[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
I have to agree with the others. GAE is a fine (I would say it is the ideal) prototyping platform--development is easy, and deploying is trivial. However as an app becomes increasingly valuable to its creator, you will feel more and more pressure to move to traditional hosting. I inherited the project I am currently in charge of. It is an iPhone app backend, doing around 100 queries/sec, supporting users in the six digits. I will tell you flat out: if it were possible to move off GAE, we would! The platform is okay. However as an app becomes more valuable, deployment and development are not your biggest concern. Availability and disaster recovery are. I guess I have moved through the five stages of grief. I too submitted a patch in the early days to have it...ignored. Not rejected, not approved, but just ignored. Now I am indifferent to GAE's strengths and weaknesses. It is simply a matter of money, of value, and of risks. At this very moment, we are undergoing a significant model refactor to improve performance. We are having to bend over backwards to simulate what should be trivial--backups. But hey, you can delete your app now. But only permanently. That's wonderful! On Oct 16, 5:59 am, Richard richar...@gmail.com wrote: Clasically, make 2 columns: Advantages - Disadvantages Or 3 columns. yeah I've got my own pitch written up, but something from Google too would help. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
Hi, I would look into trying to convince your client of cloud computing first and GAE second. Once you convince them to use cloud computing for their hosting I think they only have 3 options Google, Yahoo and Microsoft. Cheers, Scott On Oct 16, 9:45 am, Jason Smith j...@proven-corporation.com wrote: I have to agree with the others. GAE is a fine (I would say it is the ideal) prototyping platform--development is easy, and deploying is trivial. However as an app becomes increasingly valuable to its creator, you will feel more and more pressure to move to traditional hosting. I inherited the project I am currently in charge of. It is an iPhone app backend, doing around 100 queries/sec, supporting users in the six digits. I will tell you flat out: if it were possible to move off GAE, we would! The platform is okay. However as an app becomes more valuable, deployment and development are not your biggest concern. Availability and disaster recovery are. I guess I have moved through the five stages of grief. I too submitted a patch in the early days to have it...ignored. Not rejected, not approved, but just ignored. Now I am indifferent to GAE's strengths and weaknesses. It is simply a matter of money, of value, and of risks. At this very moment, we are undergoing a significant model refactor to improve performance. We are having to bend over backwards to simulate what should be trivial--backups. But hey, you can delete your app now. But only permanently. That's wonderful! On Oct 16, 5:59 am, Richard richar...@gmail.com wrote: Clasically, make 2 columns: Advantages - Disadvantages Or 3 columns. yeah I've got my own pitch written up, but something from Google too would help. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
Well there is obviously Amazon EC2 service, which is perhaps the most popular cloud computing platform. Will. 2009/10/16 Adligo sc...@adligo.com Hi, I would look into trying to convince your client of cloud computing first and GAE second. Once you convince them to use cloud computing for their hosting I think they only have 3 options Google, Yahoo and Microsoft. Cheers, Scott On Oct 16, 9:45 am, Jason Smith j...@proven-corporation.com wrote: I have to agree with the others. GAE is a fine (I would say it is the ideal) prototyping platform--development is easy, and deploying is trivial. However as an app becomes increasingly valuable to its creator, you will feel more and more pressure to move to traditional hosting. I inherited the project I am currently in charge of. It is an iPhone app backend, doing around 100 queries/sec, supporting users in the six digits. I will tell you flat out: if it were possible to move off GAE, we would! The platform is okay. However as an app becomes more valuable, deployment and development are not your biggest concern. Availability and disaster recovery are. I guess I have moved through the five stages of grief. I too submitted a patch in the early days to have it...ignored. Not rejected, not approved, but just ignored. Now I am indifferent to GAE's strengths and weaknesses. It is simply a matter of money, of value, and of risks. At this very moment, we are undergoing a significant model refactor to improve performance. We are having to bend over backwards to simulate what should be trivial--backups. But hey, you can delete your app now. But only permanently. That's wonderful! On Oct 16, 5:59 am, Richard richar...@gmail.com wrote: Clasically, make 2 columns: Advantages - Disadvantages Or 3 columns. yeah I've got my own pitch written up, but something from Google too would help. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
Hi Rich, I think there is a place for GAE but it might not work for every project, especially in this phase. Read and share my assessment in the article I point to below: Google App Engine: Is it ready from Prime Time? http://www.gae123.com/articles/gaerd/ Best Regards On Oct 13, 9:52 pm, Richard richar...@gmail.com wrote: hello, the App Engine webpage has lots of good information for developers like us, but what about for our clients? My client is skeptical about deploying on GAE, so I'd like to show him some propaganda about uptime, costs, etc. Is there anything available, ideally a short video? cheers, Richard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
The short answer. Don't. I convinced a client to use GAE and we both regret it. The App keeps going down at inopportune moments, the scheduled maintenance outages are in prime time. For the small number of users (about 600) we get far too many complaints about time out errors. They are random and there is nothing I can do to fix them. I don't even see timeouts in the two slow admin pages, they only happen to users. The largest issue I have right now is Risk. Things keep breaking, you can not fix them yourselves and there is nobody to call. You post it here and hope they can fix. Because our app has a small user base GAE is essentially free. But I've spent enough time and heart ache with GAE that I should have used EC2, it would have been cheaper. I've got several clients now with more than a year without problems on EC2. Well, without problems caused by EC2 :-) There are other hosting solutions that have worked out the kinks, GAE has not. It's not ready for prime time. Rob. On Oct 14, 12:52 am, Richard richar...@gmail.com wrote: hello, the App Engine webpage has lots of good information for developers like us, but what about for our clients? My client is skeptical about deploying on GAE, so I'd like to show him some propaganda about uptime, costs, etc. Is there anything available, ideally a short video? cheers, Richard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
GAE and EC2 are two completely different pairs of shoes.
GAE is a cool and superior concept - but I also suffered badly from
many bugs especially in conjunction with Google Apps, AuthSub and
GData API.
It's always problematic to provide a framework that involves people
from different departments.
Many bugs that I discovered is in nobody's responsibility and that
makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable. I've posted many bugreports
that are still in new state and I guess no one ever tried to
reproduce them using my provided code snippets (otherwise they would
have been switched to accepted or any other state than new).
It would be a good idea if Google would create an internal team
combining all the provided Google services into a set of test apps
running on app engine.
Other than that I like App engine ;-)
On 15 Okt., 15:54, Alkis Evlogimenos ('Αλκης Ευλογημένος)
evlogime...@gmail.com wrote:
Are you doing any kind of retries on timeouts?
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Rob Osborne robert.osbo...@gmail.comwrote:
The short answer. Don't.
I convinced a client to use GAE and we both regret it. The App keeps
going down at inopportune moments, the scheduled maintenance outages
are in prime time. For the small number of users (about 600) we get
far too many complaints about time out errors. They are random and
there is nothing I can do to fix them. I don't even see timeouts in
the two slow admin pages, they only happen to users.
The largest issue I have right now is Risk. Things keep breaking, you
can not fix them yourselves and there is nobody to call. You post it
here and hope they can fix.
Because our app has a small user base GAE is essentially free. But
I've spent enough time and heart ache with GAE that I should have used
EC2, it would have been cheaper. I've got several clients now with
more than a year without problems on EC2. Well, without problems
caused by EC2 :-)
There are other hosting solutions that have worked out the kinks, GAE
has not. It's not ready for prime time.
Rob.
On Oct 14, 12:52 am, Richard richar...@gmail.com wrote:
hello,
the App Engine webpage has lots of good information for developers
like us, but what about for our clients?
My client is skeptical about deploying on GAE, so I'd like to show him
some propaganda about uptime, costs, etc. Is there anything available,
ideally a short video?
cheers,
Richard
--
Alkis
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[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
2009/10/15 dflorey daniel.flo...@gmail.com: GAE and EC2 are two completely different pairs of shoes. GAE is a cool and superior concept - but I also suffered badly from many bugs especially in conjunction with Google Apps, AuthSub and GData API. It's always problematic to provide a framework that involves people from different departments. Many bugs that I discovered is in nobody's responsibility and that makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable. I've posted many bugreports that are still in new state and I guess no one ever tried to reproduce them using my provided code snippets (otherwise they would have been switched to accepted or any other state than new). It would be a good idea if Google would create an internal team combining all the provided Google services into a set of test apps running on app engine. Other than that I like App engine ;-) I still gather that AppEngine is nothing but an Erlang type system in another language with not as many capabilities and concurrence capabilities. They really should integrate Erlang into the system. I am not big on the Prolog type syntax, but you cannot beat it for this type of work. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
On Oct 14, 12:52 am, Richard richar...@gmail.com wrote: hello, the App Engine webpage has lots of good information for developers like us, but what about for our clients? My client is skeptical about deploying on GAE, so I'd like to show him some propaganda about uptime, costs, etc. Is there anything available, ideally a short video? cheers, Richard Clasically, make 2 columns: Advantages - Disadvantages Or 3 columns. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
Clasically, make 2 columns: Advantages - Disadvantages Or 3 columns. yeah I've got my own pitch written up, but something from Google too would help. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
wow - I didn't know people had such negative experiences with GAE. There would be more than one developer at Google working on this, even if only one is active in this forum. My web apps are a different use case - generally business related for a single customer. And my clients don't want their apps installed on my own server in case I disappear. And I don't want to deal with lots of servers. Also many of these clients use Windows... So GAE has worked well so far. I am using the web2py framework for my apps, which means I can move them to another server if something happens to GAE. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
You'd have to sell them on trust Google. GAE is not a tried and true platform and is a beta platform. MY apps have had 100% uptime thus far but I'm not typical and none of my apps are 100% GAE. -Original Message- From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:google-appeng...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:53 PM To: Google App Engine Subject: [google-appengine] how to convince client hello, the App Engine webpage has lots of good information for developers like us, but what about for our clients? My client is skeptical about deploying on GAE, so I'd like to show him some propaganda about uptime, costs, etc. Is there anything available, ideally a short video? cheers, Richard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: how to convince client
My apps have also had 100% uptime and I think it's fantastic service. Definitely the Google brand name helps, but my clients have not heard of GAE so I need to explain why Google is doing this for free - what's the catch. Have you come across an overview of GAE that would make sense to non- techies? Richard On Oct 14, 7:51 pm, Brandon N. Wirtz drak...@digerat.com wrote: You'd have to sell them on trust Google. GAE is not a tried and true platform and is a beta platform. MY apps have had 100% uptime thus far but I'm not typical and none of my apps are 100% GAE. -Original Message- From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:google-appeng...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:53 PM To: Google App Engine Subject: [google-appengine] how to convince client hello, the App Engine webpage has lots of good information for developers like us, but what about for our clients? My client is skeptical about deploying on GAE, so I'd like to show him some propaganda about uptime, costs, etc. Is there anything available, ideally a short video? cheers, Richard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
