[google-appengine] Re: how to reindex a property that once set to indexed = false?

2011-09-05 Thread Patrick Poon
+1 bazillion

On Sep 5, 8:13 pm, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> 2011/9/6 saintthor 
>
> > hash is enough for me. my site is not an e-bank.
>
> This should not matter. If your password database is compromised, the risk
> is not yours, it's your users'. Many users reuse passwords between sites,
> and if your site provides an easy avenue to determining what those passwords
> are, your users are vulnerable elsewhere, on better secured sites.
>
> There is no good reason not to use a proper salting and password stretching
> scheme; "my site is not important enough" is not an excuse.
>
> -Nick Johnson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 9月5日, 下午3时58分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 4:42 PM, saintthor  wrote:
> > > > the password was hashed.
>
> > > > i think to query name and password together may take less db ops if
> > > > password is wrong. isn't it?
>
> > > The number of operations is the same; fewer entities would be returned.
> > In
> > > return, though, you're incurring an extra index entry for every record.
> > You
> > > _should_ be salting your passwords (and preferably using RCrypt, SCrypt
> > or
> > > PBKDF2), though, in which case you can't do an index lookup for the
> > password
> > > anyway.
>
> > > -Nick Johnson
>
> > > > On 9月5日, 下午1时43分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> > > > > Also, you don't need to index the password field - just fetch the
> > user,
> > > > then
> > > > > check the password. I sincerely hope you're not storing the password
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > clear, though!
>
> > > > > -Nick
>
> > > > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Simon Knott 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
>
> > > > > > You need to retrieve all objects that were written in this period
> > out
> > > > of
> > > > > > the datastore and re-put them - single-property indexes are only
> > > > written on
> > > > > > putting the entity.  If you can't work out which entities were
> > written
> > > > in
> > > > > > this period, then you will need to retrieve all entities and re-put
> > > > them.
>
> > > > > > It should be noted that query indexes, which use these
> > single-property
> > > > > > indexes in the background, are re-generated on deployment.
>
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Simon
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > > Groups
> > > > > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > > > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/VYJDjjca21MJ.
>
> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > > > .
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
>
> > > > --
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>
> > > --
> > > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
>
> > --
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>
> --
> Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: how to reindex a property that once set to indexed = false?

2011-09-05 Thread Nick Johnson
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Pol  wrote:

> Talking abou this, what do you think of using bcrypt.hashpw(password,
> bcrypt.gensalt())? I've read in a few places it was supposed to be a
> good solution, but I discovered this morning that the AppEngine
> version, having to be pure Python, changes the default log_round for
> salt generation from 1024 to 1, otherwise it takes way too long.
>
> In practice, what does this mean for security?
>

bcrypt and scrypt are both good options. scrypt or PBKDF2 are probably
better choices on App Engine since the underlying hash functions are
implemented in C.


>
> BTW: Since this is so important, you guys should be a Google approved
> password hashing function as part of GAE :)
>

There's a feature request for it in the issue tracker. :)


>
> On Sep 5, 5:13 pm, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> > 2011/9/6 saintthor 
> >
> > > hash is enough for me. my site is not an e-bank.
> >
> > This should not matter. If your password database is compromised, the
> risk
> > is not yours, it's your users'. Many users reuse passwords between sites,
> > and if your site provides an easy avenue to determining what those
> passwords
> > are, your users are vulnerable elsewhere, on better secured sites.
> >
> > There is no good reason not to use a proper salting and password
> stretching
> > scheme; "my site is not important enough" is not an excuse.
> >
> > -Nick Johnson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 9月5日, 下午3时58分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 4:42 PM, saintthor 
> wrote:
> > > > > the password was hashed.
> >
> > > > > i think to query name and password together may take less db ops if
> > > > > password is wrong. isn't it?
> >
> > > > The number of operations is the same; fewer entities would be
> returned.
> > > In
> > > > return, though, you're incurring an extra index entry for every
> record.
> > > You
> > > > _should_ be salting your passwords (and preferably using RCrypt,
> SCrypt
> > > or
> > > > PBKDF2), though, in which case you can't do an index lookup for the
> > > password
> > > > anyway.
> >
> > > > -Nick Johnson
> >
> > > > > On 9月5日, 下午1时43分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> > > > > > Also, you don't need to index the password field - just fetch the
> > > user,
> > > > > then
> > > > > > check the password. I sincerely hope you're not storing the
> password
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > clear, though!
> >
> > > > > > -Nick
> >
> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Simon Knott <
> knott.si...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi,
> >
> > > > > > > You need to retrieve all objects that were written in this
> period
> > > out
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the datastore and re-put them - single-property indexes are
> only
> > > > > written on
> > > > > > > putting the entity.  If you can't work out which entities were
> > > written
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > this period, then you will need to retrieve all entities and
> re-put
> > > > > them.
> >
> > > > > > > It should be noted that query indexes, which use these
> > > single-property
> > > > > > > indexes in the background, are re-generated on deployment.
> >
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > Simon
> >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google
> > > > > Groups
> > > > > > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > > > > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/VYJDjjca21MJ
> .
> >
> > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > > > > .
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
> >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > > .
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> >
> > > > --
> > > > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
> >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> >
> > --
> > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
>
> --
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[google-appengine] Re: how to reindex a property that once set to indexed = false?

2011-09-05 Thread Pol
Talking abou this, what do you think of using bcrypt.hashpw(password,
bcrypt.gensalt())? I've read in a few places it was supposed to be a
good solution, but I discovered this morning that the AppEngine
version, having to be pure Python, changes the default log_round for
salt generation from 1024 to 1, otherwise it takes way too long.

In practice, what does this mean for security?

BTW: Since this is so important, you guys should be a Google approved
password hashing function as part of GAE :)

On Sep 5, 5:13 pm, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> 2011/9/6 saintthor 
>
> > hash is enough for me. my site is not an e-bank.
>
> This should not matter. If your password database is compromised, the risk
> is not yours, it's your users'. Many users reuse passwords between sites,
> and if your site provides an easy avenue to determining what those passwords
> are, your users are vulnerable elsewhere, on better secured sites.
>
> There is no good reason not to use a proper salting and password stretching
> scheme; "my site is not important enough" is not an excuse.
>
> -Nick Johnson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 9月5日, 下午3时58分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 4:42 PM, saintthor  wrote:
> > > > the password was hashed.
>
> > > > i think to query name and password together may take less db ops if
> > > > password is wrong. isn't it?
>
> > > The number of operations is the same; fewer entities would be returned.
> > In
> > > return, though, you're incurring an extra index entry for every record.
> > You
> > > _should_ be salting your passwords (and preferably using RCrypt, SCrypt
> > or
> > > PBKDF2), though, in which case you can't do an index lookup for the
> > password
> > > anyway.
>
> > > -Nick Johnson
>
> > > > On 9月5日, 下午1时43分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> > > > > Also, you don't need to index the password field - just fetch the
> > user,
> > > > then
> > > > > check the password. I sincerely hope you're not storing the password
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > clear, though!
>
> > > > > -Nick
>
> > > > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Simon Knott 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
>
> > > > > > You need to retrieve all objects that were written in this period
> > out
> > > > of
> > > > > > the datastore and re-put them - single-property indexes are only
> > > > written on
> > > > > > putting the entity.  If you can't work out which entities were
> > written
> > > > in
> > > > > > this period, then you will need to retrieve all entities and re-put
> > > > them.
>
> > > > > > It should be noted that query indexes, which use these
> > single-property
> > > > > > indexes in the background, are re-generated on deployment.
>
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Simon
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > > Groups
> > > > > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > > > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/VYJDjjca21MJ.
>
> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > > > .
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
>
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > .
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> > > --
> > > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>
> --
> Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: how to reindex a property that once set to indexed = false?

2011-09-05 Thread Nick Johnson
2011/9/6 saintthor 

> hash is enough for me. my site is not an e-bank.
>

This should not matter. If your password database is compromised, the risk
is not yours, it's your users'. Many users reuse passwords between sites,
and if your site provides an easy avenue to determining what those passwords
are, your users are vulnerable elsewhere, on better secured sites.

There is no good reason not to use a proper salting and password stretching
scheme; "my site is not important enough" is not an excuse.

-Nick Johnson


> On 9月5日, 下午3时58分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 4:42 PM, saintthor  wrote:
> > > the password was hashed.
> >
> > > i think to query name and password together may take less db ops if
> > > password is wrong. isn't it?
> >
> > The number of operations is the same; fewer entities would be returned.
> In
> > return, though, you're incurring an extra index entry for every record.
> You
> > _should_ be salting your passwords (and preferably using RCrypt, SCrypt
> or
> > PBKDF2), though, in which case you can't do an index lookup for the
> password
> > anyway.
> >
> > -Nick Johnson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 9月5日, 下午1时43分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> > > > Also, you don't need to index the password field - just fetch the
> user,
> > > then
> > > > check the password. I sincerely hope you're not storing the password
> in
> > > the
> > > > clear, though!
> >
> > > > -Nick
> >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Simon Knott 
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> >
> > > > > You need to retrieve all objects that were written in this period
> out
> > > of
> > > > > the datastore and re-put them - single-property indexes are only
> > > written on
> > > > > putting the entity.  If you can't work out which entities were
> written
> > > in
> > > > > this period, then you will need to retrieve all entities and re-put
> > > them.
> >
> > > > > It should be noted that query indexes, which use these
> single-property
> > > > > indexes in the background, are re-generated on deployment.
> >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Simon
> >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups
> > > > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/VYJDjjca21MJ.
> >
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > > .
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >
> > > > --
> > > > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
> >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> .
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > > For more options, visit this group at
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> >
> > --
> > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
>
> --
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>


-- 
Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine

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[google-appengine] Re: how to reindex a property that once set to indexed = false?

2011-09-05 Thread saintthor
hash is enough for me. my site is not an e-bank.

On 9月5日, 下午3时58分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 4:42 PM, saintthor  wrote:
> > the password was hashed.
>
> > i think to query name and password together may take less db ops if
> > password is wrong. isn't it?
>
> The number of operations is the same; fewer entities would be returned. In
> return, though, you're incurring an extra index entry for every record. You
> _should_ be salting your passwords (and preferably using RCrypt, SCrypt or
> PBKDF2), though, in which case you can't do an index lookup for the password
> anyway.
>
> -Nick Johnson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 9月5日, 下午1时43分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> > > Also, you don't need to index the password field - just fetch the user,
> > then
> > > check the password. I sincerely hope you're not storing the password in
> > the
> > > clear, though!
>
> > > -Nick
>
> > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Simon Knott 
> > wrote:
> > > > Hi,
>
> > > > You need to retrieve all objects that were written in this period out
> > of
> > > > the datastore and re-put them - single-property indexes are only
> > written on
> > > > putting the entity.  If you can't work out which entities were written
> > in
> > > > this period, then you will need to retrieve all entities and re-put
> > them.
>
> > > > It should be noted that query indexes, which use these single-property
> > > > indexes in the background, are re-generated on deployment.
>
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Simon
>
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/VYJDjjca21MJ.
>
> > > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > .
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> > > --
> > > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google App Engine" group.
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>
> --
> Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: how to reindex a property that once set to indexed = false?

2011-09-05 Thread Nick Johnson
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 4:42 PM, saintthor  wrote:

> the password was hashed.
>
> i think to query name and password together may take less db ops if
> password is wrong. isn't it?
>

The number of operations is the same; fewer entities would be returned. In
return, though, you're incurring an extra index entry for every record. You
_should_ be salting your passwords (and preferably using RCrypt, SCrypt or
PBKDF2), though, in which case you can't do an index lookup for the password
anyway.

-Nick Johnson


>
> On 9月5日, 下午1时43分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> > Also, you don't need to index the password field - just fetch the user,
> then
> > check the password. I sincerely hope you're not storing the password in
> the
> > clear, though!
> >
> > -Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Simon Knott 
> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> >
> > > You need to retrieve all objects that were written in this period out
> of
> > > the datastore and re-put them - single-property indexes are only
> written on
> > > putting the entity.  If you can't work out which entities were written
> in
> > > this period, then you will need to retrieve all entities and re-put
> them.
> >
> > > It should be noted that query indexes, which use these single-property
> > > indexes in the background, are re-generated on deployment.
> >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Simon
> >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/VYJDjjca21MJ.
> >
> > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> .
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >
> > --
> > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
>
> --
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[google-appengine] Re: how to reindex a property that once set to indexed = false?

2011-09-05 Thread Kenneth
Under the old model it would have been a wash. In fact in the original app 
engine it would have been worse since it would have required a composite 
index. Under the new model querying on the user and password should be 
cheaper, but you really won't notice it unless you're getting a lot of bad 
passwords.

the password was hashed. 

And salted?  :-) 

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[google-appengine] Re: how to reindex a property that once set to indexed = false?

2011-09-04 Thread saintthor
the password was hashed.

i think to query name and password together may take less db ops if
password is wrong. isn't it?

On 9月5日, 下午1时43分, Nick Johnson  wrote:
> Also, you don't need to index the password field - just fetch the user, then
> check the password. I sincerely hope you're not storing the password in the
> clear, though!
>
> -Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Simon Knott  wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > You need to retrieve all objects that were written in this period out of
> > the datastore and re-put them - single-property indexes are only written on
> > putting the entity.  If you can't work out which entities were written in
> > this period, then you will need to retrieve all entities and re-put them.
>
> > It should be noted that query indexes, which use these single-property
> > indexes in the background, are re-generated on deployment.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Simon
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/VYJDjjca21MJ.
>
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>
> --
> Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: how to reindex a property that once set to indexed = false?

2011-09-04 Thread Nick Johnson
Also, you don't need to index the password field - just fetch the user, then
check the password. I sincerely hope you're not storing the password in the
clear, though!

-Nick

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Simon Knott  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> You need to retrieve all objects that were written in this period out of
> the datastore and re-put them - single-property indexes are only written on
> putting the entity.  If you can't work out which entities were written in
> this period, then you will need to retrieve all entities and re-put them.
>
> It should be noted that query indexes, which use these single-property
> indexes in the background, are re-generated on deployment.
>
> Cheers,
> Simon
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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[google-appengine] Re: how to reindex a property that once set to indexed = false?

2011-09-04 Thread saintthor
thank you.

On 9月5日, 下午1时02分, Simon Knott  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> You need to retrieve all objects that were written in this period out of the
> datastore and re-put them - single-property indexes are only written on
> putting the entity.  If you can't work out which entities were written in
> this period, then you will need to retrieve all entities and re-put them.  
>
> It should be noted that query indexes, which use these single-property
> indexes in the background, are re-generated on deployment.
>
> Cheers,
> Simon

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[google-appengine] Re: how to reindex a property that once set to indexed = false?

2011-09-04 Thread Simon Knott
Hi,

You need to retrieve all objects that were written in this period out of the 
datastore and re-put them - single-property indexes are only written on 
putting the entity.  If you can't work out which entities were written in 
this period, then you will need to retrieve all entities and re-put them.  

It should be noted that query indexes, which use these single-property 
indexes in the background, are re-generated on deployment.

Cheers,
Simon

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