RE: [google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
If you are loading extra libraries that can slow your load time. Also look at storing variables and other start up information in memcache rather than datastore. I knocked a lot of time off of my startup by trimming the fat and putting all of my start up variables in a single entity rather than having to grab several entities at startup. From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Hoffman Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:24 PM To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com Subject: [google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running I have a site, with max idle set to 1, and Min Pending Latency set to 500ms, and I find performance is great. It takes 3-4 secs normally to start the full app up, but through smart caching (I can start a cold instance and serve many pages directly from memcache without starting the full stack in less than 200ms.) I suggest you spend some time having a look at your app startup performance, and profiling your app, rather than spending your time posting the multitude of odd complaints all over the place. Tim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/akZjr0DRILYJ. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
On Sep 30, 7:14 pm, Brandon Wirtz drak...@digerat.com wrote: If you are loading extra libraries that can slow your load time. Also look at storing variables and other start up information in memcache rather than datastore. I knocked a lot of time off of my startup by trimming the fat and putting all of my start up variables in a single entity rather than having to grab several entities at startup. This is gae bug, not a app-optimization problem. From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Hoffman Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:24 PM To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com Subject: [google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running I have a site, with max idle set to 1, and Min Pending Latency set to 500ms, and I find performance is great. It takes 3-4 secs normally to start the full app up, but through smart caching (I can start a cold instance and serve many pages directly from memcache without starting the full stack in less than 200ms.) I suggest you spend some time having a look at your app startup performance, and profiling your app, rather than spending your time posting the multitude of odd complaints all over the place. Tim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/akZjr0DRILYJ. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
On Sep 30, 7:25 am, Tapir tapir@gmail.com wrote: and with Max Idle Instances set as 3. There MUST be a bug in gae instance scheduler. If it is not a bug, it MUST be a bad implementation. After some researches, I find If there is only one instance is running, the scheduler always avoids using it to handle a new coming request, even if the idle instance is idling. Instead, the scheduler always tries to open a new instance to handle the new coming request. As a result, the visitor must wait 15s to load the page. This problem is intolerable specially for websites with very small traffic. Almost very visit will wait for 15 seconds. A spelling error here. It should be Almost every visit How a good scheduler should do? 1. always use the current idle instance if it is available. 2. at the same time, create a new instance for potential new concurrent requests. It is just that simple. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
I have a site, with max idle set to 1, and Min Pending Latency set to 500ms, and I find performance is great. It takes 3-4 secs normally to start the full app up, but through smart caching (I can start a cold instance and serve many pages directly from memcache without starting the full stack in less than 200ms.) I suggest you spend some time having a look at your app startup performance, and profiling your app, rather than spending your time posting the multitude of odd complaints all over the place. Tim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/akZjr0DRILYJ. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
with with Max Idle Instances set as 1 instead 3. The user experience is better now. ^_^ On Sep 30, 7:25 am, Tapir tapir@gmail.com wrote: and with Max Idle Instances set as 3. There MUST be a bug in gae instance scheduler. If it is not a bug, it MUST be a bad implementation. After some researches, I find If there is only one instance is running, the scheduler always avoids using it to handle a new coming request, even if the idle instance is idling. Instead, the scheduler always tries to open a new instance to handle the new coming request. As a result, the visitor must wait 15s to load the page. This problem is intolerable specially for websites with very small traffic. Almost very visit will wait for 15 seconds. How a good scheduler should do? 1. always use the current idle instance if it is available. 2. at the same time, create a new instance for potential new concurrent requests. It is just that simple. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
Unfortunately in all your posts, you provide little background. So we have contextless complaints, its difficult to work out what you have done, and I won't assume you have done things like optimisation. Also are you handling warmup requests ? T -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/DpQQFvngoKMJ. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
On Sep 29, 9:00 pm, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunately in all your posts, you provide little background. So we have contextless complaints, its difficult to work out what you have done, and I won't assume you have done things like optimisation. Also are you handling warmup requests ? This is really not an app optimization problem. And about the app optimization, I use struts2 framework, which makes reducing the startup time less than 10 seconds is almost impossible. And yes I haven't use memcache heavily, but which is almost helpless for reducing the startup time. T -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
Yes I use the warmup requests feature, but I think it will make the problem worse. On Sep 30, 9:00 am, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunately in all your posts, you provide little background. So we have contextless complaints, its difficult to work out what you have done, and I won't assume you have done things like optimisation. Also are you handling warmup requests ? T -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
Tim, Can you elaborate on what you mean by smart caching ? You start serving pages before your full stack has started? On Sep 29, 7:23 pm, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote: I have a site, with max idle set to 1, and Min Pending Latency set to 500ms, and I find performance is great. It takes 3-4 secs normally to start the full app up, but through smart caching (I can start a cold instance and serve many pages directly from memcache without starting the full stack in less than 200ms.) I suggest you spend some time having a look at your app startup performance, and profiling your app, rather than spending your time posting the multitude of odd complaints all over the place. Tim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
Maybe you shouldn't use struts, this is a serious suggestion, and should be considered seriously. If you have a lightly used small app using a heavy framework then you have probably made a bad design choice. If you have long startup times then warmup requests do help enormously, and in fact are about the only way you are going to improve the use experience. Also if you have such large startup times, then you should probably have more than one idle instance. I would also examine you software stack and see if you can at least serve the home page/landing page directly from memcache without starting struts up. The have on that same page some images that will be loaded after the html is loaded, and serve these from the full struts stack. This will mean the front page is loaded fast, and the images may well trigger additional instances to be loaded, if they don't load immediately it may not be the end of the world. T -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/Vve2VmeQfR8J. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
Think ? Actually run tests and measure. Too much thinking and not enough actual testing won't solve your problems. I can imperically say warmup requests help on all of my applications. T -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/g2GYszRWdWAJ. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
On Sep 30, 9:41 am, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe you shouldn't use struts, this is a serious suggestion, and should be considered seriously. If you have a lightly used small app using a heavy framework then you have probably made a bad design choice. Could you recommend one? My website traffic is small, but my app is not small. If you have long startup times then warmup requests do help enormously, and in fact are about the only way you are going to improve the use experience. In fact, as the gae docs says, warmup requests is not always positive. warmup requests will make the problem I mentioned in the first comment worse. Also if you have such large startup times, then you should probably have more than one idle instance. As I mentioned above, set Max Idle Instances with 1 instead 3 will make page loading faster. (Surely, I think this is a bug of gae) I would also examine you software stack and see if you can at least serve the home page/landing page directly from memcache without starting struts up. The have on that same page some images that will be loaded after the html is loaded, and serve these from the full struts stack. This will mean the front page is loaded fast, and the images may well trigger additional instances to be loaded, if they don't load immediately it may not be the end of the world. I don't think loading images needs instances. T -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
On Sep 30, 9:41 am, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe you shouldn't use struts, this is a serious suggestion, and should be considered seriously. If you have a lightly used small app using a heavy framework then you have probably made a bad design choice. I am really some regretting on using java instead of python. I feels google doesn't put enough energy to solve some common problems in java apps, such as slow startup and high memory using. If you have long startup times then warmup requests do help enormously, and in fact are about the only way you are going to improve the use experience. Also if you have such large startup times, then you should probably have more than one idle instance. I would also examine you software stack and see if you can at least serve the home page/landing page directly from memcache without starting struts up. The have on that same page some images that will be loaded after the html is loaded, and serve these from the full struts stack. This will mean the front page is loaded fast, and the images may well trigger additional instances to be loaded, if they don't load immediately it may not be the end of the world. T -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Tapir tapir@gmail.com wrote: I am really some regretting on using java instead of python. I feels google doesn't put enough energy to solve some common problems in java apps, such as slow startup and high memory using. Honestly it's really hard to tell what you're asking from this thread. If your app takes a long time to start up and spends most of its time idle (thus gets shut down), consider paying for the always on option. Also, if you haven't yet, put threadsafetrue/threadsafe in your appengine-web.xml. A single instance should be able to serve many concurrent requests. Jeff -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
I think I have described it clearly. There is an idle instance running, but gae scheduler will still create a new instance and use the new instance to handle a new coming request. This is not a right implementation. The right implementation is use the idle instance to handle the new coming request and create a new instance for potential other coming requests. On Sep 29, 11:54 pm, Jeff Schnitzer j...@infohazard.org wrote: On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Tapir tapir@gmail.com wrote: I am really some regretting on using java instead of python. I feels google doesn't put enough energy to solve some common problems in java apps, such as slow startup and high memory using. Honestly it's really hard to tell what you're asking from this thread. If your app takes a long time to start up and spends most of its time idle (thus gets shut down), consider paying for the always on option. My app don't need 3 always-on paid instances. As I have mentioned above, I have set the Max Idle Instances to 1 instead of the old 3. Now the user experience is very happy. Ironic? one Max Idle Instances is better than 3 Max Idle Instances. ^_^ Also, if you haven't yet, put threadsafetrue/threadsafe in your appengine-web.xml. A single instance should be able to serve many concurrent requests. yes, I set it true, but this problem still exists. Jeff -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: It is almost intolerable for user experience with 1 idle instances running
I admit the title is misleading. It should be The user experience is intolerable for with Max Idle Instances set as 3. For when I started this thread, I hadn't found the real reason for my app slow page loading problem. On Sep 30, 11:54 am, Jeff Schnitzer j...@infohazard.org wrote: On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Tapir tapir@gmail.com wrote: I am really some regretting on using java instead of python. I feels google doesn't put enough energy to solve some common problems in java apps, such as slow startup and high memory using. Honestly it's really hard to tell what you're asking from this thread. If your app takes a long time to start up and spends most of its time idle (thus gets shut down), consider paying for the always on option. Also, if you haven't yet, put threadsafetrue/threadsafe in your appengine-web.xml. A single instance should be able to serve many concurrent requests. Jeff -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
