wikileaks.org/support.html > > > > "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be > > limited without being lost." > > Thomas Jefferson > > > > "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be > > led, like sheep to the slaughter." > > George Washington > > > > On Dec 4, 1:34 am, supercobra wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amazon and Google have been long-time partisans of freedom of speech. > > > > > However in this case, the pressure coming from the government must be > > > incredible. Amazon is not the only victim of these intimidations. US > > > government employees have been forbidden to visit Wikileaks sites and > > > to discuss these matters on Facebook. At least one US university has > > > been 'persuaded' to ask their students not to reference any Wikileaks > > > documents in their research papers... (how is that for doing thorough > > > research!). > > > > > Even crounties bend under US pressure. We have seen it to be the case > > > with Spain & Germany which dropped their lawsuits, investigations and > > > enforcement of arrest warrants for torture and kidnappings > > > (renditions) after the US pressured them (source Wikileaks cables). > > > > > So I would assume that Google or any organization would probably comply > as well. > > > > > To ensure free speech can not be prevented by taking down web sites, > > > we need to create a totally distributed website hosting technology > > > based on BitTorrent or something similar. > > > > > Happy coding. ;-) > > > > > Daniel Guermeur > > > > > -- superco...@gmail.com > > > > > Co-author of App Engine Java and GWT Development:http://bit.ly/hdTHyB > > > Blog:http://supercobrablogger.blogspot.com/ > > > > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:18 PM, nickmilon wrote: > > > > There is a lot of talk and flame wars going on "AWS vs GAE" topic, up > > > > to now all this talk was concentrated on technical and economic > > > > issues. > > > > News of Amazon throwing away the WikiLeaks website has raised new > > > > arguments on the cloud battlefront. > > > > So I want to raise here the hypothetical question what would be the > > > > fate of WikiLeaks if it was hosted on App Engine ? > > > > (For obvious reasons I do not expect a definite yes/no answer from > > > > Google's team, but may be I am wrong) > > > > > > Happy coding:-) > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Google App Engine" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to > google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- *Jeff Schwartz* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
I don't have anything to add to this discussion except that we're always thinking of our users first. We recently published something called the "Transparency Report" which shows which governments ask us to take things down: http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests -- Ikai Lan Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine Blogger: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:30 AM, Jeff Schwartz wrote: > Freedom of speech is always a worthwhile subject and its defense is the > ethical and moral obligation of every freedom loving individual but perhaps > this is best discussed in a dedicated blog on the subject. > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:11 AM, nickmilon wrote: >> >> Philip +1 >> Still I am not sure that G would surrender so easily as Amazon did, >> there is a precedence: G vs Lieberman story: >> >> http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2008/05/dialogue-with-sen-lieberman-on.html >> when G stood to its values. >> >> By the way ... >> http://wikileaks.org/support.html doesn't work for me >> >> http://213.251.145.96/support.html is working (for the time been) >> >> >> On Dec 4, 3:15 pm, Philip wrote: >> > It's sad that Amazon does not support customers that exercise the >> > right of free speech. But I'd also assume that Google would not stand >> > up against the us government for offending the first amendment. :-( >> > >> > However, I will still donate to Wikileaks and I would suggest anyone >> > else to do the same:http://wikileaks.org/support.html >> > >> > "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be >> > limited without being lost." >> > Thomas Jefferson >> > >> > "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be >> > led, like sheep to the slaughter." >> > George Washington >> > >> > On Dec 4, 1:34 am, supercobra wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Amazon and Google have been long-time partisans of freedom of speech. >> > >> > > However in this case, the pressure coming from the government must be >> > > incredible. Amazon is not the only victim of these intimidations. US >> > > government employees have been forbidden to visit Wikileaks sites and >> > > to discuss these matters on Facebook. At least one US university has >> > > been 'persuaded' to ask their students not to reference any Wikileaks >> > > documents in their research papers... (how is that for doing thorough >> > > research!). >> > >> > > Even crounties bend under US pressure. We have seen it to be the case >> > > with Spain & Germany which dropped their lawsuits, investigations and >> > > enforcement of arrest warrants for torture and kidnappings >> > > (renditions) after the US pressured them (source Wikileaks cables). >> > >> > > So I would assume that Google or any organization would probably >> > > comply as well. >> > >> > > To ensure free speech can not be prevented by taking down web sites, >> > > we need to create a totally distributed website hosting technology >> > > based on BitTorrent or something similar. >> > >> > > Happy coding. ;-) >> > >> > > Daniel Guermeur >> > >> > > -- superco...@gmail.com >> > >> > > Co-author of App Engine Java and GWT Development:http://bit.ly/hdTHyB >> > > Blog:http://supercobrablogger.blogspot.com/ >> > >> > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:18 PM, nickmilon wrote: >> > > > There is a lot of talk and flame wars going on "AWS vs GAE" topic, >> > > > up >> > > > to now all this talk was concentrated on technical and economic >> > > > issues. >> > > > News of Amazon throwing away the WikiLeaks website has raised new >> > > > arguments on the cloud battlefront. >> > > > So I want to raise here the hypothetical question what would be the >> > > > fate of WikiLeaks if it was hosted on App Engine ? >> > > > (For obvious reasons I do not expect a definite yes/no answer from >> > > > Google's team, but may be I am wrong) >> > >> > > > Happy coding:-) >> > >> > > > Nick >> > >> > > > -- >> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > > > Groups "Google App Engine" group. >> > > > To post to this group, send email to >> > > > google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > > > For more options, visit this group >> > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Google App Engine" group. >> To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Jeff Schwartz > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine"
Re: [google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
Blocking is nothing new. China of course has been doing it for a long time - but they are by no means the only country. Surely in this thread you asking if Google would do anything themselves? On 7 December 2010 22:36, nickmilon wrote: > It seems the question is not hypothetical any more and a new > government request is coming soon: > > "The Tunisian government, known for its restriction on freedom of > expression, rapidly blocked the access to Tunileaks. They first > blocked http://tunileaks.appspot.com/ ( without the https). One day > later, they blocked Google App Engine’s IP address (209.85.229.141) in > order to block Tunileaks under https, making appspot.com partially > unavailable in the country . > ( > http://elitestv.com/pub/2010/12/tunisia-censorship-continues-as-wikileaks-cables-make-the-rounds > ) > > > > On Dec 6, 10:10 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)" > wrote: >> I don't have anything to add to this discussion except that we're >> always thinking of our users first. We recently published something >> called the "Transparency Report" which shows which governments ask us >> to take things down: >> >> http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests >> >> -- >> Ikai Lan >> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine >> Blogger: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com >> Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:30 AM, Jeff Schwartz >> wrote: >> > Freedom of speech is always a worthwhile subject and its defense is the >> > ethical and moral obligation of every freedom loving individual but perhaps >> > this is best discussed in a dedicated blog on the subject. >> >> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:11 AM, nickmilon wrote: >> >> >> Philip +1 >> >> Still I am not sure that G would surrender so easily as Amazon did, >> >> there is a precedence: G vs Lieberman story: >> >> >>http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2008/05/dialogue-with-sen-lieb... >> >> when G stood to its values. >> >> >> By the way ... >> >>http://wikileaks.org/support.html doesn't work for me >> >> >>http://213.251.145.96/support.html is working (for the time been) >> >> >> On Dec 4, 3:15 pm, Philip wrote: >> >> > It's sad that Amazon does not support customers that exercise the >> >> > right of free speech. But I'd also assume that Google would not stand >> >> > up against the us government for offending the first amendment. :-( >> >> >> > However, I will still donate to Wikileaks and I would suggest anyone >> >> > else to do the same:http://wikileaks.org/support.html >> >> >> > "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be >> >> > limited without being lost." >> >> > Thomas Jefferson >> >> >> > "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be >> >> > led, like sheep to the slaughter." >> >> > George Washington >> >> >> > On Dec 4, 1:34 am, supercobra wrote: >> >> >> > > Amazon and Google have been long-time partisans of freedom of speech. >> >> >> > > However in this case, the pressure coming from the government must be >> >> > > incredible. Amazon is not the only victim of these intimidations. US >> >> > > government employees have been forbidden to visit Wikileaks sites and >> >> > > to discuss these matters on Facebook. At least one US university has >> >> > > been 'persuaded' to ask their students not to reference any Wikileaks >> >> > > documents in their research papers... (how is that for doing thorough >> >> > > research!). >> >> >> > > Even crounties bend under US pressure. We have seen it to be the case >> >> > > with Spain & Germany which dropped their lawsuits, investigations and >> >> > > enforcement of arrest warrants for torture and kidnappings >> >> > > (renditions) after the US pressured them (source Wikileaks cables). >> >> >> > > So I would assume that Google or any organization would probably >> >> > > comply as well. >> >> >> > > To ensure free speech can not be prevented by taking down web sites, >> >> > > we need to create a totally distributed website hosting technology >> >> > > based on BitTorrent or something similar. >> >> >> > > Happy coding. ;-) >> >> >> > > Daniel Guermeur >> >> >> > > -- superco...@gmail.com >> >> >> > > Co-author of App Engine Java and GWT Development:http://bit.ly/hdTHyB >> >> > > Blog:http://supercobrablogger.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:18 PM, nickmilon wrote: >> >> > > > There is a lot of talk and flame wars going on "AWS vs GAE" topic, >> >> > > > up >> >> > > > to now all this talk was concentrated on technical and economic >> >> > > > issues. >> >> > > > News of Amazon throwing away the WikiLeaks website has raised new >> >> > > > arguments on the cloud battlefront. >> >> > > > So I want to raise here the hypothetical question what would be the >> >> > > > fate of WikiLeaks if it was hosted on App Engine ? >> >> > > > (For obvious reasons I do not expect a definite yes/no answer from >> >> > > > Google's tea
Re: [google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
Not hypothetical at all. People using GAE in China have been fighting for their rights almost since day 1 of GAE, first yourdomain.com is blocked, now appspot.com has fallen... Will On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:36 AM, nickmilon wrote: > It seems the question is not hypothetical any more and a new > government request is coming soon: > > "The Tunisian government, known for its restriction on freedom of > expression, rapidly blocked the access to Tunileaks. They first > blocked http://tunileaks.appspot.com/ ( without the https). One day > later, they blocked Google App Engine’s IP address (209.85.229.141) in > order to block Tunileaks under https, making appspot.com partially > unavailable in the country . > ( > http://elitestv.com/pub/2010/12/tunisia-censorship-continues-as-wikileaks-cables-make-the-rounds > ) > > > > On Dec 6, 10:10 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)" > > > > wrote: > > I don't have anything to add to this discussion except that we're > > always thinking of our users first. We recently published something > > called the "Transparency Report" which shows which governments ask us > > to take things down: > > > > http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests > > > > -- > > Ikai Lan > > Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine > > Blogger: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com > > Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:30 AM, Jeff Schwartz > wrote: > > > Freedom of speech is always a worthwhile subject and its defense is the > > > ethical and moral obligation of every freedom loving individual but > perhaps > > > this is best discussed in a dedicated blog on the subject. > > > > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:11 AM, nickmilon wrote: > > > > >> Philip +1 > > >> Still I am not sure that G would surrender so easily as Amazon did, > > >> there is a precedence: G vs Lieberman story: > > > > >>http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2008/05/dialogue-with-sen-lieb. > .. > > >> when G stood to its values. > > > > >> By the way ... > > >>http://wikileaks.org/support.html doesn't work for me > > > > >>http://213.251.145.96/support.html is working (for the time been) > > > > >> On Dec 4, 3:15 pm, Philip wrote: > > >> > It's sad that Amazon does not support customers that exercise the > > >> > right of free speech. But I'd also assume that Google would not > stand > > >> > up against the us government for offending the first amendment. :-( > > > > >> > However, I will still donate to Wikileaks and I would suggest anyone > > >> > else to do the same:http://wikileaks.org/support.html > > > > >> > "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be > > >> > limited without being lost." > > >> > Thomas Jefferson > > > > >> > "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may > be > > >> > led, like sheep to the slaughter." > > >> > George Washington > > > > >> > On Dec 4, 1:34 am, supercobra wrote: > > > > >> > > Amazon and Google have been long-time partisans of freedom of > speech. > > > > >> > > However in this case, the pressure coming from the government must > be > > >> > > incredible. Amazon is not the only victim of these intimidations. > US > > >> > > government employees have been forbidden to visit Wikileaks sites > and > > >> > > to discuss these matters on Facebook. At least one US university > has > > >> > > been 'persuaded' to ask their students not to reference any > Wikileaks > > >> > > documents in their research papers... (how is that for doing > thorough > > >> > > research!). > > > > >> > > Even crounties bend under US pressure. We have seen it to be the > case > > >> > > with Spain & Germany which dropped their lawsuits, investigations > and > > >> > > enforcement of arrest warrants for torture and kidnappings > > >> > > (renditions) after the US pressured them (source Wikileaks > cables). > > > > >> > > So I would assume that Google or any organization would probably > > >> > > comply as well. > > > > >> > > To ensure free speech can not be prevented by taking down web > sites, > > >> > > we need to create a totally distributed website hosting technology > > >> > > based on BitTorrent or something similar. > > > > >> > > Happy coding. ;-) > > > > >> > > Daniel Guermeur > > > > >> > > -- superco...@gmail.com > > > > >> > > Co-author of App Engine Java and GWT Development: > http://bit.ly/hdTHyB > > >> > > Blog:http://supercobrablogger.blogspot.com/ > > > > >> > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:18 PM, nickmilon > wrote: > > >> > > > There is a lot of talk and flame wars going on "AWS vs GAE" > topic, > > >> > > > up > > >> > > > to now all this talk was concentrated on technical and economic > > >> > > > issues. > > >> > > > News of Amazon throwing away the WikiLeaks website has raised > new > > >> > > > arguments on the cloud battlefront. > > >> > > > So I want to raise here the hypothetical question what would be > the > > >> > > > fate of WikiLeak
Re: [google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
The solution to this sort of thing is really remarkably simple... set up a reverse proxy on any of the zillions of other cloud providers. A 256MB rackspace cloud instance costs $11/mo, runs apache/mod_proxy just fine, and is 12ms to ghs.google.com. That IP address gets banned? Set up a new instance. Keep getting banned? Automate the process. Jeff On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Will wrote: > Not hypothetical at all. People using GAE in China have been fighting for > their rights almost since day 1 of GAE, first yourdomain.com is blocked, now > appspot.com has fallen... > > Will > > On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:36 AM, nickmilon wrote: >> >> It seems the question is not hypothetical any more and a new >> government request is coming soon: >> >> "The Tunisian government, known for its restriction on freedom of >> expression, rapidly blocked the access to Tunileaks. They first >> blocked http://tunileaks.appspot.com/ ( without the https). One day >> later, they blocked Google App Engine’s IP address (209.85.229.141) in >> order to block Tunileaks under https, making appspot.com partially >> unavailable in the country . >> ( >> http://elitestv.com/pub/2010/12/tunisia-censorship-continues-as-wikileaks-cables-make-the-rounds >> ) >> >> >> >> On Dec 6, 10:10 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)" >> wrote: >> > I don't have anything to add to this discussion except that we're >> > always thinking of our users first. We recently published something >> > called the "Transparency Report" which shows which governments ask us >> > to take things down: >> > >> > http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests >> > >> > -- >> > Ikai Lan >> > Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine >> > Blogger: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com >> > Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine >> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:30 AM, Jeff Schwartz >> > wrote: >> > > Freedom of speech is always a worthwhile subject and its defense is >> > > the >> > > ethical and moral obligation of every freedom loving individual but >> > > perhaps >> > > this is best discussed in a dedicated blog on the subject. >> > >> > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:11 AM, nickmilon wrote: >> > >> > >> Philip +1 >> > >> Still I am not sure that G would surrender so easily as Amazon did, >> > >> there is a precedence: G vs Lieberman story: >> > >> > >> > >> >>http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2008/05/dialogue-with-sen-lieb... >> > >> when G stood to its values. >> > >> > >> By the way ... >> > >>http://wikileaks.org/support.html doesn't work for me >> > >> > >>http://213.251.145.96/support.html is working (for the time been) >> > >> > >> On Dec 4, 3:15 pm, Philip wrote: >> > >> > It's sad that Amazon does not support customers that exercise the >> > >> > right of free speech. But I'd also assume that Google would not >> > >> > stand >> > >> > up against the us government for offending the first amendment. :-( >> > >> > >> > However, I will still donate to Wikileaks and I would suggest >> > >> > anyone >> > >> > else to do the same:http://wikileaks.org/support.html >> > >> > >> > "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot >> > >> > be >> > >> > limited without being lost." >> > >> > Thomas Jefferson >> > >> > >> > "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may >> > >> > be >> > >> > led, like sheep to the slaughter." >> > >> > George Washington >> > >> > >> > On Dec 4, 1:34 am, supercobra wrote: >> > >> > >> > > Amazon and Google have been long-time partisans of freedom of >> > >> > > speech. >> > >> > >> > > However in this case, the pressure coming from the government >> > >> > > must be >> > >> > > incredible. Amazon is not the only victim of these intimidations. >> > >> > > US >> > >> > > government employees have been forbidden to visit Wikileaks sites >> > >> > > and >> > >> > > to discuss these matters on Facebook. At least one US university >> > >> > > has >> > >> > > been 'persuaded' to ask their students not to reference any >> > >> > > Wikileaks >> > >> > > documents in their research papers... (how is that for doing >> > >> > > thorough >> > >> > > research!). >> > >> > >> > > Even crounties bend under US pressure. We have seen it to be the >> > >> > > case >> > >> > > with Spain & Germany which dropped their lawsuits, investigations >> > >> > > and >> > >> > > enforcement of arrest warrants for torture and kidnappings >> > >> > > (renditions) after the US pressured them (source Wikileaks >> > >> > > cables). >> > >> > >> > > So I would assume that Google or any organization would probably >> > >> > > comply as well. >> > >> > >> > > To ensure free speech can not be prevented by taking down web >> > >> > > sites, >> > >> > > we need to create a totally distributed website hosting >> > >> > > technology >> > >> > > based on BitTorrent or something similar. >> > >> > >> > > Happy coding. ;-) >> > >> > >> > > Daniel Guermeur >>
Re: [google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
Jeff, can you point me to a more detailed explanation of reverse proxy and its setup? Thanks, Will On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Jeff Schnitzer wrote: > The solution to this sort of thing is really remarkably simple... set > up a reverse proxy on any of the zillions of other cloud providers. A > 256MB rackspace cloud instance costs $11/mo, runs apache/mod_proxy > just fine, and is 12ms to ghs.google.com. > > That IP address gets banned? Set up a new instance. Keep getting > banned? Automate the process. > > Jeff > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Will wrote: > > Not hypothetical at all. People using GAE in China have been fighting for > > their rights almost since day 1 of GAE, first yourdomain.com is blocked, > now > > appspot.com has fallen... > > > > Will > > > > On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:36 AM, nickmilon wrote: > >> > >> It seems the question is not hypothetical any more and a new > >> government request is coming soon: > >> > >> "The Tunisian government, known for its restriction on freedom of > >> expression, rapidly blocked the access to Tunileaks. They first > >> blocked http://tunileaks.appspot.com/ ( without the https). One day > >> later, they blocked Google App Engine’s IP address (209.85.229.141) in > >> order to block Tunileaks under https, making appspot.com partially > >> unavailable in the country . > >> ( > >> > http://elitestv.com/pub/2010/12/tunisia-censorship-continues-as-wikileaks-cables-make-the-rounds > >> ) > >> > >> > >> > >> On Dec 6, 10:10 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)" > >> > > > >> wrote: > >> > I don't have anything to add to this discussion except that we're > >> > always thinking of our users first. We recently published something > >> > called the "Transparency Report" which shows which governments ask us > >> > to take things down: > >> > > >> > http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Ikai Lan > >> > Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine > >> > Blogger: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com > >> > Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine > >> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:30 AM, Jeff Schwartz < > jefftschwa...@gmail.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > Freedom of speech is always a worthwhile subject and its defense is > >> > > the > >> > > ethical and moral obligation of every freedom loving individual but > >> > > perhaps > >> > > this is best discussed in a dedicated blog on the subject. > >> > > >> > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:11 AM, nickmilon > wrote: > >> > > >> > >> Philip +1 > >> > >> Still I am not sure that G would surrender so easily as Amazon did, > >> > >> there is a precedence: G vs Lieberman story: > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2008/05/dialogue-with-sen-lieb... > >> > >> when G stood to its values. > >> > > >> > >> By the way ... > >> > >>http://wikileaks.org/support.html doesn't work for me > >> > > >> > >>http://213.251.145.96/support.html is working (for the time been) > >> > > >> > >> On Dec 4, 3:15 pm, Philip wrote: > >> > >> > It's sad that Amazon does not support customers that exercise the > >> > >> > right of free speech. But I'd also assume that Google would not > >> > >> > stand > >> > >> > up against the us government for offending the first amendment. > :-( > >> > > >> > >> > However, I will still donate to Wikileaks and I would suggest > >> > >> > anyone > >> > >> > else to do the same:http://wikileaks.org/support.html > >> > > >> > >> > "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot > >> > >> > be > >> > >> > limited without being lost." > >> > >> > Thomas Jefferson > >> > > >> > >> > "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we > may > >> > >> > be > >> > >> > led, like sheep to the slaughter." > >> > >> > George Washington > >> > > >> > >> > On Dec 4, 1:34 am, supercobra wrote: > >> > > >> > >> > > Amazon and Google have been long-time partisans of freedom of > >> > >> > > speech. > >> > > >> > >> > > However in this case, the pressure coming from the government > >> > >> > > must be > >> > >> > > incredible. Amazon is not the only victim of these > intimidations. > >> > >> > > US > >> > >> > > government employees have been forbidden to visit Wikileaks > sites > >> > >> > > and > >> > >> > > to discuss these matters on Facebook. At least one US > university > >> > >> > > has > >> > >> > > been 'persuaded' to ask their students not to reference any > >> > >> > > Wikileaks > >> > >> > > documents in their research papers... (how is that for doing > >> > >> > > thorough > >> > >> > > research!). > >> > > >> > >> > > Even crounties bend under US pressure. We have seen it to be > the > >> > >> > > case > >> > >> > > with Spain & Germany which dropped their lawsuits, > investigations > >> > >> > > and > >> > >> > > enforcement of arrest warrants for torture and kidnappings > >> > >> > > (renditions) after the US pressured the
Re: [google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Will wrote: > Jeff, can you point me to a more detailed explanation of reverse proxy and > its setup? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=reverse+proxy On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 8:25 AM, timwhunt wrote: > Regarding the reverse proxy idea: > > Will the user's IP address get passed through so your app / Google's > service sees it (and not the proxy server)? Google's service will see the proxy's address. However you can pass the originating IP as an additional header and process it as you like. > Will it work for SSL/https connections too? Will browsers bark that > names don't match certificates or some other problem? You can use SSL for this but it's a bit more complicated. The SSL connection will be established between the client and the proxy using your certificate, then a different connection is established between the proxy and GAE. Depending on your threat model you may wish to use SSL for the backend connection, which will use the google cert to appspot.com. It's worth noting that this is essentially what the SSL feature does at Google Apps for Business, except that Google runs the proxy, and the leg between the proxy and GAE is on Google's secure network. Without SNI, SSL requires a dedicated IP address. > Is that a good alternative to using a custom domain via Google > domains? It isn't an either/or issue. If you need to work around the fact that AppEngine uses a pool of shared IP addresses (SSL is an example; geocode ratelimits are another), use proxies - either outbound (traditional proxy) or inbound (reverse proxy). Pick a facility that is logically close to GAE (ping from rackspace cloud is 12ms) and users will never notice the difference. Jeff -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: Amazon AWS vs Google App Engine
http://lmgtfy.com is great, I had not seen that before. Will come in handy. On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 16:12, Jeff Schnitzer wrote: > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Will wrote: >> Jeff, can you point me to a more detailed explanation of reverse proxy and >> its setup? > > http://lmgtfy.com/?q=reverse+proxy > > On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 8:25 AM, timwhunt wrote: >> Regarding the reverse proxy idea: >> >> Will the user's IP address get passed through so your app / Google's >> service sees it (and not the proxy server)? > > Google's service will see the proxy's address. However you can pass > the originating IP as an additional header and process it as you like. > >> Will it work for SSL/https connections too? Will browsers bark that >> names don't match certificates or some other problem? > > You can use SSL for this but it's a bit more complicated. The SSL > connection will be established between the client and the proxy using > your certificate, then a different connection is established between > the proxy and GAE. Depending on your threat model you may wish to use > SSL for the backend connection, which will use the google cert to > appspot.com. > > It's worth noting that this is essentially what the SSL feature does > at Google Apps for Business, except that Google runs the proxy, and > the leg between the proxy and GAE is on Google's secure network. > Without SNI, SSL requires a dedicated IP address. > >> Is that a good alternative to using a custom domain via Google >> domains? > > It isn't an either/or issue. If you need to work around the fact that > AppEngine uses a pool of shared IP addresses (SSL is an example; > geocode ratelimits are another), use proxies - either outbound > (traditional proxy) or inbound (reverse proxy). Pick a facility that > is logically close to GAE (ping from rackspace cloud is 12ms) and > users will never notice the difference. > > Jeff > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
